English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

00:00

It’ll be 55 tonight.

I’ll toss you 68 on the way down.

We have 30% humidity, so it feels hot.

But there's a 5 mph breeze with gusts of 10, so it’s not so bad.

Good swimming weather.

Which is why Cerb is swimming right now.

When I lived in hotswampland, I could only sleep with a fan blowing on me constantly.

David Wallace

@tchrist I didn't know you were that popular.

tchrist

Groupies groupies everywhere.

> A new western starring Tommy Lee Jones, Hilary Swank, Meryl Streep and others is coming to New Mexico. The Homesman is based on the novel by Glendon Swarthout. It follows the journey of a claim jumper, played by Tommy Lee Jones, and an independent pioneer woman, played by Hilary Swank, who team up to escort three women driven mad by the Nebraska frontier back to Iowa.

Hm.

I guess it won’t be trash if Meryl Streep consented to participate.

I can see how Nebraska would do that. Wonder why they’re filming in Nuevo Mexico though.

Nebraska is one of those states you should bring a magazine along to read when driving through.

Cerberus

00:42

How is this possible?

15 °C difference within a couple of km?

David Wallace

And two places with a 6°C difference in about quarter of that.

Cerberus

Yeah, weird.

tchrist

01:07

As anyone can tell you who has ever been cockle-doodle-done at oh-dark-thirty, the Chicken is a sexually dimorphic beast. In contrast, the Bald Eagle is not. Is Man?

@Cerberus That’s completely normal.

For those who live not in a tepid climate.

Green is 60s.

Yellow is 70s.

Orange is 80s, and red is 90s.

Do you see how close together the green and red are?

Nuff said.

David Wallace

@tchrist Not without any indication of the scale, no.

tchrist

It’s easy to lose 20 degrees in ten miles, especially if two of those are up.

Maybe even less than that.

It’a 3–5 degrees per thousand feet of altitude.

On average. Local conditions can vary.

Cerberus

Freaky.

tchrist

Perfectly normal.

It’s called physics.

Cerberus

And one would expect lower areas to be warmer, not colder.

tchrist

01:15

They are. Usually. Did I misspeak?

Hm.

There are times when it doesn’t work that way, but usually you lose about 5 degrees per kilofoot.

Cerberus

But the city is near the water, so lower.

tchrist

Yes.

Cerberus

And yet it is colder.

tchrist

Oh that.

Yes, that’s the San Francisco Bay microclimate.

It is quite chilly there.

The Pacific is a cold mistress.

So the Bay sucks in cold air.

The difference in temperature between San Francisco at the top of Bay and San Jose at the bottom can easily be 20 degrees.

So going up out of the Bay, it actually gets warmer for a while, because you are getting away from it.

I know this seems weird.

And inland it simply bakes.

Does that make more sense now?

The mountains surrounding the Bay keep the cold air “in”.

Once you get up out of there, you get a more normal relationship of temperature and elevation.

Notice how it gets warmer as you go SSW down to the other end of the Bay, away from the mouth opening into the Pacific.

It’s always cool at the coast, too.

David Wallace

@Cerberus Aren't you glad you asked?

tchrist

01:24

When you live in a state like California or Colorado, during the summer you can choose whether to be in the 50s or in the 90s just by moving around a little bit.

I’m thinking it probably doesn’t work this way in the Low Countries.

Cerberus

@tchrist Quite. Difference are never that great near the coast here. And we, too have all sorts of bays.

@DavidWallace Quite...

tchrist

But you don’t have a desert climate inland, and high mountains guarding the bays.

That’s the difference.

Cerberus

We have dunes and dikes...

tchrist

I know; I’ve been.

Cerberus

But, really, it doesn't get that cold here even if you are on an island.

tchrist

01:26

I guess the Sierra Nevada down by Granada is the only comparable situation I can think of.

Cerberus

There is no cold air to "keep in".

tchrist

At least there is snow up there during summer.

Cerberus

I've seen Granada covered in snow.

tchrist

The dark green areas in the Colorado map are currently in the 50s.

@Cerberus Really?

That seems unusual.

Cerberus

Your using F temperatures with me is like my speaking Dutch to you.

Oh, it is very unusual.

We were lucky.

Snowy Alhambra, quite nice.

tchrist

01:28

@Cerberus I should have thought you would have gotten used to it now. It should be part of every English class.

Cerberus

It is not of any practical or artistic use to us.

tchrist

It’s like 91 outside right now. If I wanted, I could drive a half-hour and be in the 70s, or an hour and be in the 50s.

Cerberus

tchrist

Wow!

