English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

19:00

@Cerberus You had to go there, you had to find the things, you had to realize that they were extremely valuable in a different market.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, I am talking about inventions that are quick and easy to come up with, explicitly not inventions that are "the hard part".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus So, inventions that are "obvious".

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I didn't go there for statuettes that I didn't know existed. I was just on an unrelated trip. And the realisation only took me ten minutes.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, inventions that take very little time and money to come up with.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus You keep changing the story. Are you an established trader, or not? If not, then you have a huge risk involved in attempting to break into a foreign market in a business you've never tried. If you are, then you are always looking for goods to trade, even if you're on vacation.

Cerberus

The fact that the statuettes would be valuable in Europe was not something that anyone would have realised; but I am a very savvy businessman. It was far from obvious. But I knew. It just didn't take me much time or effort to do so.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:03

@Cerberus "little time and money" is different than "quick and easy". I already explained that time and money are not necessarily related to how an invention arises. It can arise from a flash of insight or from decades of work.

@Cerberus That is still the hard part. Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it isn't hard in general.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And we are not talking about the latter category at all here.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Okay, so then why shouldn't my trade route be protected?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus because it's not an invention.

Cerberus

Or, rather, why should I take the risk at all if I have no incentive of a monopoly?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You take the risk based on your expected payout. You don't necessarily need a monopoly. You said yourself that building trade relationships, etc etc will take time and allow you to establish a position in the market.

Cerberus

Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:06

It's a contradiction to claim that these statuettes are 1) super-valuable in Europe, so much so that you have to "build railroads" to get them, and 2) they're everywhere in Mongolia, any trading business could go there and import them.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And the exact same thing applies to turning a certain idea about a hairdryer in a full-blown business.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No, it's different with a hair dryer.

Because the state of hair-dryer science and technology is at a certain point, and my invention can raise that point, introduce progress in the technology.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not really. Transportation costs about as much as the statuettes themselves. They're not super-valuable, just valuable enough to make it a profitable trade, as with so many Asian goods that are shipped here.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That was a reply to your line about risk and payout.

RegDwighт

Sorry to tween, but before I forget here's @Rob. I know there are like five thousand Bryan Cranston interviews, and I know you've seen them all, but yesterday I ran into one that really stood out, so I thought I'd share.

►

It will take 39 minutes of your time, but you won't regret it. Kudos to the interviewer for knowing how and when to just shut up. I think he asks like seven questions in total, and the rest is just Cranston talking, about his life and everything.

The camera is wonky, constantly adjusting brightness for no reason, but after a few minutes I stopped noticing. You could just listen to it but I do recommend you watch. This guy has such a presence and such an array of gestures, it's a treat. And on top of that he's so eloquent it boggles the mind. Unlike so many actors who can recite but not speak.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The thing is that moving goods from point A to point B doesn't necessarily accomplish anything except redistributing wealth. But advancing science and technology is seen as an intrinsic benefit.

Robusto

19:10

@RegDwighт I will check it out at home. Thanks.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, but my whole point here is about incentives for a company, not about that aspect.

Robusto

Meanwhile, the Earth seen from Saturn.

RegDwighт

That a shuttle?

Robusto

It's that little dot halfway up and 75% from the left.

RegDwighт

Oh.

I saw a similar photo of a shuttle passing the Sun the other day.

Robusto

19:11

That's actually the Earth and moon together in that dot.

RegDwighт

Actually I also saw a photo of the Earth plus the Moon from, um, I think Mars. Not that far away.

Cerberus

Your claim is that a company has no incentive to improve its hairdryer after making a new discovery if another company can at some point apply the same invention spending the same amount of money that I have to spend to apply the invention.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus So the patent system adds incentive, by reducing the risk that after you've gone and developed a product from an innovative idea, someone else won't be able to just copy it and push you out of the market.

The entire purpose is to promote the creation of innovative ideas.

Cerberus

Yes, it does add incentive.

But my question is, is such an incentive really necessary to make production profitable?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Sure. In some industries.

