English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

00:00

> Oxalá, me passe a dor de cabeça, oxalá
Oxalá, o passo não me esmoreça;
Oxalá, o Carnaval aconteça, oxalá
Oxalá, o povo nunca se esqueça;
Oxalá, eu não ande sem cuidado
Oxalá, eu não passe um mau bocado;
Oxalá, eu não faca tudo a pressa
Oxalá meu Futuro aconteça
Oxalá, que a vida me corra bem, oxalá
Oxalá, que a tua vida também
Oxalá, o Carnaval aconteça, oxalá
Oxalá, o povo nunca se esqueça;
Oxalá, o tempo passe, hora a hora
Oxalá, que ninguém se vá embora
Oxalá, se aproxime o Carnaval
Oxalá, tudo corra, menos mal.

Cerberus

She has a very complete voice.

Dannyu NDos

I'm boiling pork in coke. That was the recipe anyway.

Oh, not to merely boil, but to braise.

tchrist

@Cerberus It's awesome, isn't it!

Cerberus

Quite!

@DannyuNDos I will happily taste it!

Though without caffeine would be better for me.

tchrist

I've heard of a pig in a poke, but never a pig in a coke.

GratefulDisciple

00:15

@DannyuNDos Like this?

Cerberus

> The French idiom acheter (un) chat en poche and the Dutch een kat in de zak kopen and also the German die Katze im Sack kaufen (all: to buy a cat in a bag) refer to an actual scam of this nature, as do many other European equivalents, while the English expression refers to the appearance of the trick.

Gosh, I knew of this expression, but never really looked it up.

@GratefulDisciple OK I'll have two of those.

Dannyu NDos

@GratefulDisciple Yeah, exactly.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus One main ingredient for the seasoning seems to be Korean red pepper paste, a very basic staple for many Korean food. I heard from my Korean friend that if you're a poor student in college, you can just have a meal with rice and that. So if you have tried it and like it (a necessary ingredient also for their more famous Bibimbap), you will like that pork dish.

@DannyuNDos Wow... good dinner then.

Dannyu NDos

It's my lunch today.

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple Is it just puréed red peppers with some filler?

I had Korean food for the first time, a few months ago.

GratefulDisciple

00:25

@Cerberus It's readily made in a tub like this. Unless you're picky you can get by with that from a local Korean grocery store.

Dannyu NDos

They say someone confused that to ketchup.

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple Is it a bit like sambal?

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus I would say they use it like sambal, but not as hot as sambal. So they put more generous amount over the rice. Or should I say, mixed with the rice. While sambal is more a condiment, unless it's part of the dish.

Cerberus

Ok noted.

I think I have eaten that.

GratefulDisciple

I like it myself. I agree with @DannyuNDos, more like spiced ketchup.

@Cerberus Really? What did you have?

Cerberus

00:29

@GratefulDisciple It was in a kind of touristy place, "Korean barbecue".

So I didn't expect real quality from it.

But I still liked the food a lot.

GratefulDisciple

@DannyuNDos Good. Do you pressure cook it in a Cuckoo?

Cerberus

We did all you can eat, ordered as fast as we could because we had only like an hour.

So we had a lot of different things.

Also things like sushi.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Korean BBQ is fun.

Dannyu NDos

@GratefulDisciple No, but in a mere pot.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Do you eat Indonesian food there? I heard Rijstaffel is famous, but I never had it.

Cerberus

00:33

In Holland, you mean? Sure, it is very common.

@GratefulDisciple Yeah, it is probably Dutchified Indonesian.

I don't know how it compared to original Indonesia.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus The closest I had was "Nasi padang", even so it was rather rare, only when I go to a Minang restaurant.

Dannyu NDos

The only Indonesian food I've ever eaten is nasi goreng, IIRC.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus One day when I visit Holland, I'll definitely try it and let you know. But looking at typical dishes, I'm familiar with most of them.

Cerberus

You should!

@DannyuNDos Hmm yeah that is very basic.

@GratefulDisciple Yeah I suspect much is close to original Indonesian.

GratefulDisciple

Wow, the set up looks like a potluck. Yummy.