Cerberus

Or you can just use C to accommodate me. Because I know y'all know C.

tchrist

01:30

I’m impressed.

Cerberus

Not my picture btw.

tchrist

We don’t use it.

Cerberus

But that's what it looked like.

You use it in science.

tchrist

It isn’t how we think, or what any weather forecast map ever shows.

So it is like speaking a foreign language. Awkward. Not at the tip of your tongue.

Cerberus

tchrist

01:31

And I cannot talk about 50s or 60s or 70s or whatnot, because your degrees are too fat.

Cerberus

Well, I am speaking a foreign language to accommodate you all the freaking time.

tchrist

Court of the Lions.

Cerberus

And posting snowy Alhambra pictures too!

tchrist

@Cerberus Not, not when you use measurements. Then you are still speaking a foreign language to me. It requires screwing up my brain. Not nice.

Listen, I know it seems nuts.

All my European friends always think that.

Until they come here.

For the first time.

And then after a few days, a week at most, they finally understand why we are this way.

And they sympathize again, because we have no choice. It is simply how it is here.

I have seen that light bulb go on many times.

You haven’t been here, so you do not really see how it is, or why.

So it annoys you.

We do not think this way to annoy you, you know.

Cerberus

So everyone must imitate your local customs in every minute detail?

tchrist

01:35

Non sequitur

I’m speaking my native language. I should not be expected to half-speak a foreign one in the middle of doing that.

And so I do not.

Cerberus

Maybe you could try not thinking of your own locality as the centre of the universe...

tchrist

You’re the one who is doing the translating in his head.

Cerberus

I'm not.

tchrist

Good.

So why do you need to do it with numbers if not with words?

Just get used to it, like we have.

They say numbers are the last thing one learns not to translate.

Cerberus

You might have noticed that I do not use your spelling either.

Why should I?

tchrist

01:38

Hello?

I don’t understand you.

“I do no you’re your spelling” does not parse.

Are you perhaps overheated? :)

Cerberus

It has at last cooled down to an acceptable temperature.

tchrist

And when do I ever complain that you spell things wrong?

I still think you need a fan.

And not David’s kind, either.

He won’t say, because he knows the answer.

And he knows I’m right.

Cerberus

I already have many fans. Or "prisoners", as some unkind surfacers might call the dead souls.

tchrist

When do I ever complain that you spell things wrong?

Cerberus

If you do not complain about that, then why would you complain about Celsius?

tchrist

01:43

@Cerberus You were the one complaining.

Cerberus

Besides, I believe you have complained about Commonwealth spelling a lot. But my subconscious chose to forget the exact circumstances.

tchrist

Belief is not fact.

Cerberus

> Not, not when you use measurements. Then you are still speaking a foreign language to me. It requires screwing up my brain. Not nice.

tchrist

And in this case, you are self-deceiving.

I don’t complain about Commonwealth spellings.

Ever.

Try again, this time with sugar on top.

You’re thinking of Rob, you know.

Not me.

I’m sure he would be flattered.

I’m not sure that I am. :)

Cerberus

No, I believe you have. Not that it matters.

tchrist

01:46

The reason I never complain about Commonwealth spellings is that I actually use about a third or so of them myself.

It would be the height of hypocrisy to bitch about my own spellings.

Again, belief is one thing, fact is another.

Cerberus

Do you?

tchrist

Duh.

Apr 19 at 17:27, by tchrist

Neither is not traditionally analysed as a premodifier.

Cerberus

I think I'm not at the point where I might or might not see some light in the sky.

tchrist

Dec 14 '12 at 5:06, by tchrist

Why do you have a clock so labelled?

Cerberus

It seems to be ever so slightly lighter in the east.

But I could be mistaken.

tchrist

01:49

Mar 29 at 13:47, by tchrist

I just know that I cannot get any analogue signals, because there are not any anymore.

Cerberus

Great.

tchrist

Jan 15 at 12:55, by tchrist

The short dotted one signalling comments.

David Wallace

Sep 13 '12 at 2:55, by tchrist

@Cerberus That’s spelled wrong.

tchrist

Mar 25 at 13:04, by tchrist

I’ve just come from reading Paarfi of Roundtree, who is given to such embellishment and turn of phrase, and from working out the intricacies of various ornate fugues from the High Baroque, two unrelated endeavours that are nonetheless linked by their very complexity and so condition the mind to continue in the same line and tone.

David Wallace

Hey, I can see my house from here!

Cerberus

01:51

@DavidWallace Oh, thanks!

From where?

