English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

21:02

BWV 873’s fugue is also impressive, but requires actual work to do well, while the 851 prelude just requires repetition.

That’s a bit unkind of me.

Here’s the Richter, starting at like 3:43

►

C# minor vs D minor: your choice. :)

The C#m fugue just plain dances, IMHO.

I feel like the leprechauns have caught me.

That’s at like QN=120. I think Gould does QN=160 there.

George Pompidou

mmmm.

with such a conservative general attitude towards music and culture that Bach grew up and studied in, I'm constantly baffled by how he managed to compose such brilliant works, all within the frames everyone imposed

tchrist

Here’s somebody else, at about 4:50:

►

See what I mean about being trapped by leprechauns?

George Pompidou

@tchrist well Gould was a mentalist

Matt Эллен

OK. Questions askers are asking weird questions thick and fast today! I'll leave them in everyone else's capable hands :D good night!

tchrist

@Matt Night!!!

I wonder why the kid is wearing glasses to play.

George Pompidou

21:08

hey, Brendel wore glasses

tchrist

> BBC Russia named Alexander Kobrin the "Van Cliburn of today", putting him in the front row of musicians of his generation.

George Pompidou

that's a heavy comparison.

Van Cliburn won a soviet piano contest as an American.

tchrist

’Tis.

My hair stands on end by the last page of the 873 fugue.

There’s this figure in the bass that comes roaring up out of nowhere, and then it is positively manic.

I currently have goosebumps.

No shit.

George Pompidou

poor Glenn Gould. I bet playing Bach like he did is what gave him strokes.

tchrist

Here are all the 873s.

@GeorgePompidou Meth, I thought.

George Pompidou

21:12

@tchrist currently listening to all the wohltemperierte klaviers by Gould from my subsonic server

in sequence.

well, skipped the first one cause that's fisher price shit

tchrist

pokey(tchrist)% cd "Music/Genres/Serious/Johan Sebastian Bach/Keyboard/Well-Tempered-Clavier/BWV/BWV873-WTC2-04 in C-sharp minor"
pokey(tchrist)% ls
Andras Schiff--Prelude and fugue in C-sharp minor, BWV 873.ogg                        Jeno Jano--Prelude and fugue no. 4 in C-sharp Minor, BWV 873.ogg
Edwin_Fischer--Prelude and Fugue in C-sharp minor, BWV 873.flac                       Kenneth Gilbert--Praeludium & Fuga (a 3 voci) cis-moll BWV 873.ogg
Friedrich Gulda--Prelude no.4 in C-sharp minor, BWV 873.ogg                           Ralph Kirkpatrick--Prelude 4 BWV 873.ogg

I have the individual tracks hardlinked into the right BWV directory, as well as having per-artist directories, etc.

George Pompidou

I just have them by CD

daisy.what.cx:4040/coverArt.view?size=300&id=9292

I guess nobody can see that.

say, myself, I've been studying the Italienisches Konzert lately.

that's a whole lot of fun, and not terribly difficult. until I get to the third movement, I suppose.

it's tough for me on top of that because from ages 3-17 my parents decided I will only play the Romantics

tchrist

@GeorgePompidou I know someone who would marry you if you perfected it.

macbook# ls -d claviers/*/*/

claviers/clavichord/Arnold Dolmetsch/
claviers/clavichord/Ralph Kirkpatrick/
claviers/harpsichord/Bob van Asperen/
claviers/harpsichord/Christiane Jaccottet/
claviers/harpsichord/Kenneth Gilbert/
claviers/piano/Andras Schiff/
claviers/piano/Edwin Fischer/
claviers/piano/Friedrich Gulda/
claviers/piano/Glenn Gould/
claviers/piano/Jeno Jando/
claviers/piano/Vladimir Ashkenazy/

That’s under Music/Genres/Serious/Johan Sebastian Bach/Keyboard/Well-Tempered-Clavier. It is all very highly crosslinked.

George Pompidou

wow, good collection on that.

I can't organize my music by composer, since I let iTunes do it.

I organize it by pianist/conductor, but I can search by composer.

tchrist

With crosslinking, you can organize it howsoever you please.

I have an artists/ directory, too.

