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00:43
@Robusto OPTION #1 Jesuits: Give us a child to rear for 7 years, and he ours for life. OPTION #2: Wet Nurses Inc: Give us a child to breast-feed for 7 years, and he is an addict for life.
Your choice, sir?
Gives a whole new meaning to your regularly scheduled kindergarten milk&cookies break.
@tchrist #2. I'll give nothing to the Jesuits, TYVM.
Or to any religion, for that matter.
then religion will give nothing to you
(or so they say)
:-)
01:08
9000 hours later...
@Robusto It’s weird. My dad was not a believer, but they’re arranging to have Christian minister say/give/do the funeral rites/words -- because that is what (most of) the rest of his family would be expecting. Apparently so few people go to church now that just two ministers alone in Rockford do most of the non-church-but-still-"religious" funerals. They want to meet with me tomorrow to get a feel for this man they've never met, but I've had to decline. I couldn't do it with the right spirit.
I'll let them have their thing, but I'm not going to contribute to the hypocrisy.
01:32
@skullpatrol No worries. It's already given me enough bad feelings to last a lifetime.
@tchrist Yeah. It's a formality. I went through the mumbo-jumbo with both of my parents for the sake of the relatives. There's a time and a place for militant atheism, but that wasn't it.
Right.
@Robusto I have a lesbian-in-law that I’d like to see put in her place, but only if I can get @Cerb to promise not to let her out.
@tchrist is she militant?
01:54
Not in that way, just in the militant vegan way.
Oh. A militant vegan. Are there any more insufferable people?
I don't know any.
this one is incredibly over the top.
Programming the children into the same thing.
At a recent funeral, when my brother and I and his kids were eating some of the potato salad, she came by and took the boys' plates away because they were not allowed to eat eggs because chickens were their friends.
But they still ate cheese sandwiches with mayo.
And cake.
So a dumb hypocrite.
They only broke down and let the eat dairy because the doctor ordered it when she was pregnant.
Till then it was militant vegan.
Still mostly is.
But she has cheated on my brother on multiple occasions, with women.
I don't know if it's like it doesn't count then.
I can promise that he thought it counted.
As far as I'm concerned, blow-up dolls are the borderline of what counts. But people aren't.
 
1 hour later…
03:28
Just a minor announcement, for those who care: I am now registered for my first year of a Bachelor of Science Honours in Chemistry!
7
03:40
I found this fun expression
"X among other big fishes in the Y pond"
Do you know any other expressions like it?
03:57
Guys, when you are listening to radio, which one matters the most for you?
1. Quality
2. Visibility
Gosh, how come all these P2P related documents always contain so many grammar and spelling mistakes? Do you think they are all written by a same group of authors or a guy?
Going into P2P field is like you want to be a mouse in Cat and Mouse game with ISPs
So true
04:13
@EnglishMaster Visibility in what sense?
I actually got the idea from the document I linked above but it makes more sense by saying "Availability"
@EnglishMaster The way I read it, the document is alluding to the ubiquity of radio. It's not talking about how the end-user feels at all: it's not about the end-user's experience of radio being visible, whatever that might mean.
The publisher can easily promote music through the medium of radio because everybody has it. So yes, availability, if you mean that virtually everyone's ears were available to publishers through radio.
04:42
lol
"That feeling crystallized last year when a wealthy Chinese man driving a Ferrari at high speed killed three people (including himself) in a nighttime accident." Somehow funny to me
05:02
@tchrist can you imagine how many chickens there would be if no one ate eggs? Most hens lay an egg every day.
 
2 hours later…
06:39
@tchrist I don't think you need to look at it as hypocrisy, I'm not religious at all but all church funerals I have attended have been nice. The priests have always done a good job, they are professional speakers after all.
I tried to find a better word than nice ^, did not like what google translate suggested when translating 'värdig'
There has not been much bible talk either, just a good speech.
07:21
posted on October 20, 2013 by sgdi

There once was a man from Culloden Whose death came about very sudden It was grisly too Not something to view His arm had been used as a bludgeon

07:39
@tchrist As long as it's a crampy, reproachful place.
