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13:00
Just netted some old dv cameras!
@tchrist ok would have been interesting to hear your verdict.
@MattЭллен Sweet.
Really old — one doesn't take sd cards, and the other has an 8MB card in it :D
Wow. Like the one I gave to my son a few years back.
What? I don't understand.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
+
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
implies
"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
13:03
@KitFox I'm going to take them to the hack space, see if anyone wants them, or if anyone has project ideas for them
@JohanLarsson Z=3 occurs in 1 in 5,000 in a normal distribution.
@JohanLarsson Verdict on what?
> dwimmer: DWIM is an acronym for “Do What I Mean”, the principle that something should just do what you want it to do without an undue amount of fuss. A bit of code that does “dwimming” is a “dwimmer”. Dwimming can require a great deal of behind-the-scenes magic, which (if it doesn’t stay properly behind the scenes) is called a dweomer instead.
@MattЭллен Very. Good. Plan.
@tchrist ha ha..what does dweomer stand for? I can't expand it.
> dweomer: An enchantment, illusion, phantasm, or jugglery. Said when Perl’s magical dwimmer effects don’t do what you expect, but rather seem to be the product of arcane dweomercraft, sorcery, or wonder working. [From Old English]
Is that Bilbo's cousin?
13:05
> It is ill dealing with such a foe: he is a wizard both cunning and dwimmer-crafty, having many guises.
> Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion!
> It is not to be wondered at: webs of deceit were ever woven in Dwimordene.
> But Éowyn stood still as a figure carven in stone, her hands clenched at her sides, and she watched them until they passed into the shadows under the black Dwimorberg, the Haunted Mountain, in which was the Gate of the Dead.
 † demerlayk [n.]
 × demorlayk → demerlayk
 × dweomerlayk → demerlayk
demerlayk. Obs. Forms: 3 dweomerlak, -lac, 4 demorlayk, 4-5 demerlayk(e.
Etymology: f. ME. dweomer:-OE. dwimer in ġedwimor, -er, illusion, phantasm, ġedwimere juggler, sorcerer + ME. layk, laik play, a. ONor. leikr (= OE. lác). Cf. *dweomercræft*.
Magic, practice of occult art, jugglery.
C. 1205 Lay. 270 - Þa sende Asscanius..After heom ȝend þat lond, Þe cuþen dweomerlakes song.
C. 1205 Lay. 11326 - Tuhten to dæðe mid drenche oðer mid dweomerlace oðer mid steles bite.
C. 1325 E.E. Allit. P. B. 1578 - Deuinores of demorlaykes þat dremes cowþe rede.
@Mitch I suppose you’ll now be wanting dweomercræft and such related sigaldry, too.
it is a tarp
carp :: koi : tarp :: toy
It’s a kite!
Yay!
13:13
> magic: Technically speaking, any extra semantics attached to a variable such as $!, $0, %ENV, or %SIG, or to any tied variable. Magical things happen when you diddle those variables.
let's go fly a tarp. up to the heighest parp
@MattЭллен Parapet?
@tchrist fart
or noise that comes out of a tuba
:O such power!
I might have witnessed the birth of the intentional typo tarp, it was in a 2+2 thread.
@MattЭллен you have a problem with powerful women? :)
@MattЭллен These are the stuff that @Mahnax’s dreams are made of.
13:16
flexes muscles, kisses guns
(I really did just do that)
@JohanLarsson I like my women like I like my cheese. strong and in a sandwich
 Magic Variables: Any SV may be magical, that is, it has special features that a normal SV does not have.  These features are stored in the SV structure in a linked list of "struct magic"'s, typedef'ed to "MAGIC".

           struct magic {
               MAGIC*      mg_moremagic;
               MGVTBL*     mg_virtual;
               U16         mg_private;
               char        mg_type;
               U8          mg_flags;
               I32         mg_len;
               SV*         mg_obj;
imagines KitFox sandwich of women
Commute.
@MattЭллен Who’s the other guy?
13:17
@tchrist Hovis
Wonder™-full.
Matt has a partner in crime named Hovis.
I'm supposed to present how I do versioning and deployments today.
I'd rather write a blog post for Matt.
@KitFox "at the touch of a button" be sure to use lots of clip art
@MattЭллен Some like 'em like their code, dirty
They’re better lightly greased.
Otherwise it’s too dry.
13:19
I like my women like I like my code: redundant and unnecessary.
@JohanLarsson :D I like them like I like my Haskell; elegant
@KitFox present to us first for practice, then just make screenshots of transcript and you have a report
Oh god no.
