English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:18

> 15 food terms you're probably pronouncing wrong.

►

Except for Pho, surely we all know how to pronounce those terms?

David M

Gyro and Pho are the most commonly mispronounced.

Bruschetta and gnocchi are not far behind.

Cerberus

Hi.

David M

Hi!

This guy seems to be brain damaged, though.

Cerberus

By stupid people, perhaps!

He's no doubt acting the fool.

She needs to practice her French pronunciation.

David M

To be sure. Unfortunately, many Americans chronically mispronounce these.

I'm not certain he's acting . . .

Cerberus

00:28

They have written the script together...

I think it's his channel.

And in my experience Brits are not much better at pronouncing French than Americans are.

David M

Probably worse in most cases. The Brits have a national predilection for pronouncing things their own way.

Cerberus

Just for pronouncing French wrong hehe.

Not that the French are much better...

David M

America has a geographic excuse, at least.

Plus we went through a phase in the early 20th century where immigrants tried to lose their accents and cease to speak their native tongues, etc. It led to generations of Italian-Americans, French-Americans, etc. etc. who can't even pronounce their last names properly!

Cerberus

That's sad.

I think most originally foreign surnames are still pronounced somewhat as in the original language.

Some sounds will change, of course.

David M

@Cerberus My last name Misita - Sicilian in origin probably bastardized Spanish.

Properly pronounce Mee-see-tah

Cerberus

00:38

Yeah.

David M

Accent on the middle syllable.

Cerberus

Naturally.

David M

We pronounce it Miss-eeta

I'm the first in my family in 2 generations to learn Italian . . . hence . . .

Cerberus

@DavidM That's not so bad?

How long ago did they emigrate?

David M

1905

Cerberus

00:40

So how many generations is that?

I can imagine you wouldn't speak fluent Italian after two generations or so.

David M

My great-grandparents came over. They had 1 child born there, my grandfather was the youngest and born here.

Cerberus

But I would expect an interest in your culture to remain, and some knowledge of Italian?

David M

He could understand, and barely speak Sicilian dialect.

Not to the degree you'd hope.

Cerberus

Like basic pronunciation.

David M

Plus there is an additional wrinkle. My grandfather grew up in the Jewish section of a mixed neighborhood. He spoke better Yiddish than Italian, and he married my grandmother who was of Russian Jewish extraction.

I learned the language out of personal interest, and made contact with lost family over there.

Cerberus

00:44

Cool.

I have a German cousin with whom I only share great-great-grandparents.

David M

It has been. I now have a regular pen pal in the form of my cousin too many times removed to figure out.

Cerberus

She can still understand Dutch, but she speaks back in German.

David M

It's about that same relationship.

Cerberus

Nice.

David M

Dutch/German are as similar as Yiddish/German to my limited understanding.

Cerberus

00:45

I'm actually not sure how many generations ago they moved to Germany.

They are quite similar, yes.

David M

Can you understand the Scandinavian languages?

Or at least muddle through?

Cerberus

But a Dutch child who has not been taught any German yet will probably not understand much of it.

@DavidM No, you? I can understand the occasional word.

I can maybe if I try really hard get the gist of a simple Wikipedia article.

David M

The occasional word, as you've said. Particularly the cognates.

Cerberus

Only those, for me.

I have never studied them.

I think they're about as far removed from English as from Dutch?

David M

Probably more so.

Dutch crept into AmE quite a bit through the settlers.

Mostly in town names, etc. But, we do see remnants.

I can't seem to think of a good example.

The only one coming to mind is the Tappan Zee Bridge which crosses the Hudson River.

Cerberus

00:51

@DavidM I think the greatest influence of Dutch on English was in the 17th century.

Like skipper and boss and such.

David M

@Cerberus Yes, that seems correct, and historically sensible.

Cerberus

Uhuh.

But it's bed time here.

See you soon ibidem!

David M

@Cerberus Good night. Pleasure to meet you.

Cerberus

Addio!

Jasper Loy

Are you not sleeping?

Cerberus

00:59

> Europe
Avoid red roses and white flowers, even numbers, and the number 13. Do not wrap flowers in paper.

My parting gift. Totally ridiculous, and this is supposedly a scientific study.

poof

Robusto

01:11

@Cerberus Be nice if there were videos with examples of all those.

RegDwigнt

OMG they added a "keep going" button.

The playing field is level again.

But I must be sleeping.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Otherwise it would be quite hopeless.

Matt Эллен

01:27

@RegDwigнt oh no

tchrist

02:17

@DavidM Fruits like cherries, peaches, and plums have pits in America, but stones in England. We get that from the Dutch.