How about if you send the minister a note asking him not to make too many direct references to religious subjects, because your father was not religious?
I've been to a wedding with a minister once or twice, I think, and it greatly depends on the man, right?
If he can control himself and only quote Bible passages that are generally virtuous rather that propagating specific elements of Christian doctrine that the irreligious will disagree with it.
@Robusto How dare you accuse me of such a vile crime against decency!
07:53
@Robusto Okay, my impression is that you can only buy a phone that is meant to be used on Verizon's network, or it won't work, even if it's CDMA.
08:06
@Robusto The safest option is perhaps to get the G2 with a new "month to month" plan from Verizon, for $550. Then cancel after one month and have them transfer the phone to your other plan. I get the impression they will let you use any Verizon phone as long as it isn't registered as stolen, but I would ask their sales department, "can I transfer this phone to my wife's plan later if we decide that she likes it better?". They should say, yes, that is possible.
Btw. it is incredible how expensive plans are compares to even unlocked / month-to-month phones. It five months, many people will have paid more for their plan already than for the phone. I, on the other hand, bought a new upper-midrange phone for € 360, and it is taking me 2 years to spend as much on my plan as I spent on the phone. That would have been 3.5 years for a high-end phone. I do get less data for that, though.
08:51
Do you know what is best for the battery of a laptop:
1) Always run it with charger
2) Charge until full then run on battery until empty
09:32
I think changer always.
Both draining and charging degrade the battery.
But I think draining is worse.
And the device should only be charging the battery when it isn't full: at 100 %, the current should go directly from the net to the motherboard, bypassing the actual lithium cells.
So if you leave it plugged in, it most probably only charges the battery up until it is full, then it will automatically switch to direct net power.
Two other things to consider: it is not good for a battery to be almost empty, and it is not good to be almost full, at least that's what I read about phone batteries. But I'm not sure how bad it is.
Oh, and a higher drain is a lot worse than a light drain, it's not proportional, I think.
09:52
ty sir
10:22
Oh, and high temperatures are not good, even when you don't use the battery.
So it's probably not good to leave it lying in the sun on a summer's day.
10:57
John's poetry becomes ever beautifuler.
6
A: If a letter isn't pronounced but affects pronunciation of other letters, is it still 'silent'?

John LawlerFirst, there's no international standard for letter silence, nor even a good definition. It's not a technical term, but something that adults tell children to keep them from asking "Why?", because the adults don't know the answer. Second, that doesn't matter, since all letters are silent, anyway...

And I'm not even being snarky.
It is better than all the haikus I have ever read, combined.
Wait, then that means all notes in a score are silent too!
Further evidence for this:
God Hates Us All is the eighth studio album by American thrash metal band Slayer. Released on September 11, 2001, the album received positive critical reviews and entered the Billboard 200 at number 28. It was recorded in three months at The Warehouse Studio in Canada, and includes the Grammy Award-nominated "Disciple". The album is the band's last thus far to feature drummer Paul Bostaph. Guitarist Kerry King wrote the majority of the lyrics, taking a different approach from earlier recordings by exploring topics such as religion, murder, revenge and self-control. Recording Slayer ...
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Every day? I thought hens got laid at night, not by day. What else are hen nights for but to further their laying pursuits?
@Cerberus Wait, so I can't just buy the phone outright at full price from Verizon and simply keep my current unlimited data plan?
> If you’d like to keep unlimited data going forward on Verizon, all you need to do is continue to buy phones at full retail. This means paying $500-$650 for top tier 4G LTE Android phones, so that you don’t have to sign a contract.
> You see, as you sign contracts, that’s when Verizon has the power to take away your current unlimited data plan and force you into something you aren’t going to be satisfied with. If you buy at full retail, all you need to do is then slap your current SIM card into the new phone and continue to enjoy your current monthly plan. Since there is no upfront discount or contract signing, you get an expensive new phone on the same data plan you already had.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 They aren't the only ones:
Seems like eggs get laid a lot.
11:22
In mediocre /ˌmidiˈoʊkər/, where is the stress? On the first syllable?
Thank you for your attention.
