English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

00:00

12

A: Add "Last Seen from IP:" To deleted/destroyed user moderator's view

Thanks for suggesting this change! I have updated the page to display the user's last known IP address along with the usual information. It will be live in the next build (> rev 2014.6.27.2348). Cheers!

Cerberus

00:40

Good evening.

@tchrist Huh, can we do that?

tchrist

@Cerberus Sorta.

You just do it, and it’s done.

It doesn’t delete the comment is all.

1

A: What’s the correct usage of “modulo”?

In a non-searchable and potentially ephemeral comment to the original posting, Professor Lawler kindly presented the following answer: If you want the mathematical sentence translated, it means “10 divided by 3 leaves 1 as a remainder”. As I suspect you already know. The prepositional u...

Cerberus

Hmm.

By the way, my friend asked me to come and do...something tomorrow.

tchrist

And?

Cerberus

She said "witten", but what does she mean?

Witten would mean "to paint white".

tchrist

What language?

Cerberus

00:47

Dutch.

Or was it a typo, and did she mean zitten, "to sit"?

It is about some kind of art exam she is doing.

So it could be the weirdest things!

tchrist

Do you have a ZWERT keyboards there?

Cerberus

Hah.

I suppose w and z are not next to each other.

tchrist

Not usually.

QWERTZ

The QWERTZ or QWERTZU keyboard is a widely used computer and typewriter keyboard layout that is mostly used in Central Europe. The name comes from the first six letters at the top left of the keyboard: Q, W, E, R, T, and Z. The main difference between QWERTZ and QWERTY is that the positions of the "Z" and "Y" keys are switched, this change being made for two major reasons: :* "Z" is a much more common letter than "Y" in German; the latter rarely appears outside words whose spellings reflect either their importation from a foreign language or the Hellenization of an older German for...

Robusto

@Cerberus Sounds ominous.

Cerberus

Ah! There she us.

tchrist

00:50

So you get to ask her?

That would probably be best.

But perhaps she wants you to model for her.

Or blanche her teeth.

Robusto

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: We gave the world our language. Now we want it back. (no tags)

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

01:14

We bought them a Coke, too.

As I recall.

Cerberus

01:25

@tchrist It was she, on the phone.

She wants me to help her paint a room.

tchrist

Well, there you go.

Cerberus

Yes.

About those keyboards, surely Reg uses Qwerty??

Robusto

@Cerberus Why would he? He lives and works in Germany.

Cerberus

If our neighbours do not use Qwerty, how come I didn't know this??

I mean, I know about Azerty.

Robusto

@Cerberus I don't remember exactly, but I believe the Z and Q were switched in Germany. Probably another little gotcha as well.

Maybe it was the Z and the Y.

It's been decades.

Cerberus

01:32

So odd!

I knew they had special keys for certain umlauted characters, but those do not interfere with the basic letter keys.

Is it ethical to put nets under a suicide bridge, like the Golden Gate?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

!!read or write

Jarvis the Bot

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 read

tchrist

@Cerberus Of course.

That way they can be charged with attempted murder and given a life sentence.

Cerberus

Huh, what??

tchrist

See wry.

Cerberus

01:41

People who attempt suicide are charged with murder??

tchrist

@Cerberus Not if they succeed.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Suicide is a crime.

Cerberus

Why on earth??

tchrist

Because you are just trying to defraud your creditors.

Cerberus

What?

tchrist

01:43

Would Sir prefer to purchase a lovely bridge or some stunning beachfront property?

Cerberus

Why would attempted suicide be the concern of the state?

And a life sentence?

I mean, it would be hilarious.

tchrist

@Cerberus The health and well-being of its citizenry is a legitimate concern of the nation. Without citizens, there would be no taxes.

Cerberus

Haha.

But seriously.

tchrist

Because they are mentally ill, is why.

Furthermore, it places an undue cost on the municipality to clean up the debris.

Which is not remunerated.

If they want to die, they can pay for it like everybody else.

Because you cannot change your mind.

