English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

01:16

@tchrist: Toughest Hobbit quiz ever. No cheating!

Cerberus

01:28

> You got 4 out of 10 (40%) correct

Ouch! But everyone knows I suck at trivia.

The last time I read The Hobbit was a decade or two ago.

Robusto

@Cerberus Ha! Even I beat you. (50%)

Cerberus

Even you.

Unbearable shame.

And they won't even show me the right answers unless I log into fucking Facebook.

Robusto

@Cerberus You can create your own account independently of Facebook.

Cerberus

Just to view the correct answers?

Robusto

At least you don't have to log into Facebook.

Cerberus

01:32

No matter, I have closed the tab.

Yes.

Appu

01:59

Hey everyone!

Cerberus

Hi!

Appu

Can I use the sentence "I am feeling lethargic today" for condition like lack of energy in body?

Or can anyone suggest that suits better than this?

Cerberus

Yes, that would be OK, although "I am lethargic today" is probably even better.

Appu

okay thanks Cerberus, I wanted to mention it as a reason for leave, but I ended up just using not feeling well( Quite common usage by everyone). Anyways, What have you been up to?

Cerberus

@Appu Hmm "lethargic" sounds less like a good reason to go home than "not feeling well", so you went with the better option!

"Lethargic" is almost like "I'm not in the mood for work today"...

Appu

02:12

@Cerberus Oh! o_O But then what is the word for lacking energy like sometimes we usually feel so tired or lack of sleep such that we cannot go for work apart from using not feeling well? Because I like to use different sentences sometimes rather than using routine things ;)

Cerberus

02:28

@Appu My point is just that "tired" is often not considered a valid excuse for skipping work.

If that is not a problem, then "lethargic" or "exhausted" or "sleep-deprived" could work in your situation.

tchrist

02:53

@Robusto Oh please, give me something hard wouldja? Nothing on King Bladorthin or King Oropher or Rhosgobel or the black emperors or Messrs Grubb, Grubb, and Burrows or the wild Were-worms!

And give me something that takes a minute to answer, too, while you’re at it.

Robusto

Hehe. I figured you'd ace it.

tchrist

Troll sat alone on his seat of stone, And munched and mumbled a bare old bone; For many a year he had gnawed it near, For meat was har
d to come by.
Done by!
Gum by!
In a case in the hills he dwelt alone, And meat was hard to come by.
Up came Tom with his big boots on.
Said he to Troll: 'Pray, what is yon?
For it looks like the shin o' my nuncle Tim, As should be a-lyin' in graveyard.
Caveyard!
Paveyard!
This many a year has Tim been gone, And I thought he were lyin' in graveyard.'
'My lad,' said Troll, 'this bone I stole.

That’s how you know that Tim was a-missin’.

I’ve always wondered about the were-worms myself.

Robusto

You can always feel the rhythm in Tolkien's songs.

Appu

@Cerberus Okay.

tchrist

That might be one of the songs he himself recorded; I forget.

Because I can hear it in my head.

Most of them were trivial, although a few you could get to the right answer by the process of elimination.

Most I simply remembered without thinking.

Also, some of the answer were “wrong”, but I knew what they wanted.

Robusto

03:00

I haven't read The Hobbit since high school.

tchrist

For example, the goblins never howled about “Orcrist”.

They did not use its Sindarin name.

They called Glamdring (Foe-Hammer) “Beater” and Orcrist they called “Biter’.

Similarly, Gollum never said hands; he said handses.

And his last guess was string or nothing, which cheated again.

Robusto

Heh.

tchrist

The stolen cup is of course from Beowulf.

In the early drafts of The Hobbit, Thorin was called Gandalf and Gandalf was called Bladorthin. Then Tolkien realized that the Wand-elf had to be a wizard not a dwarf, so he switched them and left Bladorthin as a forgotten king for whom the dwarves had made armor long ago. You can see the lingering Sindarin thin = grey element in the name, though, as would have befit the wizard. Also present in Mithrandir, mithril, Thingol, and the Ered Mithrin — the grey mountains.

I don’t know who the Wind-elf was, though.

