English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

17:00

Hmm.

They do have seats in the EP.

But not in the Swedish parliament, I believe?

Johan Larsson

They scored 5% in some election to EU that noone cares about once.

@Cerberus correct

Cerberus

Hey, now. They're actually doing pretty good work in the EP.

TRiG

@Cerberus A while ago on a random trawl through the Internet, I landed on a page of an Israeli newspaper. After reading the article, I decided to search the paper for references to my own country, out of mild curiosity. It was only then that I discovered that in Israel, Ireland has a reputation as being anti-Israeli. I don't know how justified that reputation is.

Cerberus

@TRiG I thought almost every country in the world had a reputation in I. as being anti-I.? And rightly so.

I. is a "you either love them or hate them" country, and it's usually the latter.

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus I did not mean it like that, just that not many Swedes cares about the EU thing. Much less than the election for government that not many cares much about either afaik.

Cerberus

17:02

Sure.

tchrist

Yes: hating the Jews is a world-wide, age-old preöccupation. That doesn’t make it right.

Cerberus

But if they're voting anyway, why not vote for the PP?

@tchrist How can you say that? It is about the actions of the Israelian government. I couldn't care less about their religion.

Johan Larsson

Think it is an election for EU coming up now, they should get some TV-time then. I can report to you if I notice signs of life.

Cerberus

Haha OK.

TRiG

@tchrist And then you have those weird fundy Christians in the USA, who manage to "support Israel" and be rabidly anti-Semitic at the same time, I believe.

Cerberus

17:04

Voter turn-out for European elections is always low, but that means those interested in European politics will carry a heavier weight.

tchrist

@TRiG Those are dangerous nuts.

Cerberus

@TRiG Really? How does that work?

tchrist

@Cerberus It is very difficult to separate the two.

Cerberus

@tchrist Why? I find it not difficult at all.

TRiG

@Cerberus The want the State of Israel to exist, because it fits into their weird eschatology, but they don't actually like Jews very much.

Cerberus

17:05

Anti-semitism is now non-existent among the educated, and yet the majority are anti-Israel.

@TRiG Hmm odd.

tchrist

@Cerberus They want to bring about the end of the world. They believe this can occur only once the Temple of Solomon is rebuilt. But they also disapprove of Jews for not turning into Christians.

Cerberus

Funny...so that must be a small sect?

tchrist

@Cerberus I’m glad it’s so clear-cut to you. It’s not to me.

Cerberus

Why not?

tchrist

Because I can’t tell the difference when I see hatred.

Cerberus

17:07

We all have Jewish friends. We don't even notice.

TRiG

@Cerberus Plenty of prejudices still exist among the educated. They may be less immediately obvious, but they're still there.

tchrist

Unfortunately true.

Cerberus

Prejudices about Jews? Like what? How does that work?

TRiG

@Cerberus Anti-Semitism specifically I know little about, but I do know that educated people are not a prejudice-free zone.

Cerberus

Sure.

tchrist

17:08

►

Cerberus

But not about Jews, at least not here.

tchrist

There, it works like that.

Cerberus

Of course orthodox Jews are considered weird, just like orthodox Calvinists or Muslims.

But not most Jews.

It's just not an issue at all.

TRiG

@Cerberus Orthodox anything are weird.

Watching that video now.

Cerberus

Yeah. So that has nothing to do with it.

@tchrist I seriously wonder why you think educated people in Holland would be anti-Semites.

What gave you that impression?

They are sometimes somewhat anti-Muslim, but not anti-Jew.

In fact, I think most educated Jews here are also against what the Israeli government does.

TRiG

17:15

@Cerberus If anti-Semitism exists in the culture as a whole, it will exist also in the educated subset of the culture.

Cerberus

@tchrist I agree with his characterisation of primitive, extremist believers, but most believers are neither.

@TRiG Why?

Anti-Semitism is also rare and weak among the lower classes btw. Except among Moroccans, I think. But they're a bit...separate.

Cerberus

17:35

> U.S. authorities are also worried that if Europe establishes strict new data rules, countries in Latin America, the Middle East, Africa and Asia will tend towards the European model, setting a higher global data-protection threshold.

That would leave the United States either having to offer the same protections or lobbying to get countries to adopt its less rigid code of protection, creating an uneven playing field that could dent the competitiveness of U.S. firms.

I find this a bit hard to believe.

@mr.shiny I'm seeing this banner ad now:

Notice the book advertised at the bottom.

Do you see it too? pcworld.com/article/2064880/…

Matt Эллен

17:52

Anaïs

hmmm

q̈

it looks wrong over that i

ÿ

j̈

xẍx

ı̈

Cerberus

What the heck are you doing! That's not right!

My friend just called in tears, she has been dumped.

So I'll have to comfort her.

Matt Эллен

awww, bless

at least she has a shoulder to cry on

I'm playing with . ̈. because it is mean to be a combining diaeresis

it seems to be combining funny

Cerberus

18:13

Yes, it does not always display symmetrically.