Cerberus

00:37

@GratefulDisciple Then what would a typical table full of Indonesian food look like to you? Different from this?

jlliagre

@Cerberus Spoiler

GratefulDisciple

@DannyuNDos I would say that's close to Korean Bibimbap, very common and there is a lot of variety to make it. Though not using hotpot like Bibimbap, but stir fry in a wok and served in a regular plate. The add-on also varies, you don't usually eat it alone.

@Cerberus When I was growing up (in Jakarta), my family would have white rice, 1 meat dish (Indonesian), 1 vegetable dish (slightly Chinese themed), and that's it. I had simple upbringing. Much simpler compared to Rijstaffel, which looks like a party set up.

When you go to a restaurant, let's say a group of 5, the group would order 3-4 dishes out of that Rijstaffel list, and each would take a few of each dish to their plate and eat them with white rice.

Cerberus

@jlliagre Umm what? Spoiler.

@GratefulDisciple OK, yeah, but at a party or restaurant with many people?

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Oh, a condiment would be the ubiquitous Krupuk or Emping, similar to potato chips in the USA.

Cerberus

Yes, krupuk and emping are common here.

jlliagre

00:43

@Cerberus Either we live in parallel worlds or just in different days...

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Let's say party of 10, you would have a set up like that. If it's more formal, like a birthday party, you would have a setup like Nasi Tumpeng. I wonder whether you have seen that in Holland.

Cerberus

@jlliagre It was #180! 25 August.

Then whom did you think these people were?

@GratefulDisciple I have not seen it, looks like fun.

@jlliagre Two women and a man. Black and white. Man with military uniform/hat.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Yup. I like it a lot.

jlliagre

@Cerberus Spoiler

Cerberus

@jlliagre Huh....

Are you sure?

jlliagre

00:45

100%

Cerberus

Then it is a strange coincidence how the man looked like the man I thought he was!

And how I got the exact year!

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus I also like Dutch original food, like Saucijzenbroodjes which I have seen to be available among Indonesians in the USA. And I love Risoles too.

Dannyu NDos

Oooh, I know nothing about Dutch cuisine, but maybe I've had one before and never noticed.

Cerberus

Hmm saucijzenbroodjes are so fatty.

I don't know Risoles.

@DannyuNDos Dutch cuisine isn't much!

My favourite Dutch dish is probably andijviestamppot.

With bacon and sausage or meatball.

And cheese.

GratefulDisciple

This looks exactly like what I grew up with. And I like the ragout version as well.

Dannyu NDos

00:52

When I went to the UK, France, Switzerland, and Italy, I didn't notice differences of their cuisines, tbh.

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple Never seen that before nor heard the word.

@DannyuNDos Perhaps because French and Italian cuisine is eaten all over the world.

Mitch

ears perk up

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Haven't tried that yet.

Mitch

What? We're talking about food?

@DannyuNDos really? Even English?

English food is quite well known for being... suboptimal.

Cerberus

Mitch

00:54

By all the rest

Cerberus

Andijviestamppot with sausage. Needs more gravy, though.

Mitch

By suboptimal I mean awful

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus The spelling was "normalized" from the original "rissoles", perhaps.

Cerberus

Andijviestamppot with meatballs.

Dannyu NDos

@Mitch Yeah.

Cerberus

00:55

@GratefulDisciple We do not use that word, so I have no idea what it would be.

Mitch

Ooh here's a question...what kind of pizza do you like better, Roman style or Neapolitan?

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus That looks yummy.

Mitch

Roman is thing and crunchy

Neapolitan is a little thicker and chewier

Cerberus

It is mashed potatoes with cheese, andives, bacon, and meatballs or sausage.

Mitch

@Cerberus mmm

And why is the correct answer Roman?

Cerberus

00:56

And it is lukewarm: the endives must still be fresh and crispy.

Mitch

Are the endives just chopped up?

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus For New Year, our family sometimes make oliebollen and pannenkoek. Surely, these are also common there?

Mitch

Ask Cerb about crepes and waffles you buy from street vendors.

jlliagre

Rissole

A rissole (from Latin russeolus, meaning reddish, via French in which "rissoler" means "to redden") is "a ball or flattened cake of chopped meat, fish, or vegetables mixed with herbs or spices, then coated in breadcrumbs and fried." == Variations == === Europe === ==== France ==== In France, rissoles can be served as a dessert cooked in the Savoy region. They are made of pears in batter and are baked, not fried. In the north of France, rissoles de Coucy are made with meat or fish and can be baked or fried. Different versions exist in Auvergne or in the east of France, with different...