George Pompidou

21:20

oh, I missed the crosslinking bit

I may wind up doing that on my subsonic server

right now I have to ls a pianist and hope there's Bach inside.

tchrist

pokey(tchrist)% ls -1 artists
Andras Schiff
Arnold Dolmetsch
Bob van Asperen
Christiane Jaccottet
Edwin Fischer
Friedrich Gulda
Glenn Gould
Jeno Jando
Kenneth Gilbert
Ralph Kirkpatrick
Vladimir Ashkenazy

George Pompidou

[george@daisy:Music]$ ls -1 Glenn\ Gould/ | grep Bach
Bach Recital_ Italian Concerto, Partita, Toccata
Bach_ The Goldberg Variations (1955 Version)
Bach_ The Two and Three Part Inventions
Bach_ The Well-Tempered Clavier

tchrist

pokey(tchrist)% ls strings/Emerson_Quartet_Bach_Fugues_\(from_the_Well-Tempered_Clavier\)/
01-Book_I_-_Fuga_I_-_a_4_voci_(BWV_846).ogg              08-Book_I_-_Fuga_XX_-_a_4_voci_(BWV_865).ogg             15-Book_II_-_Fuga_IX_-_a_4_voci_(BWV_878).ogg
02-Book_I_-_Fuga_V_-_a_4_voci_(BWV_850).ogg              09-Book_I_-_Fuga_XXIII_-_a_4_voci_(BWV_868).ogg          16-Book_II_-_Fuga_XVI_-_a_4_voci_(BWV_885).ogg
03-Book_I_-_Fuga_XII_-_a_4_voci_(BWV_857).ogg            10-Book_I_-_Fuga_XXIV_-_a_4_voci_(BWV_869).ogg           17-Book_II_-_Fuga_XVII_-_a_4_voci_(BWV_886).ogg

Those are . . . different.

George Pompidou

here's the flagship of my piano collection

[george@daisy:Music]$ ls Arthur\ Rubinstein/
The Original Jacket Collection_ Rubinstein Plays Chopin
The Rubinstein Collection Volume 10_ Beethoven, Brahms
The Rubinstein Collection Volume 11_ Beethoven, Franck, Szymanowski etc_
The Rubinstein Collection Volume 12_ Beethoven and Schubert
The Rubinstein Collection Volume 13_ Grieg Concerto and Piano Pieces
The Rubinstein Collection Volume 14_ Beethoven
The Rubinstein Collection Volume 15_ Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky
The Rubinstein Collection Volume 16_ Chopin Preludes, etc

tee hee.

tchrist

You sort queerly.

George Pompidou

21:23

pff, default

here's why your crosslinking idea would be very good for me

[george@daisy:Music]$ ls | grep Chicago
Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Chicago Symphony Orchestra_Claudio Abbado
Chicago Symphony Orchestra_Fritz Reiner
Chicago Symphony Orchestra_James Levine
Chicago Symphony Orchestra_Leonard Bernstein
Chicago Symphony Orchestra_Sir Georg Solti
Emil Gilels_Chicago Symphony Orchestra_Fritz Reiner
Itzhak Perlman_Chicago Symphony Orchestra_Daniel Barenboim
Jacqueline du Pré_Chicago Symphony Orchestra_Daniel Barenboim
Maxim Vengerov_Chicago Symphony Orchestra_Daniel Barenboim

tchrist

pokey(tchrist)% rename 's/\b(\d_)/0$1/' *

George Pompidou

orchestra shit pisses me off because they wind up in different directories per each conductor

tchrist

That would fix your ordering issues.

But of course you would need my rename script.

George Pompidou

I can't rename anything because it's rsynced to my iTunes on my macbook.

^.^

tchrist

Bug.

Muy buggy.

Muggy.

George Pompidou

21:25

best way to keep my subsonic updated.

unless you can think of something else.

tchrist

I don’t know what most of that means.

George Pompidou

not to mention, everything of a particular orchestra isn't all grouped alphabetically because I put soloists before the name of the orchestra.

as you can see.

iTunes is the best music manager and also the worst thing on earth

Andrew Leach

@GeorgePompidou I hate iTunes with a passion.

Intuitive it is not.

George Pompidou

ugh. ls | grep Philharmoni is the worst-looking abomination

I'm not even going to show that

tchrist

@AndrewLeach I refuse to let it know where my music is. It goes bonkers on it.

George Pompidou

21:28

half Philharmoniker and half Philharmonic Orchestra, which I can't do anything about

if only the British would stop naming their orchestras in not German

>: [

tchrist

@GeorgePompidou You control the vertical. You control the horizontal.

George Pompidou

it's a bummer that they have three good orchestras too.

tchrist

Our capitol dome is all but done being restored to gold leaf on the entire outside of the cupola. I wonder how much THAT cost!

