English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

16:00

Probably not.

Andrew Leach

Ask her to hand over everything she's got so the next incumbent of the post doesn't have to start completely from scratch. Then examine it and come to a conclusion.

KitFox

But the next person doesn't even need her data, much less her analysis.

There is a truck going beep, beep, beep outside my window.

It's making me feel angry.

Andrew Leach

@KitFox Doesn't matter: use that as the excuse.

@KitFox That might help...

KitFox

No, no, I am not interested in her work at all. I don't want to be involved in this project, or in her departure.

Andrew Leach

Manufacture an emergency and avoid the meeting :)

Johan Larsson

16:17

@KitFox sounds like bs, also her manager would be better suited to answer that I think

gotta be manager work after all

KitFox

I should think so.

So who do I tell when the manager is blaming the employee for being poorly managed?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So you're being asked to question her about "where she got her data", without making it look like you're asking her where she got her data?

Johan Larsson

The easy way out is to juist answer that you don't know anything specific about her work

or lack thereof

KitFox

No, they want us to use the "where did you get your data" to assess her work.

At least I know on to hold out any hope of niceness when I leave.

Johan Larsson

@KitFox I don't know about the US but in Sweden you can just say that straight out I think

Just missing out on some brown-nose points

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

16:22

@KitFox Is there a union? an ombudsperson?

KitFox

I did call my union rep.

Andrew Leach

@KitFox The manager's manager. All the way to the top. Do you have an established grievance procedure which your HR department must follow? Do you have a Visitor or somesuch at your institution?

I need to leave for home. Let us know how you get on.

KitFox

@AndrewLeach I belong to a union, and there is a grievance process, but it doesn't make sense for me to follow it, since it is her, not me.

The manager's manager...well, that's a whole nother ball of political wax, speaking of mismanagement.

Also, I'm not in the best of positions, given that I am looking for employment elsewhere.

Johan Larsson

16:40

Can you ask her manager what she has reported to him and what he has asked her

camouflage it like you don' want to repeat work already done

KitFox

I don't think I can ask that without seeming hostile.

Johan Larsson

What would happen if you seemed hostile?

And how long was her research supposed to go on for?

KitFox

I have no idea.

Cerberus

Wow. There is this Facebook site supporting Zwarte Piet (Black Pete), and it got a million followers in a day; and now 100,000 followers join the group per hour.

Johan Larsson

I would not expect much to be produced the first month if it was supposed to be going on for a year

Cerberus

16:43

facebook.com/pietitie Join it if you want to protect Dutch cultural heritage against UN/PC aggression and ignorance.

Johan Larsson

Lists of todos and reading

KitFox

UN/PC aggression?

Cerberus

United Nations / Political Correctness.

KitFox

Reminds me of "The War of Northern Aggression".

@JohanLarsson She's been with us for a year or so, I think. I should check.

Johan Larsson

oh a year, then there should be some stuff

but also a lot of work to do a postmortem on what someone has done for that long

the whole thing is so strange I can't even think of anything but wtf really

KitFox

16:48

It's been about a year and seven months, I guess.

@Cerberus It's funny how Southerners make the same argument about "heritage not hate".

Cerberus

I don't know what that is about.

KitFox

I don't know what you mean about protecting your cultural heritage, I guess.

Cerberus

A certain UN agency is trying to "forbid" what is by far the most popular children's holiday in Holland, because it is a about a Catholic Saint with a black servant.

KitFox

Links? I have to get to a meeting. I'll read later.

Cerberus

dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/10/…

JSBձոգչ

16:56

> 92% of the Dutch do not associate Zwarte Piet with slavery and 91% oppose any efforts to change his appearance. - See more at: dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/10/…

that's a pretty resounding majority

Cerberus

I should be noted that Zwarte Piet was only made up around 1850, after the age of slavery. Besides, black slaves did not exist in Holland proper, and there is absolutely no reason to think ZP would have been intended as a slave. On the contrary, his fine clothing, his important function as St Nicolaas's personal servant, and his authority to reward and punish children point to a valet rather than a slave.

@JSBձոգչ Quite.

