English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

17:01

!!define congenic

KitSox

@KitFox congenic (genetics) (

KitFox

That's surprisingly a lot less helpful.

!!define consomic

KitSox

@KitFox consomic (genetics, of a strain) inbred and with one of its chromosomes replaced by the homologous chromosome of another inbred strain via a series of marker-assisted backcrosses

KitFox

Oh. So these must be sort of a nested hierarchy.

Robusto

I can't escape the feeling that you're talking to yourself.

Jasper Loy

17:03

Do the Americans understand spend a bomb on this?

KitFox

@Robusto Why would you want to disabuse yourself like that?

Because I am talking to myself.

@JasperLoy No. Well, yes, but no.

Jasper Loy

@KitFox I see. I remember Mahnax did not know what it meant.

KitFox

0

Q: Singular or plural in these sentences . .

I've often written sentences like these: The structure and linearity here is [are?]what is [are?] stifling creativity. Compare: The pencil and pen are in the room. [Where is seems wrong] The project is based on chapter information and book category, which is [are?] useless when guiding you towa...

This is a duplicate. I have to finish a document, so does anyone have time to track down an appropriate one?

Jasper Loy

17:26

@DavidM I see your rep is increasing rapidly.

David M

@JasperLoy That is the goal.

Well, actually, the goal is to entertain myself with this site. But, I do want to hit 10K

Jasper Loy

@DavidM You should aim for 20k, where you get all privileges non-moderator.

David M

@JasperLoy One thing at a time. Personally I'm rather enjoying spending time on here. The rep chase is just a little side game.

I was just explaining to my wife that it's forcing me to relearn my own language so I can explain its usage to others. Fascinating.

KitFox

17:43

Oh poor Gnome.

And you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That's an actual real-estate broker

KitFox

Wow.

How would you feel if someone said "I'd love to make b&t with you."?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

parents: if your last name is "Sockalingam", don't name your child "Punch"

Jasper Loy

@KitFox What is b&t?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I'd feel confused.

!!urban b&t

KitSox

17:50

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 B & T Bridge & Tunnel, people that do not live in Manhattan, but live nearby and have to enter to entertain themselves via either...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yeah I have no idea what b&t is supposed to mean in that context.

Jasper Loy

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Me too.

Kit has been kidnapped, lol.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It is clearly about B and T immune cells.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8 mins ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I'd feel confused.

I stand by my previous answer

Jasper Loy

WTF is b&t?

Cerberus

17:57

If you make out with someone, you need your immune cells to counter the foreign bodies.

Jasper Loy

My guess is breasts and testicles.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus but do you "make" the immune cells? or just activate them?

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 make

You activate a pool of "memory cells" if present and they will start multiplying.

What are you people talking about?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13 mins ago, by KitFox

How would you feel if someone said "I'd love to make b&t with you."?

b&t: bacon and toast

b&t: bread and theatre

b&t: bananas and turnips

b&t: bromine and tungsten

b&t: breakfast and tea

b&t: brigands and terrorists

KitFox

Black and tan.

Good lord.

I am actually doing some work here sometimes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:04

@KitFox the beer cocktail?

KitFox

Uh. I guess.

Guiness and Smithwick's, usually.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I guess I'm still confused.

Is it meant to be taken literally

or is it a euphemism for sex?

Jasper Loy

I prefer breasts and testicles, lol.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You make more of them when triggered, I should think?

Glen The Udderboat

b&t: beef and tomato

Cerberus

18:05

Ah.

Yay Terdon agrees with me!! Kind of.

@GlenTheUdderboat Hoi.

Glen The Udderboat

Hulla.

Jasper Loy

Hi white square.

Cerberus

We stand a good chance of taking over the room for Holland, when you and Oerkelens are here.

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, therein lies the question.

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Then we can vote to convert the site into NT&G.

Glen The Udderboat

18:07

Hi Blue.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox indeed. I'm sticking with "confused".

Cerberus

@MattЭллен An odd remark for a dictionary.

It must mean that adult does no honour to the word pornographic, and it was written by an American, so it can't have been in the OED.

terdon

@Cerberus I do? All I said is that immune cells are made anew when needed. But I like agreeing with you so, sure :)

Cerberus

@terdon We both said "make".

Glen The Udderboat

Like twins.

terdon

18:10

Yes, just read the backlog, we do indeed agree.

Cerberus

Maybe your reply was a tiny bit more detailed...

Like twins.

Except that you're the biologist in the family.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

oh gods, that is the last thing we need around here, a Cerberus twin.

Cerberus

Buwahaha.

Better than a twin freaky talking Lego figurine!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah I'd probably either really love or really hate my twin, and either way it'd be excruciating for the others in this room

Jasper Loy

What happens if I go up to a girl and say "Can I make babies with you?"

