English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

04:04

@Cerberus Noted.

And so to bed. I hope I don't dream of Zwart Piet.

Cerberus

@Robusto He may cane you with his roe!

Anonymous

Does "debauchery" always have to have a sexual connotation?

A quick Google search seems to tell me otherwise; however, even the Google definition is marked with "especially sexual or pleasurable".

Cerberus

I would say it does. However, it, like any word, can be used metaphorically.

Anonymous

I am just wondering this, because I don't know what other adjective to use besides "debauchery".

Cerberus

It is a noun.

Anonymous

04:11

I know it's a noun.

Typo there.

Cerberus

Ah.

Anonymous

Is there a similar word without the sexual meaning?

Cerberus

Depends on what you need it to mean?

There is splurge, indulgence, excess...

Anonymous

Here's an example: a young boy gets dangerously addicted to video games, a sensual pleasure.

Cerberus

I'm not sure I understand what it is supposed to mean there.

Anonymous

04:13

It's "sensual", because it's physical/material rather than spiritual.

Cerberus

Oh...that's not usually what sensual means.

Anonymous

What?

Sensual. adjective. of or arousing gratification of the senses and physical, esp. sexual, pleasure.

Cerberus

That is, it can mean "pertaining to the senses", but it usually means "pertaining to erotic desires".

Yes.

Anonymous

D'oh!

Even that has sexual meanings!

Cerberus

God is trying to trap you in sexual connotations!

You cannot escape!

Anonymous

04:16

Is there a non-sexual term?

Cerberus

There is the word "the". Perhaps that is asexual.

Anonymous

No, I mean a term that means similar to "pertaining to the senses" in a non-sexual way.

Cerberus

Sensory?

But I have no idea how that would fit into your sentence.

Why not use "of the senses"?

Anonymous

"Sensory" would be useful in anatomy.

Cerberus

It is a bit of a...scientific word.

Anonymous

04:19

I think "extremely pleasurable" will do.

Cerberus

Does that fit in your sentence?

Anonymous

Yep.

Cerberus

It would seem you need a noun...

Anonymous

@Cerberus You are from the Netherlands. Where did you learn to speak English?

Cerberus

Here?

Anonymous

04:20

They learn English in the Netherlands?

Cerberus

Yes, people learn English.

Anonymous

I thought they speak Dutch or Flemish there.

Cerberus

Yes, we speak Dutch, but we also learn other languages.

Anonymous

What is the official language?

Cerberus

Dutch.

Anonymous

04:21

Do you play Double Dutch jump rope?

Cerberus

(Flemish is a group of Dutch dialects/accents spoken in Belgium btw.)

@Anonymous We do play something like that, yes.

But I'm not sure what the rules are.

It is mostly played by little girls.

Anonymous

@Cerberus I only know of famous Flemish painters like Rembrandt.

I also know that the Dutch were obsessed with tulips and caused a Tulip Bubble.

I wonder how the Dutch people view tulips now.

Cerberus

@Anonymous Rembrandt was Dutch, not Flemish.

@Anonymous Corrent!

@Anonymous As the national flower. We're still pretty big in tulip exports.

> the Netherlands are the world’s biggest producer of commercially sold tulips, with as many as three million being sold each year. — blog.geotypico.com/why-tulips-are-typical-for-amsterdam-holland

tchrist

@Robusto About why whose ends in -se. @Cerb was also questioning whether -n had been a genitive inflection for OE pronouns, and I showed that for 1s and 2s, it had been, just not in the other numbers (1&2 d&p; 3 s&p).

Cerberus

@tchrist Right, but I'd prefer to call it a possessive-adjective-used-to-fill-up-the-missing-genitive.

Because a possessive adjective is really the same as a genitive pronoun: my house = the house of me.

tchrist

04:36

@Cerberus You say that as though it were different.

No.

My house = the house of mine.

Cerberus

It's technically different. And possessive adjectives have many more forms than just the pseudo-genitive, unlike real cases.

tchrist

mine is the genitive form.

Cerberus

Yes, but that is an unusual construction. The preposition of does not take the genitive normally.