David M

@tchrist That's it! I could only half remember that there was something with fruits.

tchrist

Nonetheless, the entire group is still known as stone fruit.

David M

Hey! How did you identify that guy as a spammer the other day?

tchrist

Other things can have pits, too.

Kids will call the seeds of an apple, pear, or even an orange pits, although I’m not sure that’s optimal.

David M

@tchrist Citrus are pips if I remember correctly.

tchrist

02:21

@DavidM By their postings shall ye know them.

David M

But, that is easily confused.

tchrist

Right, since the final stop tends to get a bit lost.

David M

@tchrist IDK, twice I seem to have been suckered by legitimate looking posts.

I hate answering them and finding out they're sock-puppets, etc.

tchrist

After you’ve seen a thousand of his postings, you too will learn to recognize them.

You don’t have enough reps yet for me give you the full training session.

David M

@tchrist I assume b/c it would take access to deleted posts.

tchrist

02:23

Once you hit 10k, I can provide a few hundred samples, and possibly my feature-vector list.

That’s right.

David M

Yeah, I'm working on it.

5500 points in 33 days ain't shabby.

Stupid 200 rep cap!

tchrist

I’ve got like a couple of dozen things to test for. Some disqualify it from being him, some auto-qualify. Most just tip the balance a little further.

There’s a way to calculate what your rep would be without the rep cap.

David M

@tchrist I wasn't sure if it was the links to primarily Indian news sources, or something like that.

@tchrist Automatically or do I have to count the uncounted up votes manually?

tchrist

@DavidM No, not at all.

Automatically.

David M

@tchrist Cool, how?

tchrist

02:25

SEDE is the seat of SEXy knowledge.

David M

@tchrist That's a bit too cryptic for me.

tchrist

data.stackexchange.com

David M

SEDE is which site?

tchrist

That’s SEDE.

Search for the rep cap one.

David M

@tchrist Why is it creating a JohnDoe instead of sharing my usual SEID?

tchrist

02:28

data.stackexchange.com/english/query/161622/…

@DavidM I don’t know. Different system.

For example, I should have 54,638.

David M

What ID do I use? It's not taking my usual one.

tchrist

You have to give your ELU ID #.

David M

How do I find that?

NVM. Found it

tchrist

You are #59527.

There is no #1.

The Prisoner

I haven’t run the badge queries lately.

Guru and Enlightened.

David M

Odd . . . It shows that I'd have 5751. Why would I have 200 less rep? I don't think I have 100 down votes.

tchrist

02:35

That’s curious.

SEDE isn’t real time.

David M

Does it not count accepts, perhaps?

tchrist

There’s a query to check the date.

Accepts do not count against rep cap.

Nor accepteds. Nor bounties.

David M

Right, but it should count in this query.

Otherwise, it would be fairly limited, right?

Otherwise, I could say I've earned 5751 independent of accepts.

tchrist

Did you repcap today?

The upload may be from a day or two ago.

David M

@tchrist Yesterday UTC time I did.

tchrist

02:38

Then that’s why.

39

A: What does a door do on its hinge?

The door swings on its hinge. To move backward and forward, especially rotating about or hanging from a fixed point. Turns, as suggested by other answerers, sounds like another great possibility. But a quick look at the actual usage stats brings up something interesting. Here are the top ...

+1 for Guru.

Here are Unenlightened answers lacking but one for Englightened.

Englightened seems a fitting malaprop.

David M

@tchrist A bit.

That number must be a bit older than yesterday. I think I've crushed the cap a few times this week.

tchrist

This may be it then.

David M

My estimate is that I've been robbed of around 400 rep in the last month by the cap.

There's a few interesting bits o'data on that site. I could probably spend hours amusing myself with the uselessness of it all.

Robusto

03:17

w00t! I made my century.

3

100 Enlightened badges.

Pretty sure someone must have been helping out, since I just got the final two today.

David M

@Robusto Congrats!

Is there a badge for that?

Robusto

It is a hundred-headed badge.

skullpatrol

07:55

4.999...hours later...

Cerberus

09:06

@Robusto Waahh I'l leave that to Reg! You know, I wouldn't understand much of any of those dialects, not even the "Dutch" ones.

Not also that e.g. number 12, "Westfränkische Mundarten", includes many dialects even within the Dutch part of that area. I can't understand them at all, in a realistic setting, like listening to people talk in the train.

Robusto

12:51

-2

Q: Help me come up with a witty dissertation title. Win $5.00 for the best title

My honours thesis is due in soon and I still haven't thought of a great title. I want something that's clever (perhaps using a pun or two), but also gives insight into what I'm doing. Preferably in the form of "Thesis: A Brilliant Thesis" Everyone loves colons. So what is my thesis about? It is...

pun

Should be held with forceps and shoved under the water till it drowns.

tchrist

14:19

@Robusto Never knew bounties worked that way.

