English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:01

@RegDwight — Why you taking me name in vain?

@Cerberus: You in here, or did you fall asleep?

Cerberus

Hai!

I had to restart my browser, because it refused to load the entire Odyssey on one page.

That is, when I tried pasting it in Word, the latter messed things up.

Robusto

00:17

@Cerberus — Pfft! Word!

Hideous bloatware that does no one any good.

Microsoft Word is where good writing goes to die.

Cerberus

@Rob: Hmm... well, usually it works well enough?

Though it isn't doing me any good at the moment...

Robusto

I don't use Word for writing. I use a text editor or Scrivener.

literatureandlatte.com

Cerberus

00:34

Hmm why are those better? I don't know Scrivener, but a text editor can't easily make footnotes and such?

I am now pasting the same in Open Office, and it appears to be going much better!

Robusto

Well, there you go. Free is good.

Cerberus

Hey I have a request.

Could you look at this website for me:

polyglotproject.com/books/Greek/the_odyssey

And compare it to this screenshot:

Robusto

The big problem I have with Microsoft products is how they encumber you with help. You have to wade through menu after menu to figure out how to do what you want to do, and to no avail, but they will try to tell you that you can't use "or" in some perfectly valid context in your writing.

Cerberus

The first Greek letter, is its shape exactly the same as in my screenshot?

Probably not?

Robusto

That's what I see.

Cerberus

00:39

@Robusto I agree that Microsoft Help is notoriously annoying and inefficient.

@Robusto Ah, thanks! It is as I feared: somehow my Windows messes up unicode characters all through my computer, in everything I do.

Robusto

Really? They look the same to me.

Oh wait, they don't.

The alphas are different.

You probably don't have a suitable font installed.

Cerberus

Could you do me another favour and screenshot this one?

@Robusto I thought that it might be a font, but I've tried installing countless fonts, and yet I keep having weird unicode problems with many other characters too.

Robusto

Which version of Windows are you using?

Cerberus

@Robusto Thanks a bunch!

XP

Robusto

haha, I almost said which version of Windows XP are you using. ^_^

Cerberus

00:45

Hah, you assumed I'd not be using 7?

It is probably this version of XP that is somehow screwed. In a virtual box with the same version, I have the same problem; on my laptop, which has another version of XP, no problem at all.

But now at least I know that the problem disappears if I save the document and give it to someone else or use it on another PC.

Robusto

Which would indicate that the encoding of the document is not the problem.

Cerberus

True.

Robusto

Do you have a decent text editor that will let you examine the BOM and so forth?

Cerberus

I feared that perhaps my PC might fuck up documents I save, but luckily it's only the way they are displayed that's fucked up.

I have Notepad++?

Robusto

Heh, I use ActiveState Komodo Edit 6, which is a free product. It tells you all about the encoding, etc.

Plus it lets me write time-saving macros in Javascript.

Cerberus

00:51

Hmm...

So that is a text editor?

I use Autohotkey for macros.

For example, if I type pieqq, it get replaced with Proto-Indo-European immediately.

Have I tried to foist my incredibly efficient make-screenhot-publish-it-on-web-and-copy-link upon you yet?

Robusto

For example, here's a trivial macro I use in KE 6 that saves tons of time for me:

__________________________________________

// --------------------------------------------
//
// Escape quotes for use as Javascript strings
//
// --------------------------------------------
var appObj = ko.views.manager.currentView.scimoz;
if (appObj.selText == '') {
appObj.selectAll();
}
var docText = appObj.selText;

var rex = new RegExp();
rex = /\"/gim;
rep = String.fromCharCode(92,34);
docText = docText.replace(rex,rep);

rex = /\'/gim;
rep = String.fromCharCode(92,39);
docText = docText.replace(rex,rep);

docText = String.fromCharCode(34) + docText + String.fromCharCode(34);

Cerberus

OK, so what does that do? I have no idea what language that is (Javascript perhaps?) so I can't read it...