Robusto

19:13

@RegDwighт This one is from something like 1.5 billion kilometers away.

RegDwighт

How much is that in cubic billion feet?

Robusto

I dunno. My feet haven't been cubed lately.

RegDwighт

Well. What a letdown.

Robusto

Call my secretary and make a disappointment with her.

RegDwighт

I don't need her to make a disappointment.

Also, who are you fooling, your secretary is a Russian bloke.

Cerberus

19:15

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But, if developing the invention itself takes no time and effort, then what action is it exactly that needs stimulation? If it takes me ten minutes anyway, I'll develop it either way, extra incentive or not. This is not like a new medicine where you have to decide whether or not to invest millions to test it on people etc.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus My claim isn't that they have no incentive. My claim is that they have less incentive. And also the claim is stronger in the case of an unbalanced market, where smaller players risk being pushed out by big copycats.

Mahnax

Hello.

RegDwighт

Yes, come on in. Tween them boys some more.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Hi!

Are you back? How was it?

RegDwighт

They can't be typing that fast. They have it all prepared.

Mahnax

19:16

No, still in Finland.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus In the hand-dryer example I gave you, the inventor is not a hand-dryer manufacturer at the outset of the story. Thus he faces huge risk in trying to productize his idea.

Mahnax

But I'm leaving day after tomorrow.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт we've said it all before, but unlike you we paraphrase when we rehash, instead of just quoting

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But he can also sell his idea to a bigger company.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Not necessarily. By simply disclosing the idea he potentially loses the ability to sell it.

Cerberus

19:17

@Mahnax Ahh OK. Are you looking forward to home, or are you sad you have to leave?

Mahnax

@Cerberus Both.

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 see, you're wasting your life.

Mahnax

It'll be nice to be back at work and so on. I'm getting antsy.

RegDwighт

I am only wasting a few tabs.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 He can sell it without disclosing the idea, merely tell them the positive effect his invention will have on the hairdryers up front.

Besides, most of those inventions are done by people already working at larger companies or universities.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:19

@Cerberus what stops the company from copying his idea and claiming it as their own, once they've seen it?

Cerberus

They pay up before seeing it, on the condition that, indeed, his idea improves power efficiency by 10 % as promised.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus What if they see it, claim it doesn't work as intended, refuse to honour the deal, and build it anyway?

Cerberus

Then have it tested by an independent expert.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Sounds complicated. Better not deal with this nobody who doesn't even work in the industry.

Cerberus

But, if he asks a modest price, say, a million from Microsoft, there is little incentive for Microsoft to go that way. They will just pay and use his invention.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:22

Or wait for the competitors to buy his idea, then copy them.

Cerberus

Then you're late in the market. You'll have lost market share.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

In the world of hand-dryers, delay of a few months won't cost much market share.

Cerberus

And you won't know what it is if you don't pay him.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'll know when the competitor starts selling these new units.

Cerberus

But you won't know how it works immediately.

And it will take time to develop and apply the invention yourself.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:24

Sure I will. I have a team of smart hand-dryer engineers. We were talking about an invention that was quick to invent, but easy to copy.

Cerberus

Why not pay up a million to this inventor immediately? It's not much for Microsoft.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Quick to invent, not quick to apply.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Why do you bring Microsoft into this? They don't make hand-dryers. And they often don't bother buying patents. They have enough patents that they can just counter-sue most people whose ideas they copy.

Cerberus

We are talking about a system where that is not possible.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus you're changing things again. Nobody said it wouldn't be quick to apply. I said it would be hard for someone to build a company around this new invention because they'd have to set up manufacturing. The risk was that a competitor could easily copy the idea.

@Cerberus What system?

Cerberus

What technical invention in hairdryers could be quick to apply? You have existing machines, production lines, etc. etc.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Where you can sue people over stupid patents.

No, it works like this: if an invention costs little money or time to come up with, it will be invented anyway, and no extra incentive is needed for it to appear.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:29

@Cerberus Except, it doesn't work like that.