 Veigr ok Gandalfr,
 Vindalfr, Þráinn,
 Þekkr ok Þorinn,
 Þrór, Litr ok Vitr,
 Nár ok Nýráðr,
 nú hefi ek dverga,
 Reginn ok Ráðsviðr,
 rétt um talða.

That -r was a nominative inflection in Old Norse.

As in fact was -n, which you’ll’ve seen in Ódinn.

From the Dwarrowtal, of course.

Or however you wish the Tally of the Dwarves translated.

Snurri’s Dvergatal in the Völuspá

Poetic Edda and Prose Edda alike in this.

That version doesn’t translate the Norse names, though.

Most have common-word translations.

Norðri ok Suðri,
 Austri ok Vestri,

Those are the four winds, for example.

I’ll let you guess which are which. :)

OFFS!

Robusto

Obviously North, South, East and West. But Austri is south in another tongue.

tchrist

The background gif they use on that page is one of those trick 3D ones where you change the focus point.

@Robusto An austral one, at that.

No oysterreichs.

Whence many a pearl do come.

Robusto

03:17

Full fathom five thy father lies

tchrist

And they didn’t translate Eikinskjaldi.

Poor Þorinn.

Robusto

Off to bed. Laters.

tchrist

If the look carefully enough, you will note that Tolkien also took the name of the High King of the Noldor, Fëanor’s father Finwë/Finweg/Finn from the poem.

Night.

skullpatrol

03:34

Later

Johan Larsson

06:09

> Engineers have n^2 communication costs. From this

Dariusz

07:07

what's the proper noun for a transport insurance entry, declaration, the information you submit to the insurer to get the insurance?

Anonymous

10:07

I did well on the hobbit quiz, but because I was reading chat messages in reverse order, I had a couple answers placed in my short-term memory by the time I saw the URL

Anonymous

And others I think I got right only by luck.

skullpatrol

10:34

!!wiki hobbit

KitSox

Hobbit

Hobbits are a fictional, diminutive, humanoid race who inhabit the lands of Middle-earth in J. R. R. Tolkien’s fiction. Hobbits first appeared in the novel The Hobbit, in which the main protagonist, Bilbo Baggins, is the titular hobbit. The novel, The Lord of the Rings, includes more Hobbits as major characters, Frodo Baggins, Samwise Gamgee, Peregrin Took and Meriadoc Brandybuck, as well as several other minor hobbit characters. Hobbits are also briefly mentioned in The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. According to the author in the prologue to The Lord of the Rings, Hobbits are "...

skullpatrol

@snailboat have you read this^?

Anonymous

@skullpatrol Um, the Wikipedia article titled Hobbit? No

Anonymous

Is there something in it I should read?

skullpatrol

Nah, just a suggestion, if you're interested :-)

Anonymous

10:42

Ahh, well, thank you!

Mitch

12:16

@Robusto I got -2 out of 10. I gave the wrong username and password to facebook.

skullpatrol

-20%

Matt Эллен

or 80%

think about it

skullpatrol

True, if you interpret "out of" as subtraction.

But then you wouldn't need to use -2, correct?

think about it

Matt Эллен

if you use that interpretation, then 2 would make more sense

skullpatrol

yes

Matt Эллен

12:24

but I wasn't

skullpatrol

oh?

Matt Эллен

yeah

skullpatrol

please elaborate

Matt Эллен

oh. well, I decided that percents wrap around

skullpatrol

icic

that works too

0% = 100%

Matt Эллен

12:30

that way, having 0 of anything means you have all of everything

I'm rich!

skullpatrol

:D

@MattЭллен wanna hear a neat puzzle, involving percents?

Matt Эллен

OK

skullpatrol

I guy finds $5 on the road and picks it up, he has $5 already in his pocket. By what percent has his wealth increased?

Matt Эллен

100%

skullpatrol

Correct.

Alraxite

12:36

That assumes that that $5 was his entire wealth.

tchrist

It also assumes that he doesn’t return the lost $5 to its owner.

Matt Эллен

and that the dollars are the same currency and that holding money is equivalent to adding it to your wealth

skullpatrol

So, now he puts it in his pocket and walks home, but when he gets home he finds he has lost the found $5. By what percent has his wealth decreased?

tchrist

Matt Эллен

and that the money he finds is still valid currency

@skullpatrol 50%

tchrist

12:39

@skullpatrol Over what time period?

skullpatrol

@MattЭллен Correct. He says to himself "I'm still up 50%"

Matt Эллен

lol

tchrist

It would be interesting to check his pocketses for pennies that it might have incurred during its stay there.