JSBձոգչ

i suspect that the reaction against it is influenced by the much more offensive tradition of blackface in the US

Cerberus

There was a recent poll where 90+ % of 1400 people in Amsterdam do not associate ZP with slavery and do not think he is in any way linked to discriminaiton.

@JSBձոգչ Quite possibly. The UN woman in question is a black woman from Jamaica, where they had black slaves.

KitFox

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we've had the 'blackface' discussion already.

Cerberus

If you live in a country where black slavery and apartheid were a big thing, or even a recent thing, I can understand why people get over-sensitive.

KitFox

16:58

I wouldn't find it nearly so offensive if it weren't for the blackface.

He's supposed to be covered in soot, not a caricature of a stereotype.

Cerberus

But the mere fact that ZW is a subordinate character in garish clothing? What if it had been a woman? Or a gay elf? Nobody would have cared, not even at the UN.

KitFox

I don't think that's true.

Cerberus

We have plenty of popular public acts where people have a gay sidekick, right? It is not a problem. It doesn't mean gays are inferior.

KitFox

It's like Tonto.

You have to be careful how you treat your sidekicks.

Cerberus

Although I have no problem with including some white Pieten. But the black ones should stay.

I don't know Tonto. Is it Toronto, but in Mr Shiny's local accent?

KitFox

17:01

How about they stay without the curly wigs and bright red lips?

Why don't you just make them into proper clowns?

Cerberus

Why are those problematic?

They're not even about skin colour.

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus because they remind people of blackface

Cerberus

They're not exactly clowns. They're not really very silly.

KitFox

@Cerberus Tonto is the Lone Ranger's sidekick. Tonto means stupid in Spanish. He was Native American who didn't speak good English.

Anyway, meeting.

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Okay, well, I don't know anything about that, and we don't have it here. So I don't see how that should be relevant to the Dutch tradition, if I may be so blunt.

Never heard of Lone Ranger...

JSBձոգչ

17:03

@Cerberus and i basically agree with you. but nearly all americans will nonetheless associate it with their own history and draw their own conclusions

even i feel like it's risky

and would never do it in the US

(of course, not being dutch, i don't do it at all)

Cerberus

Well, they are allowed their own opinions.

Frankly I really, honestly don't understand what's so problematic about something that is only about appearances.

Now if ZP were tied to a cross and tortured, that would be something else.

Wait, don't certain traditions have processions where the image of a Jew tortured to death is carried around? How is that not offensive?

(The answer is: it is not offensive, because people know it is not meant in an offensive way.)

Does this look like an abused slave? The title says "St Nicholas and his Servant".

Slave = slaaf, but this word has never, ever been used for Zwarte Piet.

The good kids are rewarded on the left, the bad kids punished on the right.

Usually Zwarte Piet does both, but this is the original book in which the black servant appeared, ca. 1850.

The holiday and the tradition are of course many centuries older, I think it was already celebrated in some way in the Middle Ages.

Okay, another 50,000 people have joined the Facebook group since I first mentioned the page to you people, half an hour ago.

Matt Эллен

17:18

eventually all of Netherlands will be members

Cerberus

Yay!

6 million people are on Facebook here.

But Belgians also have Zwarte Piet.

By the way, that VN woman even confuses Sinterklaas with Santaclaus, which means she knows absolutely zero about it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:34

@Cerberus In the local dialects "Toronto" might be pronounced "taranna" but never something like "tonto"

Matt Эллен

Yeah, that would be stupid

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Too bad.

@MattЭллен Racist!

Anonymous

There was actually a Language Log post that touched on pronunciations of Toronto: Chranna and Fluffya

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus hey, I'm just speaking the Spanish

Cerberus

Hi!

Matt Эллен

17:44

Hablo Español, sí?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен I thought Spaniards said stupido...

Anonymous

Hello!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus estupido y tonto

Cerberus

Eso.

> OS X Mavericks breaks multi-monitor setups with some USB displays
"Regressions" in OS X break DisplayLink screens—and only Apple can fix them.

