English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

17:03

@MattЭллен They all suck. some less than others.

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 facepaw

@Arrowfar It would be odd to use "had" for the future.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I see blue green and gray. is that considered colorful?

yasar

Here is an interesting quiz; gameswithwords.org/WhichEnglish

tchrist

@Cerberus I dunno. The matter of backshifting She says she has into She said she had doesn’t seem so odd. The question is what difference might a non-backshifted second part have from a backshifted one.

Cerberus

>
Our top three guesses for your English dialect:
1. Australian
2. Welsh (UK)
3. Singaporean
Our top three guesses for your native (first) language:
1. English
2. Norwegian
3. Swedish

yasar

17:14

@Cerberus Where are you from?

Cerberus

Holland.

gameswithwords.org/WhichEnglish/done.php

Matt Эллен

@Mitch glad to see you'll be happy with whomever is elected

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mitch it gets better.

Cerberus

No, I only started learning English at 12, at least officially. No, I have never been in England for more than two weeks. No, I have never had an English flatmate. No, I have never lived anywhere but in Holland. (They ask those questions.)

KitFox

> Our top three guesses for your English dialect:
1. Canadian
2. American (Standard)
3. Australian
Our top three guesses for your native (first) language:
1. English
2. Norwegian
3. Swedish

Hahahaha! It thinks you're Welsh.

Cerberus

17:17

@tchrist OK now that I read it again, it sounds perfectly normal. Introspection sucks!! Especially without context.

KitFox

I think it sounds wrong.

Cerberus

@KitFox Better than American!

I have to make a confession: my native language is Welsh (non-UK).

And why did they add "standard" to American but not to the other dialects?

KitFox

They couldn't identify my region, maybe?

Cerberus

No.

It's just one of their (few) options for dialects.

> Among native English speakers of your age and education,
you did as well as or better than:
93%

Bullshit.

Some of those questions kind of sucked.

user116848

@Cerberus Why odd? So "had" is grammatically incorrect if I say it?

Cerberus

17:26

9 mins ago, by Cerberus

@tchrist OK now that I read it again, it sounds perfectly normal. Introspection sucks!! Especially without context.

It's like some sort of cryptogram. I am not creative.

aedia λ

bounces up and down Guess what guess what guess what? I went to Wyoming on vacation and it was super duper amazing!

tchrist

> Our top three guesses for your English dialect:
1. English (England)
2. Australian
3. Scottish (UK)
Our top three guesses for your native (first) language:
1. English
2. Hungarian
3. Swedish

KitFox

@aediaλ hugs

tchrist

Now what have I done wrong? Hungarian??

KitFox

I loved Devil's Tower.

Cerberus

17:29

@Shog9 By the way, I felt that your personal attack on Jez was unnecessary and out of line. Far more flaggable than what he said in chat.

aedia λ

@KitFox Hiiiii!

KitFox

HIIIIIIIII!

He didn't handle the flag, just for the record.

I am so glad you had such fun!

Tell me about it.

perches attentively

aedia λ

I saw Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Park and went on a float ride down the Snake River. AND played board games every evening!

KitFox

@Arrowfar Yes.

MrHen

@Cerberus Are you talking about this:

KitFox

17:31

@aediaλ Oh WOW! That sounds awesome. I want to do that!

MrHen

13

A: Do something about puerile chat flagging

suspension is a very harsh thing that should usually be left to a mod It's a half-hour suspension per flagged post. And it takes at least 6 people or a moderator to make that happen, per flagged post. And that's assuming that other high-rep users or moderators don't decline the flags first. ...

aedia λ

I didn't actually see Devil's Tower because we were staying in Jackson Hole just by the bottom of the Tetons and didn't rent a car.

MrHen

Or is this something else Jez said in chat?

Cerberus

Some of those comments, yes.

"All your contributions suck, just leave the site."

aedia λ

But there was so much available there and with group trips into the parks that we were busy enough without driving anywhere else.

KitFox

17:32

Did you take lots of pictures and eat good food?

Cerberus

Which is a lie anyway.

Shog9

@Cerberus Was not a personal attack. But I'll note that if Jez is sensitive about his chat record, then bringing it up on Meta was a really stupid idea.

MrHen

@Cerberus I missed that comment. :/

KitFox

@Cerberus Not a lie so much as an opinion.