Especially if they were fleece pocketses.

For thus do the banks fleece us of our own interest.

Matt Эллен

in their own

skullpatrol

The guy is 50% wealthier than what he started with.

Anonymous

12:45

@skullpatrol Are we working mod 50% instead of mod 100% now?

Alraxite

He still lost 100 per cent of what he originally had started with.

tchrist

Actually, it was his own $5 that fell out of his pocket the first time he walked the road, which he met on his return trip coming back the same way. It again fell out of the hole in his pocket before he got home.

Matt Эллен

He'll never learn

He'd save money sewing up the hole with the $5 note.

tchrist

That would be money laundering.

Matt Эллен

:D

Anonymous

12:46

I've never used a five-dollar bill to sew anything before

tchrist

I have.

Good service.

Matt Эллен

I suppose he could trying sowing or suing with the $5

skullpatrol

The moral of the story is beware of percent of change.

tchrist

I’ve sewn up good service by handing the bellboy a $5 tip.

A $5 is not made of paper. It is made of the same stuff as his pocket likely is: cotton and linen.

skullpatrol

percent of change/100 = change in price/original price

tchrist

12:51

So the Female Engineer complains to Dilbert that she only makes 80% of what he makes.

She asks him, why do you make 20% more me? Dilbert replies, I don’t: I make 25% more. And that’s why.

Matt Эллен

ouch

Alraxite

He does make 20% of what he makes more than her.

tchrist

That wasn’t what she said.

Alraxite

What she said was ambiguous.

tchrist

Why do you make 20% more than me is not ambiguous. It is wrong.

A $5 bill has 300% the cotton content that it has linen content.

Alraxite

12:55

It is ambiguous because it fails to specify 20% of what.

tchrist

How much did the linen cost?

Why do you make 20% more than I make?

Not ambiguous.

Wrong.

Matt Эллен

because of exchange rates

tchrist

Did you know that most people go through their entire lives never realizing that linen comes from linum?

Matt Эллен

I didn't know that. what is linum?

tchrist

We no longer have linoleum floors nor flaxen hair.

For they have forgotten its color.

Matt Эллен

12:57

isn't flax green?

oh, the flowers are blue

skullpatrol

!!wiki linen

KitSox

Linen

Linen is a textile made from the fibers of the flax plant, Linum usitatissimum. Linen is labor-intensive to manufacture, but when it is made into garments, it is valued for its exceptional coolness and freshness in hot weather. Many products are made of linen: aprons, bags, towels (swimmers, bath, beach, body and wash towels), napkins, bed linens, linen tablecloths, runners, chair covers, and men's & women's wear. The word "linen" is of West Germanic origin and cognates with the Latin name for the flax plant linum, and the earlier Greek λινόν (linon). This word history has given rise...

tchrist

X = 8 deg 54' 48.59" N, Y = 107 deg 1' 39.05" W, Z = 9071' 6"

AF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8G IF-ED @ f/8 for 1/2000s ISO 400, distance 20"

t = 2011-07-06 18:07:12 UTC

Linum lewisii variety lewisii. Synonym: Adenolinum lewisii. (Blue Flax) Linaceae (Flax Family)

I’ll let you look up the coordinates yourself.

It’s one of my favorite shots from one of my favorite places.

Make that GPS Position : 38 deg 54' 48.59" N, 107 deg 1' 39.05" W

Damn it, it won’t do topos.

It’s right by Oh-By-Joyful Creek.

tchrist

13:36

Depth of field is something like a barleycorn or less.

A smidgen in the common tongue.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist it works for google maps if you take out the units and just leave the compass points

tchrist

@MattЭллен I tried this but it failed to show me terrain. What do you mean?

Matt Эллен

how do you mean "terrain"? the satellite view shows stuff.

it does an isometric view too

tchrist

Topology, the iso lines.

Matt Эллен

oh

no, I guess you can't get that

tchrist

13:42

They did away with in the their "new" maps "product".