@KitFox I'd prefer that too
but sometime you've got to do what you've got to do
@tchrist OK, you're making that up. The OED authorities are coming to take away your NPR listening privileges.
13:21
Shit, shit, shit. Now my boss is pushing for a demo on Monday. I'm nowhere near ready to demo, but now he's invited people...
In fact, I think that everytime you have to do something you have to do it
I don't think I can put lipstick on this pig before Monday.
@KitFox I like my bacon like I like my bacon....yummmm.
@Mitch feels a himmery-dwimmery double-dactyl coming on
@MattЭллен No, not always. That's thinking to rigidly.
@KitFox It's hard because pig's have really thin lips.
I've heard.
13:24
Youse guyses names still need more syllables!! Like Mark Jason Dominus, the butt of many a double-dactyl.
String em together.
@Mitch you're suggesting a universe that allows free will!
Johannes Larssonus
Matthias Hellion
@MattЭллен Suggesting? Demands it!
But you were expecting that.
Et expecto. . . .
13:26
It had to happen
Or maybe not.
the probablility that it would happen was always one, we just didn't know how to calculate it
@Mitch Distressingly wrong-stressed.
@Mitch That’s why hotdogs’ pig lips are supplemented with pork bungs.
mmmm. salted pig lips sound succulent
@KitFox Checklist for unannounced demos: 1. Make sure the colors look good, everything else is afterthought. No one can actually read anything, you just need things to vaguely change on the screen 2. No errors. Something hs to happen. It doesn't matter what. The person giving the demo usually doesn't know what's going on anyway (they probably didn't use it before the demo time anyway.
13:30
Mark Jason Dominus doesn't dactyl for me.
@MattЭллен so many ways to calculate '1'.
@Mitch indeed, and we couldn't pick the right one.
@KitFox "Well, sir, I can create a demo for you, but that work won't actually be part of the product, it'll just be mocking up something that will never be used. So which do you want?"
You funny people. It don't werk like that in my industry.
13:35
how about twerking? Does it twerk like that?
It don twerk liek that.
I am so screwed.
These pages...jeebus, what was I thinking?
it'll be fine. when people want to see bits that don't work, just tell them that that functionality is coming in the fall release cycle.
@MattЭллен There's a rule 34 for words: whatever weird activity that somebody comes up with, there's a word for it that sounds like Old English or German.
hahaha which is why they want to see it because it's supposed to be released in the fall
don't they understand it can't be ready before it's ready?
13:38
it'sfineit'sfineit'sfine
I won't let them ruffle my feathers. They are Chickens Little.
shit August is almost here already...so summer almost over...
"I'll have it ready by autumn"
"That's fine. I'd like to see a demo tomorrow"
*headasplode*
They will freak out and it won't matter anyway because they always hold up everything, even when I'm not behind.
It's just my job on the line, and I don't even want that anyway.
But I don't need all these pages anymore...I should take them out. bites fingernails
Time to update versus time to fix weighs
I have too much on my plate.
Wow. Oh wow. I have not been checking the validation on these pages before submitting the data. I wonder how I managed not to notice that for so long?
put it in a bag and put that in the fridge.
To keep it fresh?
Are you going to write a limerick today?
13:47
Yeah, that way when you're hungry for it later it won't be all dried out
@KitFox yeah, when I get home
You're not home yet? I thought it was Friday.
I didn't get much sleep last night.
was the dog barking?
I had that weird head thing going on and then I guess too much caffeine to defeat it.
Scintillating scotoma and my head was full of bees, so I thought I was getting a migraine.
13:49
a head full of bees is never good
maybe butterflys, but not bees
I wish I could have a head full of butterflies again. Maybe someday.
speaking of migraines, I went to the dentist and he thinks my frequent headaches are caused by jaw alignment and that this can be fixed with ortho.
Oh, you would look sooooo sexy in head gear.
Is it not the belly that gets filled with butterflies?
@JohanLarsson It is.
13:53
@KitFox lol actually InvisAlign
disappointed
InvisAlign will not make you look like a cyborg.
On one hand I'd like to not have the headaches. On the other hand I'll have to go months without snack and possibly coffee.
@KitFox Some would call that a feature.
I already spent my high school years trying to convince people that I was not, actually, a robot. Results were mixed.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 hahaha I read that as "I'll have to go months without snack and possibly coffee."
@KitFox oops "snacking"
can exile be turned into a verb: 'I fear that Travis has exiled'
13:55
yes. exile is a verb
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But. But. How is that possible? I can't be reading that correctly.
@MattЭллен in exile, is it a noun also?
@JohanLarsson "has exiled" needs an object. Who was exiled?
