English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2014-04-15 (page 1 of 2)

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Kyriakos Kyritsis

03:21

bu

5 hours later…

Jez

08:25

Ouch. I just had to restore from a last known good configuration to get Windows booting again

some serious registry corruption happened randomly. :-\ this is not good.

skullpatrol

I think there is a global attack going on against Windows :(

1 hour later…

RegDwigнt

09:37

@Cerberus nothing, just the neighboring courtyard. He was simply on his way home. Or back to the vodka store. Or really just on a journey.

Cerberus

10:16

@RegDwigнt I was just wondering why anyone would take the trouble to get into some residential area unless he lived there—in which case he would have a key.

That makes it even more futile.

Either way, a vodka store was definitely involved.

MrWho

10:45

Hi

Anyone there?

Is it normal to say, "According to the aforementioned sentence, ... " ?

MrWho

10:57

@Cerberus ^

@RegDwigнt ^

Is that correct?

Cerberus

11:27

@MrWho Yes, that would be grammatically correct.

But if you really want to say that, it depends on context.

RegDwigнt

I'd guess you very likely do not want to say that.

skullpatrol

11:53

I agree with the aforementioned sentence :-)

@MrWho so, it is not "normal" to use that word in daily conversation

1 hour later…

Mitch

13:15

@RegDwigнt Holy shit, that's my back yard.

Cerberus

13:38

@Mitch Mitch...

We talked about the fence climbing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MrWho First, you probably don't want to say "aforementioned". Second, be careful that you're using it properly if you do use it.

Third, you typically don't refer to aforementioned "sentences". You just say the sentences, you don't mention them. Except in discussions like this one.

KitFox

14:24

Just when I thought this diagram was nearly complete.

MrHen

@KitFox: Sadly, I need to ask you some questions about abusing bounties.

Have a minute?

KitFox

Sure.

MετάEd

@KitFox That's what I'm going to be saying for the next ten years about this data dictionary.

KitFox

Want a private room?

MrHen

@KitFox It would be best

KitFox

14:32

Give me a moment.

MrHen

@KitFox Wait, belay that

I totally misread a user name

:)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

What kind of abuse this time?

MrHen

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Nah, it was a false alarm. I misread something.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Um, hi.

KitFox

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 smooch Hallooooo!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

14:47

@KitFox :D

Hallooooo yourself.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 hey! how's it going

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hale and hearty. Yourself?

MετάEd

@MrHen Ooh! Nautical term. Where's my pirate suit.

MrHen

@MετάEd I had it drycleaned.

MετάEd

@MrHen Well, shiver me timbers.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:49

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 pretty good. Just sold some of the kids toys while they're out at daycare. Let's see if they notice.

MετάEd

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That reminds me of the old coffee commercial.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 oh dear.

MrHen

@MετάEd Somehow, I suddenly want to see a sitcom about a pirate captain who has a traditional butler.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@MrHen Arr ya sure?

MετάEd

"We've just replaced Scotty's dilithium crystals with new Folger's crystals! Let's see if he notices the difference."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:50

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 They have so many toys that they never play with anymore.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Me too.

MετάEd

@MrHen Jeeves would do it.

Awal Garg

howdy neighbours

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I did drop my work badge in the toilet this morning. Still works.

MετάEd

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Poetic.

KitFox

14:54

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I usually hide them for a few months first.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 ew. I hate it when that happens.

@KitFox I tried that with one toy, a large horse (big enough to sit on) that they NEVER played with and were, in fact, scared of. Then they found it, and now they won't let me get rid of it.

KitFox

tut tut

Speaking of big horses that I am scared of, I hope @Matt is having fun this week.

Now, so I don't sound like an idiot, I am asking for the DNS registry? Would that make sense? For working up the list of subdomains?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox Just ask for the list of subdomains

KitFox

I finally tracked down the guy who assigns/registers them.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

it might be complicated: there could be a wildcard in the DNS, but then the host that serves the wildcard might be using a list of virtual hosts and might not just respond to any old hostname

RegDwigнt

15:02

user image

I'll just leave this here.

MrHen

@RegDwigнt Friggin' Ewoks are charging for a full size village? The tiny bastards.

MετάEd

Free the tiny figures!

