English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

20:03

I don't the r is localised there...

Andrew Leach

@tchrist I've now commented on that question. I don't mind being accountable.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Thanks. I had initially been going to suggest a meta question, but he hasn’t the reps.

Plus, honestly, this question has nearly innumerable dupes.

I guess I am becoming a little short with askers who show no effort.

MrHen

@tchrist You don't say...

Andrew Leach

Finding duplicates is an art. I'd be happy to mark it as a question having a duplicate instead.

MrHen

;)

@AndrewLeach It is. Especially when terms like "a" are involved.

tchrist

20:09

As you say, there are a Saganplex of such questions out there, and we would be completely deluged were we to incorridge them.

MrHen

Maybe one of the things I should do is start a master list of duplicate targets split up by common form

tchrist

@MrHen Other than the Frequent page?

MrHen

@tchrist Yes

Other than the frequent page

Mitch

@AndrewLeach It's easier to create duplicates.

MrHen

More of a "reverse-lookup" tool for duplicates

tchrist

20:11

I’ve talked about this before, but it has gone nowhere.

Andrew Leach

@Mitch Yes, as askers demonstrate on a more-than-daily basis :-(

tchrist

Very short questions tend to be very low quality ones that tend to generate very low quality answers, and so do not add value to the site by helping future visitors.

Andrew Leach

It's a pity the How to ask a good question is so buried in the Help. english.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-ask

tchrist

Yep.

That too.

@MrHen Do you know whether it is possible to search for posts with attached moderator notes in SEDE?

Cerberus

Who do you think these girls are?

Andrew Leach

20:21

How about the Crown Princess of the Netherlands and her sisters?

Cerberus

The ones wearing the horrible plastic sports shirts, with the logo of a commercial fraudulous bank? Ding!

Such decadence.

Robusto

but if she had a set of wings man i know she could fly

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

You don't know what I got.

tchrist

I suggest we not use tags at all; they proliferate like cockroaches and serve very little purpose. As for Ms. Bear's remarks, she's absolutely dead-on correct. And where else would "propriety" ever come from, but those who themselves act properly? Look up "ingroup language" and "outgroup language" — jlawler May 21 at 22:29

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 That's a bingo.

Also a pingo.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Also, I don't think I've stumped you yet. makes note to keep trying

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

20:27

@Robusto I think you have.

Maybe not.

MrHen

@tchrist Yeah, probably

tchrist

@MrHen I’d rather like to both burninate and blacklist the grammar tag.

MrHen

@tchrist You'll get no complaint from me.

Robusto

Aww, why are you all picking on that nice old lady?

MrHen

@Robusto Who is "we"?

Robusto

20:31

@MrHen The ones pickin' on me grammy.

MrHen

@Robusto Bummer, I missed the grammy bashing? :(

Andrew Leach

grammy.com

Mitch

@Cerberus and the one on the right, wearing cutoff jean shorts, a sign of American capitalist bourgeois corruption.

tchrist

6

Q: The plan for [grammar]

The tag grammar is one of our most highly-used tags, though it is, unfortunately, so vague as to be nearly useless. I submit the following proposal as a way to break up this tag into something useful. Following nohat's answer, questions about the grammatical acceptability of a particular senten...

More than two years later, ni nada.

MrHen

My hunch is that the primary use for grammar is because people aren't expecting grammaticality

Cerberus

20:44

@Mitch Haha, those aren't cut-off jeans!

And, while it is true that jeans are perhaps less fitting for a princess, they are so common among all kinds of people here that it is difficult to scold her.

Mitch

@Cerberus wha?? what are they? also what is the evil bank her sister is endorsing?

Cerberus

The Rabobank.

It is slightly less evil than some other banks, but they did take part in the Libor/Euribor frauds.

And they have been paying their directors excessive bonuses and stuff.

Mitch

21:06

The Robberbank

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Robobank?

Matt Эллен

rabo is an anagram of boar

coincidence?

Mitch

anagram is an anagram of anagram.

Matt Эллен

Mitch is an anagram

Mitch

That's how awesome I am.

tchrist

21:08

@AndrewLeach I almost wonder whether we shouldn’t include the blurb about prior research in the Ask Question dialogue: “Have you thoroughly searched for an answer before asking your question? Sharing your research helps everyone. Tell us what you found and why it didn’t meet your needs. This demonstrates that you’ve taken the time to try to help yourself, it saves us from reiterating obvious answers, and above all, it helps you get a more specific and relevant answer!”

Matt Эллен

I wouldn't have guessed

Mitch

@MattЭллен You don't need to guess because it is so obviously true.

tchrist

@Mitch anagram != acronym

Matt Эллен

I guess so

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Yes. That would be a site-wide thing, presumably -- although none the worse for that.

tchrist

21:11

@AndrewLeach Well, it could be site-specific to ELU, but I do think it would help.

Droll.

Matt Эллен

lol

Johan Larsson

@Matt what do you say about that you and I write a quarternion tomorrow?