@JohanLarsson but it would be "I fear Travis has been exiled"
@JohanLarsson yes, it is also a noun
@KitFox coffee can damage the invisalign braces and if it gets between the braces and your teeth it can amplify the tooth-damaging/staining properties. You are not supposed to eat or drink non-water while the braces are in your mouth, and you have to wear them 22 hours/day and floss+brush after every meal
13:57
"I will exile my trecherous half brother"
but if Travis has been exiled it suggests someone did it to him? What if he did it himself?
"Travis has exiled himself"
Make it reflexive.
!!/jinx
regrets asking, can't understand answers :D
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 reads, fails to comprehend But. Coffee.
Can you drink it through a straw?
So, I'd have to drink my coffee all at once, then clean my teeth, then put the braces back in
13:59
@JohanLarsson exile as a verb is transitive, i.e. it takes an object.
@KitFox lol. That's like how heroin addicts damage their veins so much that they have to find new veins to shoot up in, like their dicks
in my above sentence take is a transitive verb
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ...so you're going to drink coffee with your dick?
@JohanLarsson When you "exile" you have to "exile" someone. So if I exile You, I am sending you into exile. If you send yourself, you exile yourself.
starting to get it, ty all
14:00
@KitFox No it's an act of desperation. I don't know if I'll be desperate enough to use a straw. Probably I'll switch to mealtime consumption.
@KitFox Also I drink my coffee at temperatures that are dick-prohibitive.
Damn it! Meeting's early this week! I forgot! bbl
@MattЭллен Lechery != treachery.
oh! Well then I'll let him stay
Poor Robusto. It was sleepy time when no entertainment was provided.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Or you could go into exile...
14:06
@Cerberus yes but we were discussing the verb exile not the noun exile
Okay.
@Cerberus Sleepy time? Oh, right, I forgot. Vampires sleep during the daytime.
Even vampire dogs.
Yes.
The night is for hunting.
Blood, knowledge, power.
Blut und Reisen.
lewd porridge hour
14:18
It was a pun
because of coffee beans. I see.
For some reason I think it would be fun to buy blacksmith gear and use it
what, to forge metals?
yeah, just me, a hammer, some pieces of steel and fire.
chances are it would be used as much as Bill Gates gym equipment though.
if I were you I'd try to find someone who already has that stuff and take a few lessons.
it's not exactly easy
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah that is solid advice
@JohanLarsson solid like my muscles, from years of smithing
you have done it?
@MattЭллен the auto hammer can probably turn into a world of pain
I would not want to be hit by one of those
That girl woman is a bit annoying
14:40
heh
@MattЭллен lol I just got to "we are going to make a fireplace poker" and laughed because that's ALWAYS the demonstration item.
:D
gotta keep it simple
Yeah. So, watching that video, I realized, I will never, ever be a blacksmith.
That was pretty much my conclusion.
about myself, obv.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's just one more profession to put in the big pile of jobs I hope I never am forced to do, a long list which includes lumberjack, sewer worker, window washer on skyscrapers, and galley slave, among others.
14:51
"This is much hotter and harder than in video games!" imagines ginger girl saying this to me in my bed
makes note: when looking for galley slaves, advertise for rowing team members
I think, except for the extremely hot working conditions, that I would enjoy smithing. The problem is that I'm pretty sure that I have negative aptitude for it. If I ever tried to smith something, it'd make the world a worse place.
That guy is so tremendously patient.
Felicia seems to have a way of making men tremendously patient
I can't put my finger on how
chances are there could be decent money in hammering steel, think many are ready to pay premium prices for hand-hammered steel thingys.
@MattЭллен not me, I fast-forwarded
14:55
lol
@MattЭллен I can put my finger on it.
"No Naked Photos Please"
Poor girl.
She reminds me of Sabrina the Teenage Witch.
14:59
She was one of the extra slayers in the final episodes of Buffy
Really? Huh.
Also, she's Dr. Horrible's love interest.
I never did see the end of Buffy.
@MattЭллен Oh! That's where I've seen her before.
:D excellent
Lunchtime. bbl
So I tried watching another of her videos and couldn't make it through. Is she always like that?
I guess
You should watch "The Guild"
you might prefer her acting to her vlogging
That's a pretty low bar, honestly.
okay so S01E01 of The Guild was way way less irritating than the other Felicia Day videos.
I really like The Guild, I recommend the whole lot. (6 seasons I think)
While I'm recommending web series: Platoon of power squadron
totally unrelated, but really good story.