MrHen

@Cerberus Opinions aren't lies, eh?

aedia λ

17:33

The group we went with was Icarus Tours' Teton Con icarustours.com/teton.html

MrHen

Jinx

aedia λ

So many pictures!

Such food!

Shog9

btw, is this what you were referencing @Kit?

Mitch

@MattЭллен or some outcomes will make me feel terrible and others just barely beter than terrible.

KitFox

This? Right now? No, this is happening much later than this morning.

Mitch

17:34

@aediaλ What did you have?

KitFox

;-)

Shog9

@KitFox ha. This topic!

Mitch

Mountain goat hamburgers?

Matt Эллен

@Mitch how do you feel now?

Cerberus

@Shog9 Your behaviour was unacceptable, just so you know.

KitFox

17:35

No. Let me find.

Cerberus

But I have no time for a discussion now.

KitFox

@Cerberus I don't get why you think Shog was out-of-line, but Jez wasn't.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 haha, visiting Colorado is like being a gay teen (or any teen), so much angst.

Shog9

Good. Because this room is not the place anyway - I'm relocating these messages. If you're actually being serious, ping me later.

aedia λ

@Mitch Actually we didn't go out to eat that much, but what we did have was fantastic. Some of the best was getting to go to the Snake River brewpub and try a flight of their beers and a sausage sampler, the steak chuckwagon dinner from a place existing inside Grand Teton National park, and bison burger and deviled eggs with bacon at the hotel

Mitch

17:37

@MattЭллен I feel great now. After the election though... you know it's the chase that's exciting.

Shog9

← 22 messages moved from EL&U 2014 Election

Matt Эллен

@Mitch yeah. I understand

tchrist

Ooh, teleportation.

user116848

@tchrist Yes so whats the difference between them?

Mitch

@MattЭллен You're just saying that to make me feel better.

skullpatrol

17:38

Hi @Shog9

Matt Эллен

@Mitch don't you like feeling better?

tchrist

@Arrowfar I’m not entirely sure.

KitFox

@Shog9 I wish you'd warn me first. mops up goo

skullpatrol

Eww

KitFox

Just a couple of critters caught in the matrix.

Nothing to worry about.

skullpatrol

17:40

I hate the sight of blood.

KitFox

Oh...uh...

skullpatrol

Especially mine

tchrist

@KitFox There are questions up there I should like to hear the answers to.

KitFox

Yeah.

Cerberus

@Shog9 You're suggesting I am not being serious??

Your behaviour is unbelievable.

KitFox

17:41

I think I shall put the kettle on.

skullpatrol

Let him respond people.

tchrist

@Cerberus How?

Cerberus

13 mins ago, by Cerberus

@Shog9 By the way, I felt that your personal attack on Jez was unnecessary and out of line. Far more flaggable than what he said in chat.

KitFox

@tchrist I think had there is wrong.

Cerberus

But I have to hurry, bye!

KitFox

17:43

I don't think you can backshift like that, when it is clearly future.

skullpatrol

!!youtube happy pharrell Williams

Jarvis

►

tchrist

@KitFox Hm

skullpatrol

Mood shifter^^

:-)

KitFox

!!youtube crazy gnarls barkley

Jarvis

17:44

►

KitFox

@skullpatrol I'll jump on that wagon.

tchrist

waits

Johan Larsson

@Jarvis great song

KitFox

@tchrist Whatcha waiting for, sweets?

tchrist

@KitFox Cerb’s elaboration.

skullpatrol

17:47

!!youtube sweets for my sweet sugar for my honey

Jarvis

►

KitFox

@tchrist Oh, he won't. He likes to drop bombs, but he's too busy for the fallout.

Shog9

@Cerberus I think you haven't really given this much thought, and are being - if not flippant - at very least naive about the whole thing. In your defense, you're probably too close to it to be able to see the problem.

aedia λ

is so confused, hides under desk for a little while

tchrist

@KitFox suppresses to the T word

Shog9

17:48

In any case, I'm in a meeting and you need to leave. My offer's open if you care to discuss it later.

KitFox

@tchrist (I don't know what that is)

huddles under desk with @aedia

oerkelens

Our top three guesses for your English dialect:

1. American (Standard)
2. US Black Vernacular / Ebonics
3. Canadian

Our top three guesses for your native (first) language:

1. Norwegian
2. English
3. Dutch

tchrist

@KitFox people who drop bombs

skullpatrol

Teaser not a pleaser?