Andrew Leach

@GeorgePompidou There are more than three good orchestras in Britain.

George Pompidou

@tchrist less than building the Aon (Amoco) building in Chicago entirely out of Italian marble, then having it fall off and kill people, then having to redo it with granite

@AndrewLeach not as far as the rest of the world is concerned

I'm talking competitive with the great orchestras.

of which there are only 5-10

Andrew Leach

21:30

@GeorgePompidou Pah. What do they know.

tchrist

But I will tell you this: there is nothing like alpenglow first hitting that gold at daybreak. It is truly stunning.

George Pompidou

hehe.

tchrist

@GeorgePompidou So you mean more than good orchestras.

George Pompidou

yeah, that's what I meant.

per-capita that's impressive. the US has about five on a good day I'd say.

four before Solti showed up.

and three if you ignore the existence of Ohio

which I frequently do

Andrew Leach

So which are your three good British orchestras?

George Pompidou

21:34

well, LPO was graced by his Soltiness

Andrew Leach

Well yes. But CBSO has the Rattle.

George Pompidou

RPO by many, my favorite being the latest phase with Dutoit

and yes, of course anywhere Simon Rattle goes

didn't he go to Berlin though?

he left you guys behind man

tchrist

Andrew Leach

@GeorgePompidou Oops. S and D are next to each other.

tchrist

What I want to know is how Britain managed to move Iberia.

Not to mention turning it upside down.

George Pompidou

21:39

is about to mute several small communes

(on my way home)

(I drive a bulldozer)

@tchrist they put all their prisoners to work on that, didn't they?

17

Q: I don't like potatoes or ice-cream

I am struggling to find the correct grammar for a fairly simple sentence. "I don't like potatoes or ice-cream". This appears to be incorrect because it is a contraction of the two clauses "I don't like potatoes or I don't like ice-cream", which has a different (if any) meaning. You can see ...

why is this upvote central

it's such a… pointless lecture rather than a question

casts his vote

nothing happens

wanders off into lonely shadows

Andrew Leach

@GeorgePompidou Whaddya mean, nothing happens? Either your downvote was counted, or your closevote was. There's only a select few with an instant reaction (mods + gold tag-badge holders).

Time to work on your tag-badges, perhaps.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach I cannot pluck up the stamina to answer 27 more SWRs.

Andrew Leach

22:02

No-one is forced to answer any question, or even comment. :-)

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Funny how neither of us is known for his subtextual virtuosity, yet I know exactly whereof you speak. :(

Andrew Leach

We have four SWR gold badge-holders (I just checked), who can presumably close these with just their own vote.

tchrist

They can.

Jasper Loy

Why do I see two versions of the same website within a short time interval? Is the website being updated to a newer version but the process is yet to be completed?

tchrist

I know because I’ve wielded the big stick over on SO, where I possess two.

@JasperLoy Did you recently get new spectacles?

Jasper Loy

22:07

@tchrist Nope, and by short time interval I mean a few days, and then a few days, and then a few days. It is happening on amazon.com. Sometimes I see the black bar on top, sometimes I don't.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist What I mean to say is, if you don't have the stamina, that's fine. Even mods don't have 24-hr/day stamina to clear up after people.

Jasper Loy

@AndrewLeach Did they send you any gift for being a mod?

Andrew Leach

Speaking of which, it's time to retire.

@JasperLoy I got a pack of business cards.

That sounds slightly dismissive. It wasn't meant to be.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach I would never, ever think that of you.

Jasper Loy

@AndrewLeach OK. But business cards? That is funny.

George Pompidou

22:09

@AndrewLeach the downvote got counted, but no greater effect. I have to get more rep to close vote, which I'm working on.

Jasper Loy

@AndrewLeach Sounds like me in another sense.

George Pompidou

wow, this chat is a struggle on my raspberry pi.

tchrist

The 24h cleanup thing is very wearying, probably even unhealthy.

George Pompidou

big surprise a computer the size of a credit card can

Andrew Leach

I wasn't actually expecting anything.

George Pompidou

22:09

t handle ajax.

tchrist

However, I think I see something I might could do.

Andrew Leach

@JasperLoy Oh come on, you can't be doing that again.

tchrist

Oh BTW, I forgot to tell you guys, but today I protected like all the Famous Questions.

Jasper Loy

@AndrewLeach I am trying to keep this account for a lifetime.

George Pompidou

@JasperLoy what could stop you?

tchrist

22:11

Basically, I ran a SEDE query for 5+ answers and 10k+ views. Something like that.