> Since the bridge opened in 1937, more than 1,400 people have killed themselves by jumping off the bridge, including a record 46 suicides in 2013. During a news conference on Thursday ahead of the vote, one of the few people who had survived a suicide attempt off the bridge rejected the argument those who were suicidal would find another way if the nets were installed. Kevin Hines, 32, said he felt "instant regret" when he jumped.

Robusto

@tchrist One man's opinion.

tchrist

01:49

@Robusto shhh

In Time Enough for Love, Heinlein proposed that suicide switches be made freely available to all, and that it be made a crime to deny anyone access to said switch. Lazarus Long, tired of life, flipped the switch several times, but those who thought they knew what was good for him, and what wasn’t, had rigged it to knock him out and give him amnesia of the event.

@Cerb Despondent prisoners are routinely placed on suicide-watch. Is this ethical?

Cerberus

I don't know.

That's why I asked.

One of my pupils killed himself a few years ago.

His mother had kind of encouraged him, or at least not objected.

The other kids were perplex.

(And, yes, that is the adjective.)

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus Oh dear.

Cerberus

Yeah.

tchrist

@Cerberus Was she charged?

Cerberus

When he talked to her about suicide, she said, "well, dear, if you think that's best for you; I just want you to be happy".

tchrist

02:02

> In California, medical facilities are empowered or required to commit anyone whom they believe to be suicidal for evaluation and treatment.

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't think that is a crime. Besides, I think she has been punished enough already.

tchrist

@Cerberus Fail.

Cerberus

Yeah, it was awful.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I think we need some kittens in here.

Cerberus

He often drank beer alone on the roof. One day, he jumped.

Everybody loved him, including myself. He had lots of friends, a really nice boy. Nobody understood it.

He may have been gay, we didn't know. He was 14.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

02:05

14 and often drank beer?

tchrist

Saving a life is never a crime.

And forgives any crimes needfully committed in said rescue.

The leading cause of suicide is untreated mental illness. Alcohol is a very nasty multiplier as depressants go.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

tchrist

5150 (involuntary psychiatric hold)

Section 5150 is a section of the California Welfare and Institutions Code (specifically, the Lanterman–Petris–Short Act or "LPS") which allows a qualified officer or clinician to involuntarily confine a person suspected to have a mental disorder that makes him or her a danger to self, a danger to others, and/or gravely disabled. A qualified officer, which includes any California peace officer, as well as any specifically designated county clinician, can request the confinement after signing a written declaration. When used as a term, 5150 (pronounced "fifty-one-fifty") can informally re...

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 So tiny.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yeah, if anyone had known, I'm sure social workers would have been all over him. But I think they didn't.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Cute!

How many octopodes are venomous?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

No idea.

tchrist

02:19

Blue-ringed octopus

The blue-ringed octopuses (genus Hapalochlaena) are three (or perhaps four) octopus species that live in tide pools and coral reefs in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, from Japan to Australia (mainly around southern New South Wales and South Australia, and northern Western Australia). They are recognized as some of the world's most venomous marine animals. Despite their small size and relatively docile nature, they can prove a danger to humans. They can be recognized by their characteristic blue and black rings and yellowish skin. When the octopus is agitated, the brown patches darken dramat...

@Cerberus Every last one of them.

It is as with spiders: all spiders are venomous.

> All octopuses are venomous, but only one group, the blue-ringed octopus, is known to be deadly to humans.

Cerberus

Really?

tchrist

Thus spake Wikipedia.

Cerberus

And how about the place of the venom?

tchrist

And yes, all spiders are venomous.

Cerberus

Beak? Tentacles?

Do all octopodes have beaks?

tchrist

02:23

> The blue-ringed octopus is 12 to 20 cm (5 to 8 in), but its venom is powerful enough to kill humans. No blue-ringed octopus antivenom is available yet, making it one of the deadliest reef inhabitants in the ocean.

The octopus produces venom containing tetrodotoxin, histamine, tryptamine, octopamine, taurine, acetylcholine, and dopamine. The major neurotoxin component of the blue-ringed octopus is a venom that was originally known as maculotoxin but was later found to be identical to tetrodotoxin,[6] a neurotoxin also found in pufferfish and some poison dart frogs[7] that is 1200 times mo…

Saliva.