Matt Эллен

I still only have VS 2010

OK, sounds like fun :D

Johan Larsson

21:29

#good times, it is for this

hej Jez

Matt Эллен

good night :)

Andrew Leach

Good night. And to everyone else. I wonder why today has been tiring.

Jez

hi johan

Alraxite

22:50

I just did a clean install of my OS. I feel good.

@Jez Hello, do you use Firefox?

Jez

no i use Seamonkey

Alraxite

Oh, right, OK.

Do you use a portable version? @Jez

Jez

nope

tchrist

0

Q: A simple proposal towards improving question quality

Encouraging Better Questions I would like to encourage the asking of better, more substantial questions. Every day we receive many brief, low-quality questions that are unlikely to elicit anything but low-quality answers which are equally unlikely to be of any help to future visitors of our sit...

discussion feature-request appropriate-questions ell low-quality-posts

Alraxite

@Jez okay.

user116848

23:07

Hi everybody :)

Alraxite

@tchrist I think I believe that if a banner were presented these askers when they went to ask their question reading lacks a to.

tchrist

@Alraxite I will present you a bill upon completion of this exercise.

user116848

So is this sentence grammatical? (Let's say John is deceased) "If John did hide the car may be he would park it in a place where nobody would go looking" (So is this sentence grammatical for a dead person)

Cerberus

I would say no: he would have parked it, or, more likely, he parked it.

user116848

Hi Cerbs

user116848

23:14

So "would" is wrong here?

Cerberus

Hi.

I would say yes, colloquial at best.

user116848

okay

Robusto

@tchrist +1. Anytime I see a question phrased like "Is this correct usage?" I want to fold, spindle, and mutilate someone's IBM punch card.

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: Restrooms are for paying customers only. (no tags)

3

user116848

@Cerberus But here same situation then why only "would" (The person being spoken of is dead here too) springfieldspringfield.co.uk/… (Search for this line " If he were looking for a place to hide that ledger maybe he would put it where he thought no one would go looking".

Cerberus

@Arrowfar If he did hide...he would have parked it, but if he were looking for a place...he would put it.

If + simple past = about the past, so the main clause needs would have or simple past; if + past subjunctive = about the present, so the main clause needs would.

user116848

23:24

Oh, so you are saying that he hadn't put the ledger yet?

Robusto

@Cerberus If I wanted to go home, I would simply go home.

If I'd wanted to go home, I would simply have gone home.

Cerberus

@Arrowfar Not yet: no, rather, not at all. If + past subjunctive (if he were looking...) is about an hypothetical or untrue description of the present.

user116848

@Robusto Yah I know about the three conditionals but here (the person is dead) that's the confusion

Cerberus

@Robusto Yes, that's what I'm saying...

Robusto

If I want to go home, I will simply go home.

Then we're in agreement.

user116848

23:27

What about conditional for 'dead' person?

Cerberus

Look not at the situation, but at the actual tense that is used in the if clause.

user116848

I see

RegDwigнt

5

Q: Subtraction of a negative number

Why subtraction of a negative number from a positive number is addition? Eg: $a - (-b) = a + b$ When looking through the number scale I am unable to relate this, please kindly clarify ?

arithmetic

Holy moly.

Looks like Maths don't have gen-ref.

Robusto

Who says words can't mean more than one thing? There are words in English that are their own antonyms, depending on context. Consider fast and cleave, for example. There are others. — Robusto 34 secs ago

RegDwigнt

It's not even gen-ref, it's by-def.

Cerberus

23:30

Haha very nice.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto that particular OP sure elucidates gargantuan conversation interspersed with ah screw it I can't write like that even when I try.

Robusto

So there are math pineapples too?

@RegDwigнt I was noticing the same thing. It's like seeing a salmon dressed in black tie, kind of.

RegDwigнt

Salmon à la mode.

Robusto

Salmon à la math.

RegDwigнt

Salmon à le Meth Damon.

Robusto

23:34

Salmon inheres within.

RegDwigнt

Yes, yes, "à le". That's a middle doigt at the Latins.

Vulgar Latins.

Robusto

See you at the Brandenburg Vulgate.

RegDwigнt

Vulgate Dentagard?

Robusto

Bilabial dentifrice.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt au?

RegDwigнt

23:35

@tchrist due read aun.

Cerberus

Scandalous.

RegDwigнt

Germany will be kicking some French ass pretty soon.

tchrist

Impudic.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt What a shocker. I can't recall them ever doing that before.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

RegDwigнt

23:36

The match agains Algérie just ended, and I am exhausted.

@Robusto well I'm not quite as methusalad as you, so I in pointe of facte cannot, but see your point I do.

Robusto

Easy, James Joyce.

RegDwigнt

James Joyce is never easy.

You must be misspelling Hummingway.

Cerberus

Last time it was on the news, France beat Germany...

RegDwigнt

Yeah yeah we all know you don't have a TV.

Cerberus

And the time before that.

Thanks to the entente cordiale.

RegDwigнt

23:40

Yeah yeah we all know TV didn't exist back then.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt What’s that now?

Robusto

The other day I learned that Joyce met Yeats when Joyce was about 20. He asked Yeats his age, and Yeats told him (47? I don't recall). Whereupon Joyce said it was too bad, he was too old for Joyce to help him.