Depending on the font and on the browser/OS, probably...

I have to take a shower now, later!

Matt Эллен

CU

tchrist

@MattЭллен You’re using the NFD instead of the NFC forms, and many fonts and browsers are bad with dynamic composition.

Matt Эллен

what are the NFC forms? where can I find them?

i¨ that doesn't look very combining-y

Ramón

tchrist

18:45

Anaïs

Ana\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH DIAERESIS}s

The current fonts we’re using here don’t handle combining characters well, so it works better if you can find a precombined version.

There exist for the common combos, but not the uncommon ones.

Matt Эллен

oh! thanks :)

I'll hunt them out

tchrist

macbook# perl5.16.0 -E 'say "Even Latin letters are hard without vowels." =~ s/(\S)/$1\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}/gr'
Ëv̈ën̈ L̈äẗïn̈ l̈ëẗẗër̈s̈ är̈ë ḧär̈d̈ ẅïẗḧöüẗ v̈öẅël̈s̈.̈

macbook# perl5.16.0 -E 'say "Even Latin letters are hard without vowels." =~ s/(\S)/$1\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}/gr' | nfc
Ëv̈ën̈ L̈äẗïn̈ l̈ëẗẗër̈s̈ är̈ë ḧär̈d̈ ẅïẗḧöüẗ v̈öẅël̈s̈.̈

macbook# perl5.16.0  -E 'say "Even Latin letters are hard without vowels." =~ s/(\S)/$1\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}/gr'
Ëv̈ën̈ L̈äẗïn̈ l̈ëẗẗër̈s̈ är̈ë ḧär̈d̈ ẅïẗḧöüẗ v̈öẅël̈s̈.̈

macbook# perl5.16.0 -E 'say "Even Latin letters are hard without vowels." =~ s/(\S)/$1\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}/gr' | nfc
Ëv̈ën̈ L̈äẗïn̈ l̈ëẗẗër̈s̈ är̈ë ḧär̈d̈ ẅïẗḧöüẗ v̈öẅël̈s̈.̈

macbook# perl5.16.0 -E 'say "Even Latin letters are hard without vowels." =~ s/(\S)/$1\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}/gr' | uniwc
   Paras    Lines    Words   Graphs    Chars    Bytes File
       0        1        7       44       81      118 standard input
macbook# perl5.16.0 -E 'say "Even Latin letters are hard without vowels." =~ s/(\S)/$1\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}/gr' | nfc | uniwc
   Paras    Lines    Words   Graphs    Chars    Bytes File
       0        1        7       44       58      104 standard input

The number of graphemes doesn’t change.

Look for code points whose names include LATIN and LETTER and WITH.

Matt Эллен

thanks. emacs tab completion is helping :D

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: There once was a marvellous font Perfect for creating détente It had quite some verve And the sha…

posted on November 24, 2013 by sgdi

There once was a marvellous font Perfect for creating détente It had quite some verve And the shape of its curves Would make readers do just what you want

tchrist

Á  00C1	LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH ACUTE
á  00E1	LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH ACUTE
À  00C0	LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH GRAVE
à  00E0	LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE
Ă  0102	LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH BREVE
ă  0103	LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH BREVE
Ắ  1EAE	LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH BREVE AND ACUTE
ắ  1EAF	LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH BREVE AND ACUTE
Ằ  1EB0	LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH BREVE AND GRAVE
ằ  1EB1	LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH BREVE AND GRAVE
Ẵ  1EB4	LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH BREVE AND TILDE

Just to name a few.

Matt Эллен

18:58

thanks!

tchrist

Those are all the ones >= A && < B.

In certain senses.

Cerberus

19:24

A Malinese voter.

If only we could get away with an outfit like that.

I love it.

Johan Larsson

20:24

who is stopping you?

you is stopping you right?

tchrist

20:51

bingo

Cerberus

21:03

@JohanLarsson Uhuh.

Johan Larsson

I'm stopping myself from wearing my bathrobe to work

for now

Mitch

@JohanLarsson Be a trend setter.

Johan Larsson

The dude already did it?

I'm just a follower

not even trendy

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson We both know you won't stick to that resolution...

Johan Larsson

If I have to work on xmas I will do it for sure

Cerberus

21:17

Heh.

Johan Larsson

or maybe tomorrow, they booked me in meetings even if they know I don't want to meet.

<- afk

Mitch

@Cerberus A lot of people consider anti-israel to be anti-semitism.

TRiG

21:31

@Mitch Well, the two can be related, and probably quite often are.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Sounds like a good opening speech during the meeting.

"I don't want to meat you people!"

@Mitch That's ridiculous. Do they consider anti-Russia to be anti-eastern-orthodoxism?

@TRiG Why would you think that? That is not at all the case here.

Sure, antisemites will also hate Israel, but not the other way around.

An apple is a fruit, but not the other way around.

Matt Эллен

but I hate all fruit because of apples. you know what they say "one bad apple..."

KitFox

That's a terrible joke.