But rather the dative, I would assume.

Or possibly the accusative.

tchrist

In current English we have only an oblique case.

Cerberus

But this is about the origin of -ne.

Which is no doubt the same as in French mon, Dutch mijn, German mein.

tchrist

04:40

And a genitive case. OE possessive adjectives were genitive pronouns that inflected according to the noun they are applying to.

Cerberus

Okay, I'm not sure about French mon at all.

tchrist

mon, ma, mes

Cerberus

@tchrist Well, a word can only have one case. It can't have two.

So you can't say "a genitive inflected as a dative" or something.

tchrist

I can say inflected as an adjective, and just did.

Cerberus

So my hypothesis is that there was an adjective on -n- that was used to supply the missing genitive.

tchrist

04:42

Cerberus

In Latin and Greek, too, a form of the possessive adjective was used to supply the missing genitive where necessary.

tchrist

Start with the genitive min.

Now add adjectival concordance.

Or maybe not.

Cerberus

Why was it missing? Because normally the functions of the genitive are expressive adjectivally ("mine house"); you only rarely need a substantive in the genitive with pronouns. So in that case, a form of the possessive adjective was simply used ubstantivally.

tchrist

The minum scipe example is bothering me.

They point out that that is the dative form of the possessive pronoun.

Cerberus

@tchrist Okay, well, I do not believe that is a correct approach to the historical development.

tchrist

04:46

> To make first- and second-person possessive adjectives, strong adjective endings are added to the genitive pronoun forms; these agree with the nouns they modify, not with their antecedents.

Cerberus

That is written for learners, I would say, not for etymologists.

It does not describe the historical development of how they came to be, but rather how you can, in practice, make the forms synchronically.

tchrist

Of course.

Cerberus

In German, I think you would use the genitive of the possessive adjective: dein Haus = das Haus deines.

tchrist

the house of yours

Cerberus

Yes, exactly.

tchrist

04:49

Cerberus

Why are you pasting that?

tchrist

Looking for the -um.

Dative strong adjective ending. On genitive min.

Cerberus

I still object to your calling that "genitive min".

Possessive -min.

tchrist

2 hours ago, by tchrist

Cerberus

Latin domus mea = "my house". Meum est = "that thing is mine (my [thing])". Amor tuus mei = "your love for me (of me)".

tchrist

04:52

Yes.

Cerberus

@tchrist Again, that is a synchronic designation, but it is not where it comes from historically.

So you can say the nominative or genitive form of the possessive adjective was used instead of the genitive, that it functioned as the genitive in practice, even that it "was" the genitive at that particular time; but you can't say that endings were stuck onto the genitive in other forms.

tchrist

I’m too tired to think.

And Randy won’t stop chasing the mouse-cursor.

Look at the pretty colors.

Now I rest.

Cerberus

Yes, yes.

Notice how uncer is the plural genitive of the possessive adjective unc (which does not seem to be mentioned): the ending of the plural genitive in Germanic is -er.

OK good night!

EnglishMaster

05:32

Stupid Ylvis

they are everywhere now

Cerberus

What?

EnglishMaster

So Ylvis is basically a group of singers from Norway

and they are popular in Korea now. Everyone set their mobile phones rington into The Fox

Cerberus

Oh, not that stupid video...

EnglishMaster

►

Gosh, you don't need modern technology to put up stones that high

Furthermore, most Korean people can't even understand the entire lyrics. They probably got interested in "The Fox" because it has catchy lyric part that goes like "Ring ding ding ding ding ding"

Plus, they do that weird dance

RegDwigнt

10:50

motherfuckingwebsite.com

Matt Эллен

11:36

@RegDwigнt so when's EL&U going to become so streamlined?

we'd close far fewer questions, then

RegDwigнt

11:47

@MattЭллен It is already streamlined like that. You're using a custom CSS file sneaked in by your government (to distract from the absence of porn).

Matt Эллен

And they'd have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!

now I want more porn on EL&U

RegDwigнt

I dunno, one Kit is enough. And we already have two.

