English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Jasper Loy

23:00

@TheodoreBroda I am not a mathematician, I am only a lunatic, lol.

Theodore Broda

@JasperLoy I stand corrected; How do you do, loquacious lunatic?

Jasper Loy

@TheodoreBroda I am trying to get better. It is not a joke that I am mentally ill though.

tchrist

Now look what JBJ went and made me do:

@JanusBahsJacquet A more liberal (and remarkably more complex) pattern yields acinaces, dezincify, ens necessarium, faciendum, lecithotrophic, lectio difficilior, neotocite, ozocerite, panem et circenses, Picentine, psittacine, psocid, sacerdotium, sancta simplicitas, senecio, Sicyonian, tinticite, zincian, zincic, zinciferous, zincify, and zincite, many of which admit either /s/ or /k/. Note that I am not counting “errors” like *demosaicing or *sandfracing and such for demoaicking or sandfracking etc. Me, I’d go for dezinkify to resolve the problem, as with Orkish. — tchrist 4 mins ago

Cerberus

@TheodoreBroda Salve! Nescio de quo nunc loquimur.

Theodore Broda

@JasperLoy I'm sorry; please pardon my levity, I was unaware.

tchrist

23:02

oedgrep '(?x)
<LF>
(?:
    (?! </LF>
      | k
      | qu
      | c [hoau]
    )
. )*
(?<! [cs] )
c [eiy] (?! < )
(?:
    (?! </LF>
      | k
      | qu
      | c [oau]
    )
. )*
</LF>
(?:(?!</IPR>).)*
<IPR>
(?:(?!</IPR>).)*
<IPH> (?:(?!</IPH>).)*
k
(?: & sm+ \. ) ?
(?: & (?: ope
        | shti
        | schwa
      ) \.
 | [ae] & shti \.
 | e
)
(?! [<s] ) '

Cerberus

@tchrist What the...

Jasper Loy

@TheodoreBroda Do you read a lot?

tchrist

@Cerberus Looking for words in English spelled with c and followed by e, i, y but pronounced /k/.

It’s tons easier to find the ones where it just starts the word:

@JanusBahsJacquet Running oedgrep '<LF>[cC][eiy].*<IPH>(&\w+\.)?k' yields the headwords ceilidh, Celt, Celtdom, Celtic, Celticist, Celtish, centum, ceteris paribus, cist, Cymric, cyne-, cynghanedd, and kistvaen. If I get cleverer, I’ll figure out how to find midword occurrences, too. We probably shouldn’t forget Cynewulf either, meaning in this case both his name and his works. — tchrist 45 mins ago

Theodore Broda

@JasperLoy Yes, but mostly nonfiction, both books and periodicals. Why do you ask?

tchrist

It took me a great deal of time to devise the cleverer pattern, as you see from the time stamps.

Plus you have to know their special markup and entities.

Cerberus

23:05

@tchrist The OED had /ki/ or /ke/ for all those words?

tchrist

@Cerberus Opposite. It has /k/ there.

Cerberus

I would pronounce ceteris paribus /s/ in English...but I may be wrong.

tchrist

> ceteris paribus /ˈsiːtərɪs/ (or /ˈsɛt-/, /ˈkeɪt-/) /ˈpærɪbəs/. Also cæteris paribus.

Cerberus

@tchrist Ugh, yes, that was what I meant. I just woke up (at midnight, more or less).

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus Merriam-Webster lists both /s/ and /k/ as acceptable, in this case.

tchrist

23:06

My pattern found the /k/ there.

Cerberus

@tchrist Ah, as an alternative, okay.

tchrist

Muy listo, ¿verdad?

Cerberus

I would say, "you can pronounce any ce/ci as /k/ in a Latin word in English/Dutch, and many people do so".

KitFox

@TheodoreBroda Hello.

tchrist

That’s what many but not all of those are.

Cerberus

23:07

@TheodoreBroda Right, it depends on which pronunciation rules for Latin you use.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus I prefer the /k/, as I like the classical pronunciation better than the anglicized one.