Robusto

5 mins ago, by Robusto

Plus it lets me write time-saving macros in Javascript.

For example, that macro takes literal HTML markup and converts it to a string I can use as a value in Javascript: <div id="textDiv"></div> becomes "<div id=\"textDiv\"></div>"

Which may seem trivial, but if you have 4000 characters of markup it's really handy. Plus I have a version that will add + at the line breaks.

Cerberus

Okay, so this is supposed to act upon text that you paste into the program? Or auto-replace while you're typing?

Robusto

It takes the text in a document and operates on the selection, if any, or the entire document, if no text is selected.

Here's one for sorting lines in the editor:

var appObj = ko.views.manager.currentView.scimoz;
if (appObj.selText == '') {
appObj.selectAll();
}
var docText = appObj.selText;
komodo.editor.beginUndoAction();
var ary = docText.split('\n');
ary.sort( function(a,b){
var a1 = a.toLowerCase();
var b1 = b.toLowerCase();
return (a1 > b1) ? 1 : (a1 < b1) ? -1 : 0;
});
docText = ary.join('\n');
appObj.replaceSel(docText);
ko.commands.doCommand('cmd_cleanLineEndings');
komodo.editor.endUndoAction();

It is a case-insensitive sort in that case

Cerberus

01:02

Sounds practical.

Robusto

I even have one that shuffles cards. :)

Cerberus

I use the standard find-and-replace of Notepad++ or Word if that's all I need, or would write similar macros in AHK (though to be honest I have never seriously done that because it's much work, for my petty programming skills...).

Robusto

What is AHK?

Kit

AutoHotKey

I assume.

Robusto

Meh.

Kit

01:09

And: Pa-choing! Hey boys!

I am so bored. Looking for entertainment.

And here you two are, talking about javascript.

Robusto

I'm talking about it. Doggy is wagging his tail and wishing I would throw him a bone.

Kit

Oughtn't it be three bones?

Robusto

I like to see them fight over the one.

Kit

wicked smile I couldn't agree more.

You study Japanese, right?

Cerberus

Don't tempt me. I get out of control when I smell bones. I might right apart the entire room!

Robusto

01:14

@Kit — Studied.

Kit

What's your character? I couldn't find it in my Chinese dictionary. (And what are they called? I keep thinking kanzi, but that's because it's hanzi in Chinese.)

Robusto

Kanji

Kit

Kanji, yes. Thank you. I thought I should be able to find it, but it must be unusual.

Robusto

And you can learn all about the character here: http://kanjidict.stc.cx/4C34
Not unusual at all.

Cerberus

I have another favour to ask. I need to replace any number that isn't followed by another number to be replaced with itself + space dash space, like this:

Old: 215&hdj

New: 215 – &hdj

Can I do this with regex?

Robusto

01:18

That's pretty easy using regex.

Kit

What, you want regex now?

Jinx! x2

Cerberus

If you would be so kind! I have never used regex much and forgot most of it.

Robusto

Do you want any sequence of numbers or just 215? And any characters or strictly hdj?

Kit

@Robusto Hmm. I know that word, but didn't remember the character. I wonder why I couldn't find it. Maybe I had the grass radical wrong.

Robusto

var text = ""; // fill that string with your text
var rex = /(\d+)(\&[a-z]+)/gim;
text = text.replace(rex,"$1 - $2");

Easy-peasy.

Cerberus

01:22

Any sequence of numbers, though 0 and 5 would be enough (they all end on either 0 or 5). The characters are all Greek.

Robusto

Anyway, run that in something that does Javascript. Like in the console in Firebug.

Just make sure to fill the empty quotes with your string.

Cerberus

@Robusto Hmm... thanks! But... I need it as a regex thingie in find-and-replace in Notepad++?

Robusto

Well, just take the forward slashes out and set the flags manually.