@DavidWallace Wait, that was about Spanish spelling.

tchrist

@DavidWallace That was español, tío.

jinx

David Wallace

@Cerberus No, it was actually a joke. He meant that he thought it was "contracts" that you were taking out, not "contacts".

tchrist

Dec 4 '12 at 2:11, by tchrist

Whence all this attention to glamour?

David Wallace

Or at least, that's what I thought he meant, at the time. Maybe he really WAS correcting your spelling!

tchrist

Dec 20 '12 at 5:33, by tchrist

The dialogue is hackneyed at times.

@Cerb See what I mean now?

But wait!

There’s more!

May 1 at 13:32, by tchrist

@AndrewLeach Then you get to use creative licence.

Oct 26 '12 at 20:06, by tchrist

That's three points off your licence, son.

Feb 28 at 21:56, by tchrist

Trust yourself: you’ve got a native-speaker licence. After proper pickling, everybody sees double.

Feb 8 at 13:44, by tchrist

I want to find and revoke the licence of the evil EFL teacher out there who is tricking his gullible students into calling letters like a, b, c “alphabets” instead of letters.

Nov 4 '12 at 11:19, by tchrist

Oh, she has a coiner’s licence. And I’ve heard superrich before.

@Cerb Say Uncle?

Oh, very well.

Sep 13 '12 at 3:25, by tchrist

Why, when we can have our own little jihadist defence of the holy faith?

Aug 2 '12 at 19:25, by tchrist

Your defence of people’s right to close is why he freaks out on Mahmax, and on you, and on the rest of us.

Aug 3 '12 at 18:54, by tchrist

Blowback here, here, and here, amongst others.

Mar 24 at 19:35, by tchrist

Suicide is a capital offence, and notion.

Cerberus

01:58

Very well.

tchrist

Sep 9 '12 at 18:13, by tchrist

What, you were flagged offensive? On what offence?

@Cerberus Ok. Thank you.

Cerberus

But you do it with almost everything else, then.

tchrist

Heh. :)

You actually made me laugh out loud.

Chuckle, at least.

It was quite audible.

Perhaps even a guffaw.

As you see, I am quite conscious of spelling.

Just because I choose to spell things in ways that make sense to me does not mean I think people who spell things differently than I do are spelling them wrong.

Well, provided the dictionary admits multiple spellings. Lolcat txtmsging duzzint cunt.

Robustness principle

In computing, the robustness principle is a general design guideline for software: :Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others (often reworded as "Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept"). The principle is also known as Postel's law, after Internet pioneer Jon Postel, who wrote in an early specification of the Transmission Control Protocol that: RFC 761: Transmission Control Protocol. Jon Postel (ed ), January 1980. :TCP implementations should follow a general principle of robustness: be conservative in what you do, be liberal in wha...

english.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/31581

Sep 13 '12 at 2:56, by tchrist

There is no acute on the a in catedral.

tchrist

02:22

Jig’s up!

Robusto

Watch out for stobor.

tchrist

4 hours ago, by tchrist

> One man’s theology is another man’s belly laugh. —R.A. Heinlein

Robusto

I knew you'd get that reference. But I'm an empiricist.

tchrist

I’m literate.

Zach

yargggh

trying to think of a word D:

Robusto

02:25

Plenty of literate people haven't read Heinlein.

Zach

anyone got something for "limited to one narrow viewpoint"?

sorry for the random outburst haha

tchrist

@Robusto Yes, the ones who died before he was born.

David Wallace

@Zach one-eyed?

tchrist

Myopic.

Shortsighted.

Zach

@DavidWallace something like that

tchrist

02:25

Intransigent.

Zach

myopic is nice, @tchrist

tchrist

Bullheaded.

Stubborn.

Robusto

@tchrist I don't think Tunnel in the Sky is part of the "essential" Heinlein for most people. Though I do remember it quite fondly.

tchrist

Religious.

@Robusto It was in my JHS set.

Robusto

@Zach You could say someone has "tunnel vision" regarding a particular thing.

tchrist

02:27

Has blinders on.

David Wallace

focussed

Zach

you guys are animals ;)

@Robusto that's nice too

tchrist

meows

Zach

I feel like there was one word in particular, and intransigent might have actually been it

Robusto

You could say they liked to thread-jack a chat.

@Zach No.

Zach

02:28

@Robusto not right?

Robusto

Intransigent is more about reluctance or refusal than it is about one's perspective.

Zach

yeah okay, I see that from the online definition at least

Robusto

But @tchrist's definition would serve, in both the literal and figurative senses. Use religious.

Actually narrow-minded is probably your best bet.

Zach

I believe I thought of the word because of someone's religious attitude

Cerberus

@Robusto I was typing that!

