English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

terdon

16:00

@Robusto Oy! Spoilers! Not all of us live in the US you know!

They kill him? Already? He's not dead in the books yet is he? Don't remember.

Oh, of course! The poison. OK. Forgotten that.

Mitch

16:15

@MattЭллен Don't worry about it, You're always deceiving yourself.

tchrist

@Cerberus Carice has clearly worked on her accent for this season.

Cerberus

Hello!

@tchrist Ah, at last!

Her accent kind of sucked.

tchrist

She’s in last night's S4E2, and you can really tell the difference.

Cerberus

@KitFox I have never heard of ice-cream as particularly Dutch. I can't think of anything like "typical Dutch ice-cream". So I would say no. We barely have a cuisine, remember?

@tchrist Good. It's odd, because she's really the kind of person you would expect a better accent from.

Mitch

How about waffles? Did les Belges steal that, too? Come on, give us something to work with.

Cerberus

16:21

Stroopwafels are the acme of Holland.

Mitch

Typical Dutch icecream? Vanilla.

Cerberus

After all, they are several millimetres high.

Mitch

@Cerberus See!

how about waffle fries? best of both worlds.

Cerberus

But wafels in general, probably not.

Waffle fries we do not have.

Mitch

what does 'stroop' get you?

terdon

16:22

@Cerberus What is it supposed to be? She's not westerosi so an English one would be out of character.

Cerberus

Waffles in general I would say are most typically Belgian.

Mitch

@Cerberus look in your grocer's freezer.

that's what the ads say.

Cerberus

@terdon Anything but Dutch!

Mitch

@Cerberus OK. How about seafood...herring?

Cerberus

Yes, raw herring is very Dutch.

Cheese.

Mitch

16:23

excellent...

terdon

@Cerberus Did you mean red herring?

Mitch

@Cerberus you mean boring cheese.

yellow cheese

Cerberus

@terdon The word herring was a red herring for you, apparently, so no.

Mitch

cheese that is as far from Cheddar as Gouda.

Cerberus

Umm.

It is called Gouda in other countries.

Gouda = regular cheese. Here.

Mitch

16:24

@terdon red herring is just not as good. an hour after a meal you realize you should have eaten something else.

4

Cerberus

So it makes no sense to say that Dutch cheese is not like Gouda cheese.

Although I'm sure our cheese is different from what they sell as Gouda in your country, unless it's imported (but even then?).

Mitch

@Cerberus exactly it's in the same cheese family (as much as cheeses have families) as cheddar and ... well... all those other yellowy cheeses, that I can't remember the name of because they are so boring.

Edam!

Hah! I remembered. Edam is the same as Gouda but has a different name.

Cerberus

Edammer is somewhat similar, but different.

I think.

Mitch

@Cerberus The differences are negligrable.

Cerberus

We don't often use those names.

Mitch

16:26

Gouda or Edam? you just call them cheese?

Cerberus

Yes.

Or we use sub-type names, I think.

Like Beemster.

Mitch

well there you go, you've proved my hypothesis that all Dutch cheeses are the same cheese, but with different names.

Cerberus

Which is also kind of a brand...I never understand how that works.

I would mainly just mention the age of the cheese.

Mitch

They all eventually become brands. First it is the name of the town (because everybody in that town makes cheese the same way in their basement)

n11

didn't eat cheese for an eternity

Cerberus

16:29

@Mitch I rather think most of those names indicate a method of cheese-making.

Mitch

Then a big cheese factory is made somewhere in Rotterdam that makes cheese to order. But lucky for the manufacturer, they only need to put a different label on the same cheese. Becasue as we've just proven, all Dutch cheese is the same

Cerberus

Not quite the same.

n11

all cheese have a unique bacteria fingerprint

Mitch

@Cerberus sure. slightly different amounts of food coloring.

Cerberus

I think almost every single cheese in my supermarket tastes differently.

No, it's not like that.

Mitch

16:30

@n11 Whoa dude...why are you touching all the cheese?

n11

hehe I sure do have more bacteria, right

Mitch

@n11 That's a long time.

Cerberus

Bacteria and fungi, probably?

Mitch

gah...all this talk of cheese is making me think of ... cheese.

Cerberus

Hungry!

Mitch

16:31

exactly!

lunchtime! back in a bit!!

n11

!!help pizza

KitSox

@n11 Were you trying to invoke me? Use the !!/help command to learn more.

Cerberus

I try to eat as little cheese as humanly possible...

Bai.

KitSox

@n11 Command pizza does not exist.

terdon

@Mitch Very true :)

Cerberus

16:48

@terdon What's proklêtikos?