RegDwigнt

@MrHen At least they didn't grill me.

KitFox

I can't imagine having that kind of money to spend.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, I guess I don't know the lingo, but close enough.

RegDwigнt

@KitFox well, I don't have a car, for starters.

KitFox

15:07

Apparently we have 705 records in the main domain.

RegDwigнt

Plus, you know, it's 23% off. And three minifigs for free. So it's not that kind of money anymore.

Oh, and of course you don't have to spend that kind of money anyway because friggin LEGO is friggin free in your friggin country.

KitFox

Right. The LEGO Simpson's house is about $250.00 here, which is what, like 500 Euro?

Actually, Euro is stronger than dollar, right now, innit?

So about the same price.

Meeting time. Later.

RegDwigнt

$250 = €180 right now.

That's RRP before any discounts. Our RRP before any discounts is €200.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I found a Ninja Turtles kit on double-clearance: marked down from $75 to $60 then 30% off.

RegDwigнt

Whoa.

Now the question is, which set it was.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:18

the turtles van

RegDwigнt

They are a mixed bag so far, to say the least.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah but at that price, it's always worth it.

$42ish for 700 pieces

or is it 600

RegDwigнt

You mean the Shellraiser Street Chase or what?

Or the new Van that came out this year?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, then the former.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

!!lego 79104

RegDwigнt

!!lego 79104

Jinx.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:19

lol

RegDwigнt

So anyway. That one sucked so much they actually called it back.

The wheels fell off and stuff.

And the ice-cream truck in it is, well. Shabby.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

user image

RegDwigнt

So yeah, I BLed the missing parts for that one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

oh, it's been recalled? sweet, That means I can just call up Lego and they'll ship me extra parts.

RegDwigнt

Plus it's got a rather severe case of that "I look olive green while only having three olive-green parts in total" syndrome.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:21

heh yeah

RegDwigнt

And those exact same olive-green parts now also come in the Submarine.

And again OVER 9000 of them at once.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yeah I was underwhelmed with the Turtles line, overall. And I already have Mikey. But whatever. $42 for 600ish parts is a good deal any day of the week.

RegDwigнt

user image

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

ugh. that thing is so hideous.

RegDwigнt

You can easily build that one from your Shellraiser and [any random] Star Wars set.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:23

Also pretty dumb. Why would turtles make a turtle-shaped submarine.

Humans don't make human-shaped submarines.

RegDwigнt

Because nobody would suspect them! It's reverse psychology.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

We make them penis-shaped. The most aerodynamic shape there is.

RegDwigнt

Which is funny, as penises aren't meant for flying. Unless you give a flying fuck, that is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But they are built for speed.

RegDwigнt

Oh well, I gotta run. CU on the other side.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:27

What's so ironic about the Ninja turtles is that ninjas are supposed to be stealthy.

MετάEd

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Where's the irony?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Then they drive around in an armoured van that's yellow-and-turtle-themed.

MετάEd

They're teenagers. They're supposed to do it badly.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

They should do like Dexter do: drive a Ford Escape.

Now, a submarine, even a turtle-shaped one, can be stealthy. That's sorta its point. But the van? Where would they even park it?

And they live in New York. Don't tell me parking is easy there.

Cerberus

16:22

And they are loud and clumsy...

KitFox

16:41

So which TMNT lego set would you recommend?

MετάEd

16:52

@KitFox They're looking for writers over at Overlook

KitFox

Oh crud.

oerkelens

17:42

dum-ti-dum

Mitch

18:17

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You.. you... bastard. They loved those toys. Just because they don't play with them anymore... or they're broken... or they're clogged with dried applesauce... or... wiat...how much did you make?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch $30

Mitch

Nice! Ice cream anyone?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Exactly. That's how stealthy they are. Out in the open like everyday life. You sneak up on people by not sneaking up on them, by just being there.

> ...you must put yourself in the enemy's position. If you think, Here is a master of the Way, who knows the principles of strategy", then you will surely lose. You must consider this deeply.

Really, its your kids who must consider this deeply. They might be coming home to loads of ice cream, but at what cost?

@Cerberus That dude is no one I know.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:38

@KitFox It depends on what you're looking for in the kits. I'd look for the minimal number of kits that gets you all four turtles. Most kits come with one or two turtles.