It's the greyed-out Terrain button/label/choice.

I’d swear I’d managed it before.

Bingo!!

Try this.

Matt Эллен

no iso lines for me

tchrist

Matt Эллен

if I zoom in the terrain disappears

tchrist

Let me try to remember how I got there.

Matt Эллен

tchrist

13:48

You have to click the upper right button that cycles through Satellite and Map.

Matt Эллен

one level zoom too much

tchrist

When you are on the Map view, and at a particular zoom, it gives you the Terrain option back again.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist oh. I'm using the new maps thing. that's gone

ah, yes, that's better

tchrist

Works now, right?

Matt Эллен

yeah

tchrist

13:51

Really much cooler view.

Finally shows you how steep it is there.

The satellite view is 2D.

That’s my neighborhood.

With my home at the A.

See now why the sun disappears on me 90 minutes before sunset? :)

Matt Эллен

:D yeah

tchrist

A lion killed a deer a few days ago around 3:30am out in the greenbelt behind my house, at the other edge about 150 yards from me. It of course didn’t eat it all at once, and once it had left to go torporize, er nap, a band of wily coyotes came for the leftovers. Then the lion returned and chased off the pack.

Like having National Geographic in your back yard.

The dotted lines are footpaths or bikepaths.

Matt Эллен

nice

meer2kat

Sometimes when I'm in a spinning chair, I lean forward and stretch my arms out and pretend I can fly.

tchrist

There’s a difference, but I don’t think you can tell at that zoom. We have many non-car paths though.

meer2kat

14:03

Does no one else do that?

tchrist

Ahah, you can turn on Bike Paths in the options.

Try that Matt, and look at how stuff pops out.

Matt Эллен

not many paths up the mountains :D

tchrist

There are a lot of unofficial “social” footpaths it doesn’t show, but it nicely illustrates how much more bike friendly my neighborhood is than car friendly.

Matt Эллен

yes

tchrist

So the issue is that at the Terrain zoom max, you can’t see the unmapped footpaths up the mountain.

If you switch back to satellite and zoom more, you can vaguely see them. They are hella steep though.

Look here and switch to Satellite, then zoom in if necessary till you see the little footpaths climbing up the mountain.

Behind Silver Lake Ditch, which runs behind Wonderland Lake.

Ok, so that’s the trick then. You cannot get a Terrain view when zoomed way in.

And the zoomed satellite utterly flattens the depth aspect, just like a very long lens can.

Which in a sense, it is.

Matt Эллен

14:10

That under represents just where cyclists are willing to go :D

i.e. where ever the f they want

tchrist

Hah.

The solid green should be bike-only.

The dotted green I’m not sure what mean.

Matt Эллен

yes, there are paths parallel to the main roads that are cycle only (in theory, but pedestrians walk everywhere)

tchrist

Matt Эллен

@tchrist bicycle friendly roads

tchrist

@MattЭллен Ahah, that makes sense. I see them on mine. It means there is a “separate” bike lane.

The clip above shows the difference between bike paths and foot-only paths.

As well as the unnamed footpath heading off north in the eastern part.

The elevation delta is painful on the footpath heading west.

Matt Эллен

14:16

I did wonder

the satelite doesn't really give the right impression

tchrist

There, that’s the Hogback Ridge loop. Look at the topo lines.

You rise about 500' very quickly.

We do have some very nice bike paths that have no car competition to the east of Broadway towards the Boulder Reservoir and Coot Lake.

Our multiuse trails all say whether they are foot and/or bike and/or hoof.

The threeways also have a little yield diagram.

Bike yields to foot and foot yields to hoof.

Bike also yields to hoof.

Some of those things they’re calling roads are not paved.

Matt Эллен

ah

tchrist

Like yours, the university proper is almost all bikepaths not roads.

Those aren’t dotted, you’ll note.

Colorado has like 3–4 times the unpaved roads that it has paved ones in total milage.

Matt Эллен

that's a lot of dirt track

tchrist

Yes and no.

Many of them are graded.

But many of them are not.

Those that are not, well, they can be tough.

And the grading only last so long.

We have a lot of 4WD-only roads, it is true.