15:23
"How about that bald guy?" "Oh, I never pictured him being bald. He's so confident on the mic." "You can't be bald and confident?" "Your skull is out all the time."
How intriguing.
Makes me think of our little group.
The Guild or PoPS?
I suppose we don't have super powers, so it must be The Guild
I didn't dare start on the PoPS.
Hahaha. "Like my helm?"
OK. Stop watching and do stuff. What was I doing?
Thinking I was like the fat blond with the three kids.
Fuuuucccckkk.
Time for some tea.
15:39
Should people always down-vote once before taking off a question that is not related to topic of certain stackexchange site?
There is one automatic down-vote.
oh, screw that down-voting system =( I hate it
-1 for whining
toodle pip
blows kisses
Hey @sim, got a sec?
@KitFox I need to update some slide decks for work, so I may be a little intermittent, but sure
15:49
In the mod room, if you don't mind?
no problem
Porn and pirate sites are extremely monitored and blocked in Korea now, it wasn't like this just about 5 years ago
What did they do to my internet =(
Goodness, wherever will you steal stuff from now?
You can't, you have to pay for them all
I am serious =(
So sad to have to buy stuff legitimately.
You'll have to, like, get a job and prioritize your spending and shit. What a drag.
15:52
Every single porn site I click, I get this page
http://www.koreabang.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/kcsc-warning-censored-1-600x450.jpg
Guess you'll have to jerk off the old-fashioned way.
oh damn, what is it?
Ask your dad.
can you just whisper it to me?
lingerie catalogs.
15:54
Use your imagination.
Redbook.
/whisper
in the old days, people bought stuff in stores. Stores used to send out flattened dead trees with chemically-created visual representations of products. In some cases the products were meant to be worn by humans as clothing, and so they would demonstrate the product's appearance when worn with a visual representation of said product on an actual human.
actually that reminds me of how I used to read OMNI magazine, which was owned by Penthouse, and so I got junk mail for lingerie products and penthouse stuff. That's how I learned of such a thing as "crotchless panties".
And now Mahnax knows about them too.
it'll do the lad some good.
16:00
HAHAHAHAHA ... the consulting company working for my soon-to-be-ex-employer just broke IE's limit of 20K lines in a single CSS file! I didn't even know such a limit existed, but to break it? I can't even imagine a site that would require 20K lines of CSS.
lol just minimize it?
Then you can't work on it live.
They put the CSS in exCeSS.
Maybe they've styled every single elements separately instead of reusing classes over and over, I haven't seen any websites with 20k lines of CSS yet
If it gets above 2K I start to get hinky and begin optimization.
my quick googleing suggests IE's limitations are on the number of CSS selectors and not the number of lines or file size.
16:03
OK, whatever. I'll take your word for it. I'm checked out from here and just noting foolishness in passing.
A sheet may contain up to 4095 rules
A sheet may @import up to 31 sheets
@import nesting supports up to 4 levels deep
@Robusto yeah I agree that that's an indicator of a stylesheet gone wild.
and IE 10:
A sheet may contain up to 65534 rules
A document may use up to 4095 stylesheets
@import nesting is limited to 4095 levels (due to the 4095 stylesheet limit)
The defect says only "...our clientlib has hit IE's somewhat arbitrary limit of CSS rules which can exist inside a single file." Word-of-mouth gave me the 20K number.
But whatever, the fact that you would break whatever max limit there is is a sign of a problem in itself.
yeah clearly.
4095 rules. where a rule is one selector and a block of styles.
I've worked with IE for 15 years and never encountered that limit.
so if you use the comma, that's two "rules"
16:08
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's called a combinator selector.
whatever.
:)
still counts as two, for IE
Well, two or more. Combinator selectors can have three, four, five or more rules.
@Robusto that'd require more commas.
Of course.
Anyway I can imagine a site trying to generate a single sheet that has more than 4095 rules in it. That's a pretty low limit, if you try to combine CSS files from different parts of your site, or multiple UI libs, into one sheet, to minimize RTT
16:11
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 lots of strings
but a single raw source CSS file should probably never get so big.
I get nervous when reading web stuff, everything is so string/ducktyped
I wonder what other browser limits are.
@JohanLarsson what's lots of strings?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, but you should be refactoring way before you hit that limit.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 all that css
16:12
And if your site is that complicated, work out a module pattern to just include the CSS each page needs.
@Robusto a module pattern might work. But it might not. it depends. pushing all the CSS out at once might make things perform faster.
except for IE
@JohanLarsson well, it's the web. it's all strings.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I dunno. Not sure about the internals of the cascade, but it stands to reason that processing would increase geometrically for an arithmetic increase in style rules, doesn't it?