Cerberus

So it is administered by means of the beak?

It would have been more efficient to have it available on the tentacles.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Cerberus

No venom?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Looks venomous, eh?

Cerberus

More like, cute.

tchrist

02:32

goes to fetch kitties

Cerberus

My friend's cat has been away from home for several days, for the first time ever.

She's really worried.

tchrist

So sorry.

Cerberus

Yeah. But cats do such things. I'm sure he'll be back eventually.

tchrist

02:53

0

A: Origin of "egg on my face"

The more important meaning is when. A person or your wife microwaves an already hard boiled egg to warm it up and places it in a bowl of rice on the table. Only to fork it 30 seconds later. Causing the gasses to expand and the hard boiled egg that was just warmed up to exploded in ones face or yo...

Please click through for the picky. :)

Cerberus

03:04

Most unusual.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Nice.

Mahnax

Hello hello.

user116848

09:41

So no one is here. Ohhhh! I feel kinda scared. Just gotta go. :D

Stack Exchange

11:03

Limerick Machine: I’m not sure how to be proud I don’t often shout things aloud I know that I am A regu…

posted on June 28, 2014 by sgdi

I’m not sure how to be proud I don’t often shout things aloud I know that I am A regular man I prefer to be hid in a shroud

Robusto

12:26

@RegDwigнt: I edited one of your meta posts slightly. If my take on your intent was incorrect, just revert.

Cerberus

Môge.

Cerberus

13:00

> After that night, the accuser spoke with several Occidental employees, including Danielle Dirks, an assistant professor of sociology. Dirks told the accuser that Doe "fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on [a sports team], and was 'from a good family.'"

The student was expelled over rape accusations.

> The student, identified only as "John Doe," had sex with his accuser on September 8th, 2013, according to details of the case obtained by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both Doe and his accuser had been drinking. By several accounts, the sex was consensual. The accuser sent Doe a text message beforehand asking him if he had a condom. She also texted a friend and clearly announced her intention to have sex with Doe.
— https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140624/10133427670/college-reacts-to-negative-press-attempting-to-seal-court-documents-exposing-its-ridiculous-actions…

Robusto

@Cerberus I suspect Mahnax.

Cerberus

I was actually thinking of him...

Of course this would never happen to him. But still, it is worrying.

Robusto

@Cerberus I love it when a chat message displays a "full text" link which, when you click it, actually reveals less text.

Cerberus

Yes, the algorhythm could have been finetuned more.

Robusto

@Cerberus Apparently it can't keep a beat.

Cerberus

13:13

It overflows and leaks out.

(It is from rheô "to stream", just like diarrhoea.)

Robusto

algorithm 1690s, from French algorithme, refashioned (under mistaken connection with Greek arithmos "number") from Old French algorisme "the Arabic numeral system" (13c.), from Medieval Latin algorismus, a mangled transliteration of Arabic al-Khwarizmi "native of Khwarazm," surname of the mathematician whose works introduced sophisticated mathematics to the West (see algebra). The earlier form in Middle English was algorism (early 13c.), from Old French.

From etymonline.com.

Cerberus

Huh!

Robusto

I thought you were trying to be funny with "algorhythm."

Johan Larsson

13:35

algorhythm

yes I have spammed it many times, like the song :)

Cerberus

13:47

@Robusto Kind of. The Greek spelling is rhythm, and I thought it came from that. But you have destroyed my world!

terdon

I always thought it was a Greek word too. I never could understand why. Now I know.

Cerberus

So apparently arithmos → arithmetic is unrelated to rhythmos → rhythm is unrelated to al-Khwarizmi → algorism/algorithm.

@terdon I had the same thing, I knew there was something about it, something gnawing at my brain.

I shall henceforth use algorism.

I hate fake Greek with pathos.

(Which is indeed related to patior → passion/passive.)

tchrist

@Cerberus Best watch out for your logarhythms, too then.

Cerberus

Nooo...