Some applications can show severe flickering on DisplayLink screens. Examples of applications that show this issue are Safari, QuickTime, and the App store.
Some applications can show corruption and/or missing contents while updating windows contents. Examples are Maps, iBooks, and the Dock.
Display arrangement is not kept when using 2 or more DisplayLink displays.

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен do you know a way to return a completed Task. I'm looking for the equivalent of Task.Fromresult(void)

Cerberus

17:47

When will Apple start producing decent quality again?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus lol. again? pfft.

Johan Larsson

    private async Task Download()
    {
        if (_isDownloading)
            return **??**;

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm being kind.

I can't believe why people still buy Apple products.

The latest Iphone has a severe sensor issue, where games become unplayable.

Not to mention other, more serious applications that depend on the accelerometer.

Johan Larsson

nvm, just return; seems to do it

Matt Эллен

yay!

sorry, I was serving up my food

Cerberus

17:49

Congrats.

Matt Эллен

bbl - e tin

Cerberus

Hah.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@snailboat Chranna I can understand. It's a straightforward tr->chr and final -nt- -> -n-. But "fluffya"? yeesh

Cerberus

> This isn't the first time a new version of OS X has resulted in trouble for some users.

In the case of Mountain Lion, some of the DisplayLink bugs existed until OS X 10.8.5, which came out more than a year after the initial Mountain Lion release. DisplayLink's support article for Mountain Lion shows that it can take a while to get everything right:

Kernel panic when using Bluetooth devices. Fixed by Apple in 10.8.1.
Screensaver may start running unexpectedly. Fixed by Apple in 10.8.2.
Kernel Panic on USB 3.0 with DL-3000 devices. Fixed by Apple in 10.8.2.

Meh, I guess Microsoft is no better.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Actually I'd argue that MS is way better about that sort of thing.

You don't have to wait for an OS point release to get fixes like that, usually

They have a huge compatibility-testing lab where they test thousands of configurations

Cerberus

17:54

I suppose they patch it quicker.

But Windows 8.1...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

As much as I dislike MS, they are pretty good at OS releases, all things considered.

Cerberus

I s'pose.

Why do they call the latter "density independent"? The sizes are different: is that "independent"?

Android has only four levels of discrete size/density, no gradual increase/decrease.

Johan Larsson

I'm a bit ashamed to say i don't have anything against MS, mostly thanks to .net and VS though

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus "density independent" means that it isn't bound to the DPI of the screen.

Cerberus

Hehe.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And yet it is.

They just jump between 4 discrete levels.

Look how those squares are different sizes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:56

@Cerberus There are way more than 4.

Cerberus

> Android's APIs specify four different scaling levels based on the density of your screen (ldpi, mdpi, hdpi, and xhdpi).

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus that's out of date

Cerberus

Is it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

ayup

there's at least one level higher than xhdpi: xxhdpi. and there's one for TVs, tvdpi

and maybe one more.

Anyway the point is that screen density could theoretically be anything, in practice the discrete levels will be good enough.

And considering how hard it has been to make developers pay attention to DPI, it's a big improvement.

One reason computer monitor resolution hasn't gone much higher than 1080p is that operating systems and apps don't support it well.

Whereas Android has no problem with much higher resolutions.

Cerberus

> Note: Beginning with Android 3.2 (API level 13), these size groups are deprecated in favor of a new technique for managing screen sizes based on the available screen width. If you're developing for Android 3.2 and greater, see Declaring Tablet Layouts for Android 3.2 for more information.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:00

because from the beginning it has encouraged dpi-independant programming.

Anonymous

And websites. A lot of websites don't adapt well to resolutions far outside what the designer was using

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@snailboat yeah. websites, apps, basically everything. screen-size/dpi is one more configurable feature that developers need to test.

Cerberus

I find that many websites have fonts that are a bit smaller than is comfortable. But my PPI is not that great, 1920x1080, 22" diagonal.

Anonymous

I'm in the same resolution, but at 27" diagonal, and I'm wearing glasses :-)

Cerberus

So I wonder why that is.

Heh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:02

@Cerberus That's for specifying layouts, and not for dealing with dpi.