@Robusto Oh, I didn't see that option on their website. If they sell the phone separately, sure!
As to SIM cards, do you even have one? I thought CDMA didn't have SIMs?
11:44
@tchrist you here?
@JohanLarsson Yes. I'm perl-grinching.
@Gigili It is where it is written. So on the o.
@JohanLarsson I'm sorry. How long has he had it?
Hard to tell when it started but I think he was diagnosed six or seven years ago
Wow.
Yeah, rather different than 14 months from diag to death.
yes
I think most diseases that are in the brain are very different from person to person
I have decided that variables should have a TTL on them, like perishable food packaging.
11:47
@tchrist I didn't know which one was the stress symbol, ' or ˌ
Thanks.
58. I keep seeing a variable declared and used immediately just once, and then 200 lines
    later in the same scope they declare the same variable again. Yes, the compiler warns
    them, but if they don't declare it, it won't.  Private variables whose private scope
    within the same function lasts for hundreds and even thousands of lines are dumb. I
    almost envision some sort of aging policy like on perishable food product packaging,
    so every ten lines you don't use a private variable it gets a little more stale,
I'm working my way to 95 Theses of Grinching.
1KLOC functions are not very nice either
What's that?
Oh.
thousand lines of code
right.
That's a separate grinch.
We hates them forever.
And it is all McCabe-high stuff, too, super nested.
They never return early from a function or continue a loop. They just have all these elaborate booleans.
Terribly complicated.
Then there are the 100s of global variables.
Gag.
44. Forbid the Microsoft global/local naming convention.

    I get so ticked when I see a program that has 100 variables
    all named $g_foo and $g_bar, then a function with 50 variables
    all named things like $l_foo and $l_bar.  Took me forever to
    figure out what they were doing.  They were using that to indicate
    scope, instead of using the normal capitalization conventions of:

        our %Hash_of_Functions;
        my  $hit_count;
11:58
yeah that is minor obfuscation
Truthfully, I’d be pissed at all those variables no matter what they were called.
Returning early is frowned upon by some, I think it is fine.
Return early, return often.
Do it and be done.
I get if (open ...) { 750 lines of code } else { raise exception }
Drives me nuts.
if should be if (!open ... ) {raise exception}
And then no else, no futher indent, no trouble, no bother.
no doubt
Because after 750 lines, I have no idea what the else is doing.
I swear I am not exaggerating.
I cannot show you the code, but these are real numbers.
12:01
I would not read 750 lines either :D
Damned outsourcing/offshoring to people who wouldn't have passed school where I went.
My mother, a compsci teacher, looked at the code and said she'd've flunked them.
If they can't program any better than my mother, what good are they?
I don't mention my mom teaches CS. :)
Then there are constants like MAXPHOTOSASSHOT
Because these are anti-underscore people.
Should be MAX_PHOTOS_AS_SHOT
Or hilarity ensues.
but that is pretty minor imo, 750 lines in one function and indenting depth is major
Yes.
@tchrist What is the other sign for?
how about comments?
12:07
They are insisting on using 2-space indent and justifying it by saying that otherwise it makes their lines wrap at 132 columns.
It never occurs to them that the problem is something else, that they have too much indent no matter the spacing amount.
@Gigili Which other sign?
Some of them even suggested 1-space indent because of the wrapping problem.
They just never think of there being such thing as too much indent.
They aren't very good with comments, of course.
But that is hard to quantify.
@tchrist The one at the beginning " /ˌmidiˈoʊkər/"... What is it for if not word stress?
That's secondary stress.
I don't like comments much, think refactoring out methods with good names is cleaner.
Primary is higher.
@JohanLarsson Exactly.
Comments tend to get out of sync with the code
12:11
OK.
Do your management understand that this code is the beginning of the end for your company?
I had a main that had no comments that they complained about. It was simply calling 9 functions without any arguments, each function phrased as a multiword English sentence that said exactly what it was doing.
@JohanLarsson Not yet.
It's a very very very big company that will take a long time to die.
@tchrist management rarely do, they see everything on their projector screens. Most of the time with a significant lag.