That is probably from arithmos?

tchrist

> ad. mod.L. logarithm-us (Napier, 1614), f. Gr. λόγ-ος word, proportion, ratio + ἀριθμός number.

Cerberus

13:59

I knew it.

So rhythm, arithmetics, logarithm, algorism.

tchrist

It’s just that algorithm and logarithm are famously anagrams of each other.

Cerberus

Are not!!

tchrist

Ask @Rob, he’s good at this.

Cerberus

Algorism has no t or h.

tchrist

> algorithm /ˈælgərɪθ(ə)m/.

Etymology: f. algorism, influenced by Gr. ἀριθμός ‘number.’

Cerberus

14:01

7 mins ago, by Cerberus

I shall henceforth use algorism.

tchrist

No one will know what you are talking about.

Cerberus

Since when did we care about that??

tchrist

They’ll think you’re lisping.

Cerberus

I'm not pronouncing it /s/.

tchrist

You’ll be pronouncing /θ/ as /s/: we have words for those kinds of people, you know.

user116848

14:03

Hi everybody

Cerberus

@tchrist Umm no, it's /z/.

I'm not Dutch!

@Arrowfar Hi.

user116848

@Cerberus I watched "Legends of the Hercules 2014" today hehe

tchrist

@Cerberus Regressive assimilation. Not phonemic.

Cerberus

@Arrowfar Bah, that upstart!

@tchrist There is no assimilation here. -ism is /ɪzm/.

user116848

@Cerberus I bet you wouldn't like the movie

Cerberus

14:06

Indeed not!

user116848

haha

Cerberus

He is a bad man.

user116848

No he is Not :D

Cerberus

But I must have my bath now.

user116848

I mean 'was'

Cerberus

14:06

He abducted me!

disappears

user116848

haha

user116848

Where?

tchrist

I have pictures.

user116848

Please share

tchrist

user116848

14:10

What does it say? We need some captions

Mitch

@Robusto less is more

Zoe

HAR!! it says

in my mind, which is having a fever right now.

tchrist

@Arrowfar It says “Heracles and Cerberus (Eurystheus hiding in the bronze jar, again) Hydria found in Cairéa, 530-525 BC”

user116848

Cool :)

tchrist

> Cerberus' parents were the monster Echinda (half-woman, half-serpent) and Typhon (a fire-breathing giant covered with dragons and serpents). Even the gods of Olympus were afraid of Typhon.

Among the children attributed to this awful couple were Orthus (or Othros), the Hydra of Lerna, and the Chimaera. Orthus was a two-headed hound which guarded the cattle of Geryon. With the Chimaera, Orthus fathered the Nemean Lion and the Sphinx. The Chimaera was a three-headed fire-breathing monster, part lion, part snake, and part goat. Hercules seemed to have a lot of experience dealing with this fa…

Mitch

14:13

@Cerberus You can use that but it'll sound weird. (it is an alternative that hasn't gotten much traction)

tchrist

Rather serpentine for hell hounds, eh?

user116848

@tchrist You have watched any Hercules movies or cartoon?

tchrist

Probably the parental genes peaking through.

@Arrowfar Not in the last 40 years.

user116848

@tchrist haha

tchrist

Mitch

14:15

I think Cerb's parent have been insulted.. "awful"

tchrist

> Herakles leads Kerberos, the hound of Haides, forth from the underworld on a chain. He is greeted by his half-sister Persephone (to the right, not shown), who has given the hero permission to remove the hound, and is accompanied by the gods Athene and Hermes.

Mitch

@tchrist yeah, where are the thought balloons?

Bam! Crash! Argh!

tchrist

Mitch

What's the opposite of lisping (turning lithp into lisp)?

tchrist

@Mitch seseando

Mitch

14:19

@tchrist Is there hypercorrection in the thetheando dialects? (Or however they say it)

tchrist

@Mitch No.

Pero sí hay unos pocos que cecean.

> In Spanish dialectology, the terms distinción, seseo and ceceo are used to describe the opposition between dialects that distinguish the phonemes /θ/ and /s/, and those that exhibit merger of the two sounds (neutralización) into either /s/ (seseo) or [s̄], a sibilant fricative similar to /θ/ (ceceo).