Anonymous

Everything's a little bit smaller than it used to be. I used to have a 24" 1366x768 display

Cerberus

Hmm.

Anonymous

A lot of things on computers aren't really resizeable smoothly. I mean, sure, you can make stuff different sizes. But it's not the same because displays aren't really analog

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm afraid this is all a bit too technical for me.

Anonymous

I mean, I still use xterm with font fixed.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:03

@Cerberus that sentence you quoted was about size, not dpi.

Cerberus

All I was saying is that those screenshots didn't have the same button the same size.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

so 4" vs 5" vs 7"

Cerberus

@snailboat Who?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, not exactly the same size. And that IS due to the discrete DPI levels. however the second example is better than the first, no?

Anonymous

@Cerberus What?

Cerberus

18:04

Certainly.

But hardly "independent".

@snailboat Xterm?

J'comprends pas.

Anonymous

@Cerberus Oh! xterm is a terminal program for X11.

Cerberus

Oh...

Anonymous

xterm is where I live when I'm not visiting a graphical web browser.

Anonymous

Old habits die hard :-)

Anonymous

I've tried using a lot of terminals with various anti-aliased fonts over the years. It'd be particularly nice for Japanese and other Unicode-y things, at least in theory

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:06

@Cerberus The point is that there are two kinds of pixels you can use in your coding. One is the device dependent pixel. It exactly corresponds to a pixel element in the screen. The other is the device independent pixel. It is approximately the same size on all devices, irrespective of the underlying dpi.

Anonymous

But I always come back to fixed. I think it's the best font.

Anonymous

(At this point, I don't think I know anyone who agrees with me.)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@snailboat anti-aliasing fonts is not the same as font-spacing. Are you sure you're not mixing those two issues?

Anonymous

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm referring to -Misc-Fixed-Medium-R-SemiCondensed--13-120-75-75-C-60-ISO10646-1 by the alias "fixed"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@snailboat so a fixed-width font.

But you can anti-alias a fixed-width font.

Anonymous

18:09

No, this is a bitmap font.

Anonymous

So yes, it's fixed-width, but no, you shouldn't try to AA it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

ah

well, I've found that most of the non-bitmap fonts that I've used are fine for terminals.

Whatever Fedora/KDE ships as the default font in Konsole, works for me.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:27

lately my mouse is very erratic. It seems to be super jumpy, whenever I mouse-over the Firefox window

MετάEd

19:08

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Optical?

Jez

weird

youtube has started having steaming issues, but only when im in fullscreen mode

MετάEd

@Jez Youtube steams because that shit is fresh.

Jez

*streaming

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And the second one is what all applications should use, right?

Except that the name "pixel" is silly.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MετάEd yeah, wireless optical.

Cerberus

19:18

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 In my experience, Microsoft's mice are very stable, reliable, and long-living.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus welp. This is a Microsoft Wireless Mouse 2000

it's about 1.5 years old

Cerberus

Oh, wireless.

The last one I had been using for 5+ years when my house burned down. Maybe have been 10 years, even.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The wireless bit might have something to do with it, but why only the FF window?

Cerberus

I bought the same mouse again in 2010, still very stable.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 In my experience, FF is very something-heavy.

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: This ain't a love song

posted on October 23, 2013 by sgdi

A giant but docile panda Was singing a song to Amanda She couldn’t hear words Just barks, snorts and grrrs It was some bamboo propaganda

Cerberus

19:19

Many Windows things are slower in Firefox.

So maybe it's not the mouse but software.

Firefox also uses the video card, probably.

Mouse gestures perhaps worse in Firefox than in any other application.

KitFox

Well, that sucked.

Two and a half hours.

Matt Эллен

that's a looooong meeting

Cerberus

> The company is willing to change screen aspect ratios and densities when necessary, but only rarely (once every couple of years seems to be the norm) and in the least disruptive way possible. Even when switching from the 960×640 of the iPhone 4 and 4S to the 1136×640 of the iPhone 5 and 5S, Apple only changed the size of the screen in one direction.

The downside of this approach is that it limits just what hardware Apple can use for its displays.