Cerberus

@tchrist In school, we learned Kajkilius, where my mother learned Sesilius.

tchrist

> psocid /ˈsəʊkɪd/, /-sɪd/. Ent.

Etymology: f. mod.L. family name Psocidæ, f. generic name Psocus (J. C. Fabricius Supplementum Entomologiæ Systematicæ (1798) 198), f. Gr. ψώχ-ειν to grind: see -id[entry#3].

A small winged or wingless insect with long, segmented antennæ, belonging to the family Psocidæ or the order Psocoptera, which includes book-lice and other pests feeding on fungi, algæ, cereal products, or decaying vegetable or animal matter.

Jasper Loy

@TheodoreBroda You have a large vocabulary.

tchrist

@Cerberus My mom and I had the same, paired experiences.

Cerberus

23:09

@TheodoreBroda Meh I don't know, I just follow tradition most of the time: in many cases both are OK for me.

@tchrist Well, there you go! I'm sure she also says seteris paribus, where I used to say keteris.

tchrist

@Cerberus Exactly right.

Cerberus

So I am inclined to discount all words from your list that are unadultered Latin or Greek<Latin.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus Even though I say /k/ in ceteris, I say /s/ in cetera.

Cerberus

(Or Greek>Latin: pick whichever notation you prefer.)

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@TheodoreBroda Same here

Cerberus

23:11

@TheodoreBroda Hah, there you go! Yes, I would definitely say setera in English/Dutch.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@tchrist I’m not even going to attempt to decipher that. Not at 1:11 AM.

Cerberus

Greetings.

It's only 1.11, come on!

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet Production code would have comments. But you have to know the unique markup they use, including both tags and entities, not to mention a bit of the layout.

@TheodoreBroda And you have no genius in et hoc genus omne — genau?

Theodore Broda

I generally use the most "classical" Latin or Greek pronunciation that Merriam-Webster (my preferred dictionary) permits. The phoneme /k/ in et cetera would be considered non-standard by any dictionary, so I'm forced to conform to the arbitrary words of English pronunciation.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerb 1:11 is fine. But not for advanced regex. Not (almost) right after a four-hour board meeting.

Cerberus

23:13

@tchrist Same deal.

@JanusBahsJacquet Oh, dear. Poor you. What an hour!

tchrist

@Cerberus So Jeanus or Gaynoose?

Cerberus

@TheodoreBroda Why do you prefer MW?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

That’s what happens when you can’t say no to things (like people asking you to join boards).

Cerberus

@tchrist Hah. I suppose so. But don't make him turn his angry face to you!

tchrist

@Cerberus 01:11 is a minute, not an hour.

@Cerberus I’m referring to et hoc genus omne.

Cerberus

23:15

@tchrist It is an hour in its extended use!

Janus Bahs Jacquet

The seconds feel like minutes at this nightly hour of the day.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus It's the most common dictionary of American English, and the Chicago Manual of Style (my preferred style guide) recommends its usage.

Cerberus

@tchrist I know. But still. He who seeketh a reference, shall find it.

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet Buenas putas madrugadas, and all that.

Cerberus

@TheodoreBroda Why not use a different style book and the OED, hmm?

Not that it matters...

tchrist

23:16

(Yes, it should be just puta as an expletive, but it’s funnier to make it agree.)

Robusto

Seriously, "falsely" exaggerates? Isn't "exaggerates" enough? — Robusto 17 secs ago

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@tchrist Are they playing?!

Theodore Broda

@tchrist I would say this as /ˈɛt ˈhɔk ˈgeˌnʊs ˈɔmˌne/.

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet All I know is that the collocation of puta with madrugada is remarkably high. Like with fucking morning — but when you have a word for the predawn postmidnight period, it is easy to see why it is so often um putanized.

@TheodoreBroda genau

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Oh. So no headbanging, then?

Theodore Broda

23:18

@Cerberus Because I'm not a bloody Briton (bloody was used sarcastically)!

Cerberus

@Robusto I agree, it is pleonastic, or at least...kakistic.

@tchrist I thought you were a morning person. I thought you loved astronomic dawn...