George Pompidou

that's it this is a struggle fest gets laptop

Jasper Loy

@GeorgePompidou Hmm, I just have a bad habit of deleting things.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist I have no objection.

tchrist

And SEDE won’t count the deleted ones, so that should be ok.

I just find myself protecting a bunch daily.

Some of the ones SEDE returned either you or I had protected within the last 3 or 4 days.

Andrew Leach

@GeorgePompidou Chat's hopeless on an iPad, too.

tchrist

22:12

@JasperLoy You should help hoarders clean their homes.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist I try not to protect if possible, but for many it's necessary.

George Pompidou

there.

Alraxite

@JasperLoy You can just block this site when you feel like deleting.

George Pompidou

@JasperLoy well just… don't click the delete button. it's the best way.

Alraxite

addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/leechblock

See, there are addons for that.

George Pompidou

22:14

@AndrewLeach yep. I've tried. looks like my $3000 macbook pro is the only thing that can handle this.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Things I intentionally do not protect are those with no accepted answer, nor any good one, nor any upvoted one.

George Pompidou

@Alraxite yeah, but if he can click the delete button he can unblock the site, dummy.

Andrew Leach

@GeorgePompidou That's a bit extravagant. I have a £600 Alienware laptop which is up to it.

George Pompidou

the best way to not do something is to not do it.

@AndrewLeach kind of sarcasm (or hyperbole? not sure)

tchrist

A question with one or two answers with low vote totals still might attract good answers from first-time posters.

George Pompidou

22:15

this conversation about deletion reminds me of my conversations with my "addict" friend. help man, I can't not do drugs and drink excessively

well just… don't do it.

tchrist

I have gotten in the habit of autoprotecting anything that has a Not An Answer rep=1 thing added to it.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist I don't tend to be so scientific. Gut feeling hasn't gone wrong yet, so perhaps I'm doing that calculation.

Alraxite

@GeorgePompidou I would imagine that unblocking wouldn't be as simple as just clicking a button.

Andrew Leach

@GeorgePompidou Just fact. :-)

tchrist

I don’t know that I am either. I am trying to distill what I think I am doing behind the curtain of consciousness.

Alraxite

22:16

How is it going to keep you from the site if it were that simple?

George Pompidou

@Alraxite sure, but I'd also imagine Jasper isn't an idiot and can still do the unblocking process. I'd imagine it's not string theory.

your whole argument is just useless, give up.

not doing something is as easy as not doing it.

Alraxite

Obviously, it does allow you a way to unblock it

George Pompidou

not doing something is so easy it doesn't have a difficulty value. it is just… doing nothing.

you just sit down. or do any other thing.

Andrew Leach

Which is **** hard, sometimes.

Alraxite

But a more convoluted way acts as a deterrent

George Pompidou

22:18

best way to not delete an account: do not lift your arm up, put it on your mouse, click on a long series of buttons… etc

not doing all those things is infinitely easier than doing them.

am I taking crazy pills? am I the only one who was given the gift of logical thought here?

skullpatrol

easy to say^

Jasper Loy

It's actually very troublesome to delete an SE account. And you cannot delete a gravatar account.

George Pompidou

yeah, but not as easy as to not say!

Andrew Leach

Anyway, I'm going to mute pings and retire, since I've forgotten how long ago it was I said I needed to do that. Night all.

George Pompidou

not doing something is easier than doing it! that's a literal fact!

good night old chap

skullpatrol

22:20

bye

Alraxite

By that logic, not not doing things would become easier than not doing things and so doing things would become easier than not doing things.

Jasper Loy

Anyway, I am going to switch from Ubuntu-based Mint to Debian-based Mint once the version based on Debian Stable comes out. Then I will probably say bye to Ubuntu forever.

George Pompidou

you're taking it too far.

I'm only saying that something that requires movement of your body

takes energy.

skullpatrol

like living?

George Pompidou

not doing something that requires movement of your body requires no more energy than that which you'd consume anyway

Alraxite

22:22

QED. You're wrong.

George Pompidou

just being alive

skullpatrol

not living is easier than living?

George Pompidou

facepalm

Jasper Loy

The only hard thing about not living is the killing process.

George Pompidou

done talking about this with you lot of idiots.

@JasperLoy so what's wrong with ubuntu?

skullpatrol

22:23

don't call me an idiot

George Pompidou

stop saying emo bullshit and talk to me about ubuntu. c'mon man.

skullpatrol

I never called you any names

George Pompidou

what's your reasoning towards Debian?