From kaleô "to call, make famous"?

KitFox

Hi!

Johan Larsson

hej

Robusto

@terdon Sorry. I've been holding that one in for so long, though . . .

Cerberus

You knew he was to die?

I haven't watched the latest seasons anyway.

To me half of the main characters are still alive.

Robusto

@Mitch Let me amend that. All Dutch cheese is the same except for that which is different. We had some Beemster on vacation and it was very slightly different from Gouda although very close to the aged Beemster.

terdon

16:56

@Robusto S'OK, I've read the books but haven't seen last night's episode yet. WIll do so tonight

Robusto

@Cerberus If ever there was a brat-king who deserved regicide, Joffrey qualifies.

terdon

@Cerberus The story keeps relatively close to the books so there are no surprises if you've read them.

Cerberus

@Robusto This.

@Robusto Quite so.

@terdon Ah, so that was it.

I haven't read them.

And Robusto told me not to.

terdon

Yes, he and tchrist have a chip on their shoulder against Martin. I quite like him but they make good points about his prose. Still think they protest too much though :)

Cerberus

Heh.

Let me put it this way: content of low or medium quality can still be quite enjoyable.

It can even have some sparks of genius.

KitFox

17:01

Where are my grep peeps?

MετάEd

17:15

@KitFox grep. yacc. dump.

KitFox

Hi.

MετάEd

@KitFox Howdy!

KitFox

How is my favorite pirate cowboy?

MετάEd

@KitFox Heh heh heh.

Some people call me Maurice.

KitFox

makes whawow noise

Matt Эллен

17:19

I had that song stuck in my head and I ended up learning about that word which I have forgotten, which is sung in the first verse of that song.

KitFox

Space cowboy?

Oh, that's two words.

Matt Эллен

no, it's a word that's not a word

prompatus?

KitFox

I can't think of any in that song.

Cerberus

By the way, you convinced me about you will please.

KitFox

Pompatus

The word pompatus, also spelled pompitous, , , is a nonce word used in the lyrics of Steve Miller's 1973 rock song "The Joker". Lyrics :Some people call me the space cowboy. :Yeah! Some call me the gangster of love. :Some people call me Maurice, :'Cause I speak of the pompatus of love. The phrases "space cowboy", "gangster of love" and "Maurice" are all references to previous Miller songs. The "pompatus" line is also a reference to an earlier song of his, "Enter Maurice", which was recorded the previous year: : My dearest darling, come closer to Maurice : so I can whisper sweet words of...

Right.

Matt Эллен

17:22

Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Some call me the gangster of love
Some people call me Maurice
Cause I speak of the pompitous of love

yeah

KitFox

Now I remember.

Matt Эллен

Snopes said that the words (and some of the song) were taken from some song by a homeless guy

Glen The Udderboat

What's a 'toker'?

Matt Эллен

someone who tokes

!!urban toke

KitSox

@MattЭллен toke To inhale marijuana smoke

KitFox

17:24

Don't mind if I do.

tokes

chokes

Man, it's been ages since I inhaled smoke.

Matt Эллен

for me too

bbl - food's up

KitFox

cu

Glen The Udderboat

Does it 'bother' other people too that many things on the Internet can only be upvoted or liked?

KitFox

As opposed to?

Glen The Udderboat

Disliked.

Downvoted.

KitFox

17:30

If you don't have anything nice to say, you don't need to say it.

Glen The Udderboat

Wut?

KitFox

That's the principle, right?

Glen The Udderboat

I don't know.

What would democracy be like if (singular) votes were replaced with (possibly multiple) likes?

KitFox

We would make decisions based on what lazy people wanted.

Mitch

@Robusto And that which is different is pretty much the same all around.

@KitFox I couldn't be bothered with what lazy people think.

@GlenTheUdderboat Really? Doesn't everything come with an up or a down? Oh...you mean FB. Weird thing...FB is not the same as the internet.

Glen The Udderboat

17:37

If people are lazy and still think, then they're not doing a good job at being lazy.

Mitch

There's always room for improvement.

But that would go against the whole enterprise. If you have to try, then you're not really being lazy.

Glen The Udderboat

I figure it would require talent mostly.

Robusto

@terdon What, me and @tchrist? Protest too much? Nevah! You risk our wroth by saying so!

terdon

@Robusto So I guess I'll have to beseech y'all for mercy?

Robusto

But if you want a point-by-point breakdown of what is wrong with George R. R. Martin's prose, I would be happy to oblige when I have more time.