Normal is to make the distinction.

Mergers are either seseo speakers, or, rarely, ceceo speakers.

> Dialects that distinguish the two sounds, and thus pronounce the words casa "house" and caza "hunt" differently, are described as having distinción, whereas the dialects that lack this distinction and pronounce the two words as homophones are described as having seseo if both words are pronounced with [s] or ceceo if both words are pronounced with [s̄].

Phonological history of Spanish coronal fricatives

In Spanish dialectology, the terms distinción, seseo and ceceo are used to describe the opposition between dialects that distinguish the phonemes and , and those that exhibit merger of the two sounds (neutralización) into either (seseo) or , a sibilant fricative similar to (ceceo). Dialects that distinguish the two sounds, and thus pronounce the words casa "house" and caza "hunt" differently, are described as having distinción, whereas the dialects that lack this distinction and pronounce the two words as homophones are described as having seseo if both words are pronounced with or ce...

Mitch

I'm reading exactly that!

user116848

@Mitch Can you tell me what's the reason of preformatted text style option when posting something on the main site?

Cerberus

@Mitch And...

tchrist

@Arrowfar To make tables with, basically.

user116848

14:26

@tchrist How do I know if my 'edit' (to someone's question) has been accepted?u Because I have edited a couple of questions but don't know whether they have been accepted.

tchrist

@Arrowfar I reverted one of them, because it needed vertical alignment.

I can find it here somewhere.

user116848

@tchrist So you got my edits?

tchrist

Yes, I did.

user116848

So they weren't good enough?

user116848

Just asking

tchrist

14:28

english.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/72739

There’s no reason to add bold to that posting.

user116848

Thanks for pointing that out

tchrist

This one I approved, but by accident when I saw the result, and hand-reverted later:

english.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/72741

You should be able to see all the review histories: english.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/history

I think.

user116848

@tchrist So for edits we don't get any response in our inbox?

tchrist

Right. But you get +2 reps per accepted edit that was deemed helpful.

user116848

okay

tchrist

14:33

There are ways to get more info from the system, like your personal history of suggested edit success ratio and such, but I forget where the knobs are.

Oh duh.

I see now.

You have to hit the “more” bit on a suggested edit.

user116848

@tchrist Where? In my profile?

tchrist

No, follow the link to each suggested edit, and then it has a “more” you can click.

Robusto

14:53

@tchrist It is true. And it's not even hard. Just cancel the rithm and you have four letters: algo -> loga.

Matt Эллен

16:10

@Cerberus triple Dutch

RegDwigнt

16:40

@Robusto yeah I will go with whatever you say. I actually don't think I ever used either word in that manner, nor could I tell when was the last time I heard someone else do it. Basically it was a flat-out fuck-all calque from German.

Mitch

16:55

3 hours ago, by tchrist

No one will know what you are talking about.

KitFox

17:07

@tchrist Thank you, and please be patient.

tchrist

@KitFox I will try.

Speaking of patience. . . .

2

A: "as to + verb" vs "to + verb"

These all say the same thing (well, or can say the same thing; see below): It has been done so as to permit air to circulate freely. It has been done so to permit air to circulate freely. It has been done in order to permit air to circulate freely. It has been done ...

I’ve added a brief addendum addressing the concerns voiced by several users. I rather hope they have the patience to read it, and that it satisfies them.

KitFox

The user in question often links to his source. Is it explicit in our guidelines that the source must also be stated?

tchrist

I don’t think so, but it would help.

Virtually every answer of that user is just a citation from some dictionary or another, or less than that, and includes no original text of the user’s own devising.

It is better than only a link, true.

@KitFox The principal problem to my mind is that the “sources” which that user cites vary dramatically in their reputation, from published dictionaries to crowd-sourced ones to random web pages. The user in question makes no differentiation between these, and it is too easy to miss, since it requires that the reader hover over the link to gage how trustworthy the source is.

Does that make any sense, or am I just being hyper–anal-retentive in this?