KitFox

@oerkelens How peculiar.

oerkelens

17:50

So I am possible a black American who was brought up by Norwegian immigrants 8)7

2

Getting an identity crisis here :D

Mitch

@oerkelens They have to order them somehow. They're not telling you the probability of 1 is 98 and the next two are 1 each.

oerkelens

true

They may have 100 guesses, and these three may have a 1.003, 1.002 and 1.001 probability :P

It still makes me wonder

KitFox

I can either watch the live stream in a tiny box and hear it, or I can see it full screen without sound.

oerkelens

Especially the Norwegian

KitFox

Everybody gets Norwegian.

aedia λ

17:59

Our top three guesses for your English dialect:
1. Canadian
2. American (Standard)
3. US Black Vernacular / Ebonics

Our top three guesses for your native (first) language:
1. English
2. Norwegian
3. Swedish

@KitFox Apparently so.

Also it thinks I'm Canadian!

oerkelens

@KitFox That explains it. They have just defined Norwegian as any language they cannot really pinpoint

KitFox

Norwegians are stealthy.

oerkelens

And they hoped that Norwegian would not insult anyone.

Of course, a Swede might not like it

Johan Larsson

Swedes like Norwegians

KitFox

Do you?

Why is that?

MrHen

18:14

@JohanLarsson Unless you live in the US and are of Swedish or Norwegian decent. The various Scandinavian groups like to stir up rivalries for some reason. (Source: Native Minnesotan.)

Johan Larsson

there is a more humorous rivalry going on ime

KitFox

I have Norwegian heritage.

@JohanLarsson Like Canadians and Americans, perhaps?

MrHen

The Swedish v. Norwegian rivalry is mostly a front for the Minnesota v. Wisconsin rivalry, though.

I don't think either state really knows which heritage really belongs to which state. It's all fairly tongue-in-cheek.

Johan Larsson

Norwegians also think of Swedes like Americans think of Mexicans. The poor neighbor who comes and do the work they don't want to do.

KitFox

The cat is kneading on my stomach.

Johan Larsson

18:18

@KitFox no idea but likely

MrHen

@JohanLarsson Haha, that's hilarious. I have family that live in Sweden; I'll have to ask them about that the next time I speak with them.

@KitFox That is what cats are known for.

KitFox

I don''t think that's true.

Johan Larsson

@MrHen It is due to high unemployment among young in Sweden in combination with oil billions and low unemployment in Norway.

MrHen

Btw, I took that word game quiz thing. I was sad that they didn't ask questions related to the various American dialectal differences.

@JohanLarsson Mmk, interesting.

For instance, "Can you put up the groceries?" versus "Can you put away the groceries?"

And, being from Minnesota, we pronounce "oo" all weird. (Apparently. It sounds fine to me.)

But they didn't get into pronunciation, I guess.

KitFox

There was one question where the the answers included "that" or "whom" and my reaction was "the correct answer is who."

MrHen

18:22

Does anyone know of a good pronunciation quiz?

KitFox

Oh. There was one. I can't remember now.

Who posted it?

thinks

I can't think, I'm in a meeting right now.

MrHen

@KitFox "The person ____ checked in last night..."

I think that was the question.

KitFox

That was it.

You shouldn't ever have whom there.

MrHen

Well, not every answer was acceptable anyway.

KitFox

But it should be who, not that.

MrHen

18:24

But I agree. "Whom" seems completely incorrect.

@KitFox "That" is perfectly fine to my ear.

But yes, "who" is most common.

KitFox

It's acceptable, but my preference is who, which wasn't an option.

MrHen

Ngram

aedia λ

@KitFox That one bugged me too!

KitFox

I was annoyed by that.

But I get annoyed by things.

Wow. Meetings via live feed are even more boring than being there.

tchrist

Unsolicited commercial spamvert:

-4

A: What is the origin of the phrase "zero, zip, zilch, nada"?

Idk but wanna fuck??? Im gay and single!!!!!!!!

I swear, it’s like we need to Protect anything with >999 views.

I know Robert Cartaino questions how many Protected questions we have, but otherwise it’s contant mop-up.

c c

18:36

Would you rather say "an inverse to A" or "an inverse of A"?