Cerberus

Because any useful invention can be used to make a small amount of money, and you only need a small reward if it took little time and money to create it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Lots of inventions have happened when they did through sheer chance.

Cerberus

Yes, so how could any kind of extra incentive help there?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The incentive is for bringing the invention to market. Instead of keeping it locked in your head.

Cerberus

But why keep it locked in your head?

Even if you can talk about your invention during a job interview with Microsoft or the hairdryer guys, it will provide you with some small advantage.

They will likely hire you if it is really so brilliant.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:34

Yeah, but do you want to just get a job there? you probably already have a job. Might even pay more.

Cerberus

Even the appreciation you get by posting it on a web forum is nice.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Not necessarily. Do they have an opening? Do they accept random solicitations from outsiders with grandiose claims of performance improvement?

Cerberus

There are tons of ways in which you could potentially get some small benefit out of sharing your invention with others.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's just one of many possibilities. You can try ten companies you'd like to work at.

It is proof that you are smart and generally an asset for any company to employ.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Sure. Maybe. But doesn't the value of the invention matter more than how you came up with it? Isn't it more relevant to say that this guy who had a singular flash of insight into hand-dryers, was able to sell millions of units because of it? Rather than "he spent no time on this idea, so he deserves no reward for it"?

What if, instead of a singular flash of insight, the same person spent hours and hours and hours, evenings and weekends, in his garage, trying to build a better hand dryer, and after a decade, finally came to the same conclusion that his althernate-timeline-alter-ego achieved in a moment of serendipity.

Same invention, torturously different invention process. Does the inventor deserve a bigger reward now?

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 When you look at whether a great incentive is really necessary, then I don't think the value matters much, or does it?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, is that really realistic?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:42

@Cerberus define "necessary". Patents aren't strictly necessary, per se. Neither are, eg, roads.

@Cerberus Yes.

KitFox

@Matt's limerick suggests that he is home again, but I haven't seen him. grouses

Cerberus

I agree with your that obviousness could function as part of a way for examiners to decide whether or not a invention must have take a lot of time/money to develop.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus well, in the US and Canada, "obviousness" is one of the key tests as to whether or not a patent is valid.

Cerberus

But obviousness should not be the end, but just a means to decide whether or not the invention needed the potential financial stimulus in the first place.

> When discussing patent related stories, people often claim that without patents, copycat companies would simply copy everything and put the original creators out of business. There are a number of reasons why this isn't true (and plenty of historical evidence that it's not true at all), but for a good example of this at work, just take a look at Google.

> Google is by far the dominant search engine out there, and it's only been growing. It was first to market with a quality search engine, but many studies have pointed out that Yahoo and Microsoft have both caught up (and possibly passed) Google in terms of search quality. And yet, Google keeps growing.

> There are plenty of reasons for this, from Google's "celebrity" (as the article implies) to Google's clean interface to people generally trusting Google more than those other providers (to date, Google has done much less to piss off most people). None of those things have anything to do with the technology alone. There's this view among patent system supporters that the technology is everything, when it's really just a component in terms of what makes a business.

> Copying the technology is one thing, but there are advantages to being first to market, executing well, treating customers right and building a reputation. Just copying someone's technology won't get you very far on most of those other points, and shows that focusing solely on patents as a competitive advantage is unlikely to get you very far.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't see why the length of time it takes to invent something has anything to do with how valuable it is and how easy it is to copy.

Cerberus

19:44

Not saying this applies equally to all patents, but it is still important ^.

With this smoke bomb, I must now take my leave to buy groceries.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Sure. technology isn't everything. But patents aren't everything either. They're just one piece of the whole puzzle.

KitFox

And I'm back home too. I mean, don't get too excited.

I know you haven't seen me in days.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Also patents in software are quite different from patents anywhere else. Many many inventions in software are pretty obvious, yet get patented anyway.