I use both, so I'm not too biased.

just curious.

Jasper Loy

@GeorgePompidou Actually, this preference is very desktop-based. I like MATE but not GNOME or UNITY. Mint defaults to MATE, not Debian or Ubuntu.

skullpatrol

would you like me to start?

just curious

George Pompidou

22:25

@JasperLoy ah, I have unity at work and haven't found it to be too bad. it does have a lot of social media bloat.

Jasper Loy

I really like GNOME 2, but sadly it has changed to GNOME 3.

George Pompidou

but I was asking why you would switch from mint ubuntu to mint debian (assuming they both have mate)

Jasper Loy

@GeorgePompidou Because l like distros not based on others more, and Mint is based on Ubuntu and Ubuntu is based on Debian.

George Pompidou

well…

Jasper Loy

It also just seems that Debian is slightly more stable than Ubuntu.

George Pompidou

22:27

Ubuntu has built on Debian a lot.

skullpatrol

💀👒💀

George Pompidou

"based" I think is in a good way there

also, I doubt re: stability. Ubuntu is developed by a more professional group of people than Debian.

they actually get paid. and solve issues for Enterprise.

which is always good for stability.

Jasper Loy

Anyway, I won't use Fedora based stuff now. GNOME doesn't work on my laptop and they are changing the package manager yum to something else.

George Pompidou

that's why all the big companies have used the more antiquated redhat and suse and stuff.

Jasper Loy

apt-get is certainly superior to yum and zypper.

George Pompidou

22:29

well nobody's ever challenged that.

I'm just saying I believe in Ubuntu a bit more. Debian's community makes me think of big hairy unshowered guys in their moms' basements.

Jasper Loy

Anyway, I have weird reasons for preferring one thing to another. I suspect I am a bit autistic.

George Pompidou

also, go ahead and take a look at big essential packages in Ubuntu compared to Debian

they write most of their own/patch them much quicker than Debian gets them

openSSL was patched in 2 seconds by the Ubuntu crew. took the Debian community 4 seconds.

Jasper Loy

I am kind of waiting to see if Ubuntu will have an official MATE derivative.

Robusto

A QA pineapple just noted that in the ticket I just completed "all fictionality now working."

George Pompidou

@JasperLoy that'd be interesting. have you considered XFCE?

I used to use that back in high school to be a rebel.

I wonder where it's ended up now. pretty sure ubuntu still has an official xfce distro

Jasper Loy

22:32

@GeorgePompidou Yes, but I prefer the GNOME family of applications.

@GeorgePompidou Yes, it is Xubuntu.

George Pompidou

you can still get the gnome libraries for xubuntu

and run them all

skullpatrol

🙈🙉🙊💤@Robusto

George Pompidou

@Robusto what's pineapple mean in this context?

I've been meaning to ask

Jasper Loy

@GeorgePompidou non-native speaker = NNS = ananas = pineapple

George Pompidou

that about explains it.

goes to poop

skullpatrol

22:34

^T.M.I.

🚽

Jasper Loy

@GeorgePompidou Oh, I was a bit upset with you yesterday, but I have gotten over it now, no hard feelings.

George Pompidou

@JasperLoy that's brilliant

my poop went well if anyone is curious.

@JasperLoy I didn't mean to upset you. I just went through rough times too a while ago, and now realize that even though some things were fucked, I wish someone was around to encourage me to stop moping about them and try to make the best of my life and fix my shit. because even though I did have it bad on some fronts, I was way too emo about it and wasted way too much time talking about how bad things were rather than thinking about what's positive and what I have going for me.

</motivational speech>

@skullpatrol I thought about you while pooping.

and played Disco Zoo on my iPad

KitFox

@MattЭллен Nuh-uh! I was neuro. With a strong background in psych.

So the CIO up and quit.

George Pompidou

22:49

how do you know if there were only hands in the meeting?

you need ears to hear things.

unless… you work for a company of people with ears on their hands

KitFox

Or if the hands were signing against the other hands, like you do with a blind and deaf person.

George Pompidou

so like fondling each other?

was it a fondle meeting?

tchrist

@KitFox Well, well.

George Pompidou

s73.photobucket.com/user/Nascarfan3824/media/Funny%20Pictures/…

tchrist

@Kit Is this good, bad, or indifferent? And is it spin-control?

George Pompidou

22:55

didn't you hear? it was just hands touching each other.

Robusto

Don't make me go all Neil Diamond on this chat.

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