Matt Эллен

12:03

I see the government's got to you, too. Trying to convince me that there's a surfeit of porn, when there isn't enough! I see through your lies.

RegDwigнt

If you see through my lies then you can see the porn alright, what's the problem?

Matt Эллен

It's all My Little Pony slashfic

RegDwigнt

Fic being German for fuck.

Matt Эллен

that explains everything

Cerberus

12:38

Hello.

> You thought you needed media queries to be responsive, but no. Responsive means that it responds to whatever motherfucking screensize it's viewed on. This site doesn't care if you're on an iMac or a motherfucking Tamagotchi.

@RegDwigнt I like.

I had a little bit of trouble scrolling on my Tamagotchi, though.

Matt Эллен

12:54

Hello.

Cerberus

How is all the writing stuff going?

Still fun?

Or...useful?

Matt Эллен

It's going alright. 8886 words left to go

Cerberus

Quite a lot.

Matt Эллен

it's useful as it's excercising my creativity

@Cerberus but doable by the end of Saturday

Cerberus

Hmm three A4 pages a day?

Matt Эллен

12:57

I don't know :D It's all digital

Cerberus

Wow, how modern!

You don't write in Word / Libre Office?

Matt Эллен

I write in emacs

a plaintext text editor

Cerberus

I see.

Oh, I have to go.

Matt Эллен

can't go wrong with monospaced fonts!

@Cerberus OK, see you.

Cerberus

Good luck and have fun with your monospaces...

Matt Эллен

12:59

Have fun with your going!

ƒâƒ

Cerberus

goes funnily

Robusto

13:17

TIL that Pago Pago (American Samoa) has always been pronounced /ˈpɑːŋɡoʊˈpɑːŋɡoʊ/ but was transliterated as Pago Pago because missionaries who provided printed materials to the natives ran out of the letter n in their fonts due to the fact that so many words in the native language have consonants following a vowel that are preceded by the /n/ sound. @tchrist take note.

Mitch

@Cerberus Sure it's a related fallacy of relevance as erroneously thinking you can't be racist if you're already in an oppressed race. False guilt by association. But there does exist true guilt by association (more often than not) and that can be used as a cover for the false kind.

Robusto

@Mitch I remember one black producer I used to work with who insisted that blacks couldn't be racist. I asked him what he thought about Korean grocers as a group.

Mitch

@Cerberus I didn't take it that you are saying that. Also, I am not sympathetic towards it. I find it annoying to confuse complaints about the actions of the Israeli government as anti-semitism.

But sometimes I've heard political opinions about Israel that are so strong and stated in such a fashion that they come across as, well, anti-semitic.

Matt Эллен

Man yo all hate Jews so much, why don't you just live there?

Gnintendo

13:32

quick grammar question: "a eugenics" or "an eugenics"

Mitch

@Robusto ikr! I was about to make a joke about the X (some of my best friends know X people) but... that would be racist. Shit, that's a meta-racist joke and I'm being meta-racist.

Robusto

@Gnintendo If you are using it as a modifier, "a eugenics [program] would suffice." If as a noun, no article is needed.

Gnintendo

it's a modifier

Robusto

Then the indefinite article is your boy.

Gnintendo

Thank you

Robusto

13:38

@Mitch I never meta-racist I didn't ...

Mitch

!!rimshot

KitSox

14:06

@Mitch Hey, diggy diggy

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Morning

KitFox

Hi!

I have a phone interview in ... whenever I can find my phone.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Just get someone to call it?

also: good luck!

also: I thought you got the job already

KitFox

I did get the job. This is for a different job.

But thanks.

I don't actually want this job. It's terrible timing.

The place where I do consulting work wants to talk to me about hiring me.

OK. Here goes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:26

So I saw this shirt for sale in the Eaton Centre in Toronto. That's the flagship shopping centre right downtown.

KitFox

14:56

Haha.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I still get the giggles when I think about that press conference.