@KitFox yay! I was wondering where you were. There was a fennec fox in my Facebook stream today.

KitFox

Really? It wasn't me.

I was on my way back from Beantown.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

KitFox

19:49

I had a really nice visit with my various family members.

Aww. Cute.

Have I missed any excitement?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

do you find discussions about whether or not the patent system is valid exciting?

RegDwighт

@KitFox Yes I've been excited all this time. Incessantly.

Oh and you missed Kate Upton in wet white t-shirt.

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Really, really not.

@RegDwighт Damn it!

Who is Kate Upton?

RegDwighт

Oh come on, can't fool me.

KitFox

!!/google "Kate Upton"

Caprica Six

19:53

@KitFox kateupton.com ; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Upton ; sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2013_swimsuit/models/kate-upton/…

RegDwighт

One of them women known for their boobs.

KitFox

What a crappy OFFICIAL WEBSITE.

RegDwighт

I thought you'd rather ask who was that guy.

Because the meme is fresh like pancakes.

‘In the Way Guy’ Instantly Becomes Reddit Meme Celebrity

KitFox

Oh, OK. Who is the photoshopped in guy...oh.

RegDwighт

@KitFox yeah no shit. It doesn't even showcase her boobs. Which is her entire purpose in life.

KitFox

19:56

Yeah, and I guess to pretend like she's Marilyn.

She's cute, but blonde.

RegDwighт

Not really, no. Mostly just boobs.

KitFox

Then again, she looks like she might be genuinely blonde, which is relatively rare.

RegDwighт

Not on the British Isles no it is not.

KitFox

@RegDwighт Oh, I remember that one.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I was sleeping :D

KitFox

19:57

I have that issue in the porn box still.

RegDwighт

@KitFox Well. QED.

KitFox

@MattЭллен What!?

I wish I were sleeping. I haven't slept well in the last three nights.

RegDwighт

Matt was disconnected from the Internet by his government, for porn reasons.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Nor in Wisconsin or Minnesota. Lotsa natural all-life blondes. And blonds.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox lots of booze and late nights

@RegDwighт rofl. not yet

RegDwighт

19:58

yesterday, by Cerberus

> From now on in the UK the government has the right to issue automatic blocks on any website found to contain adult content, they've also reserved the right to install web filters remotely to your computer, without your consent.

Matt Эллен

I've not been back long enough

KitFox

Did you have a good time?

Matt Эллен

Yeah. It was great :D

KitFox

Did you see any boobs?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox what's been keeping you up?

tchrist

19:59

@MattЭллен But there will be no pics. Cameron will filter them.

RegDwighт

@tchrist Cameron makes his own porn music videos.

tchrist

Rule 34.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwighт oh god, if that's true I never want to see it. even if he's not in it.

RegDwighт

Though he spells himself Cam'ron.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Oh. Well. Um, some kind of migraine on Saturday night, then trying to sleep on an air mattress for the next two nights, but my own bed tonight, so yippee!

RegDwighт

20:00

►

Matt Эллен

@KitFox There might have been some adult entertainment

KitFox

Nice.

tchrist

Camryn

Camryn Magness (born July 14, 1999), known publicly as Camryn, is an American pop singer and actress from Denver, Colorado. She first gained attention through a series of YouTube videos she posted in 2010, which led to her first United States tour alongside Cody Simpson and Greyson Chance. Most recently, Camryn joined One Direction on their Up All Night Tour and was also asked to rejoin One Direction for 63 sold-out shows on their 2013 Take Me Home Tour in Europe. Background She was born in Denver and is the granddaughter of Celestial Seasonings founder Mo Siegel. Before moving to Los ...

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yay!

RegDwighт

Hard to believe he's from the 2000s, not the 1980s.

I remember hearing Hey Ma and going WTF that guy is behind the times. In all the good ways.

tchrist

20:01

KitFox

Did I miss tchrist singing barbershop?

tchrist

He looks better in the porn, doesn’t he?

RegDwighт

@KitFox he tried. He also failed.