Dannyu NDos

*Sigh* I should've eaten more baked goods in France.

Cerberus

00:59

@GratefulDisciple Yes, those are very common. That is, oliebollen only in December / New Year's Eve. Pannenkoeken are eaten year round.

Mitch

@jlliagre hmm...I'll have to put that on the list of things to try.

@DannyuNDos one can never not say that

Cerberus

@Mitch We barely have street vendors.

Only at markets.

Dannyu NDos

Croissants.

Mitch

@Cerberus so civilized!

Cerberus

Those are mostly fine.

Mitch

01:02

Crepes would be nice.

Sweet or savory

Korean BBQ crepes

Dannyu NDos

I mean, for strange reasons, I don't remember what I ate in France. I really liked Guinness at the time, tho.

Mitch

Wait...are rissoles simply a variety of croquette?

Oh...baked not fried

But...

Cerberus

Kroketten are indeed very Dutch.

Filled with ragoût.

Mitch

I suppose one could fry a rissoles and then its be a croquette.

Cerberus

And bitterballen, which are in fact round little kroketjes.

Mitch

01:05

Are they ... bitter?

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch When I went to the USA, I tried crepe (from IHOP), but it's not the same as Pannenkoeken. Haven't found a place in the US/Canada yet that serves it. Maybe I need to make it myself.

Cerberus

@Mitch Not at all. I have no idea why they are called that. They just taste like ragoût in a crispy coat.

Mitch

IHOP is made fun of here (the US) but they're pancakes and waffles are pretty good.

I would never have thought they offer crepes.

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch Yes, I like their pancakes, waffles, and omelletes.

Mitch

I can't imagine they'd be any good

@Cerberus ok. Put it on the list

@GratefulDisciple yes those are all good there.

I think why people make fun of them is their service? I don't know

Cerberus

01:08

@Mitch Done.

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Not even ~~chocolatines~~ pains au chocolat?

Cerberus

I wil certainly feed you bitterballen if you come here.

Mitch

@Cerberus nice I may run out afterwards and sneak in a waffle or two

Dannyu NDos

@jlliagre No.

Cerberus

@Mitch What kind of waffle?

You are allowed to buy stroopwafels, as long as they have no weird stuff on them.

Mitch

01:09

A Nutella and whipping cream waffle

Cerberus

Then you will wake up, for a short while, in a canal.

Dannyu NDos

I remember that chocolate with 99% cacao tho.

Mitch

@Cerberus oh how picaresque!

Dannyu NDos

Only I liked it; no other people.

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Hmm, you thought you were in France but were certainly mistaken.

Dannyu NDos

01:11

Oh, I was. In Paris, even.

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Did you leave the plane?

Cerberus

Did you rent a room in the local Mac Donald's?

Or the aeroport?

Dannyu NDos

@jlliagre Yes, in London.

Cerberus

Hahaha.

Dannyu NDos

I went through Europe by bus.

GratefulDisciple

01:12

@Mitch I once saw stroopwafels at Costco (packaged like this but with multiple kinds of fillings). Bring back memories.

Mitch

Airport pain au chocolat is still in France so...

Dannyu NDos

London → Paris → Interlaken → Pisa → Rome, IIRC.

Mitch

@DannyuNDos did you go through the Chunnel, or by ferry?

Dannyu NDos

The former.

Mitch

Half the fun is looking out the window.

Cerberus

01:16

@GratefulDisciple Looks like a tourist thing.

A French brand for stroopwafels?

Mitch

And stopping at rest stops and having weird prepackaged snacks

Gas prices are not fun.

GratefulDisciple

@DannyuNDos I really like Korean 고로케 빵 (croquette) too, the curry beef version though. Usually when I visit Paris Baguette.

Mitch

The weird cafeteria food.

@GratefulDisciple Paris Baguette looks like a worldwide chain. This is the first I've heard of it.

But there is at least one in the Boston area

Is there one local to you?

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Looks like they mess up the description, maybe for French Canadians. It's made in Holland, though. Is Daelmans the right brand for it?