@TheodoreBroda Well, neither am I. But the OED is just...formidable.

tchrist

@Cerberus I arise before dawn.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus Its etymological prowess is unparalleled, I must say.

Cerberus

@tchrist Exactly!

So no putae.

@TheodoreBroda That is actually its weakest point, I would say! At least compared with its international counterparts.

tchrist

Now, how does one put whether he will or nill in the preterite, damn it?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

23:22

Up before the asscrack of the h₂eu̯sōs, eh?

Cerberus

Eos? Aurora?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

“Whether he would or nould”?

tchrist

> Beowulf 967 - Ic hine ne mihte, þa metod nolde, ganges ᵹetwæman.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@cerb Yes, and yes.

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet Right.

Cerberus

23:22

frowns at nould

Robusto

Who is nould?

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Who ever invented rhotacism??

tchrist

@Cerberus There were many other forms historically, but that one at least pairs with would.

Cerberus

It makes no sense to change an s into an r, I tell you.

tchrist

@Robusto Preterite of nill.

Cerberus

23:24

I have no admit I didn't know nill was a verb.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus Of course it does. It makes perfect sense. If you’re a 5th-century-BC (give or take) Latin speaker.

tchrist

> nill /nɪl/, v. Now arch. Forms: (see below).

Etymology: OE. (pres. t.) nylle, nyle, nelle, nele, etc., = OFris. nil, nel(e, nelle, f. ne ne (def#3) (def#a) + wille, wile will v. In the Lindisf. Gosp. the more original forms nwill, nuill also occur. In early use another negative freq. occurs in the sentence.

I intr. To be unwilling, not to will.

1 Const. with infinitive (without to). Sometimes also denoting simple futurity.

a Present tense (and infinitive).

α1st and 3rd sing. 1 nylle, 1, 4 nyle, 1, 3-4 nile, 4-6 nil, nyl(l, 5 nylle, nille, 5- nill. 2nd sing. 1, 4-5 nylt, 3-6 nilt (Or…

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus Consider willy-nilly (= will he/nill he?)

Robusto

@JanusBahsJacquet Actually, that kind of describes @Cerberus.

tchrist

@Cerberus Really??

Cerberus

23:24

@JanusBahsJacquet But all languages that I know have rhotacism somewhere! Why is it so universal? Is it even Proto-Indo-European?

tchrist

Will he or nill he.

jinky

Cerberus

@Robusto Hey, I am more of a 1st-century boy.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus No, not PIE. It’s everywhere in Latin and Old Norse, but not that common in general elsewhere, is it?

Robusto

@Cerberus What? What about all those stoic Roman values?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Oh yeah, Old English had it too, of course.

Jasper Loy

23:25

@Cerberus You travelled through time to the future?

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes, see, I didn't know that it came from will he! I assumed it was a more recent, playful expression of sorts.

I did wonder, actually. But never looked it up.

@Robusto I am an Epicurean. Lucretius lived in the 1st century (BC, of course).

tchrist

@Cerberus But it was in Old Frisian! That’s like almost Elder Nadirish!

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Lovers beware: “Nil by mouth” is quite different to “Nill by mouth”. The end result is the same, but one is prescribed by doctors, the other just by bad manners.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet It is quite common in the Germanic and Greek languages, I believe?

Robusto

@Cerberus So . . . no children then, no "hostages to fortune"?

Cerberus

23:27

Cf. freeze/frieren.

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet They just write N.P.O. on the door. The plebes don’t decode.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerb Greek doesn’t have rhotacism? S -> h (mostly).

Cerberus

Dutch vriezen, gevroren.

Robusto

Are the Frisians just cold then?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Yeah, West Germanic had it too (separately from Old Norse, incidentally)

Cerberus

23:27

@JanusBahsJacquet Huh I thought it also had rhotacism...let me think, I could be mistake. Yes, s → h is very common.

@Robusto Hmm is that a Stoic expression? I consider them religious lunatics, to be honest...

tchrist

There are historical /r/ to /s/ instances in many places. I can’t explain it.

Cerberus

That's rhotacism.

Only between vowels, mostly.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

/r/ -> /s/?