And since these so-called programmers can be had for as many as 6 of them per 1 of us, there can be no arguing with management about it.
Because money always makes right, always justifies their own destruction.
The things I complain about aren't just in one language. They do the same horrible things in whatever they touch, whether it is in C or C++ or Perl or even in shell, God help us.
You cannot take a poor programmer and turn them into an excellent one through education. You either have the mindset or you don't. They don't.
@Gigili See the IPA tables for description of primary vs secondary stress. I agree it is confusing.
@tchrist One thing you can perhaps do is hire someone with authority who can say that this is a very bad idea in the long run.
12:19
Hiring is a problem.
Some kind of risk analysis or whatever the corporate speak term for it might be
We don't have hire/fire on the offshore team.
@tchrist I meant temporary as a consultant, maybe some academic guy with a reputation
I was the first "expert" they brought on to the project to assess its overall viability, risks, survivability, fixability.
Well, that's me.
12:20
And they don't like my answers.
of course not but that is good
or do you think they might fire you since it is the US?
Management two levels above me has been made aware of it.
Oh, they might.
In fact, they even checked the revision control logs to see who was responsible for writing this awful coee.
code
And the answer was that there was no one person.
It's still (ex-)programmers several levels above me, so they know bad code when they see it.
which they did, and did.
But the question is how to recover, how to survive, how not to repeat the mistakes.
What positive path can be forged into the future?
Making it obvious that it turned out more expensive sounds like a way not to repeat the mistake.
A previous very large company I did long-term consulting for finally made the decision to roll back a lot of their critical core back to domestic (well, North American or Western European) programmers. It was costing them too much in quality.
It all seemed so attractive at first. But you get what you pay for, and if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
It doesn't help that all our systems are Unix based, and the offshore people were trained to be Microsoft junkies. This makes them unfamiliar with how things get done, and even with how they should get done.
So they make super-basic Unix mistakes.
That we all have to make.
But most of us made them in school.
They didn't have schools that taught on Unix, so they never made them there.
@Cerberus Pretty sure I have one. The phone won't operate without it. It looks like a micro-flash chip.
12:31
Hint: When you have a function of 14 positional arguments, the fix for it is not to add 3 more positional arguments.
but that was the proposal
which I vetoed
so i have a bad rep for casting negative vibes on people's design proposals
that isn't design.
Somehow the way people in India and China and the Philippines or wherever get taught programming is nothing at all the way we in the West are taught programming. And there way does not work.
But it is beyond my pay grade, my purview, and my patience to say just what they're being taught wrong and how to fix it.
All the domestics mutter on their breaths "just fire them all, it's hopeless" but that will never happen. The $$$ argument is too persuasive. Pennywise and pound foolish.
@JohanLarsson I was raised to write functions that were about a screen-height in length (not counting comments). If you go longer than that you probably need to be calling other functions. Not always, though. Sometimes it's simpler to go a little long to avoid having to send all those context variables to other functions.
Yeah, I try to keep them around ten lines or so but of course there are exceptions.
@Robusto Yes, precisely correct. But they weren't. And my mind cannot encompass these MegaLongAss functions.
@tchrist It's not even cheaper in most cases to offshore software development. Especially if you're not just doing boilerplate code. It's a false economy. Plus the middlemen take up most of the savings anyway.
I'm not a programmer either
12:40
Most of my libraries are all little functions.
Because I can fit my brain around them.
I can't fit my brain around a 3,000 function full of duplicate code, duplicate constants all over, copied coe, and super deeply indented in statements. And no premature returns.
Yeah. Back in the day of slow processor speeds and tight memory it was faster to write everything inline, but these days those considerations just don't apply. Plus compilers do a much better job of optimization.
1. A function should be like a penis, short.
Grinched one for you
That one nearly gave me a nervous break down. I went up the management chain several levels and they agreed with me. But there was no single person whom they could fire, after careful examination of check-in logs.
@JohanLarsson The longer they grow, the harder they get?
And you can't fire the whole team. (They claim)
12:42
@Robusto ha, punny but funny
@Robusto Right, that must be a SIM, then. Or are their other chip cards than SIMs? I know nothing about CDMA.