Cerberus

Eh, what are flags?

Sorry I am a total noob.

Robusto

(\d+)(\&[a-z]+) is what you enter in the search field

Cerberus

01:26

Okay, cool.

Robusto

Then set it to be case-insensitive, multiline, and greedy (if Notepad++ has a flag for that last one).

Then you want to set your replace field to $1 - $2

Your replace field might want slashes instead of dollar signs, though. If so, use \1 - \2

Cerberus

Thanks!

Robusto

Did it work for you?

Cerberus

Hmm so far it doesn't work: it says "cannot find text".

This is what my text looks like:

νῦν δ᾽ ἐπεὶ ἀμφοτέρω πολυήρατον ἱκόμεθ᾽ εὐνήν,
355κτήματα μὲν τά μοι ἔστι, κομιζέμεν ἐν μεγάροισι,
μῆλα δ᾽ ἅ μοι μνηστῆρες ὑπερφίαλοι κατέκειραν,
πολλὰ μὲν αὐτὸς ἐγὼ ληΐσσομαι, ἄλλα δ᾽ Ἀχαιοὶ
δώσουσ᾽, εἰς ὅ κε πάντας ἐνιπλήσωσιν ἐπαύλους.
ἀλλ᾽ ἦ τοι μὲν ἐγὼ πολυδένδρεον ἀγρὸν ἔπειμι,
360ὀψόμενος πατέρ᾽ ἐσθλόν, ὅ μοι πυκινῶς ἀκάχηται:
σοὶ δέ, γύναι, τάδ᾽ ἐπιτέλλω, πινυτῇ περ ἐούσῃ:

I need something between the numbers and the letters.

Perhaps I didn't explain my needs correctly?

Robusto

Well, I don't see anything like 215&hdj in there.

Are you talking about the character codes?

Cerberus

01:31

Then I apologize.

Robusto

Oh, you just want to strip numbers from the beginning of lines?

Cerberus

No, those were just examples of a number and something else stuck to it.

Robusto

Geezis, why dincha say so?

Kit

Bye guys.

Cerberus

I don't want to strip them, but I want spaces and a dash between each number and the following letters.

Robusto

01:32

^/d+?

in your search field

Cerberus

Well I kind of said so, but I wasn't as clear as I could have been.

Robusto

and leave the replace field blank.

Cerberus

Ok will try, thanks.

Robusto

Wait, make that a backslash! @Cerberus

^\d+?

Cerberus

Oh ok.

Still no result.

Robusto

01:34

Also, I don't know which RegExp parser Notepad ++ uses. You might want to leave the question-mark off the end if it doesn't work like that.

Cerberus

Am I doing this right?

It says "found nothing" still.

Robusto

Try this:
**^[0-9]+**

Wait

Stupid bolding

^[0-9]+

Try that

Cerberus

Oh! With the question mark removed, it worked; but it simply removed all the numbers. I'd like them to stay, but I just need a space between each final number and the letter that follows.

Robusto

All right, we're getting somewhere.

Cerberus

Same result: all numbers removed.

It is my goal that it should look like this:

Robusto

01:37

OK, put something different in your replace with field.

I get it, shut up.

Cerberus

νῦν δ᾽ ἐπεὶ ἀμφοτέρω πολυήρατον ἱκόμεθ᾽ εὐνήν,
355 — κτήματα μὲν τά μοι ἔστι, κομιζέμεν ἐν μεγάροισι,
μῆλα δ᾽ ἅ μοι μνηστῆρες ὑπερφίαλοι κατέκειραν,
πολλὰ μὲν αὐτὸς ἐγὼ ληΐσσομαι, ἄλλα δ᾽ Ἀχαιοὶ
δώσουσ᾽, εἰς ὅ κε πάντας ἐνιπλήσωσιν ἐπαύλους.
ἀλλ᾽ ἦ τοι μὲν ἐγὼ πολυδένδρεον ἀγρὸν ἔπειμι,
360 — ὀψόμενος πατέρ᾽ ἐσθλόν, ὅ μοι πυκινῶς ἀκάχηται:
σοὶ δέ, γύναι, τάδ᾽ ἐπιτέλλω, πινυτῇ περ ἐούσῃ:

Heh.