Matt Эллен

I see we've never met. My name's Matt "all my jokes are terrible" Ellen.

KitFox

Hello. It's a pleasure.

Matt Эллен

21:36

Enchanted

KitFox

(I got annoyed and left.)

Matt Эллен

bows

KitFox

fluffs tail

I'm still stuck.

Suddenly my story is really uninteresting to me.

Matt Эллен

I've moved from the future to the present, avoiding the problem all together!

@KitFox hmmm. what has turned you off it?

KitFox

I have a notion about what's going on, but no vehicle for my main characters to find out.

Matt Эллен

21:38

except now I'm stuck trying to think how to get my other set of characters to do anything

@KitFox random escaped prisonner causes panic

KitFox

So I could shift to Isis, but then it's all "hey, look, revealing plot"!

Matt Эллен

allows some kind of explanation to unfold

KitFox

@MattЭллен Hmm. Hmm! HMMM!

OK. That could work. Let me try.

Matt Эллен

:D

KitFox

> Nicene shrugged. “Let’s see the rabbits.”

Matt Эллен

21:40

yay!

KitFox

I just deleted stuff! On purpose!

Want to sprint? Or are you eating or something?

Oh sugar wafers. brb

Cerberus

@MattЭллен One bad apple, so we throw away all the the Jews, is that it?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus that's what we do with infected livestock

we should treat people like livestock, that way I know who I can eat and who I can milk

4

Cerberus

Umm...

Noted.

Matt Эллен

I'm not sure either

Cerberus

21:43

Or both.

KitFox

Cheeseburger.

Cerberus

One leads to the other.

KitFox

Yum.

So wrong, yet so very right.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox oh! sorry. yes!

KitFox

Ready?

Matt Эллен

21:44

yes

KitFox

Well, let's go! Fifteen minutes.

Matt Эллен

22:02

about 200 or so

KitFox

Oh, I forgot to check my word count before I started writing on that scene.

Matt Эллен

yeah, me too :D

KitFox

I think I did around 300.

But I wrote a lot in the last little bit.

Matt Эллен

I think I'd just passed 40500

KitFox

Yay!

You are getting so close!

Matt Эллен

22:03

I know! I'm not sure how I'll fit all of it in. I might do a lot of transition between the future and the present

KitFox

I'm going to make a cup of tea and write some more, provided the children aren't destroying the house.

Matt Эллен

OK

I'm going to try and reach 41k

KitFox

How many times have I heard that? "It's so huge, I don't know how I'm going to fit it all in!"

Matt Эллен

lol

more often than me, that's for sure

KitFox

It'll probably take me 15 minutes. See how much you can write while I'm gone.

@MattЭллен snerkle

Matt Эллен

22:05

will do!

tchrist

KitFox

I hate nuts in my brownies.

Also, cookies.

Matt Эллен

I like nuts in my brownies. I'll eat them!

KitFox

You are a nut.

Matt Эллен

238

nearly at my quota!

not wth enough time to watch Dr. Who? though

KitFox

22:20

I thought you were already at your quota.

And you're not allowed to watch The Doctor until I can.

Matt Эллен

oh, my quota for weekends is 3k per day

@KitFox you're allowed to watch The Doctor

:Þ

KitFox

> “I’m Levi.” He smiled in a smug way that made Nicene almost shove him backward down the stairs.

I guess Levi has become my former project lead.

Matt Эллен

lol

OK. time for me to be off

happy writing, @KitFox!

KitFox

@MattЭллен Have fun! CU!

Matt Эллен

CU

tchrist

22:38

Johan Larsson

23:01

Spock has a lesbian haircut.

Gf calls it flatlugg

Mitch

@Cerberus It may be ridiculous but not in the way of comparison to Russian.

@JohanLarsson Isn't it called 'page boy' or 'cereal bowl' haircut?

what does 'flatlugg' mean?

Johan Larsson

flata = dyke
lugg = the part of your hair that is in your forehead

did not find a translation

Cerberus

23:18

@Mitch How do you mean?

@JohanLarsson Bangs.

In Dutch we call it by the English word "pony", isn't that odd?

Perhaps because ponies often have bangs?

Johan Larsson

I think Horses in general have them

@Cerberus ty sir

Cerberus

What is lugg related to?

Could it be related to layer? Or log?

Johan Larsson

no idea, don't know where to look either

Cerberus

I smell weed.

I actually like the smell.

Johan Larsson

bangs showed up in google translates suggestions but sounded so dumb

Cerberus

23:27

That's English for you.

Fringe (hair)

Bangs, or a fringe (UK and Australian English), is a shaped cutting of the front part of the hair so that it lies over the forehead. Classically it is cut fairly straight at or above the eyebrows, but they can also be ragged or ruffled, spiked up with hair gel, swept to one side or the other, or cut longer to fall over the eyes. Terminology The term bangs originally referred to a hair cut bang-off (straight across at the front). The term fringe refers to the resemblance of the short row of hair to ornamental fringe trim, such as that often found on shawls.It is probably related to ban...

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…