Also a great many “summer-only” roads.

Most of our loveliest drives are summer only.

Matt Эллен

14:33

indeed. I can't imagine ascending such steep slopes when they're covered in snow

or pratically swamp

tchrist

Not much swamp hereabouts.

But 20 yards of snow will do the trick.

Or even 5.

They have these 30' poles along some roads as a guide for the snowplows.

If they can’t see the poles, they don’t try. :)

Ok, maybe they’re 20'. But they’re way tall.

Matt Эллен

:D

tchrist

In Gothic, the little seasonal town near where I took the picture of the flax, there are buildings with second-storey entrances. For the winter months.

So it is a lovely balcony by summer, and the only door you can get in during the winter.

Usually only 1–3 folks stay there year-round.

It’s a biological research town, mostly.

Rocky Mountain Biological Laboratory

The Rocky Mountain Biological Laboratory (aka RMBL - pronounced 'rumble') is a Colorado high-altitude biological field station located near Crested Butte, in the West Elk mountains) It offers courses for undergraduate students - including National Science Foundation funded REU students and provides support for researchers from universities and colleges. RMBL was founded in 1928 on the remains of an abandoned mining town in Gothic, Colorado. Approximately 160 people are in residence there during the summer field season. Over 1200 scientific publications have been based on work from...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist It must suck on those days when the snow only goes half-way up to the door. Watch out for that first step!

Cerberus

Good day.

tchrist

14:48

The Rumblers stay only till they burn the Grump, a sort of wicker-man, during the Vinatok festival at the equinox. It’s kind of a mini-Burning Man thing.

Matt Эллен

Good day.

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, you can tunnel.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен How's the weather today?

tchrist

Cold, no doubt.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus pleasant. it was raining last night. seems OK right now

Cerberus

14:51

Oh, rain.

Haven't seen that.

A dull sky now.

tchrist

Vinotuk is an invented pagan festival, but it is great fun. And it has the Corn Maidens.

Matt Эллен

(I had to put my spectacles on to see the windows from here)

tchrist

I heard thunder last night.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist Corn maidens? Like iron maidens, but tastier?

Cerberus

(Naturally.)

@tchrist So they admit it, for once...

Matt Эллен

14:52

@Cerberus we had a lot on Monday night

Cerberus

Hmm I don't remember.

I think our Monday night was dry.

tchrist

@MattЭллен These Corn Maidens.

@Cerberus Of course. It is just a joke.

Cerberus

"Pagans" are really good at the invention of tradition...

Matt Эллен

@tchrist cute!

tchrist

This is the Corn Lily that they wear as skirts:

Veratrum californicum

Veratrum californicum (California corn lily, white or California false hellebore) is a poisonous plant native to mountain meadows at 3500 to 11,000ft elevation in southwestern North America, the Sierra Nevada and Rocky Mountains, and as far north as Washington State. It prefers quite moist soil, and can cover large areas in dense stands near streams or in wet meadows. Many inch-wide flowers cluster along the often-branched top of the stout stem; they have 6 white tepals, a green center, 6 stamens, and a 3-branched pistil (see image below). The buds are tight green spheres. The heavily vei...

Better Corn Lily pix.

So may poisonous plants up there.

Hemlock, though their umbels be tall and fair.

Monkshood (Aconitum) and larkspur (Delphineum) are also deadly.

Cerberus

14:57

Is larkspur the same as leeuwerik?

Matt Эллен

no, according to wikipedia

leeuwerik is a bird, larkspur is a plant

tchrist

Ridderspoor (Delphinium)

Ridderspoor (Delphinium) is een geslacht uit de ranonkelfamilie (Ranunculaceae). De botanische naam is afkomstig van het Latijnse woord voor dolfijn, omdat de knoppen van de bloem in de verte iets weg hebben van een dolfijn. Er zijn zo'n 250 soorten, die voorkomen in de gematigde streken van het noordelijk halfrond. De planten houden van een goed doorlatende grond en staan in de zomer graag in de volle zon, en ze zijn bestand tegen koude winters. Ridderspoor is erg gevoelig voor schimmelinfecties als meeldauw. Men doet er dus goed aan om de plant tijdig te behandelen met een anti-schimme...

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…