Robusto

@Cerberus I thought you knew about Epicureans. You never read about Epicurus?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

That’s backwards

Cerberus

23:29

Naaah.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Where does that occur? I can’t think of any places …

Robusto

@Cerberus books.google.com/…

Cerberus

@Robusto If this is an Epicurean quotation, you should know by know that my brain cannot remember things?

Robusto

@Cerberus You always remember your pedantry.

Cerberus

As do you yours.

tchrist

23:30

@JanusBahsJacquet Yeah. But I was thinking of colligō > cosecha, so that is something else.

Robusto

Feb 15 '11 at 19:22, by Martha

Somewhere I have a button that says something like "I'm not anal, I'm a pedant. There's a difference. Let me explain it to you..."

Cerberus

Hehe.

Exactly!

tchrist

She spells peasant oddly.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Pedantry is not stored in the memory bits of the brain. It’s right in the limbic system for easy access.

Theodore Broda

@Cerberus But Greek polytheism is more than two-thousand years old; has all your time in the drab Fields of Asphodel made your three separate memories fade?

tchrist

23:31

And anality is not?

Robusto

pedantry -> red panty

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Anality = buggerdom?

tchrist

Aye. :)

Robusto

Bugger the DOM.

Jasper Loy

Panty? LOL

tchrist

23:32

Or whatever the opposite of dom is.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Robusto Yes, that too!

@tchrist Slave

Robusto

What do HTML mavens drink? DOM Perignon!

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Or sub

Robusto

Deo Optimo Maximo!

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Robusto What do HTML mavens like me (who don’t drink alcohol) drink, then?

Jasper Loy

23:33

Should men wear bras too? Hmm.

Robusto

@JanusBahsJacquet You're on your own.

@JasperLoy Go for it. You know you want to.

tchrist

The proper study of pedants is pedology, not paedology. And no, those are not the same.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@JasperLoy Depends on the size of their moobs.

tchrist

@JasperLoy Depends on cup size.

Stop it!

Janus Bahs Jacquet

:D

Robusto

23:34

@tchrist I thought a paedometer was an instrument used to count your missteps.

4

tchrist

@Robusto That’s just creepy.

Robusto

Yaaassss.

Cerberus

@TheodoreBroda Well, the Hades is not technically Greece!

Robusto

You started it.

Cerberus

And, yes, I am far older than 2000 years.

> It is assumed that the Altaic languages had a certain sound, a sonorant or fricative, which later was preserved in one part of the Turkic languages, but the other part reflected it as the alternative. Correspondence r/l ↔ š/s/z in the Turkic languages are quite numerous.

medica

23:35

@tchrist I'm about to order Wolfe, and I'm a bit confused. Did you recommend all four of his books? The Shadow..., The Claw..., The Sword... and The Citadel...? Or just The Citadel of the Autarch

Robusto

@Cerberus It is these days.

Cerberus

From a translated source...

@Robusto No, just dig a hole and you'll see...

tchrist

@medica Depends on the seller. It comes in a 4-volume version, a 2-volume version, and a 1-volume version. But Citadel is the 4th.

terdon

@Robusto Oy!

tchrist

It’s one story that was published in four parts.

And later, in two.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

23:36

@Cerberus Well, /z/ -> /r/ is not that long a distance to travel if your /r/ is more of a voiced fricative than a trill (which is not uncommon).

medica

@tchrist Should I just start with the Shadow? It the first chapter looked pretty good.

Jasper Loy

16 will get you 20 is tchrist's favourite phrase, lol.

terdon

Wow. I just finished reading the backlog. What a typically incomprehensible set of conversations.

tchrist

@medica Yes, you must start with Shadow.

Theodore Broda

@JanusBahsJacquet Are you an HTeeMLtotaler?

tchrist

23:37

Or don’t bother starting at all.

medica

@tchrist OK, am ordering now. Thank you!

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet A voiced fricative? But then you have a different place of articulation?

Robusto

@terdon You, sir, are a masochist.

Cerberus

@terdon Thank you!!

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@TheodoreBroda Yup. (I’ll refrain from voicing the slight graon that escaped me at that pun.)