KitFox

Yep.

Cerberus

Could Apple's software really be what's holding back its screen sizes?

Matt Эллен

19:24

@KitFox how did it go?

KitFox

Welp.

The first hour-ish, she presented her research.

Matt Эллен

good

KitFox

The sum tota of my reaction to it was: SPSS is not a database.

Matt Эллен

although no doubt boring

ahhh, SPSS, my old friend

KitFox

Meh. It was OK. I could identify with many of her issues.

But also for a good deal of them, the solution was to not use a data analysis program to handle your data.

Matt Эллен

19:31

yeah

KitFox

Small wonder it has taken her a year and a half to do one year's worth of data.

So, as expected, I didn't find her work stellar.

And also, as expected, the bosses pressed her with ridiculous assertions.

Matt Эллен

they were there too?

KitFox

And the entire thing, post-meeting and all, boiled down to "We just need to know where she put the raw data files. And if she doesn't give them to us, we can get them from that guy."

@MattЭллен Yes. Six of us in a small, hot office.

And her, for the first hour or so.

Matt Эллен

how intimate

@KitFox wow.

KitFox

The thing that I had to quickly look at the table for so my sideways boss wouldn't see me roll my eyes...the woman gets done presenting, and the sideways boss says, "Well, you haven't shown us the files yet."

And the woman says, "I'm still sorting them out."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:35

@Cerberus I suspect it is. Consider how when they launched the ipad they just put regular iphone apps in the middle of the screen, or just doubled the size of everything.

Cerberus

Hmm yes, that was rather awful.

Could it also be holding the size of the Iphone back?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox you think she has them?

KitFox

And the s. boss pressures her into plugging her computer back into the display and going to the file menu to show her where some of the files are, for example.

Cerberus

I.e. their software is so crappy their users are stuck with crappy/outdated hardware?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox harsh

KitFox

19:36

Then, afterward, the s. boss says something like "And she still hasn't answered my question about where those files are. I thought that was the point of this meeting, to sit down and she would show us right where those things are. Maybe we need to have another meeting."

And I am thinking, seriously, wtf is wrong with you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Or rather the apps in the app store are so badly coded. I doubt it's a failing of the underlying framework. Well, I mean, it might be. I haven't seen any frameworks do it as well as Android does. But I haven't investigated iOS development

@KitFox wait. srsly? they really just wanted to know where the physical files were?

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The one boss did. She was hanging onto that like a yappy dog on an old lady's sweater.

And this even after we knew where to go get them.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But then why are the applications so badly coded...?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus because they are lazy and poorly disciplined and because "the iphone isn't fragmented like shitty ol' Android"

KitFox

And this even after I pointed out that it wouldn't even be an issue if she'd been working remotely off a server instead of carrying datafiles with confidential information in them around on her laptop.

Not to mention if she had put her damn data in a database instead of SPSS.

MετάEd

19:39

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I sometimes get lint or a cat hair stuck in front of the LED or the optical sensor.

KitFox

But nobody wanted to hear that, because that would be their fault and not the woman who is leaving's.

Follow-up email just now: "Also, [other boss] will set up a time with you to go over the actual files on your laptop."

People are just so fucking stupid here.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MετάEd yeah. I don't think it's a physical problem. It seems to affect certain apps only.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Uhh that doesn't sound very plausible.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox so did the non-bosses have any rôle in the meeting? Or were you there just for intimidation?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus why not? It's the reason why desktop DPI hasn't significantly changed in decades.

The OS can handle high DPI relatively easily. It's the apps that can't.

And the apps can't because they've never been coded to support it.

KitFox

19:42

@MattЭллен They prodded us several times to ask us what else we needed from S. before she left.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And developers never bothered to do that because there was no reason to do that.

Cerberus

But...

KitFox

To which we answered the same every time: Nothing.

Matt Эллен

:D

Cerberus

Apple could make a screen of 5" with the same PPI they have now.

And yet they can't.

KitFox

19:43

"Yes, but if one of you, and we don't know who yet, took over the project, just the data part, what would you need?"