9

Q: Best word for “computer science”

It may seem like an obvious question, but having never been to Germany I wouldn’t know. What is the most ‘native’ (for lack of a better word) way of saying computer science as in a school subject. My teacher says either: Computer-Studien Computer-Wissenschaft But I have also seen: Inf...

english-to-german

skullpatrol

number-crunching

Robusto

@tchrist I think many people would sacrifice rep to witness that outcome.

Robusto

14:50

> On your deathbed, you're probably not going to look back on your life and feel it would have been complete if only you'd had a higher rep score on EL&U.

Alraxite

Or that you had a higher score in 2048.

but you'd definitely feel better in threes, threes is harder.

tchrist

15:10

Hm, I was just permitted to protect a question that hadn’t been open for 48h yet. Did they lower the threshhold to 24h, or is this some secret 40k superpower?

Because if so, I have several other candidates that are drawing flies.

Oh cool, it worked.

8

Q: Is there an idiom or euphemism for when someone has an average/small penis but knows how to use it?

Really, what the question title states. In my language there's a more "flowery" phrase to say "size doesn't matter". It would roughly translate to "even a small clown can work in the big top" – I'm looking for something that tries to maintain the wit of the "small"/"big" antithesis.

idioms euphemisms

But it should be closed anyway.

I meant this:

17

Q: How do you politely ask for one's gender?

If you, for example, have to add a person to an application whilst that person is on the phone, how do you politely ask for that person's gender if the voice and/or name has not proven decisive?

word-choice

Flag queue is now the deepest review queue.

Although I suppose this queue goes on for ever and ever and ever and ever.

Robusto

@tchrist That's an understatement. It should be held with forceps and shoved under water till it drowns. (The forceps are used to prevent physical contact with it.)

tchrist

15:26

It’s not that your penis is too small, just your lens is too short. Either a super-telephoto or a micro lens would be useful here.

But that just depends on the working distance.

Robusto

No, I think we have to allow for the possibility that the poster's penis may, in fact, be too small.

tchrist

Oh.

So macro lens then, not micro?

Robusto

Perhaps STEM?

tchrist

So much for one size fits all.

Robusto

Electron microscope

An electron microscope (EM) is a type of microscope that uses an electron beam to illuminate a specimen and produce a magnified image. An EM has greater resolving power than a light microscope and can reveal the structure of smaller objects because electrons have wavelengths about 100,000 times shorter than visible light photons. They can achieve better than 50 pm resolution and magnifications of up to about 10,000,000x whereas ordinary, non-confocal light microscopes are limited by diffraction to about 200 nm resolution and useful magnifications below 2000x. The electron micr...

@tchrist You lose your 10mm socket and the whole kit is worthless.

David M

15:53

@tchrist Why did you feel this to be POB?

@tchrist A macro lens would be more helpful . . .

Stack Exchange

16:58

Limerick Machine: Hopefully that's not all

posted on March 15, 2014 by sgdi

The recipe called for some cheese And honey directly from bees A measure of brandy A half pint of shandy And bright green limes from the keys

Johan Larsson

17:28

@Cerb Latin Kings are ok imo, dunno about that song though. Sucky internet here, can't check.

Competed with puppy today, he did good but no prize

Jasper Loy

18:03

@Robusto Small, just like mine.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Where are you, in the country?

Jasper Loy

@Cerberus Woof!

Cerberus

Hi.

Jasper Loy

Are you still using XP?

Cerberus

Yup.

You?

Jasper Loy

18:14

XP security updates end next month, you know right?

Cerberus

Sure.

Jasper Loy

That means it is no longer safe to use XP, and one must upgrade to a newer version.

I am still using Linux.

Cerberus

I haven't installed updates in a while anyway.

Jasper Loy

I think Windows is better than Linux.

Cerberus

Well, better...bigger.

Jasper Loy

18:15

Linux just has too many bugs these days.

Cerberus

And Windows hasn't?

Jasper Loy

When I used Windows, there was almost no problem.

I think those who have many problems are abusing their system somehow.

Cerberus

Haha possible.

Many others swear that their Linux is rock stable.

Jasper Loy

I think at the end of the day, whichever system you use is just a matter of taste. There aren't compelling reasons to use one over the other.

It's so hot here that one would die, has not rained for over two months.

Cerberus

Oh, wow.

I guess it's not the rainy season, then.

Is this normal?

Jasper Loy

18:24

Has not happened in over a century.