Jquery-UI has ~= 300 lines of css. each line has 1-5 css selectors. So once you include that you are already in danger of running out of selectors for IE. Unless your entire site is nothing but jquery UI themed items.
@Robusto Not really. It depends on what rules you have. Some rules are really fast and other rules are really slow.
.ui-corner-all, .ui-corner-top, .ui-corner-left, .ui-corner-tl {border-top-left-radius: 4px; }
.ui-corner-all, .ui-corner-top, .ui-corner-right, .ui-corner-tr {border-top-right-radius: 4px; }
.ui-corner-all, .ui-corner-bottom, .ui-corner-left, .ui-corner-bl {border-bottom-left-radius: 4px; }
.ui-corner-all, .ui-corner-bottom, .ui-corner-right, .ui-corner-br {border-bottom-right-radius: 4px; }
that's a sample of the jquery-ui css.
That's 9 "rules" right there.
or more.
depending on whether a repeated selector counts as a separate rule or not.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What? I don't think we mean the same thing by a "line". I'm looking at the unminified jquery-ui.css file right now and it has only about 300 lines, including comments.
@Robusto yes but a line can contain multiple rules. and you can only have 4095 rules per file.
16:20
A rule is a single statement, like background-color: #FFF. A selector is a selector.
@Robusto Lucky you!!
@Robusto No, in this case Microsoft is referring to selectors. You can have 4095 selectors.
.foo, .bar {border-width: 0; color: #000; font-size: 1.4em; line-height: 1.5} is a combinator selector with two selectors, and there are four rules that apply to each.
four declarations if you want to get technical.
Declarations is fine. So is properties. But I hate mixing rule and selector.
16:24
okay we might both be wrong
from the css spec:
> A rule set (also called "rule") consists of a selector followed by a declaration block.
So..... I'm not sure if IE considers my jquery example as 4 rules or 9 rules or 16 rules.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Don't...I'm really doing my best not to star that!
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 "rule set" != "rule" to my way of thinking. Else why call it a set?
@Robusto dunno.
> A declaration block starts with a left curly brace ({) and ends with the matching right curly brace (}). In between there must be a list of zero or more semicolon-separated (;) declarations.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You have a jQuery example? Where?
@Robusto above. the jquery ui css I posted.
16:27
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ah. I thought you were calling that example jQuery, when in fact it is CSS.
Actually, scratch that 300 lines figure. Expanded, the file is 1177 lines of text, but many of the declaration blocks are themselves expanded, meaning they put each declaration on a separate line.
It's still quite small.
but it's not the number of declarations that matters. it's the number of selectors.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 True. Still, I never knew there was a limit because I don't just throw shit against the wall. Anyway, Mahlzeit.
@Robusto so you can hit the limit by doing this:
#test { background-color: red ;}
#test { background-color: red ;}
#test { background-color: red ;}
/* snip 4092 more copies */
#test { background-color: green ;}
That last rule(set) doesn't get applied
16:43
@KitFox a sales letter. How do you like these cotton balls?
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Hello.
Are those clouds unusual where you live?
OK just checking. Carry on, then.
What are you carrying anyway?
@Robusto And furthermore I've confirmed that #test, #test {background-color: red; } counts as two "rules"
Is it...
...
...food?
mmm food. I like food.
I'm going to go eat some food.
OMG so do I!
Eat food? Interesting idea.
16:46
!!! wow we agree on another thing!
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That didn't make much sense. Use the help command to learn more.
lol Caprica doesn't think it makes sense for me and cerb to agree.
Too late. Caprica says no.
Jinx.
16:47
but I'm actually going to get some food. cya
By the way, I saw an interviewer that really looked like you.
Except he had a lisp.
OK have fun!
Oh boy, I just got another Populist badge.
@Cerberus I want to appeal to your aesthetic judgement.
1. in the dead of the night 2. in the dead of night 3. in dead of night
Does any of those three sound better or worse than any of the others?
@tchrist 2 is what I would write/say.
3 sounds...Asian.
1 could be a less common variant that I don't know, or older.
0
A: Is the expression "the dead of night" or "the dead of the night"?

tchristThe second article of in the dead of the night doesn’t sound so good to my modern ear. I would strongly advise skipping it and leaving just in the dead of night. At most! Because it turns out you don’t even need that first article, either. You can just write in dead of night and be done with i...

So 2 is probably what I read everywhere.
16:58
2 is the most common, yes. 3 is not unheard of at all, especially in older or more poetic literature. 1 sounds NNS to me.
But the earliest OED cite is for 1.

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