@terdon Mercy, yes. Money, no.

terdon

17:43

@Robusto Sure, if you ever get round to it and have nothing better to do. I have to say I really, really loved a collection of sci-fi short stories of his I read.

tchrist

@Robusto I've got several such analyses, from a low-level view of repeated phrases and grammatical errors.

terdon

Damn it, you're going to spoil him for me aren't you?

tchrist

It just gets worse as the series progresses.

MετάEd

@KitFox So ... you wanted your grep posse, here we are and is there a question :-)

Robusto

@terdon That's as may be. Short stories are, by definition, short. The Song of Ice and Fire would benefit from a little more brevity and a little less of the feeling that he sweated out his prose by the tubful.

@tchrist We should collaborate.

tchrist

17:44

It would also benefit from being an actual novel.

terdon

@Robusto True. Still, considering some of the competition... Have you read the Wheel of Time series for example?

Robusto

@tchrist Well, there's that. I'd settle for series of novels, but you can't have everything.

tchrist

He stopped writing novels after the third book, and wrote only serial installments without proper arcs.

terdon

@tchrist Yes, that's absolutely true.

tchrist

There is no ending to Dance.

You pay all that time, and get nothing in return at the end.

KitFox

17:45

@MετάEd Oh. Thanks. I figured it out all by myself.

terdon

@tchrist Nor to any of the previous ones. In fact, only Song ended as such.

Robusto

Yes. He should read Ursula K. LeGuin and learn how to write a series of novels.

@tchrist Nothing but the feeling of having wasted a large investment in time and emotion.

terdon

@Robusto I find her prose needlessly pretentious as well. Correct, mind you, but pretentious.

MετάEd

@terdon Woo hoo.

tchrist

“Pretentious”? Sheesh!

If you want trash talk, you know where to find it.

terdon

17:47

@tchrist Dunno, I came to her late. As in last year, in my thirties, and I was not convinced.

Robusto

@terdon I don't. I like her interesting take on character, and the way she has actual story arcs. And things happen. And she exerts a wonderful control over exotic situations.

terdon

I felt she was trying to out-Tolkien Tolkien and failed.

tchrist

Um, no.

Robusto

@terdon Did you read her in English?

tchrist

At all.

terdon

17:48

@Robusto Things happen? OK I need to read more cause nothing happened in the first two Earthsea novels.

Robusto

@terdon Wut?

terdon

@Robusto Of course!

Robusto

You are mad, sir.

terdon

@Robusto That :( I just saw a classic young apprentice wizard story, no explanation of what's so special about a rather boring main character who is too self obsessed.

tchrist

Even if you were right, and you are not, her opus is much, much greater than Earthsea alone.

Mitch

17:49

But pretentious? There may be problems, but pretentious is not it.

terdon

@tchrist And I have no opinion on it. I have read those two books and too many others whose opinion I value think highly of her. All I'm saying is that those two did not convince me to move on.

Robusto

Ged lost his shadow in A Wizard of Earthsea. That is an existential crisis you won't find in Martin or Rowling.

Mitch

@Robusto He just didn't know where to look.

terdon

Woah! Let's not bring Rowling into this, we're talking about people who can actually write.

Her books are fun, sure, but not much more. I'd happily bring in Wynn Jones if you'd like.

Mitch

@terdon Read the Dispossessed.

Robusto

17:50

@tchrist This. The Left Hand of Darkness, The Dispossessed, and The Lathe of Heaven are up there in the pantheon of science fiction novels, IMO.

terdon

OK, will do.

Mitch

A Wizard of Earthsea is 'young adult' novel

tchrist

The Left Hand of Darkness, The Dispossessed, The Word for the World Is Forest, The Lathe of Heaven, Rocannon’s World, Lavinia

terdon

It is the second novel of the earthsea series that bugged me most. It seemed completely irrelevant and I couldn't manage to care about the characters.

Mitch

@terdon That one is not the best of the series.

Robusto

17:51

@terdon Poor you. sticks out tongue. Don't you feel for Ged, locked in a dungeon, using all his magic just to stay alive?

tchrist

@Mitch It gets shelved under Teen F&SF these days, as do things like Ender’s Game. All these coming-of-age novels, you know. Then again, so is Hesse’s Demian.

KitFox

Ah, The Lathe of Heaven.

tchrist

@Robusto I was still typing. :)

terdon

@Robusto Yes, that was about the only time I did. But I wanted to know more about the character who seemed to have suddenly jumped from a sheepherder to a powerful mage with no explanation or justification.

Johan Larsson

@tchrist chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/14/photography-chat

Mitch

17:53

What's that late 1800's German play about coming of age that is totally not safe for work or high school?

terdon

@tchrist Damian? A coming of age novel?