KitFox

an inverse of A

tchrist

#2

KitFox

I like it when we agree.

You know what's more boring than listening to someone mumbling through our SDLC?

Some other one mumbling through our prospective PMO.

tchrist

Well, the big axe just fell at *(job-1). And of course, the person I talk to the most there lost their head to the guillotine. And there is nothing on the newswire. When a company of hundreds of thousands of employees summarily terminates all contractors and like 15% of employees, you’d think SOMEBODY would notice.

KitFox

I have no idea what this stuff is, why I should be think—oh.

c c

18:38

ok thanks, like you, I just read someone using #1 and that shocked me a little

KitFox

@cc Could be a BrE thing.

@Matt could say.

@tchrist Wow.

You want to do some work here?

tchrist

@KitFox Not into moving.

KitFox

Remote work?

tchrist

Sure, maybe.

KitFox

It's terrifically dysfunctional. You'd love it.

tchrist

18:39

I really wish the newswire would pick this up.

KitFox

Send it out yourself.

Maybe people don't much care about Wizards of the Coast.

;-)

tchrist

My position at WotC was paid only in cards; the one at TSR was actual W2 work.

KitFox

Interesting.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I'd use of, I think. but I'm not sure, because I don't think I'd say "X is an inverse of A", It's say the inverse

Our top three guesses for your English dialect:
1. English (England)
2. Scottish (UK)
3. Welsh (UK)
Our top three guesses for your native (first) language:
1. English
2. Norwegian
3. Swedish

KitFox

Because you would say "shan't".

Matt Эллен

18:43

well, it asked which was more usual

tchrist

1 hour ago, by tchrist

> Our top three guesses for your English dialect:
1. English (England)
2. Australian
3. Scottish (UK)
Our top three guesses for your native (first) language:
1. English
2. Hungarian
3. Swedish

Matt Эллен

so I didn't tick shan't

it didn't ask which was better ;)

tchrist

I think the multiple-tick thing got me.

KitFox

That reminds me, what are some dialectal features of northern British? How can I tell where this guy I know is from?

Robusto

This appears to be a question about marketing ethics, not English. — Robusto 28 secs ago

tchrist

18:45

@Robusto You cannot use those two words together like that.

Robusto

Not even as a deliberate oxymoron?

tchrist

That’s their only place. The more laconic simply say lies.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox which part of the north?

still in England, or further up?

KitFox

The part north of London.

Johan Larsson

@Matt don't you have a game to watch?

KitFox

18:46

Not Scotland.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox ha! I'll let people tell me about it.

@KitFox hmmm. they tend to say glass so it doesn't rhyme with arse

short a

KitFox

This guy sounds Scottish to me, but I wouldn't know Scots from Sheffield.

Matt Эллен

the guy who says lunatic is from New Castle

he's got a scarf on his head

skullpatrol

Pink Floyd says "lunatic"

Matt Эллен

Ozzy Osbourne is from Birmingham

skullpatrol

18:53

Has Oxford produced any "Pink Floyds"?

Matt Эллен

How do you mean?

Radiohead are from Oxford

skullpatrol

Orly?

Matt Эллен

Sean Bean is from Sheffield

I'm trying to think of a famous Cumbrian

hmmm

none of them will be on youtube

Mitch

I got a rock

skullpatrol

as a pet?

!!wiki pet rock

Jarvis

18:56

Pet Rock

Pet Rock were a 1970s collectible conceived in Los Gatos, California by advertising executive Gary Dahl. Development In April 1975, Dahl was in a bar (which is now Beauregard Vineyards Tasting room in Bonny Doon) listening to his friends complain about their pets. This gave him the idea for the perfect "pet": a rock. A rock would not need to be fed, walked, bathed, groomed and would not die, become sick, or be disobedient. He said they were to be the perfect pets, and joked about it with his friends. However, he eventually took the idea seriously, and drafted an "instruction manual" fo...

Robusto

Our top three guesses for your native (first) language:?
1. English
2. Norwegian
3. Swedish

@MattЭллен You can't abridge a Cantabrigian.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox compare Sean Bean to David Tennant's real accent

Mitch

@KitFox yeah that bugged me too. quiz made by somebody who doesn't actually know anything.