But nobody ever raised a red flag and said that the code they were being asked to modify was terrible code not suited to modification.
@Cerberus Beats me.
tht is the big sin. They never said there was anything wrong with it.
@Robusto But I'm sure it will work as long as the phone was manufactured for Verizon.
@tchrist So what is the essential difference between Western and Asia programming, you would say? Is it mainly "longer functions"?
@tchrist Be glad you will never have to change my code!
12:44
@tchrist In my new job I find that my predecessor has C&P'ed global functions directly from SE to do simple tasks. The problem was, the example code has certain evil problems.
Note the edit trail. He fixed it after I commented, without acknowledgment.
Perhaps he forgot.
Or was embarrassed.
What's to be embarrassed about? We all make mistakes when throwing code samples into SO answers.
Should I go to work or chat?
His name is Kevin Bowersox.
Chat!
Chat is very important, right?
chat pays your bills
chat keeps the doctor away
12:49
@Robusto I have had exactly that same thing happen to me.
Yay!
And recently.
@tchrist put the thing you are writing on Github? I can help you with punctuation :D
The thing is, admitting when you've made a mistake boosts your credibility and prestige. Why don't people understand that?
Like when salespeople says things like this is not a good fit, this will not work etc.
12:53
The funny part is, I dumped his function anyway and replaced it with a three-line function that was less complicated and faster.
@Cerberus Le chat est un meilleur ami qu'un médecin.
le chien est le meilleur ami
@tchrist My doctor doesn't knock crystal figurines off shelves. At least not in my house.
@JohanLarsson I’ve been mailing it in installments to the "perl critic" mailing list. perlcritic is a static lexical analyser that grinches about stupidities like these. Since it is static, one can do only so much.
@Robusto That’s what you get for getting a Savannah Cat.
Or maybe I just have the wrong kind of doctor. Perhaps other kinds do knock things off shelves.
12:56
I figured out how to get a cat that is less apt to be eaten by mountain lions, but for some reason the City of Boulder does not let one keep Puma concolor within the city limits.
What does knocking things off shelves mean?
And no, concolor does not mean "colored pussy" in French.
See if they'll allow panthera leo. Argue that people are allowed to play Pantera music in Boulder, and that is a worse violation.
Pantera are pretty good imo, don't listen to them often but like the energy and their productions.
leo ⋙ puma
leo ⫸ puma
So many grrrrrrrrrrrrreats to choose from.
Thus spake Tony.
-: ⦔ ⦕ * # > ≯ ﹥ > ≥ ≱ ≧ ≩ ≫ ≳ ≵ ≶ ≸ ≷ ≹ ⋗ ⋙ ⋚ ⋛ ⋝ ⋧ ⍄ ⍩ ⥸ ⧁ ⩺ ⩼ ⩾ ⪀ ⪂ ⪄ ⪆ ⪈ ⪊ ⪋ ⪌ ⪎ ⪏ ⪐ ⪑ ⪒ ⪓ ⪔ ⪖ ⪘ ⪚ ⪜ ⪞ ⪠ ⪢ ⪤ ⪥ ⪧ ⪩ ⫸ ⫺ ⭃ ⚌ ⚏ ䷍ ䷙ ䷛ ䷡ 𝌲
13:06
@tchrist Bien sur! Les chats comfortent nos âmes.
Top question on AskScience today: "If humans were proportionally shrunk down to the size of an ant, and one person punched another person, would the resulting damage and pain to the receiver be the same as if we normal sized? Alternatively, what if we were blown up to the size of buildings?"
@JohanLarsson Merci!
What happened to you, AskScience? You used to be beautiful, man.
That's silly.
If humans were proportionally shrunk, they would probably die instantly.
Or, rather, it is impossible.
Top answer includes this: "This is such a good question that I really hope we get some experts in here to help out. Remarkably no one discipline is going to be enough to provide a good answer here; we'll need input from physicists and biologists, probably - if a satisfactory answer can be given at all. I'd love to hear what Randall Munroe would make of this."
13:07
How can you shrink an atom?
Wow. They are becoming ELU.