Robusto

^(\d+)

replace with: **\1 — **

Or **$1 — ** if that doesn't work.

Fuuuuuuu .... Just treat the asterisks as bold markers.

Cerberus

Yay it worked!

You are a super user!

Robusto

Totally. And now you have used up my brain so I have to go to bed and watch the hockey game.

TTYL. Good luck.

Cerberus

OK, thanks a bunch!

I you ever need a favour...

z7sg

11:00

For me, "I didn't use to be a hitman" implies "I still am a hitman".

RegDwight

Wow, a hitman unicorn!

z7sg

I have a deadly, um... corn?

Horn?

Yes, tis a horn.

RegDwight

Mar 11 at 17:20, by RegDwight

►

z7sg

Those look quite dangerous!

RegDwight

And that's only the short version.

z7sg

11:06

Hey btw, just cos I am a unicorn now doesn't mean I'm entertained by smiling cartoon animals.

RegDwight

They are even more dangerous when you listen till the very end:

weebls-stuff.com/songs/Narwhals

z7sg

Hmm I think I saw that bit already

Spare Oom

12:09

1

Q: Where did the phrase "shut up" as an expression of disbelief or amazement originate?

I recently heard shut up used according to this definition in Urban dictionary. shut·up (shuht-up) --interjection 1. An expression of disbelief. 2. Amazement; astonishment. I've only heard it used in a few movies (The Princess Diaries and in an episode of Dr. Who for example). Wha...

I don't think this is answered yet. Any ideas folks?

Oops, I must have stepped into the Greek L&U room by accident.

Jez

12:43

@SpareOom presumably somebody literally telling someone to shut their mouth

Kit

2

Q: Precisely how many is "Four times more" ?

I have 10 beans. Jim has four times more. Is this a valid sentence? And, if so, does it mean Jim has 40 or 50 beans?

grammar

This is a dupe.

5

Q: 'X times as many as' vs 'X times more than'

Suppose John has 5 sweets. Is there any difference between the following two sentences? Jack has 3 times as many sweets as John. Jack has 3 times more sweets than John. I prefer the first construction and would know unambiguously that Jack has 15 sweets in this case. However in the second cons...

meaning

Kit

13:18

@Jez You here?

Jez

yep

Kit

You used "autonym" a bunch of times in your answer. I think you mean "antonym."

I didn't want to be so presumptuous as to correct it though.

Jez

oops, so i did

corrected

Kit

@Martha szia!

Martha

yello.

Kit

13:22

They letting you sleep these days?

Martha

No. I got up so late this morning I didn't have time to take a shower. So now I feel all icky and dirty.

(In case you can't tell, I'm grumpy today.)

Kit

@Martha I like icky and dirty. Want to come back to my place?

Did that help you feel better?

Want me to re-post the literal video of Total Eclipse of the Heart?

RegDwight

May 27 at 11:51, by Kit

►

Martha

Can't watch. At work. Boss here.

Kit

@RegDwight Thanks for the nod, Reg. It means a lot to me.

RegDwight

13:30

@Kit I only just noticed that your user profile discloses your affiliation with Knight Industries. You might wish to fix that, like real quick or something.

Kit

@Martha You could help me here: english.stackexchange.com/questions/29915/…

@RegDwight No, it clearly states that I'm not affiliated with Knight Industries.

And I left that joke for you about a month ago.

RegDwight

It says "knightindustriesresearch.com" under "website".

That joke I did notice about a month ago. That link I did not.

Kit

@RegDwight That's so you can look at Knight Industries and see that I'm not affiliated. See? Makes perfect sense, right?