It looks like Leonardo is only in the bigger sets.

brickset.com/sets/theme-Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles

I'm not crazy about the badguy minifigs, or splinter, or any of the vehicles. But I love the turtle figs a lot. And the foot soldier figs are great.

You could try just buying the four turtle figs online, or buying the three smallest sets and getting mikey, don, raph, and then using bricklink to get leo.

Alraxite

@KitFox When is KitSox returning?

KitFox

Is she sleeping again?

Alraxite

No, she's gone.

KitFox

I think I need to get my husband to stop using Pandora on FF.

oerkelens

Hibernating

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:43

Myself, I'm going to be content with my one Leo and two Mikeys and worry about the other two turtles later, if ever. Which is a shocking position to be in, because normally I'm a completionist, but I have more important lego to buy.

Alraxite

!!Are you there?

KitSox

@Alraxite Certainly not

Alraxite

Not in the Hangman room, that is.

@KitFox Can you summon her?

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think we'll stick with small kits then, if possible.

@Alraxite You can.

!!summon 8795

Alraxite

OK.

KitSox

18:45

@KitFox Registered; need 0 more to execute

Alraxite

!!summon 8795

She's back! :D

KitFox

Well good.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The three smallest kits might be what you want then

MετάEd

@KitFox Okay, we wrote.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

!!lego 79102

KitSox

18:55

brickset.com/detail/?Set=79100-1

user image

user image

brickset.com/detail/?Set=79101-1

user image

brickset.com/detail/?Set=79102-1

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

$13, $25, $20 USD respectively

That gets you 6 bad guys and 3 of 4 turtles.

KitFox

tch Think we'll need Leo as well.

But we'll see.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That's the problem.

KitFox

My son's friend got one of these from us for his birthday, now my son wants turtle stuff.

sigh

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If you want Leo you could go with 71904 and 71905, then you'd have all four turtles in two kits.

but at a cost of $100

KitFox

18:58

Ouch.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

or you forego this line altogether. The new kits coming out are TMNT-movie-themed.

The turtle figs will look different.

@KitFox Well, just treat it as a lesson in scarcity. He can't have all the turtles, it's too expensive.

You might be able to cheat, and just buy a leonardo head on bricklink

and buy two 79100s

KitFox

Swords, man, swords.

But I could tell him that he will have to buy at least one of them.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

swords are very easy to come by. they're cheap and plentiful.

KitFox

Gramma would probably buy the other.

He's saving his allowance for a Ninjago tank right now.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

This Lego fig is about $11 on bricklink.

The black katana is $0.50 each.

wow I had no idea the katanas were so expensive

I have a whole bin of them.

KitFox

19:04

Probably the same katanas that Deadpool has.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I think so.

KitFox

So we've got those.

In gold and silver and black.

I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for this to wrap up so I can go home...

whinges

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

According to rebrickable I have 15 katanas. but I think that must be low.

KitFox

They are often a spare part, aren't they?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

mm... maybe

KitFox

19:07

I feel like if you have a character with two, you usually get three, but I might be wrong.

@MετάEd Excellent. You didn't follow the rules, but the writing is the important part.

And then with the putting stuff on Meta. Oi.

MετάEd

@KitFox I'm mostly a rule follower, but I don't know the rules. In this case I just did what they told me :-)

So now I just need to find the rulebook ...

KitFox

2

Q: Weekly Writer's Chat 2013

Weekly Writer's Chat is back on a regular meeting schedule after a hiatus. We meet Tuesdays in The Overlook Hotel starting at 1700 UTC (1pm EDT) and generally wrap up anywhere from 2pm to 4pm Eastern, depending on how much people feel like chatting. What we do in chat: We have informal writing...

discussion chat

Then a bunch of addendum posts later on.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox now we also have a meta Q that archives the chat

Oh I see you saw that already

oerkelens

19:31

happy panda

Will Hunting

How did happy panda sad panda come about?

oerkelens

Not a clue. But I do feel like one :)

Will Hunting

I am a very sad panda

oerkelens

ooow

Can bamboo help?

Will Hunting

Nothing can help, the panda needs a miracle

oerkelens

19:37

Sorry, I am fresh out of those :(

MετάEd

@KitFox Woo hoo! Rules!

oerkelens

Blue as your icon, then, eh?