"Nothing."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus There are two issues. Screen size and DPI

Matt Эллен

because you'd have to start from scratch

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, and 326 PPI would seem to be enough for everyone.

KitFox

And since they haven't decided who to hand the project off to, four of us are taken off task for two and a half hours to listen to pointlessness.

Cerberus

So it is rather the screen's size in pixels that counts.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:45

@Cerberus No. It is both issues. They are related and linked.

Cerberus

But they can do 326 PPI already.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Right. I suppressed my snarky attitude, but I almost said "I would need to know what the project was about, what data you need for it, and how you plan to analyze it."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus But some iphone apps have black bars at the top and bottom on the iphone 5.

Cerberus

But are the buttons/fonts too small?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No, because the PPI doubled.

Matt Эллен

19:47

@KitFox Would have been an interesting conversation :D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But if they were to make a 6" iphone 6, that was wider AND taller than the iphone 5, then apps that rely on a certain width would break. or have to have black bars all around.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That only makes sense because there happens to be a "2x" requirement for IOS applications.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You'll note that Android provides for both different size screens AND different DPI. iPhone devs have never had to worry about either of those things changing.

KitFox

@MattЭллен You want to talk in The Overlook?

Matt Эллен

OK :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:49

@Cerberus no. It's not "2x for iOS". It's because you can trivially scale an app 2x.

@KitFox sorry, are we drowning you out?

Cerberus

Because they are/were instructed to provide images etc. at twice the size, right?

RegDwigнt

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, no, it's fine. There's no one talking in the Overlook right now, so easier if we split up.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt I don't see you. But the two-headed person is a start.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Because an app that displayed an image at 320x200 can display that exact same image on a new screen that is 640x400, simply by making each pixel 4x as big (2x each direction)

@RegDwigнt Yeah I heard about the mech suit

Cerberus

19:50

Yeah, so they could double the size of everything.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus which they DID.

they did it for ipad and they did it for iphone 4.

Cerberus

But then what happens when the size doubles again?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

well, it can't easily double again

Cerberus

1280x800.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

well, I don't know what the real values are

Cerberus

19:52

Most new phones are already at 1920x1080...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

but the point is that they're not going to raise the PPI to 652.

Cerberus

Not yet.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It would cost too much and provide no benefit. Most people already can't see the pixels.

Cerberus

And you think that's what should hold people back? Pah!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Actually I do think so.

Cerberus

19:53

Honestly, I don't think I would care if my phone had 960xsomething.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

People will be in a store and be unable to tell which screen looks better

Cerberus

They already are.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Sure, they are. That's because the screens are already mature enough that more PPI doesn't matter

Cerberus

1920x1080 @ 4.7" is already almost indistinguishable from 1280x800 on the same screen.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

exactly

Cerberus

19:54

What is that, 330 PPI v. 480 PPI?

And yet manufacturers continue to frantically increase the size.

Why stop now?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Hardly. The iphone 4 came out 2010. It raised the bar to 300+ dpi. Now phones are pushing 400. That's hardly noticeable. Below 300dpi the pixels are visible and so each gain is important. After that each gain is invisible.

I don't think they're frantically increasing the dpi.

They are, however, frantically increasing the DPI of all the devices that never got increased the first time. Tablets, etc.

my tablet and my phone had the same resolution, only the phone was 4" and the tablet was 10.

Cerberus

The HTC One had 468 six months ago.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Now the tablets have the same 300-400 dpi as the phones.

Cerberus

Yeah that is kind of nice, you can probably still see the difference, even at the distance you normally keep a tablet at.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus oh it's instantly obvious.

Cerberus

19:58

But is it worth it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I noticed it the first time I saw one of the high-res tablets

@Cerberus yes, depending on what you use it for

Cerberus

Would I pay extra if I could increase my computer screen's PPI by 100?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway it doesn't matter because it is becoming standard.

@Cerberus Assuming you could actually do that? Yes, I think you would. Your computer probably is 100dpi.

Cerberus

All I'm saying is I don't see why 468 PPI should be some kind of barrier at which people start seeing more doesn't make sense any more.

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