RegDwigнt

And just look where they are now!

Bushwick can't sleep.

Robusto

Death, the great equalizer.

Death is just nature's way of telling you to slow down.

RegDwigнt

With forty virgins.

Robusto

23:42

Down from my usual 72, yeah?

RegDwigнt

It's the age.

Don't wanna risk a heart attack in paradise.

Robusto

Surely, though, if there were such a thing as paradise, wouldn't it be so good that you wouldn't even want sex? And if you did want sex, wouldn't you want it with someone more practiced in the art than, say, a virgin?

RegDwigнt

(And of course the religious man's response would be, 40 means "a great lot of", while 72 is just a measly 72 and not a single one more.)

Robusto

See, they're just not thinking this stuff through.

@RegDwigнt That is the biblical interpretation of 40, yes. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, the Israelites were in the desert for 40 years, etc.

RegDwigнt

That's because the people who were supposed to be thinking this stuff through are long dead themselves.

Robusto

23:45

►

Some Chris Guest for y'all.

RegDwigнt

And not even six feet deep. Think more like petroleum.

@Robusto I knew Ali Baba and the 40 thieves would get no love from you.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Not to mention the 40-oz. beer bottle size.

RegDwigнt

Yup, unmentioned as always.

Robusto

40 (number)

40 (forty) is the natural number following 39 and preceding 41. Despite being related to the word "four" (4), 40 is spelled "forty", and not "fourty". The reason is that etymologically (also in accents without the horse–hoarse merger) the words have different vowels. "Forty" containing a contraction in the same way that "fifty" contains a contraction of "five". In mathematics Forty and fourty is a composite number, an octagonal number, and as the sum of the first four pentagonal numbers, it is a pentagonal pyramidal number. Adding up some subsets of its divisors (e.g., 1, 4, 5, 10 and...

RegDwigнt

Nice photo.

A good hair day for a change.

> Despite being related to the word "four" (4), 40 is spelled "forty", and not "fourty".

Robusto

23:48

RegDwigнt

I wonder just how many decades this sentence will hold.

Also, how many Wikiwars will be fought over it before it finally changes.

Robusto

More interesting is this:

> The reason is that etymologically (also in accents without the horse–hoarse merger) the words have different vowels.

What a gem.

RegDwigнt

Yeah, as we all know, English spelling is phonetic.

Totally the reason.

Robusto

So they're different words because they have different vowels. I guess for and four and fore are different for the same reason. Hey, it works!

RegDwigнt

I submit that bar is not the same as car, either.

Robusto

23:50

But think about this: who would take it upon himself to define 40 in a wiki article? What sort of person does that?

RegDwigнt

Wait, lemme patent it before submitting.

Robusto

I call tar and far.

Har!

RegDwigнt

@Robusto I sort of hope it was one of the many bots, but seeing how it's a very low number I know the hope is in vain.

Robusto

Also, mar and war.

RegDwigнt

My tartar is very farfar.

The warwara at the Marmara.

Robusto

23:52

war is not the same as oar, either.

RegDwigнt

And of course the barbarians are the varvarians in Russian.

Robusto

Yeah. Russians, more than anyone, require two "b" sounds. Fuckin' A!

RegDwigнt

And two "v" sounds, too.

user116848

@Robusto I understood the condition part. Just want to ask if we can use thinks instead of thought in this sentence: " If he were looking for a place to hide that ledger maybe he would put it where he thought no one would go looking".

Robusto

Now you're splitting hairs.

Have you met my friend, Al? Al Veolar?

RegDwigнt

23:53

No, splitting a hair would result in a Y. I am not skilled enough to achieve a clear V.

@Robusto that's Al Di Veolar to you.

Robusto

Al di Meolar, you mean.

RegDwigнt

John's McLaughing at you.

Robusto

I can't go on. Too tired.

I need a li'l bit of recuperando.

RegDwigнt

A Poco de Lucia, eh?

user116848

You guys saw my question?

terdon

23:56

They're too busy making good bad puns.

Robusto

►

Poco de Cimmaron.

RegDwigнt

@Arrowfar I would not use thinks there at gunpoint.

Robusto

God, how I despised people who were Poco fans. Still do.

RegDwigнt

I would also not use it not at gunpoint.

But thankfully the question was at Rob so I can just ignore it.

Robusto

That's how I work these things out.

terdon

23:58

@Robusto Ah, thanks, I thought you liked that.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto oh come on now. Do the Pocomotion.

Robusto

@terdon Can't you tell the difference between a YouTube post and an ironic YouTube post? Pfft. No wonder your team lost yesterday.

Seriously, Costa Rica? They don't even have a player named Socrates.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto an ironic YouTube post will have comments underneath it saying how ironic it is.

terdon

Irony? That's like bronzey and goldy only made of iron right?

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Looking at the comments is cheating.

RegDwigнt

23:59

@Robusto Sokratis, actually. An impostor.

terdon

Cheating death by aneurism.

Robusto

@terdon Ask @MattЭллен. He'll tell you it's all aluminium.

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