KitFox

Damn.

tchrist

The problem was that it required musical notes from above the Basic Multilingual Plane, and the lame C# code couldn’t handle it.

KitFox

20:03

Mmm, love my husband, who just handed me a cup of coffee.

RegDwighт

It's not the C# code that couldn’t handle it, it was you who couldn't handle the C# code. Not that I'm volunteering.

tchrist

I’ll have you know I’m in a committed relationship.

Johan Larsson

in C# on Stack Overflow Chat, 36 secs ago, by ton.yeung

Matt Эллен

lol

KitFox

Love it.

tchrist

20:04

3 hours ago, by Johan Larsson

are you in love with Perl?

RegDwighт

The other parts of government only glisten. Like Kate Upton.

tchrist

3 hours ago, by tchrist

After 26 years of marriage, I had better be.

KitFox

@RegDwighт Not all that glisters is Kate Upton.

tchrist

@RegDwighт If I’m going to sleep around, trust me, C# holds no glamour for me.

RegDwighт

@tchrist That sounds dangerously like a quote from someone who's never been in marriage for 26 years.

Johan Larsson

20:05

^

tchrist

@JohanLarsson Control freak!

RegDwighт

EINE Is Not Emacs. Neither is this chat.

Johan Larsson

@tchrist you hate ms too much for .net I think, I find C# nice but I don't have much to compare to.

KitFox

@Mr.Shiny, can I brag?

RegDwighт

@JohanLarsson compare it to Turbo Pascal 5.5. Please.

tchrist

20:07

Delphi?

RegDwighт

No, you are Delphi. Sheesh.

tchrist

Terak 8510/a

The Terak 8510/a of 1976 or 1977 was the first graphics desktop personal computer. It was a desktop workstation with an LSI-11 compatible processor, a graphical frame buffer, and a text mode with downloadable fonts. Despite the lack of a MMU, it was capable of running a stripped version of UNIX version 6. It was the first personal machine on which the UCSD p-System was widely used. Various universities in the USA used it in the late 1970s and early 1980s to teach Pascal programming. It provided immediate graphic feedback from simple programs encouraging students to learn. Three entrepr...

I remember those.

Johan Larsson

@RegDwighт would take a couple of years and I would probably have forgotten C# by then so maybe impossible

@tchrist not following, regex joke?

RegDwighт

Well I'd pay admission for someone comparing C# to Turbo Pascal 5.5. Too bad this chat is free.

aedia λ

@KitFox I was super out of commission yesterday with a headache, and lying with one side of your face on an ice pack is not the most comfy sleep, so I totally sympathize and hope you sleep better soon.

tchrist

20:09

@JohanLarsson ^D^C^C^\

KitFox

@aediaλ Tonight, tonight, the magic happens.

RegDwighт

Your circumflexes are so not circum.

tchrist

Nor maam.

RegDwighт

Johan Larsson

@RegDwighт would take a couple of years and I would probably have forgotten C# by then so maybe impossible

tchrist

20:10

No lollipops?

Why would someone wear a shirt banning lollipops?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox You can. But sadly I have to go. Ping me and I'll try to come back and read it later.

RegDwighт

Lollipop lollipop lolololollipop. How's that for barbershop.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How would you define "obvious", and how could it be tested? The problem is that the Americans already have that criterion, I think, but it's just so very vague.

Johan Larsson

Al Bundy was not very PC, kind of strange it got so widespread

Cerberus

How could it be improved?

RegDwighт

20:11

@tchrist ah but that's no someone, that's Al Bundy.

tchrist

►

RegDwighт

Now we're talking.

Or singing, rather.

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 OK, so my eldest read the first five Captain Underpants on our trip this weekend. He read for the entire five hours of driving, and then for about three hours on the way home.

Cerberus

By the way, there is the opening of a new shop going on right now in the house next time mine, and it's so hip I can't even tell what they're selling...

RegDwighт

They're selling hipsters.