Stupid.
Or worse. At least ELU puts some questions on hold (i.e., closes them).
Is this an SE site?
@tchrist Wow, I really need to scale up the font size a lot to be able to see those signs.
Please make them stop writing stati.
What are stati anyway?
2 != 4
13:09
What's wrong with stati? "Men who are stood"?
Or "of a stood man/thing"?
These are talking about each command's status, taken collectively over many commands.
These think that more than one status are stati.
I'm afraid even three brains are not enough to comprehend a solecism of such enormity.
They must mean something else, it is simply unimaginable.
But it's statuum not statorum.
Yes.
Sigh.
13:12
Can you send them a rotten fish?
And I always read their viri in a manly way.
Of course.
What else could it be?
Rotten fish.
Powers is vires.
Status. Virus. 'Nuff said.
13:12
Status malus, not status virus.
You could have a stood virus.
the only one I ever saw that was somewhat clever involved status = stat(".")
I'm creating a gif animation in gimp. When playing/previewing it it looks good but after exporting the colors are poor.
Since "." is the current working directory, they were statting "us".
Haha..
@JohanLarsson I'm sorry, I haven't worked with GIMP in years.
13:15
@Cerberus Surströmming is a Swedish dish.
@JohanLarsson What do you want for free?
an animation that looks like the preview?
I don't blame the tool
@JohanLarsson Do you have the export options set to exact color match (and 256 colors)? If not, you'll get a poor copy (also, 256 isn't a lot of colors anyway).
checkin'
@Robusto Do you mean 8-bit color where each R, G, and B value is 0..255, or do you mean only 2**8 == 256 total colors rather than 2**24 colors?
13:21
@JohanLarsson Hmm it seems that guy doesn't like it much.
Is it really that horrible?
can't find export options
@Cerberus It smells pretty bad but not that horrible, salty. Even ok to eat on bread with diced onion and a beer.
@tchrist However the GIF spec does it. I don't recall offhand.
@JohanLarsson Especially a beer.
So what is it, fermented fish?
Since it is salty beer or water is a good pick
It looks a bit like what they put in rolmops, but that's very acidic.
13:22
Why do people keep getting the wrong answer when they write −2**2?
They keep thinking it will be positive, and of course, that’s silly.
@Cerberus think so, not really sure what fermentation is. You were right of course
It is like rotting, so decomposition by bacteria or fungi, but used to create certain foods.
@JohanLarsson Eau de femme. . . .
Fish sauce is an amber-colored liquid extracted from the fermentation of fish with sea salt. It is used as a condiment in various cuisines. Fish sauce is a staple ingredient in numerous cultures in Southeast Asia and the coastal regions of East Asia, and featured heavily in Cambodian, Philippine, Thai, and Vietnamese cuisine. In addition to being added to dishes during the cooking process, fish sauce is also used as a base for a dipping condiment that is prepared in many different ways by cooks in each country mentioned for fish, shrimp, pork, and chicken. In parts of southern China, ...
Fermentation is used to create beer, soy sauce, cheese, and many other kinds of food.
Fermented foods by type

Bean-based
Cheonggukjang, doenjang, miso, natto, soy sauce, stinky tofu, tempeh, soybean paste, Beijing mung bean milk, kinama, iru

Grain-based
Amazake, beer, bread, choujiu, gamju, injera, kvass, makgeolli, murri, ogi, sake, sikhye, sourdough, sowans, rice wine, malt whisky, grain whisky, idli, dosa, vodka

Vegetable based
Kimchi, mixed pickle, sauerkraut, Indian pickle, gundruk

Fruit based
Wine, vinegar, cider, perry, brandy, atchara, nata de coco, burong mangga, asinan, pickling, vişinată
> The variety from Vietnam is generally called nước mắm (well known by brand names including nước mắm Phú Quốc (Phu Quoc) and nước mắm Phan Thiết (Phan Thiet)).
Foo Cock?
> Similar condiments from Thailand and Burma are called nam pla (น้ำปลา) and ngan bya yay (ငံပြာရည်) respectively. In Lao/Isan it is called nam pa, but a chunkier, more aromatic version known as padaek is also used. In Cambodia, it is known as teuk trei (ទឹកត្រី), of which there are a variety of sauces using fish sauce as a base.