RegDwight

Ah.

My bad.

Robusto

What up, dawgs.

Kit

13:33

@RegDwight Don't feel too bad. I called you a lagomorph yesterday.

RegDwight

21 hours ago, by RegDwight

Kit

Hey, peeps, so aside from the extraneous exclamation points in this answer english.stackexchange.com/questions/29915/…, am I way off base in my comments?

I'm a bit muddled and I hate making an ass of myself.

Robusto

@Kit — Lagomorphs ... hmm, shapes from the capital of Nigeria, perhaps?

Kit

@Robusto THWACK!

@Robusto Lagomorphs = rabbits and hares.

Martha

Thanks, Kit.

Robusto

13:35

Thanks, I needed that. Gotta wake up and do some work today. So far coffee isn't helping.

Kit

Reg is a viscacha.

RegDwight

@Kit Yeah, unicorns are so not asses.

Kit

viscacha = rodentia.

Martha

In medieval tradition, unicorns are mostly goat-like.

Kit

@RegDwight I've got to change this icon. It's making me crazy.

Robusto

13:36

My colleague from Chile says viscacha en escabeche is not unique to Argentine. He says they make all kinds of escabeche in Chile.

Kit

@Martha I like goats.

Robusto

@Kit — Now it can be told: your icon sucks.

RegDwight

@Kit What do you mean: making?

Kit

@Robusto They just pickle everything then?

RegDwight

Pickle in a pickle.

Robusto

13:37

I guess. He grew up on a farm and did a lot of hunting, so lots of escabeche. But he says the pickling is not strong.

Not like the Krauts and their hard cabbage.

RegDwight

5

A: Simple yet interesting English game for class?

In a Pickle. For up to six players, though I don't see any reason why it couldn't be played with more people. Can a giraffe fit in a phone booth? Does a sofa fit in a shopping cart? It all depends on how you size it up in this game of creative thinking and outrageous scenarios. Try to win a...

Kit

@Robusto I thought I told you to be honest with me. How can we have a deep, meaningful relationship if you don't feel that you can tell me that my icon is unattractive?

Robusto

Deep? Meaningful? Did I wander into the wrong online chat?

Kit

@RegDwight Touché. But only because I can enter a é on my keyboard.

RegDwight

Wow, I have touched a unicorn!

Martha

13:39

Re: that sensor question - while I agree that "domain" and "milieu" are not the best suggestions, I think they can be made to fit. I do think that your "bimodal" suggestion is the best.

Kit

I guess I know how I'm going to waste my morning.

RegDwight

Yóú wíll ádd án ápóstróphé tó évérýthíng?

Kit

@Martha It's not the suggestions, it's that he's using them incorrectly. Isn't he? Am I being a total jerk?

@RegDwight Isn't it an accent ague?

RegDwight

Yes, but I type them by using the apostrophe key.

Jez

touchè :-P

Kit

13:40

@Jez And accent grave? Is that right?

Jez

nope

touchê

Kit

@RegDwight I see.

RegDwight

That is circumflex.

Kit

@Jez Circumflex.

RegDwight

Jinx!

Kit

13:41

Jinx!

Damn.

RegDwight

Meta-jinx!

Jez

info about a jinx?

Martha

Yikes, we're awash in sodas all of a sudden.

RegDwight

Hey yo @Jez, if you gonna kick off FLU, you better get your apostrophes straight.

Kit

@Jez "Meta" does not mean info.

Oops. Sorry.

I'll decapitalize.

Jez

13:42

@RegDwight apostrophes?

which apostrophes?

RegDwight

CRUISE CONTROL FOR UNICORNS.

Kit

@RegDwight Nope, just tender spot.

RegDwight

@Jez The apostrophes that type accents.

Kit

But @Jez wouldn't know that.

RegDwight

Unless you type them differently, of course.