Robusto

The thing is, there's nothing wrong with "young adult" novels. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn may be construed as a "young adult" novel, and it's possibly the "Great American Novel."

terdon

@Robusto Of course there isn't!

tchrist

@terdon Of course.

Demian

Demian: The Story of Emil Sinclair's Youth is a Bildungsroman by Hermann Hesse, first published in 1919; a prologue was added in 1960. Demian was first published under the pseudonym "Emil Sinclair", the name of the narrator of the story, but Hesse was later revealed to be the author. Plot summary Emil Sinclair is a young boy raised in a bourgeois home, amidst what is described as a Scheinwelt, a play on words that means "world of light" as well as "world of illusion". Emil's entire existence can be summarized as a struggle between two worlds: the show world of illusion (related to the...

Mitch

The young adult novel usually has the emotional maturity of a jr high student.

Read 'Young Adult Novel' by Daniel Pinkwater

terdon

17:54

@tchrist Hmm, fair enough. I read it about 15 years ago and it had not registered as such.

tchrist

@Mitch Male or female?

Robusto

Keerist, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man could be construed as a "young adult" novel.

Mitch

hm.. author... male I think.

terdon

OK, Left hand of darkness is now on my Kindle. I'll give it a shot.

Mitch

'Hesse' isn't it but dounds like the author. Last name intial is H for sure.

n11

17:55

!!define terseness

KitSox

@n11 terse (obsolete) Polished, burnished; smooth; fine, neat, spruce.

tchrist

@Mitch no

KitSox

@n11 terseness The characteristic of being terse.

KitFox

Spring Awakening?

Robusto

LeGuin likes breaking social and racial and gender conventions and tripping up the reader with them. For example, she notes that most people think Ged (Sparrowhawk) is a white kid, but he has skin the color of oiled walnut.

KitFox

17:56

Spring Awakening (play)

Spring Awakening () (also translated as Spring's Awakening) is the German dramatist Frank Wedekind's first major play and a seminal work in the modern history of theatre. It was written sometime between autumn 1890 and spring 1891, but did not receive its first performance until 20 November 1906, when it premiered at the Deutsches Theater in Berlin under the direction of Max Reinhardt. It carries the sub-title A Children's Tragedy. The play criticises the sexually-oppressive culture of 19th century (Fin de siècle) Germany and offers a vivid dramatisation of the erotic fantasies that it br...

Mitch

@KitFox yes!

oops on the last name.

tchrist

Nous avons eu une autre fin de siècle, donc what shall we call that one?

Robusto

@KitFox: Can you edit my last remark to take out the "not" from "not a white kid"?

I totally fucked that up. Damn. I should learn not to work and chat at the same time.

Actually, the sentence needs more help than just removing the not. grumble

terdon

@Robusto Ah, thanks, I was wondering.

Johan Larsson

are the commas right?

Robusto

18:01

"... most people think Ged (Sparrowhawk) is ~~not~~ a white kid, but [he is actually] someone with skin the color of oiled walnut."

terdon

Though I have to say, I never care what race my characters are. Unless it happens to somehow be relevant to the story, it is not a question that occurs to me. Probably since I was not raised in a society with many races around.

Robusto

@terdon Well, you'll be crossing some interesting gender barriers in Left Hand of Darkness.

terdon

Cool, I enjoy that

Robusto

OK, I do have to put my nose to the grindstone now. TTYL.

terdon

@Robusto Have fun

KitFox

18:03

@Robusto Oh, sorry. I did something else.

My grepping is terrible.

It takes forever. Is it supposed to take forever?

Jez

why do i keep wanting to eat peanut butter?

KitFox

Because it is yummy.

terdon

@KitFox probably not but yes if it's a huge file.

KitFox

18:18

I can't seem to get the mirror tool to scan this one subdomain either.

grumbles

RegDwigнt

18:36

@Robusto but for that you'd have to work and chat and learn at the same time.

Beware of combinatorial explosions!

Stack Exchange

18:48

Limerick Machine: Fancy a big slice of melon? Watch out if your head starts a-swellin’ You’ll have to g…

posted on April 14, 2014 by sgdi

Fancy a big slice of melon? Watch out if your head starts a-swellin’ You’ll have to go to The deswellin’ queue Or else you’ll be labelled a felon

oerkelens

I am trying to get my head around pronouncing that limerick so that it rhymes...

But even with my head a-swellon, it seems impossible.

How does "go to" rhyme with "queue"??

RegDwigнt

Well, how do you pronounce "queue"?

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/queue#Pronunciation

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…