Zach

02:31

originally, I mean

tchrist

Religion is like that.

Cerberus

Bigotry?

Orthodoxy?

Robusto

Other words related to religion also apply: you can say that someone has a parochial viewpoint.

Zach

@Robusto YOU SAINT

get it? religious word and all? ;)

it was parochial

Cerberus

Now that's a religious compliment.

tchrist

02:32

genuflects

Robusto

parochial 3. adj Narrowly restricted in scope or outlook; provincial: parochial attitudes.

tchrist

Insular.

:)

Zach

@Cerberus it was actually just the narrow-mindedness that I was referring to, not prejudice/hatred

Robusto

@Zach I am no saint. Neither am I a sinner, except as defined by those with a narrow-minded religious point of view.

Cerberus

Right. (Not that orthodoxy is hateful in itself...)

Robusto

02:35

@Cerberus If not, it will serve until something hateful comes along.

Zach

@Cerberus bigotry is though isn't it?

tchrist

As opposed to what? Heterodoxy? Cacodoxy? Urodoxy? Paradoxy? :)

Cerberus

@Robusto Oh, it can serve hatred...

tchrist

holds breath

Cerberus

> Bigotry is the state of mind of a "bigot", a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance or animosity toward members of a group.

tchrist

02:37

They shouldn’t be called bigots, lest they be embiggened. Better to call them little-idiots, or just littleots for short.

Robusto

A bigot is always biased but a bias is not always bigotry.

►

Big-endian?

tchrist

Bigot. Biggerot. Biggestot.

Robusto

Big ist tot.

tchrist

Ja.

Robusto

Er stieß die Maus mit dem Finger an, um zu sehen, ob sie noch lebte.

Eine kleine Mausmusik, bitte.

Sudhir

02:46

Hi@Cerberus

tchrist

Heh

Robusto

Und so zum Bett. Ohne Nägel, bitte. Das ist nicht nur möglich, sondern nachgerade geboten.

David Wallace

good night

Sudhir

Good morning.

Robusto

Bis später.

Sudhir

02:49

@DavidWallace: Is it night there?

David Wallace

No, I was talking to Robusto.

Sudhir

Oh

Here its a fresh and a cool morning.

@DavidWallace: It'll be pretty cool at your end?

David Wallace

Yes, quite cool today.

Sudhir

The mountain and climate of NZ are awesome.

David Wallace

Any particular mountain?

Cerberus

02:53

@tchrist Now the sky is very light.

Has been for some time.

Sudhir

Mt Taranaki ?

tchrist

@Cerberus 18/12/6/hike

Sudhir

@Cerberus: It'll be freaking cold at your end?

Cerberus

@Sudhir Alas, no! It's still warm.

David Wallace

First light in Amsterdam was an hour and a half ago.

Sudhir

02:55

What's temp?

David Wallace

At 3:18am to be precise.

Cerberus

It's about 20 degrees here, the air in the city.

@DavidWallace Right. Although that was not visible for me yet.

David Wallace

@Sudhir Yes, Mt Taranaki is pretty cool.

Sudhir

@Cerberus:Its awesome temp to live here in India.

We love this temp.

Cerberus

David Wallace

02:56

@Cerberus When was first light visible for you?

Cerberus

@DavidWallace I wasn't looking, so I don't know. Probably half an hour ago? 20 minutes ago?

tchrist

6, 12, 18, hike.

Cerberus

That photo was 5 minutes ago. It looks brighter in real.

David Wallace

So the sky is darker above you than in the rest of Amsterdam? Is that something to do with being the guardian of Hell?

Cerberus

Notice how the sky is still quite light next to the bright street light.

Sudhir

02:57

@Cerberus:Did you ever see clear Sun?

Cerberus

@DavidWallace Well, there are streetlights here, and houses, so it's harder to spot the light with certainty.

David Wallace

Hmm, yes, good point.

Cerberus

@Sudhir What do you mean?

tchrist

He cannot see the Milky Way.

So it never gets dark where he lives.

Sudhir

I mean you ever felt the hotness of sun.

Cerberus

02:59

It's funny how Tchrist will not even accept a photo as proof.

David Wallace

@Cerberus Not if it's something he knows.

Cerberus

@Sudhir Yes? How can anyone not feel it?

tchrist

Proof of what?

Sudhir

Sun with full illumination

Cerberus

@DavidWallace Ah, I see.

tchrist

02:59

That you have an inappropriate flash?

David Wallace

Like how I pronounce WH, for example.

Cerberus

@tchrist That I see light in the sky that isn't moonlight.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…