Will Hunting

It's a nice colour

Blue helps you keep calm

Red agitates you

oerkelens

True that

Will Hunting

Ubuntu 14.04 out on Thu, me excited

Alraxite

19:41

What's it got?

Will Hunting

I dunno, but LTS versions are more stable than normal versions

Alraxite

itsfoss.com/new-features-ubuntu-1404

I can't relate because I haven't used it.

Will Hunting

Hmm, you can try one just before you throw away an old computer

Alraxite

I will try one.

Will Hunting

The most user friendly distro is Linux Mint

Alraxite

19:44

Right.

Will Hunting

Try the latest Mint with the Mate desktop, it feels like Windows XP

Alraxite

I know I'll have a hard-time getting around the Linux interface though.

I know nothing about the command-line in Linux.

Will Hunting

With Mint, you almost never need to use the command line

Linux is actually just as easy as Windows

Alraxite

It is, after you mount that learning curve.

Will Hunting

Yes, I had to search for a lot of answers on the net

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:46

It all depends on what you're trying to do

And how much you already know about computers

Alraxite

I only know how to get around the GUI in Windows, haha.

Will Hunting

To be honest I prefer Windows to Linux, it's just not FOC

Alraxite

You can get one if you know where to look.

Will Hunting

And I prefer Office to LibreOffice, it's just not FOC

Alraxite

I prefer Notepad to Office.

Will Hunting

19:49

I now prefer hardcover books to softcover ones

But they are usually more expensive by quite a bit

Alraxite

Only thing I like about Office is OneNote.

Will Hunting

Oh, I never use anything for notes, I think it is redundant

Alraxite

I'm not a note-taker myself, but it has a variety of uses.

And it's so easy to use.

Will Hunting

I will just fire up Word if I have to keep notes lol

Alraxite

I never bothered to learn about Word.

That's why I always have a hard time inserting an image without screwing up the whole document.

(I now know the solution lies in what is called wrap)

Will Hunting

19:52

I can create complicated graphics in Word using Shapes, and equations using Equation Editor

Actually, I don't see the need for LaTeX

But if you are expert in LaTeX, you can create anything you can imagine: It is combination of Word, Excel and Powerpoint

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So @Alraxite it seems like changing operating systems might not be for you, unless you specifically feel like a challenge or you are trying to address a certain need.

Alraxite

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, I've only ever used Windows. But I would like to learn about Linux.

And so, I decide to install it in the future.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Alraxite Well, here's the thing. switching operating systems is hard. even if the one you're switching to is better than the one you have. And for a person who self-describes as "MS Word was too complicated for me", you might find yourself in the situation where your new OS isn't doing what you want, and instead of your document's formatting being wrong your entire machine doesn't boot properly.

If you're in the mood for that kind of thrill, great! I encourage you.

There's always time to learn if you're motivated.

But it will be hard.

Alraxite

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Learning how to format text documents in a specific application is different from installing a different OS.

Yes, I'm motivated.

I do understand a bit about file systems I think.

I'll read more about them when I'll actually switch.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Alraxite It's different, sure, but it boils down to a similar problem: unless you're adept at (word-processors|operating-systems), $new_thing will be hard because you're very unfamiliar with the tool and possibly the underlying concepts.

If you are a word perfect expert, becoming a Word expert is straight-forward. (though you'll never be happy in Word). But if you know nothing about word processors, switching from word to WP or vice versa will gain you nothing.

For example, in linux there are competing implementations of the various bits that are responsible for booting the system and managing running background processes.

In Windows, there is only one implementation, the one that ships with Windows.

In Windows, you might not even be aware of that whole sub-system. In Linux, it's common that you have to at least learn of its existence.

Anyway, I don't mean to discourage you. If you're motivated to do it, I'm sure you can do it.

Alraxite

20:05

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think many Linux users probably used Windows as their first operating system.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

oh, of course they did.

Alraxite

But, presumably, they knew much more about it than I do. I wouldn't know. Switching to Linux will tell me.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But most linux users (the kind who install it themselves, anyway) were very motivated to try it and were computer nerds.

Most linux users who don't install themselves have someone else do it. an admin, a neighbour/relation, or the mfr.