Glen The Udderboat

18:13

Lego figurines are overtaking the human population in numbers. Does that make them evolutionary better?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy she laughs at you, or slaps you.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I assume it's written by Douglas Harper, since he curates etymonline

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Ah, OK.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GlenTheUdderboat "better" is not a thing in evolution.

3

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Yes. But can they keep it up?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That is the right answer.

Glen The Udderboat

18:14

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 'Winning' then.

Cerberus

Same.

Glen The Udderboat

OK. Forget evolution. Just a theory anyway. Are they morally superior?

Cerberus

Yes, clearly.

Glen The Udderboat

Well, then they deserve to win.

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Thank you!

@GlenTheUdderboat Are the Chinese morally superior to the Luxemburgians?

Luxemburgese?

KitFox

18:22

Luxemburgers.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GlenTheUdderboat They are superior to humans in many ways, but also inferior, in that their knees do not bend.

KitFox

Mmm.

Matt Эллен

I am more ally superior

Jasper Loy

@MattЭллен I just thought of a hard word for that. You are sanctimonious, lol.

Matt Эллен

still superior

Glen The Udderboat

18:23

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, that might spell trouble for them later on.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I see you got a star for that insidious remark there. 'Better' is clearly, now, defined as the end-result of evolution.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@GlenTheUdderboat evolution doesn't have an end-result. just lots of intermediate results.

Glen The Udderboat

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's what you think. Just wait for a little bit longer.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 At last you admit it!!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus admit what?

Cerberus

That your knees do not bend!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:30

@Cerberus It's no secret

On the plus side, I can replace my legs, arms, hands, head, torso, hair, etc, whenever I want

Glen The Udderboat

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 'result': the final score or a description of who won and lost in a game, election, etc.

Cerberus

I can replace my skull.

Jasper Loy

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Really? I want to replace my brain, lol.

Cerberus

Haven't you seen the news about the skull transplantation?

@GlenTheUdderboat For there to be a score, there has to be a goal. What is it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy is your current brain made of Lego? if so, it will be a snap. literally.

Glen The Udderboat

18:31

@Cerberus I'd think that technically amounts to an implant.

Cerberus

I suppose you're right, medically speaking.

Glen The Udderboat

And otherwise.

Especially otherwise.

Cerberus

Well, there is a trans- in that it is moved from one location to another.

BRB

Glen The Udderboat

@Cerberus Do you know many people with tooth transplantations?

MετάEd

⏚oo⏚

Jasper Loy

18:36

Am I being too fussy to email the SE staff about 3 downvotes, 1 on each of 3 consecutive days?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus does an activity with a meaning imply that it has a goal?

Glen The Udderboat

@JasperLoy Yes.

Jasper Loy

@GlenTheUdderboat So should I wait till there are 4?

Glen The Udderboat

@JasperLoy 23, at least.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy what do you mean, you are concerned that someone is targetting you for downvotes?

Jasper Loy

18:37

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy in that case don't bother emailing the SE staff at all. Just let it go.

►

terdon

That has cost you a grand total of 6 rep points.

Jasper Loy

@terdon Yes, it is not about the points, it is a matter of principle.

terdon

Let it go. It's never worth it.

Robusto

Tru dat.

terdon

18:47

Hang on, I had a meta answer on another site that sums this up nicely I think:

> If someone downvoted you, there are two possible reasons:

> 1. Your answer is wrong/low quality/incomplete/not useful. Then the downvoter was very correct in downvoting. You should have a look at your answer and see how you can improve it. I have had very useful downvotes that helped me learn and improve my posts.

> 2. Your answer is fine and the downvoter misunderstood/hates you/is an idiot whatever. In this case ignore the downvote. Come on, not only are these useless internet points, you also just use 2 rep per down vote. It really isn't such a big deal.

Robusto

@JasperLoy Think of it this way: Whoever spent one point to cost you two points only ever expected to get the two imaginary points as your punishment. Imagine how much more he wins if you get emotionally hot and bothered about it now.

terdon

And that ^^

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat If not medical, then none.

@MattЭллен You'd need to define meaning for me in this context?

@Robusto Good point. Worth more than two SE points.

skullpatrol

@Cerberus infinitely more :-)

!!wiki the meaning of meaning

KitSox

The Meaning of Meaning

The Meaning of Meaning: A Study of the Influence of Language upon Thought and of the Science of Symbolism (1923) is a book by C. K. Ogden and I. A. Richards, Magdalene College, University of Cambridge. It is accompanied by the two supplementary essays by Bronisław Malinowski and F. G. Crookshank. Although the original text was published in 1923 it has been used as a textbook in many fields including linguistics, philosophy, language, cognitive science and most recently semantics and semiotics in general. The book has been in print continuously since 1923. The most recent edition is t...

Cerberus

19:08

@skullpatrol That's a lot!

skullpatrol

@Cerberus Yep, more than anyone can even imagine ...