KitFox

15:12

No-no-no-notorious.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's hilarious on so many levels

Like how the first part of what he says is contradicted by the second part

KitFox

And how he's got double-chins worth of eating at home.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

"It said I wanted to eat her pussy. I would never say that. That's disgusting. I am a married man, I have more than enough to eat at home"

KitFox

He must have thought they meant cats.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

He starts out by saying how it's disgusting to talk about eating someone's pussy then follows up with the rest.

KitFox

15:16

It's like he's on crack or something.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

lol

more than once he's been asked if he was high at that moment.

KitFox

"Yes, of course. Hoser."

bbl breakfast!

JSBձոգչ

!!hello

Matt Эллен

hello!!

JSBձոգչ

15:31

i was hoping @KitFox would say something to me

but she's being coy

er, i meant @KitSox

both of them are being coy

Matt Эллен

prehaps the joy of breakfast is so much that they're both speechless

JSBձոգչ

mmmm breakfast

i already ate breakfast

Matt Эллен

me too

JSBձոգչ

and now am basking in tea

Matt Эллен

and lunch

RegDwigнt

15:45

Ugh. Someone else downvoted an answer of @jonhanna's on which the only negative comment is mine. I hate it when that happens. Now it looks like I downvoted him. So I had to upvote him just for counterbalance. Muh.

Matt Эллен

people, eh?

RegDwigнt

Canadians, eh.

People are more like muh. See above.

Matt Эллен

there's no accounting for muh

JSBձոգչ

@RegDwigнt how do you say "nettles" in Russian?

RegDwigнt

There's no accounting for Muholland Drive.

@JSBձոգչ I misread that as "netties" and went to look it up.

JSBձոգչ

15:51

hee hee

RegDwigнt

Anyway, that plant thing would be crapiva.

It's crappy, eh?

Крапива

Крапи́ва () — род цветковых растений семейства Крапивные. Стебли и листья покрыты жгучими волосками (которые дали латинское название: «жгу»). Род включает в себя около 40—45 видов. Произрастают, в основном, в зоне умеренного климата в Северном и (реже) Южном полушариях. Наибольшее распространение в России имеют и . Жгучесть Многие виды крапивы защищаются от травоядных животных при помощи жгучих волосков, располагающихся на частях растений. Каждый волосок представляет собой крупную клетку, по форме напоминающую медицинскую ампулу. Верхняя часть «ампулы» выступает за пределы окружаю...

Mitch

@RegDwigнt you'll be blamed for a disingenuous upvote, also for truly wanting to downvote but not having the guts. Also you'll be blamed for that thing that time, dammit.

RegDwigнt

Well yes, that's the expanded form of "people, eh".

Matt always talks in acronyms.

Matt Эллен

Say little, infrequently

JSBձոգչ

@RegDwigнt thanks. i'll need this to notify a russion who's coming over

RegDwigнt

15:55

@MattЭллен There are so many telligent people out there.

@JSBձոգչ notify him of what? You making a soup?

Matt Эллен

:D

maybe it's for a sign to warn of nettles

Mitch

@RegDwigнt mmm...nettle soup.

RegDwigнt

You don't warn of nettles. Nettles warn of themselves just fine.

Kids these days.

Matt Эллен

Tch. Adults. So afraid of new technology

RegDwigнt

Signs are not new technology. Have you seen signs?

I mean, Mel frigging Gibson is in it!

And he's a priest.

That is so not new technology.

Matt Эллен

15:59

Sadly, I have seen it

RegDwigнt

Well then you know.

The newest technology in that movie was on Joaquin Phoenix's head.

JSBձոգչ

@RegDwigнt tea, actually

"warn" was the wrong word. but anyway.

RegDwigнt

I see. Skip the nettles, fast forward to blackcurrant.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt newer than just running into thing to see if they sting you

RegDwigнt

I dunno, that's pretty new. The oldest technology is not to run into any shit because every shit would sting you.

I just found 30 Euro in my breast pocket. Washed, by the feel of it.

Matt Эллен

16:02

fungible

JSBձոգչ

@RegDwigнt money laundering! i knew the russians were up to no good.