“Oh garçon, do you have any nambla sauce on hand?”
13:29
"More aromatic" sounds dangerous when it's Asian...
@tchrist You mean -2^2?
Could be anything in between durian and 100-year eggs.
Ah, the formatting didn't do what I expected. -2 squared?
-2².
DB<1> print -2^2
4294967292
DB<2> print -2**2
-4
13:30
So that's -4.
@Cerberus Right.
-2*-2 = 4
Because exponentiation is higher in precedence than unary negation.
Math.pow(-2,2) returns 4.
Yes, but that implies brackets...
@Robusto Here you don't need brackets to get the same effect, because you write the minus twice.
13:32
-(2<sup>2</sup>)
I use Autohotkey.
Fuck. This markdown sucks.
Yeah.
Why don't they have a button somewhere with the markup explained?
Exponentiation is higher in precedence than unary negation.
Snobs.
13:33
The mathchat has LaTex rendering
macbook# perl -MO=Deparse,-p -e 'print $a**$b'
print(($a ** $b));
-e syntax OK
macbook# perl -MO=Deparse,-p -e 'print -$a**$b'
print((-($a ** $b)));
-e syntax OK
macbook# perl -MO=Deparse,-p -e 'print $a*$b-$c**$d'
print((($a * $b) - ($c ** $d)));
-e syntax OK
macbook#
Notice the middle one.
@tchrist Yes. But that isn't what Rob is doing, apparently.
-($a ** $b)
Blame FORTRAN.
This is entirely its fault.
They wanted to be able to transcribe math equations without rearrangement.
Well, they fucked up.
This set the precedence for the next like 80 million years. And we all forever suffer.
13:36
I don't love the use of ^, don't even remember if it is xor
macbook# perl -le 'print 5 ** 9'
1953125
macbook# perl -le 'print 5 ^ 9'
12
macbook# perl -le 'print 5 | 9'
13
macbook# perl -le 'print 5 & 9'
1
macbook# perl -le 'print 5 &~ 9'
4
@JohanLarsson You are prescient! See my snip below you.
Like my NAND? :)
But yes, ^ is xor.
macbook# perl -MMath::Complex -le 'print exp(1)'
2.71828182845905
macbook# perl -MMath::Complex -le 'print exp(1)*pi'
8.53973422267357
macbook# perl -MMath::Complex -le 'print exp(1)*pi**i'
1.12344444904435+2.47526335343173i
macbook# perl -MMath::Complex -le 'print exp(1)**(pi*i)'
-1+1.22464679914735e-16i
Damned close to -1 but not close enough. Bah.
Oct 16 at 22:52, by tchrist
> God made the integers; all else is the work of man. —Leopold Kronecker
@tchrist I think the problem is that the - operator is necessarily overloaded. The FORTRAN system probably always interprets it as a subtraction operation in some sense.
@Robusto That is correct. There are no "negative constants" as a consequence.
At least, not as a literal.
Funny how we can have unary plus and unary minus, so -$a or +$b, but as soon as you try for unary multiplication or unary division, it’s time for something completely different.
What’s an exotically named serving dish?
Related: What is the hypernym/category for restaurant dishes that includes: plates, platters, saucers, bowls, trays, porringers, salvers, mugs, pitchers, casseroles, tankards, tureens, carafes, urns and the like? — tchrist 5 mins ago
13:54
China?
There's that little egg-shaped thingy they serve a boiled egg in.
I'm looking for more examples of actual thingies, not the hypernym like the OP.
A cauldron for stew?
Crockery?
Yeah.
What's the name for that thingy that they serve gravy and other heavy sauces in on the table?
Gravy boat?
Tureen?
Yeah, tureen sounds better.
If you look at the serving sets used by the super-rich during the 16-19th centuries (and perhaps even today) you find all kinds of odd pieces.
13:58
Tureen => neuter => retune
Seems girly to me.
Seems girly to me => mom eyes gristle
I can't help it.
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