Glen The Udderboat

@Cerberus I recently came across a couple that repeatedly referred to the 'fi-èts'. Have you encountered this?

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Huh? As in a fiets?

Glen The Udderboat

Yup.

Cerberus

No, never.

Sounds like a Slavic accent?

Glen The Udderboat

19:12

@Cerberus No, they were quite Dutch. Like plee and ijskast people.

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Haha. Hey, I use those words!

Did they have speech impediments?

Glen The Udderboat

@Cerberus No, it was quite deliberate. I just didn't know whether it was a very-inside joke or something more meme-like.

Cerberus

Odd.

Sounds like an inside joke, then; but why make an inside joke where other people can hear you?

Glen The Udderboat

@Cerberus Maybe the joke is on the others. See how they react.

Cerberus

Btw. how would you characterise plee and ijskast people?

Glen The Udderboat

19:19

@Cerberus Exactly as I just did.

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat No longer cats?

Ah

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Which is?

Glen The Udderboat

'plee and ijskast people'.

Cerberus

And what does that mean to you?

Just curious.

Glen The Udderboat

@Cerberus Well, all kinds of generalisations might pop up, but I'd say people who have been brought up in 'better' neighbourhoods? Something like that? I don't know what the greatest common denominator is.

@Cerberus But in this particular case I couldn't even imagine them saying toilet or koelkast, even if I don't know where they grew up. In this case, it was the whole picture I guess.

@Cerberus I also think plee is a bit over the top. Unless you are with people you are very familiar or relaxed with. So, I usually use WC.

Is 'usually use' problematic?

Matt Эллен

19:35

@Cerberus Life is a result of evolution. If life has meaning, then evolution has meaning, because evolution gave us life. Life is an activity, you cannot passively live life, even coma patients breath. If an activity that has meaning has a goal, then evolution has a goal.

Does life mean something?

Does that mean it has a goal?

Is that enough context?

Jasper Loy

-5

Q: Possible serial downvoting

I got 1 downvote on each of the past 3 days. Of course, none of my answers are fantastic. However, I believe that this is an act of malice. This is not a matter of rep points but a matter of principle. Could someone look into this? Thank you.

support serial-voting

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Ah OK, OK. That characterisation sounds appropriate. Although there is also another kind of people who say plee, like Amsterdammers.

Jasper Loy

Just to share, lol. ^

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat But you do say ijskast?

@GlenTheUdderboat Usually use is fine...though perhaps not perfect in a literary text.

Glen The Udderboat

@Cerberus I use both ijskast and koelkast. Consciously.

terdon

19:39

@MattЭллен Not quite. Life is not the result of evolution, and evolution most certainly does not have a goal.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен That sounds fair.

@MattЭллен Okay, so you are asking for me to interpret what people could mean when they talk about life having a meaning, and whether to those people a meaning implies a goal. My answer would be, yes, probably.

terdon

Why do people always think that life is the result of evolution? Evolution only comes into play once life exists.

Matt Эллен

@terdon evolution happened and now we have life. ergo life is a result of evolution

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Hmm for what reason, what is your aim by so doing?

terdon

@MattЭллен nope. Life happened, ergo we have evolution

Matt Эллен

19:41

@terdon so evolution is a part of life

Cerberus

@terdon I think he means human life.

terdon

Evolution needs a self perpetuating entity which will propagate by creating slightly different versions of itself.

Glen The Udderboat

@Cerberus Adapting to what I think the other person is most used to.

Cerberus

Besides, why should evolution be limited to life?

terdon

The evolutionary process can only begin after life exists.

Matt Эллен

19:42

that isn't true

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Hmm. That sounds...tiring! But noble, in a way.

terdon

@Cerberus It is not, well, specifically natural selection is not. But it certainly is not a causative agent.

Matt Эллен

evolution started the moment the universe began

terdon

@MattЭллен nope. You could say that for natural selection but not evolution as such.

Glen The Udderboat

Evolutionary processes are not exclusive to life.

Cerberus

19:42

@terdon What is not a causative agent? Evolution? Life?

terdon

@Cerberus Evolution is not a theory that describes the origin of life.

Cerberus

Fair enough.

Matt Эллен

@terdon nope, I am saying it about evolution. i.e. "The gradual development of something"

Cerberus

@terdon I would define evolution as change caused by natural selection, is that fair?

Glen The Udderboat

It is not gradual either.

terdon

19:44

@MattЭллен Ah, but in the sense of the biological theory, you need reproduction.

David M

Are we speaking of evolution? The only well documented scientific process that is relegated to theory status despite scags of evidence of its validity?

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat It's usually gradual in a way?

Matt Эллен

@terdon but in the sense of the laws of thermodynamics, you don't

terdon

@Cerberus Yes, when applied to living creatures. Not in broader sense that @MattЭллен is using it in.