KitFox

Mmmm, David Tennant.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto Luckily I wasn't :D

although there are a few bridges in Cambridge

skullpatrol

18:59

20 something

Robusto

Sep 13 '12 at 14:57, by Robusto

I prefer Oxbridge. It's a step up from an ox ford.

user116848

@skullpatrol How can I ask someone from the main site to chat here or on ELL?

c c

@MattЭллен inverse unicity or uniqueness would you say?

Matt Эллен

@Robusto yes. a technological advancement and no mistake

@cc uniqueness

skullpatrol

@Arrowfar ask them politely in a comment

user116848

19:01

@skullpatrol In a comment of the main site you mean?

skullpatrol

yes

user116848

ok

KitFox

@MattЭллен OK, kind of like that, only I don't think he says "aye".

Matt Эллен

@KitFox ?? then he's not from the north of the UK!!

but, OK. sounds like probably somewhere in the northeast

skullpatrol

what's the longest english word made up of all vowels?

KitFox

19:02

@MattЭллен Oh, yeah. I bet that's it then.

Matt Эллен

oh

not as far north as I thought

KitFox

Well, I wasn't the one who said he was from the north. Someone else told me that.

Matt Эллен

ah

KitFox

I thought he sounded Scottish, but mostly it's the way he chokes on words.

Matt Эллен

people in the south call Sheffield the North. People in the North call Sheffield the Midlands. Mostly to wind them up, I think.

KitFox

19:04

He does sounds kind of like Sean Bean though. Not quite.

Matt Эллен

People in the midlands don't care either way

tchrist

@MattЭллен That’s a good pairing. But can you tell Carlisle from Newcastle? I have an acquaintance who says she can, but then, she’s from there.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist I have no idea. I have a hard enough time telling Newcastle from Middlesborough

KitFox

The a sounds too flat in Birmingham.

He's certainly not Londoner.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox you'll have to surreptitiously record his voice and play it for us, so we can judge

Robusto

19:07

Bummingham.

KitFox

Newcastle was similar, and Sheffield seemed very close.

tchrist

@MattЭллен Well yeah, but those are separated on the latitude more than on the longitude as with Carlisle.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox does he call people pet?

that's New Castle

KitFox

Don't think so.

Robusto

@MattЭллен Did you mean Newcastle-upon-Tyne?

Matt Эллен

19:08

@Robusto yes

KitFox

What's Hugh Laurie's?

Robusto

@MattЭллен What is that, East Anglia?

tchrist

@KitFox Etonian, Oxbridge, modified.

Robusto

Or Northumberland?

Matt Эллен

@Robusto now, far more north

Robusto

19:09

Cleveland?

Matt Эллен

I can't think of the county...

Robusto

Looks like E. Yorkshire.

Matt Эллен

Tyne and Wear is the county

Robusto

So the Lake District is Cumbria, or is that Lancashire?

Matt Эллен

yeah, it might be in that bit just above durham

@Robusto yes, Cumbria

maybe both

:16170811 no, Cambridge is far to the south east

Robusto

19:15

I don't see East Anglia on any of these maps.

tchrist

@Robusto You’d think it would be West Anglia.

KitFox

Last day of school! Time for ice cream! Bye!

Matt Эллен

CU!

tchrist

Try Norfolk.

skullpatrol

later

Matt Эллен

19:16

@tchrist yeah, I was going to say. It's the lump with Norfolk and Suffolk in it

tchrist

@MattЭллен Both tricky words to deliver natively to a large public audience. :)

Matt Эллен

:D

Robusto

Hmm, NUT is farther north than I remember. For some reason I thought it was farther south.

skullpatrol

@MattЭллен Why doesn't Cambridge have its county named after it like Oxfordshire?

Matt Эллен

@skullpatrol it does

Robusto

19:19

I've driven there from London, and now I don't recall if we made it on the first day or the second. I know it took half a day just to get out of London.

Matt Эллен

@skullpatrol Cambridgeshire

Robusto

Ah, now it makes sense. We stopped in Scarborough the first night.

And NUT is north of that.

Matt Эллен

aye

Stack Exchange

19:37

Limerick Machine: Vomitting means he guessed wrong

posted on June 19, 2014 by sgdi

In one hand the man held some nuts The other held cigarette butts To tell them apart He’d developed an art He basically went with his guts

Grace Note

19:58

Apparently my native language is most likely Swedish then Dutch before my actual native language.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…