Jez

13:43

1. They're accents, not apostrophes.

Kit

@RegDwight That was an accent grave, right?

Martha

@Jez More precisely, they're diacriticals.

Jez

2. I was being facetious.

RegDwight

@Jez No freaking way!

Robusto

An accent grave is a place where you bury accents.

2

Jez

13:44

lol

RegDwight

HARHAR.

Martha

@Robusto Thwack.

Kit

@Robusto Martha? Do you want this one?

Nice.

RegDwight

Nonono. That's so good it ain't thwack-worthy.

Kit

It was a rather lackluster thwack. Martha must really be bumming today.

RegDwight

13:45

It has to hurt to be thwackable.

Graves don't hurt.

Martha

@RegDwight That's so lazy and obvious that it's only worth a lazy, uncapitalized and exclamation-point-free "thwack".

RegDwight

@Martha Then why did you capitalize it, then?

Robusto

Well, if it's so lazy and obvious why didn't you say it?

Martha

@RegDwight I didn't. Capitalized "thwack" looks like this: THWACK. See the difference?

Robusto

The thing is, it has a secondary meaning beyond the pun.

RegDwight

13:47

That's not capitalized, that's uppercased.

Martha

@Robusto Because it's still a pun. I don't intentionally and knowingly inflict puns on people.

RegDwight

6

A: What is the verb that means to capitalize the first letter of a word?

When you speak of capitalizing a word, that normally means to capitalize only the first letter. If you were to say "capitalize all the words that appear in the table headers", I believe this would get your meaning across fine (and as always in specifications, a little example goes a very long wa...

Martha

@RegDwight Pbpbft.

Robusto

But it marks a lower accent than the accent ague ... hence it's buried. Therein lies the real pun. Come on, folks, give it up.

RegDwight

@Martha Sorry, my Hungrian is still rusty.

Care to translate into Bavarian?

Martha

13:48

@Robusto Just Thwack already.

@RegDwight :þ, only with less smiling.

Robusto

To hell with your lazy thwacks. An honorable chat-user would have starred that pun by now. It is one for the ages.

RegDwight

@Martha Why do you tilt your head 90° while wearing a hat? Certainly that's inconvenient!

Martha

Meh. I'm not awake enough for this. Also, I'm grumpy. In case I failed to mention that.

RegDwight

Hey, just look at your nice polka-dot umbrella.

It makes the clouds go away.

Robusto

@Martha — You said you were at work, so we just assumed ...

Kit

13:51

@Robusto She's extra grumpy today. Unwashed and everything.

Martha

I lost my polka-dot umbrella. I have a black-and-white floral umbrella now. It's very pretty, but it's not polka-dots.

@Robusto I'm always at work. Except when I go home to sleep. :/

Robusto

@Martha — Sounds like it's time for a new job.

Kit

Martha

@Kit Oh, I so totally want that umbrella.

Kit

@Martha It's on sale.

But it might be a little small for your needs: tootsiesrainwear.com/site/547047/product/…

RegDwight

13:53

Buy four and stitch'em together.

Kit

This one is cute and might work better: sourpussclothing.com/…

Martha

Maybe for the niece? But no: (1) she'd just eat it, and (2) her mother is allergic to pink.

Jez

umbrellas are inferior technology. they get blown inside-out easily. i like anoraks with hoods.

RegDwight

@Kit Too much black. Too little happy.

Kit

@Martha My son keeps asking for one. I'm worried what he'll do with it.

RegDwight

13:55

Kit

@RegDwight Reminds me of Grammy.

Martha

@Kit Oh, that one's even prettier. But it's not auto open/close like my floral one. Hmm.

@Kit Wait, your son wants a pink polka-dot umbrella?

Kit

@Martha Well, any umbrella really.

Martha

@Kit Ah, ok.

Hey! Who starred that pun?!

Kit

@Martha Not it.

Martha

13:59

Hmph. I want breakfast.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…