Glen The Udderboat

@Cerberus Only from a distance.

terdon

19:44

@DavidM EVERYTHING is a theory, by definition

Cerberus

@DavidM What are scags?

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat Of course it is gradual

David M

@Cerberus A large amount - very slangy.

Cerberus

@terdon Right, it can also just mean any gradual development, in the broad sense?

terdon

@MattЭллен not if we mean evolution as change, yes if we mean evolution as a gradual path to change via natural selection

Glen The Udderboat

19:45

@terdon Most certainly not. It is not a mathematically continuous process.

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat Which evolution?

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Isn't everything?

Matt Эллен

anyway. the changes that progress life and that brought life about are given meaning through life. if life has meaning

Cerberus

@DavidM Ah OK, you almost had me worried!!

terdon

Big if :)

skullpatrol

19:46

@terdon Have you read the Origin of the Species?

Glen The Udderboat

@terdon In this case, natural.

terdon

@skullpatrol Not in its entirety but it is largely irrelevant today

@GlenTheUdderboat very gradual, no jumps.

Glen The Udderboat

@terdon Very small jumps, actually.

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat Is anything concerning particles m.c. in the physical world?

David M

@terdon Of course. But, you never hear anyone say the "Theory of Chemistry" to describe the whole study.

skullpatrol

19:47

@terdon why irrelevant?

David M

They just say Chemistry.

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat kinda, so == gradual. Jumps is misleading though.

@skullpatrol Because it was a very simplistic view and we have moved away from it.

Glen The Udderboat

@Cerberus Can't say whether QM is discrete or continuous with certainty.

terdon

@DavidM No, but we still talk about the theory of matter, the atomic theory, the btheory of gravity. A theory can never be proven, only disproven.

Cerberus

@GlenTheUdderboat QM?

skullpatrol

19:48

@terdon but you build on the simple, right?

terdon

Quantum Mechanics

Cerberus

Ah.

terdon

@skullpatrol Yes indeed, but the origin of species is about as relevant to modern evolutionary theory as Freud's theory of mind is to modern psychology

David M

@terdon Only because we have less physical evidence. But, the fossil record is pretty convincing.

terdon

@DavidM No no no, this is basic theory of science. To put it another way, it is still the theory of gravity.

David M

19:49

@terdon I understand that.

terdon

No theory in the history of science has ever been proven.

Glen The Udderboat

@terdon Why is jumps misleading? They are mostly just discrete errors.

David M

@terdon I'm speaking of the way most of the public refers to it. Not the literati who understand that everything is theoretical.

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat They're not really, the changes are vanishingly small, the idea of jumps (known as Lamarckian evolution) has been discredited 100 years ago

And is now being revisited because of some modern findings but that's another story :)

@DavidM I know, but it bugs me. People take the word theory as implying that it something uncertain while it does not.

Glen The Udderboat

@terdon I'm speaking of errors (or singular mutations) in DNA. What's wrong with that?

David M

19:52

goo.gl/aEJmp7

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat Nothing. That does indeed happen. Not errors though, that implies correctness, just changes. However, these are tiny tiny steps, and the process is gradual. You don't get a single mutation an bam huge change.

David M

Check out that NGRAM

@terdon I'm a scientist. I understand.

terdon

@DavidM well, yeah. It's not a science anymore than gravity is a science.

Jasper Loy

I am a lunatic, lol.

Glen The Udderboat

@terdon In my book, those are jumps, however tiny tiny they are.

terdon

19:53

@DavidM No you're not, you're a medical doctor, that's just a glorified mechanic :P

David M

@terdon OK, I was a scientist.

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat OK, yeah, but they are not jumps in evolution. Think of it as sliding down a slope.

@DavidM Nah, come on, just pulling your leg.

David M

And, just because I happen to be wearing coveralls at the moment ...

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat it's like the tortoise and the hare paradox

David M

I was working in my workshop.

terdon

19:55

Achilles, not hare, sorry: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Glen The Udderboat

@terdon They are. In my book. These are discrete jumps, because DNA isn't continuous at the atomic level.

David M

@terdon goo.gl/GJgc2u

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat Yes, I see what you mean. The mutations are indeed discrete, the process they cause is not.

The changes need to accumulate before a change is observed and the macroscopic process of change, evolution, is not discrete but rather continuous. Despite being caused by discrete steps in the microscopic level.

David M

@terdon Radiation, UV light, etc. it's fascinating how these cause mutations.

terdon

Yup. You're talking to a smoker, so let's not bring up free radicals :)

Glen The Udderboat

19:58

@terdon I heard of those in a James Bond first. You too?

David M

@terdon Ahhhhhh . . . as your mechanic I have to advise against that.

terdon

@GlenTheUdderboat Hah! I wish, no it was highschool chemistry or university biology for me :)

@DavidM lol I know, I know.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…