Cerberus

20:14

Apparently!

tchrist

Notice the Lead has not only the best lines, he’s also got the best leading-man profile.

Johan Larsson

some kind of dreams probably

RegDwighт

You guys are all interfering with my erecting the Tower of Orthanc. You're not nice.

Cerberus

All I see see is some sunglasses and what appear to be phone étuis made of wood.

RegDwighт

But at least the music is fine.

Cerberus

20:15

Thanks!

RegDwighт

Not you. Tchrist barbershopping.

tchrist

I’m so glad you can see these in Your Country now.

Cerberus

How is it coming along? May we have in-progress pictures?

Matt Эллен

It's probably a bee sanctuary, to help save the bees

Cerberus

Gas GEMA been abolished?

RegDwighт

20:15

@tchrist Oh I don't even need the unblocker for that one video. Imagine that.

KitFox

Save the bees!

Cerberus

@MattЭллен A bee sanctuary without bees. That would be very hip indeed.

KitFox

But not the hornets. Kill all those fuckers.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus no I installed a Chrome plugin.

Cerberus

Ah!

RegDwighт

20:16

That's part of why I'm so excited, @Kit.

Cerberus

Which one? Does it work well?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus so hip you can't see over your pelvis?

RegDwighт

6 hours ago, by RegDwighт

I'm so excited, I just can't hide it.

KitFox

@RegDwighт Because of killing hornets? Or TOWER OF ORTHANC!?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus it works perfectly so far. You can also flattr it.

Johan Larsson

20:16

[x] Disco

KitFox

so envious it hurts

RegDwighт

@Cerberus proxmate.dave.cx

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Heh. Oh, you can look at various pelvises (pelves?) all right. The crowd is part attractive yuppies, part tourists on their way to the station.

@RegDwighт Yay!

tchrist

►

RegDwighт

@KitFox because of the plugin and the Tower. I also had cake today.

KitFox

20:18

Wow.

RegDwighт

Oooh baby, now tchrist's on fire.

KitFox

I'm furiously envious now.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Very interesting. Does it also do the Pirate Bay?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I never visited that bay, so I can't tell.

Cerberus

Okay.

RegDwighт

20:20

Somehow that PB thing went all right past me.

Cerberus

I also wonder how it works and who those guys are exactly. Do they tunnel everything through a proxy, or only those sites that need it?

Ah, it's German, good.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus you get a button in the top right corner, to easily enable it on a per-page basis.

I have it off all the time, just in case. I only switch it on when needed.

Cerberus

Can you enable it automatically for certain domains?

RegDwighт

Now you're getting technical.

No idea.

Give it a try if you're that curious. I'm of no much help.

Cerberus

OK.

The Terms of Use have a lot of info.

RegDwighт

20:23

For all I know they could log all my passwords and send them right to the NSA, but gosh, who doesn't.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт You acknowledge and agree that we may (or may not) use data capture, syndication analysis and other similar tools to track, extract, compile, aggregate and analyse any data or information resulting from your use of the Plug-in, and that we may share or make available this information with our business partners.

> If you don't agree with any of these uses, you may turn this behaviour in the add-ons settings off at any time.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus yeah that I saw and explicitly agreed to, but you can opt out.

Cerberus

Right.

I use Tunnelbear, a VPN. But this is admittedly more convenient for certain websites.

RegDwighт

Yeah it's quite nifty.

Seamless integration with YouTube. Which is the only site I use.

They will literally write "unblocking this video for you" on top of the video and all, really nicely done.

BRB unpacking at least the 1-numbered bags of Orthanc. For crying out loud. I already procrastinated yesterday! No time to lose.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт You must have mistyped.

You accidentally stackexchange.com.

KitFox

20:28

@RegDwighт pants

Matt Эллен

underwears

KitFox

@Matt, I thought I might write a blog post about my first year as a mod.

Matt Эллен

oh! that would be cool. I like it.

KitFox

And now I must go play Lego Batman 2. Did you read about the dream I had with you in it?