Matt Эллен

lol

RegDwigнt

Obvious joke is obvious. Obvious joker of the day: JSB.

If money laundering is about being 30 Euro richer than you were yesterday, but 0 Euro richer than you were three days ago, that's a crappy business.

Speaking of which, I overheard that banks in the US now plan to charge you for having money on your account. Brilliant.

Serves you right for bailing them out.

Matt Эллен

wow

RegDwigнt

Yeah low interest rates something something.

Basically the FED and the banks are screwing normal people over. Again.

Matt Эллен

16:06

oh. I have a paid for account. I should really downgrade back to a regular account

!!hi

KitSox

@MattЭллен Hello.

@JSBձոգչ Hi, stud.

Matt Эллен

!!Is KitFox writing?

KitSox

@MattЭллен I expect so

Jon Hanna

@RegDwigнt If it's english.stackexchange.com/questions/139101/… you are thinking of, I for one assumed that it was not you who down-voted.

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ Ohai!

KitSox

16:08

@KitFox JSBձոգչ is afk.

JSBձոգչ

@KitSox no i'm not! i'm back!

KitFox

Oh.

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ Look at what the cat dragged in...

RegDwigнt

@JonHanna yeah I figured you wouldn't, but everyone else still can.

I am still counting these.

KitFox

Wow.

RegDwigнt

16:08

Yeah.

Jon Hanna

It wasn't even negative; you didn't contradict me, you just went beyond.

RegDwigнt

Will be deleting in due time.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt congrats :)

RegDwigнt

@JonHanna well yes, but out of the four comments it's the most negative one.

@MattЭллен thank you. It was also preceded by a hyphen, not a dash. Now congrat me again.

Matt Эллен

Congrats

RegDwigнt

16:11

That's after me spending literally hours on replacing hyphens with dashes, including in the very file I was complimented on.

KitFox

That explains the number of exclamation points in the congrats, then.

RegDwigнt

I also sneaked in proper times signs everywhere. I wonder if they'll notice and replace them right back with Xs, or if they don't and then you'll be able to tell from the final book which pages are the ones I translated.

KitFox

You're getting me all titillated.

RegDwigнt

I'm watermarking books with signs, baby.

KitFox

swoons

!!is Matt writing?

KitSox

16:13

@KitFox Nope

Matt Эллен

clever girl

KitFox

Excellent.

taps fingertips together

RegDwigнt

I can't tell who of you is Pinky and who The Brain.

KitFox

!!are you thinking what I'm thinking?

KitSox

@KitFox Frankly my dear, I don't give a dean

KitFox

16:15

A dean?

Matt Эллен

dean martin?

KitFox

Who the hell wrote that?

RegDwigнt

Dean Norris

Dean Joseph Norris (born 1962/1963) is an American actor, best known for portraying DEA agent Hank Schrader on the AMC series Breaking Bad and town selectman James "Big Jim" Rennie on the CBS series Under the Dome. Early life Norris was born in South Bend, Indiana, to Jack, a furniture store owner, and Rosie Norris. He has four sisters. Norris graduated from Clay High School in 1981, He is a 1985 graduate of Harvard College, where he majored in social studies. He also attended the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. Career Norris starred in Tremors: The Series and the film Without Limits. ...

I like it how he was being born for two years straight.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt nice

@RegDwigнt at least you know he wasn't born two years gay

so Dean Norris was in Lost. I didn't recall seeing him there but it turns out he had like 4 lines in one episode. Thanks, Wikipedia, for mentioning that!

JSBձոգչ

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 wikipedia is very good and finding notable information, as this demonstrates

RegDwigнt

16:31

I only care about him being in BB and Starship Troopers.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt That’s a whole lotta bang for a buck.

KitFox

Oh yeah. Starship Troopers.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist Yeah, for zero bucks at that.

Matt Эллен

16:48

commute

KitFox

!!are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Damn. I broke her.

KitSox

@KitFox I think so, Brain, but calling it a pu-pu platter? Huh, what were they thinking?

KitFox

Excellent.

@RegDwigнt ftfy

RegDwigнt

17:06

commute

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…