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple I think that is a tourist brand.

GratefulDisciple

01:23

@Mitch Yes, it's a bakery chain. Ubiquitous in Seoul. When I lived in Southern California there are quite a few stores since there is a large Korean population there.

Cerberus

I have never in my life bought stroopwafels of a specific brand.

You either buy them from the supermarket house brand, or from a baker or market stall.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus I see. Good to know.

Cerberus

Freshly baked at a market stall is the nicest.

Still warm.

Mitch

@GratefulDisciple do you have 'Tous Les Jours' bakeries of pastries, French or otherwise?

Cerberus

But the cheap-ish house brand at the supermarket is still quite good.

GratefulDisciple

01:26

@Mitch That's also Korean, despite the name. It's their competitor chain. Offering the same type of bakery items and cakes.

Cerberus

ah.nl/producten/product/wi142548/ah-roomboter-stroopwafels

These are perfectly good.

ah.nl/producten/product/wi170059/ah-stroopwafels

These are better.

All supermarket stuff.

Mitch

Yes the pastries seem ... not exactly French

Dannyu NDos

@Cerberus Access denied?

Mitch

Like a hotdog croissant.

Cerberus

Oh, really?

GratefulDisciple

01:27

@DannyuNDos I can access it just fine (from an ISP in Canada).

Cerberus

And remember that oo is pronounced like English oa.

So think strope-wafels.

Dannyu NDos

Dutch orthography feels quite exotic to me.

Mitch

How about 'Ij'? That's always given me a problem.

Dannyu NDos

D Ĳ K S T R A!

Mitch

You probably explained that once before but nothing sticks

Cerberus

01:29

@Mitch Wrong!

IJ is one letter. So it is either IJ or ij.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus I recognize about 50% of the words.

Cerberus

That's a lot.

Mitch

@Cerberus well there you go.

Dannyu NDos

They say Æ and Œ are conjoined twins, while Ĳ is not.

Cerberus

Just because computer software wasn't written for Dutch.

Mitch

01:31

Is it /aj/ or /ij/?

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Thanks to my parents, I guess. For some reason they speak Dutch to each other.

Dannyu NDos

@Cerberus I see a quirk. Even you didn't use the Unicode precombined letters.

Mitch

So the kids won't follow what they're saying about them

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple Cool.

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch Exactly :-) But then it was probably also a leftover habit from their "dating" period when they were in the university. Dutch was my mom's first language, and my dad had to speak Dutch to his in laws.

Cerberus

01:32

@DannyuNDos Do those even exist?

Mitch

My hands smell like onions and garlic.

Dannyu NDos

Yes, as U+0132 and U+0133.

Mitch

Not naturally. I was cutting onions and garlic

Dannyu NDos

Diæresis. Cæsium. Bœf. Sœur.

And our mighty Dĳkstra.

Mitch

Œsophagus

Dannyu NDos

01:34

But the real question is... Do any Dutch names start with Ĳ?

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos IJsselmeer

Cerberus

@DannyuNDos Oh, funny. But those just aren't in the standard keyboard layouts and stuff.

And they aren't even ligatures!

@DannyuNDos Yes!

Mitch

Forvo says /ej/

Cerberus

@jlliagre Ding!

Mitch

Which I did not expect

Dannyu NDos

01:36

@Cerberus Yeah, rather, they are digraphs.

Cerberus

The river IJssel, the lake IJsselmeer.

And also the big water in Amsterdam, the IJ.

And personal names, like IJsbrandt.

@Mitch Similar but not quite it.

Mitch

@Cerberus that's a new one In me

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Before the computer age, was IJ typeset closer to each other?

Mitch

@Cerberus but closer to /ej/ than /aj/ or /ij/?

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple I don't really know about print. In manuscript, it is written as one letter.

@Mitch Yes.

Mitch

01:39

In English Dijkstra is pronounced /dajkstra/

Cerberus

I don't know how it is written in IPA.

@Mitch In Frisia and north of Amsterdam, it may also be pronounced like that.

jlliagre

@Cerberus I remembered that from geography at school. The Zuiderzee became IJselmeer.

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch Reminds me of Edsger Dijkstra.