KitFox

I'm divided on that. It's up to the consumer of the information to determine its quality.

On the other hand, this user often posts without attribution.

tchrist

Yes.

I would really like the attribution given in a way that does not require hovering.

KitFox

17:19

Also, link rot could make that an issue.

tchrist

Absolutely.

KitFox

If you have the summary, but not the original source.

But then again, there are literally thousands of answers attributed that way.

tchrist

The user also posts things without formatting them with a leading ">" to indicate that it is not the user’s own words. This may be inexperience.

KitFox

I don't think there is set policy governing an explicit statement of source.

We have in the past allowed implicit sourcing via links.

tchrist

I’m not saying to disallow it.

KitFox

17:21

I'm thinking out loud.

tchrist

I would just prefer to see it more clearly stated than hover-only.

KitFox

We should probably post something on Meta.

I'd prefer to have a universal statement.

I don't want to single out a particular user, even though he happens to be the reason I'm thinking about it.

tchrist

And you are right to think that way.

KitFox

He has a high volume of answers like this, but there are many other users who do the same thing.

tchrist

I must scamper off to the Marmers Farket. Spent far too long on that stoopid so to thing, so to speak.

KitFox

17:23

So it comes down to what should the policy be?

I'll have to think about that some more.

tchrist

(bbl)

KitFox

ciao

Andrew Leach

@KitFox Basically it comes down to the "fair use" provisions of US copyright law. I know about UK copyright, but not US practice. However, I would say that a link is not an attribution. An attribution shows in plain text what the source is (and can link to the source), in order that a person or a process visiting the page and extracting text does actually get the source.

KitFox

Then we need to put that clearly on Meta and make sure people start doing that.

tchrist

18:42

Back, with thoughts.

And scrumptals.

The scrummy bits are: a pound of fresh lion’s-mane mushrooms, a dozen fresh on-the-vine summer tomatos, three English cucumbers, a dozen fresh-cut aromatic lilies, one summer bouquet riotous of hue, a half-dozen vegan tamales, a pint of fresh-made smokin’ chipotle salsa, and best of all, three pounds of just-picked sweet dark-red cherries so fresh that the skins are super-thin&tender. Oh and one blueberry-juice–lavender popsicle, but that didn’t make it home save on my shirt and shorts.

Cerberus

@Mitch And I care about the masses because...

tchrist

@Cerberus Because they might be malignant, of course. A biopsy may be in order.

Cerberus

Or a nuke.

tchrist

18:57

It seems too early in the season for nukes, but I did bag three.

Cerberus

Oh?

What type?

tchrist

English.

19 mins ago, by tchrist

The scrummy bits are: a pound of fresh lion’s-mane mushrooms, a dozen fresh on-the-vine summer tomatos, three English cucumbers, a dozen fresh-cut aromatic lilies, one summer bouquet riotous of hue, a half-dozen vegan tamales, a pint of fresh-made smokin’ chipotle salsa, and best of all, three pounds of just-picked sweet dark-red cherries so fresh that the skins are super-thin&tender. Oh and one blueberry-juice–lavender popsicle, but that didn’t make it home save on my shirt and shorts.

Andrew Leach

Ah. Newcumbers. Didn't he make a steam engine?

skullpatrol

BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIL!!!!!

Andrew Leach

19:13

Is nowhere safe?!

tchrist

@skullpatrol Then you shouldn’t be wearing one, now should you?

skullpatrol

:D

Cerberus

So.

What's new here?

skullpatrol

19:33

tchrist wants me to take off my BRAAAAAAAAAAZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIL!!!!

Jez

20:52

@JohanLarsson yeah?

Johan Larsson

the gif two rows above

you have probably seen it elsewhere already

Jez

oh yeah

dear god I hate Screamapova

I watched part of her match... and I do mean watched. On fucking mute.

Johan Larsson

who is it?

Jez

the female tennis player whose vocal chords I would gladly rip out with my bare hands

Johan Larsson

easier to switch channel

or evevn better turn of the tv

Cerberus

22:56

Hello!

@JohanLarsson I agree.

Television sucks.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…