It is not normal.

Cerberus

Strange.

Is it harmful to forests and crops?

Oh, and have you seen any missing planes flying around?

Jasper Loy

Yes, and animals too.

No, that plane is still missing, also very strange.

Maybe this year is the end of the world.

Cerberus

Probably.

Hey, I have to run.

Later!

Jasper Loy

Me too, bye.

Cerberus

Ciao!

Jez

19:21

banbossy.com

this is a real thing in the US?

> When a little boy asserts himself, he's called a “leader.” Yet when a little girl does the same, she risks being branded “bossy.” Words like bossy send a message: don't raise your hand or speak up.

> Pledge to Ban Bossy.

David M

@Jez Sadly, this sort of bullshit comes up all of the time.

It hasn't hit critical mass yet that other dichotomies have.

Jez

what other dichotomies?

David M

Male vs. female promiscuity.

I'm trying to think of some others.

Jez

hmm?

you mean people who say males are too promiscuous?:

Cerberus

Promiscuous males are OK or even cool. Promiscuous females are sluts. That.

David M

19:36

@Cerberus Yes. That.

The bossy one is a euphemism for bitch. Most people call those women bitches, not bossy.

Cerberus

I think this is quite widespread among human societies.

David M

I dislike the notion that girls need to be protected from society. It's just as sexist as anything else. Just build up their self-esteem on a personal level, don't try to fix it through linguistic witch-hunts.

Cerberus

Ah.

Yeah, I think people who they can fix things by trying to change our language are mistaken.

But I have to go, I'm already late.

Later!

David M

Good night.

Cerberus

I know it's problematic, yes.

Kit won't even allow me to nigger here.

David M

19:41

I deleted it because I don't want to be flagged for using it.

Cerberus

It's like a taboo word whose sound alone "contaminates", even when used in reported speech or ironically.

I think that's really harmful.

David M

I personally only use it to describe the usage of the word. I think it's offensive otherwise.

@Cerberus Precisely

Cerberus

In Dutch, most people say neger, which is probably more comparable to negro.

David M

But, we have to conform to societal rules. The current climate in the U.S. makes it difficult for me to use it even in a linguistic description.

Cerberus

But I would probably not say neger on television.

@DavidM That is sad.

David M

19:42

@Cerberus It is.

And, I'm a person who would say fuck in front of a nun.

Cerberus

Our word nikker is probably equivalent to your nigger, but it is just mainly very old fashioned. Hardly anybody uses it, it's not really a hot topic.

Hah.

David M

I guess Rabbi would be better, given that I'm Jewish. But, he'd probably join me.

Cerberus

Hah.

At least Jews don't like holding back, stereotypically.

OK but I have to run, bai!

David M

Ciao.

Mitch

20:29

@Jez Ha ha. it must be a thing since there's a web site.

A little boy who is acting 'leaderly' is also called 'bossy'.

I'm not saying it's not overused for girls (I just don't know).

@JasperLoy It's just one plane. Don't start worrying until it starts happening all the time.

!!wiki latin kings

@JohanLarsson Aren't Latin Kings a gang in Chicago?

Latin Kings (gang)

The Almighty Latin King and Queen Nation (ALKQN, ALKN, LKN) is the largest and one of the most organized Hispanic street gangs in the United States of America, which has its roots dating back to the 1940s in Chicago, Illinois. Latin Kings Overview The Latin Kings street gang was formed in Chicago in the 1940s and consisted predominantly of Puerto Rican males. Although it was created by Puerto Ricans, most factions of the gang are now dominated by Mexicans, specifically in the Midwest, and Chicago - the city with the second largest Mexican population in the United States. The Latin Ki...

Jasper Loy

Wow, it's amazing that I have not deleted my account for three months, lol.

Jez

20:45

@Cerberus not like French niquer then :-)

oh fuck.

I've just realized that Rosetta Stone destroyed Livemocha. :-(

anyone know any sites that are like Livemocha but still alive?

Jez

21:06

fucking Rosetta Stone

i'm never buying one of their dumbass products

skullpatrol

Waste of good money

Jez

luckily i never wasted any of my money on em

capitalism results in such bullshit that's bad for society

3

perhaps there should be an automatic ban on all company buyouts unless a good social case can be made

they almost always destroy the bought out company and ruin its community

David M

21:24

I learned Italian from Rosetta Stone. It was easier than taking a formal class in my non-existent free time.

But, I haven't liked their expansion.

skullpatrol

Free enterprise = law of the jungle

David M

@skullpatrol The old expression: It's the worst system in the world, except for all of the other ones.

skullpatrol

True dat^

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…