@Cerberus Not very different.

terdon

23:39

@Robusto Was worth a giggle.

Theodore Broda

@JanusBahsJacquet Maybe you should just drink a cup of java (script).

terdon

@Cerberus I knew you'd take it as a compliment. I'm also pretty sure it was meant as one.

tchrist

Shadow begins “It is possible I already had some presentiment of my future. The locked and rusted gate that stood before us, with wisps of river fog threading its spikes like the mountain paths, remains in my mind now as the symbol of my exile.”

Whereas Citadel ends:

> It is that the ability to traverse hours and aeons possessed by these ships may be no
more than the natural consequence of their ability to penetrate interstellar and
even intergalactic space, and to escape the death throes of the universe; and
that to travel thus in time may not be so complex and difficult an affair as we
are prone to suppose. It is possible that from the beginning Severian had some
presentiment of his future.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Then which r are you thinking of? When it is more like a fricative, it occurs gutturally, right? At least for me...

tchrist

Note the first and last sentences.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

23:40

@Cerb It’s quite close from an alveolar approximant/fricative to a z.

Cerberus

@terdon Then we'll take it as one! We must live up to our maxim.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus Not the guttural one, no. The one they have in Faeroese, and some Turkish speakers, too. Or quite similar to some types of English r.

@TheodoreBroda Nah, don’t drink coffee either. (Yes, I know, I’m weird.)

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Oh, that r...but isn't that rare? Do you think that r existed in proto-Italic and/or -Germanic?

medica

@tchrist Yes... an itinerant torturer's apprentice. Intriguing concept.

@tchrist Nice!

tchrist

Yes, a roving headsman who goes from town to town implementing the local authorities’ orders.

Theodore Broda

23:42

@JanusBahsJacquet I don't drink coffee or alcohol, either. But I'm barely proficient in HTML

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus It’s not rare at all. The Proto-Germanic /r/ was probably a tap or trill, but in Primitive Norse and in some stage of West Germanic, it almost certainly went through a stage of being /ɹ/ or something similar.

medica

@tchrist How many times did you read this cycle?

tchrist

Whose name is Severian. How coincidental! :)

@medica Like five.

medica

@tchrist :)

Wow! Good recommendation, then! I should have them in two days!

tchrist

And his carnificial execution sword is named Terminus Est, or that is the conceit of Wolfe’s “translation”.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

23:44

@TheodoreBroda I’ll admit I’m only just conversational in Java myself. JavaScript, better … but still an amateur. Given my taste in beverages, I should be a master in Cocoa—but I’m not.

tchrist

Why the hell does Safari redline most of my more interesting words? Stoopid toy dickerary.

@JanusBahsJacquet Run run run away.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Because you haven’t (for whatever odd reason) turned off that annoying spellcheck.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Ahh OK, so that would explain it, then. Did this also happen in Italic?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@tchrist Away from what?

Cerberus

I wonder why that r has mostly disappeared from Germanic.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

23:45

@Cerberus Basically, yeah.

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet Java. It is the Cobol of our day, but worse.

Cerberus

I thought the only reason we had it in Dutch was because of French, but perhaps it is from an older Germanic phase?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

It tends not to be a very stable sound. For some reason, /ɾ/ is more stable, cross-linguistically.

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet Well, I like the way it spellchecks like six languages for me.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet It does sound clearer.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

23:46

@tchrist Oh. Yes. I don’t like it much, either, so I don’t plan to invest more of my time on it.

terdon

@tchrist At the same time? Without switching layouts?

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet Good. The problem is that so much NLP work has Java stuff.

@terdon Yes!

Cerberus

A very subjective judgement, I know: but I don't have /ɾ/ myself while I do have (the weak form of) /ɹ/, and yet I find the tap much "clearer".

Janus Bahs Jacquet

(Then again, I’m quite fond of PHP, which so many people over the years have told me is almost akin to high treason …)

tchrist

Low.

Theodore Broda

23:48

@JanusBahsJacquet PHP is a recursive acronym; therefore I don't like it.

terdon

@tchrist Nice!