Alraxite

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 There's a lot of material on the internet to read and even many video series about Linux. I'm not stupid to jump straight into it without knowing absolutely anything about it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Alraxite Yeah. There's lots to read. too much, in fact. Go with the "stupid" approach, don't listen to me being all downer. Download a Live CD and boot your pc with linux. you don't even need to install it. You'll at least learn about potential problems, like maybe your wi-fi isn't supported.

Alraxite

20:14

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I have to start somewhere! I don't think I'll learn any more about computers if I stay on Windows. Sure there is a lot too learn on it that I don't know about, but as long as I don't have any problems in getting around it, I won't know where to look or what I can possibly learn more about it. Linux, as you say, will throw problems one after another that I'll have to figure out.

Which is what I need.

That's how everyone learns.

I appreciate your advice though. I'll try to learn more thoroughly about it before jumping into it.

Windows does all the work for me in the background. Linux, possibly, less so which is what that'll help me learn more about it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Alraxite Oh, there's lots you could learn.

Alraxite

I'm aware.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You could stay on Windows, but learn how to program your phone.

anyway, if your goal is playing around and learning stuff, I might recommend Fedora Linux.

Alraxite

Okay. I probably haven't made myself appear as one, but I like to learn things thoroughly. If possible from the beginning. I'll probably end up getting a book on computer science in the future.

Not now, because I've other things to do!

It'd be really fun to learn how to build computers just starting from gates and all.

n11

linguistically would you rather say x and y are parameters of f(x,y) or are arguments?

Alraxite

20:24

@n11 I usually call the values being passed as 'arguments' and the variables on which the function depends as 'parameters'.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Alraxite I learned that. It wasn't too hard, but it did take 3 years of schooling to get to that point.

n11

Argument of a function

In mathematics, an argument of a function is a specific input in the function, also known as an independent variable. When it is clear from the context which argument is meant, the argument is often denoted by the abbreviation arg. A mathematical function has one or more arguments in the form of independent variables designated in the function's definition, which can also contain parameters. The independent variables are mentioned in the list of arguments that the function takes, whereas the parameters are not. For example, in the logarithmic function f(x) = \log_b (x), the base b is consi...

but also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parameter#Mathematical_functions

@Alraxite so the same thing, you call it differently depending on what is the subject?

makes sense

Alraxite

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Learning from the beginning is never hard. I've all sorts of things in my mind about learning first-order logic, rigorous set theory and all in maths. I think the most comprehensive way to learn about everything would be, Maths->Physics->Computer Science. But if I follow that route, it'd take me forever.

n11

> Mathematical functions have one or more arguments that are designated in the definition by variables. A function definition can also contain parameters, but unlike variables, parameters are not listed among the arguments that the function takes. When parameters are present, the definition actually defines a whole family of functions, one for every valid set of values of the parameters.

Alraxite

Everyone starts in the middle.

Then realises that they should start from the beginning in order to learn everything (or in order to actually understand everything).

n11

20:31

> For instance, one could define a general quadratic function by defining $f(x)=ax^2+bx+c$ here, the variable x designates the function's argument, but a, b, and c are parameters that determine which particular quadratic function is being considered.

fortunately this example makes it clear

Alraxite

@n11 Ah okay. In programming, I think, they distinguish parameters and arguments by what I've described. In mathematics, it's apparently different.

So, in maths, f defined by f(a, b, c)=(a+b+c)k is a function with arguments a,b,c and parameter k.

You get different functions by giving different values to k.

n11

yes, but what did you mean in programming exactly? some example?

11 mins ago, by Alraxite

@n11 I usually call the values being passed as 'arguments' and the variables on which the function depends as 'parameters'.

maybe you meant a local variable in the function body?

Alraxite

@n11 Well, if you have a function in your code which takes two variables like f( int x, char y) then I'd call x and y parameters in the function. If I call the function with something like f(2, c) then I'd call 2 and c arguments.

I refer to arguments as the things being passed.

I should probably google this before making such claims though.

n11

the distinction arguments / parameters is subtle, not sure to get it too, but doesn't matter

Alraxite

Well there you go: stackoverflow.com/questions/3176310/…

Yeah, they're interchangeable.

But some make that distinction.

n11

20:40

oh I see, you were right

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