RegDwighт

Holy crap, the bags are actually numbered individually for once. All the way to the sixteen.

Matt Эллен

20:29

@KitFox is it in the transcript?

KitFox

Yep. I pinged you, but you were on vacation then.

Matt Эллен

I will search it out :D

RegDwighт

And of course the first two bags are just the stupid Ent. I think I'll skip right to number three.

KitFox

I dunno when. Look for me saying "brain".

tchrist

►

KitFox

20:30

CU later.

Matt Эллен

CU

RegDwighт

Jul 30 '12 at 13:26, by RegDwight АΑA

That's all there was.

@tchrist will they actually start singing?

tchrist

Eventually.

Perhaps that’s too modern for current tastes.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox good dream! We've got to stick it to the man.

tchrist

►

RegDwighт

20:35

I don't recognize the second song.

Or the third one...

Ah, NSYNC.

Or is it?

Well whatever. It's over now.

tchrist

These ones you’ll know:

►

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен I wrote a demo for Oxyplot as a dumb benchmark, do you want me to push it?

tchrist

*‘Dooooooooon’t get your knickers in a twist. . . .’

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson oh! yeah. that would be cool. I'll look at it tomorrow. Thanks :D

tchrist

The cell phone really put the crème on it.

Ok, concert over.

Johan Larsson

20:44

@MattЭллен It is not much code, please flame with fury if you find antipatterns or just general dumbs.

Matt Эллен

right you are!

KitFox

I should probably learn how to use github.

some day. falls asleep in teacup

Johan Larsson

@KitFox I'm available for the next six weeks, vacation, ping and I'll show you the little I know.

RegDwighт

Wait that's no Bach. That's Mozart.

KitFox

I need some thinking help. My brain is fried from traveling.

RegDwighт

20:50

Download some RAM.

KitFox

I can't even figure out how to spelt that.

Johan Larsson

placing shit right next to fan

KitFox

There's a text file, I need to replace numbers with other numbers.

RegDwighт

Do it live.

Johan Larsson

what is the first number and what is the other?

RegDwighт

20:52

Just before there's any misunderstanding, there's no way I'm not refraining from suggesting regexes as long as tchrist is lurking.

KitFox

My liaison sent me an email asking why her attempt to copy-paste the macro from Access into VB didn't work. That was an easy answer, but I can't think what I would use. Maybe I will just wait until tomorrow to think about it.

@JohanLarsson There are two sets. I can probably do it with a dictionary and Replace.

But I feel like putting it into VB to do it is wrong.

Johan Larsson

sample pseudo?

RegDwighт

Okay who the F would downvote Mozart's Turkish March?

KitFox

I guess I am too tired to consult right now.

RegDwighт

3.070.930 views, 12.026 up, 196 down.

Johan Larsson

20:54

@KitFox try pasting it to notepad first and then copy paste again

KitFox

Now you're just messing with me.

Johan Larsson

I've had issues with encoding or something in the past

but didn't work is a big place

KitFox

No, no, it's not that. It's because macros are written in VBA, and invoke methods that don't exist in VB.

Robusto

VBA is the AppleScript of Windows.

Both are horrible.

Horrible.

KitFox

Like I said, the answer to that was easy, but I wanted to point her in the right direction for trying to find the solution herself.

Johan Larsson

20:56

VBA has its place imo, the debugger is pretty nice for plugin code

Robusto

Ick.

Double ick.

Johan Larsson

also VBA is ok for simple small hax

KitFox

But the macros she's trying to copy are stupidly inefficient. Probably necessarily so for what it does.

Johan Larsson

syntax is puke ugly though

KitFox

I'll just think about it tomorrow.

Robusto

20:57

And the documentation is worse than useless.

KitFox

I'm just cringing at the thought that she's modeling her programming on that shit.

Johan Larsson

@KitFox It sounded fun, fun enough to get out of bed

KitFox

Oh?

I can give you a couple of examples, but I don't think I have a test file.

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