Janus Bahs Jacquet

I don’t plan on doing much (if any) neurolinguistic programming (if that was what you meant by NLP), so that’s all right with me.

tchrist

Low as with Northrop Frye's ironic mode of literature.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@TheodoreBroda That’s one of the reasons I like it. :-)

Cerberus

@TheodoreBroda Very good reason!

tchrist

23:49

@JanusBahsJacquet Well, I’m talking about computational linguistics.

You could waste your whole life there and make little progress, or so it sometimes feels.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Don’t plan to do much with that, either. ;-)

tchrist

Good.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How do you feel about this? "Date rape" as fashion.

> The JWT Singapore ad agency thinks women need a guardian angel to prevent sexual harassment and violence. Asked to create an educational campaign about date rape, the company developed a $120 halo-shaped pendant designed to give women a socially acceptable way to stop an interaction.
Pressing the central button will trigger a call to the wearer’s phone, and in case of a "threat to her personal safety," holding it sends an emergency text message with location coordinates to a designated contact.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

I’ll just plod along with my PIE and pre-PIE reconstructions, and then do graphic design and web stuff on the side. Much more satisfying. :-)

tchrist

A well-plodden path, that.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

23:51

Verily

Robusto

@Cerberus Back when I was in advertising I'd have gloated about Thompson having trouble.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

(Which reminds me that I really ought to have been revising tonight … I still have a good ten pages of Pwyll Pendeuic Dyuot to decipher and translate before next Tuesday.)

Cerberus

@Robusto Thompson?

Robusto

@JanusBahsJacquet Oh, right. That's way more important than idle chit-chat in The Incomprehensible Room.

@Cerberus As in J. Walter.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Manuscript?

@Robusto Sorry I don't know who that is.

tchrist

23:53

@terdon The problem though is that it doesn’t know which language you meant. So departement marche bien en français but not so hot in Englisc.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Robusto Well, it will (probably) affect the grade I get for my exam, so yes. ;-)

Robusto

@Cerberus jwt.com/en/jwalterthompson

terdon

@tchrist Does it attempt to guess by context?

Cerberus

@tchrist My spelling checker in Firefox automatically switches languages, or it is supposed to.

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet And you forgot Cymric! :)

Janus Bahs Jacquet

23:54

@tchrist Nej då. Departement would be Swedish. En français, il faudrait écrire département. ;-)

tchrist

@terdon I don’t think so.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@tchrist !

So I did!

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet There is that.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Good heavens.

Cerberus

I sometimes add words that I often use, but I'm happy enough with a couple of red words in a random chat line.

KitFox

23:55

> JWT is the world’s best-known marketing communications brand

tchrist

@Cerberus No, it’s the blue ones that make you blanche, not the red ones.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@tchrist Just don’t start with the Norwegians. Departemang is not pretty.

KitFox

hahaha. Funny because my reaction was also who?

tchrist

@JanusBahsJacquet I’ve had better experiences with Danes, personally. :)

Cerberus

@Robusto Ah, I see. I don't know much about marketing...

Janus Bahs Jacquet

23:56

@Cerberus Yes, manuscript, but thankfully with a transcription. Only a direct transcription, though, so I still have to guesstimate where they left out spaces or didn’t indicate hyphenation, etc.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Do the Swedes pronounce the t? We do in Dutch (it depends on the word, I think).

@JanusBahsJacquet Ah, too bad. Transcribing is fun!

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus Nope. -ment is [mɑŋ] in Swedish

Cerberus

@tchrist What does blue mean?

tchrist

Transcription is when you move your ℞ from one apothecary to the next.

3

Janus Bahs Jacquet

The actual manuscript isn’t too bad, so it’s fairly legible.

tchrist

23:57

@Cerberus As in films.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Ah OK. In Dutch, for example, engagement is properly /ãgaʒəment/.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@tchrist In China, it’s the yellow ones.

@Cerberus That’s just bizarre. Keep one nasalisation and ditch the other? Weirdos.

Cerberus

@tchrist Blue in films?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

We say [ɑŋɡæʃəˈmɑŋ].

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet I know! Dutch really is a mongrel.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…