Mitch

11 mins ago, by Dannyu NDos

D Ĳ K S T R A!

Cerberus

@jlliagre Correct!

And it was the Almere before it became the Zuiderzee.

The all-mere, the big lake.

Mitch

01:42

@Cerberus and before that?

jlliagre

@Cerberus Mere = Meer ?

Mitch

Mare?

Cerberus

@Mitch Land.

Doggerland.

Mitch

Oh.

A lot longer before

Cerberus

@jlliagre Yes: in Dutch, mere is an old variant of meer (lake). In English, a mere is a kind of watery swamp, I believe.

Dannyu NDos

01:45

Intel Westmere.

Cerberus

Doesn't Intel use lake names for its processors?

Skylake and such?

Mitch

@Cerberus I thought 'mere' was just a simple pond.

Cerberus

@Mitch In English?

I don't know!

> mere:
1. Chiefly British Dialect. a lake or pond.
2. Obsolete. any body of sea water.

Dannyu NDos

I am an AMD fan tho. So happy about them outrunning Intel.

Cerberus

So am I.

I have one of the earlier AMD processors in my computer.

Mitch

01:47

Mere (lake)

A mere is a shallow lake, pond, or wetland, particularly in Great Britain and other parts of western Europe. == Derivation of the word == === Etymology === The word mere is recorded in Old English as mere ″sea, lake″, corresponding to Old Saxon meri, Old Low Franconian *meri (Dutch meer ″lake, pool″, Picard mer ″pool, lake″, Northern French toponymic element -mer), Old High German mari / meri (German Meer ″sea″, but also Maar ″circular lake″), Goth. mari-, marei, Old Norse marr ″sea″ (Norwegian mar ″sea″, Shetland Norn mar ″mer, deep water fishing area″, Faroese marrur ″mud, sludge″, S...

So we're both right?

Cerberus

Yes!

Well, I didn't really have an actual opinion.

Mitch

Secretly I was adamant about my version

Cerberus

I wouldn't say a Dutch meer is a pool. It is only a lake.

Even een meertje is large enough to swim in.

Mitch

Blorp

Dannyu NDos

What about flowing water? Ditch < Stream < Brook < River, right?

Mitch

01:56

Creek, rivulet, ria, arroyo, wadi, waterway,

Dannyu NDos

I mean:

[SynthV Natalie] [English Adaptation] 바윗돌 깨뜨려 (Break Down A Boulder)

►

I still doubt whether my English-adapted lyrics are legit.

Cerberus

Does a ditch always stream?

Dannyu NDos

Err... No?

It was the word I found on my dict anyways.

Mitch

A ditch is just the depression.

Meant for water but is not defined by having water in it.

Cerberus

@Mitch That is also what I thought.

jlliagre

02:04

Rigole, ru, ruisseau/torrent, rivière, fleuve

Mitch

'river' is a classic word in ontology studies for being obvious in its definition to us yet particularly difficult to define logically (because so many things that are labeled 'river' have contradictory features).

Cerberus

Hmm what is contradictory about it?

Mitch

@jlliagre Tu rigoles, non?

Cerberus

And why oncology?

jlliagre

@Mitch Jamais !

Mitch

02:06

@Cerberus oops

jlliagre

I just read rigole come from the Dutch regel and before that Latin regula.

Mitch

@Cerberus different things that experientially we would label 'river' might not all share the exact same features.

Cerberus

@Mitch Ohh haha.

Mitch

@jlliagre I just wrote a word that sounded like it might be a French word for 'joking'

Cerberus

I was thinking it was something to do with researching people's brain functions when thinking about rivers with a tumour.

Mitch

02:10

I mean I do that in English too but I have a better percentage there.

@Cerberus I suppose there might be a situation like that, but yeah, no

Cerberus

@Mitch I would say it is a large, long stretch of water continuously moving longitudinally. By extension, anything that resembles it.

Mitch

I think actually the more recently popular way to think about definition problems from how we use them is the controversy over 'fish'

Cerberus

Wittgenstein had game.

Mitch

Ie like when they say 'there is no such thing as a fish'

jlliagre

@Mitch It definitely does.

rigoler

Verb: rigoler

(intransitive, informal) to laugh, especially laugh out loud
Synonym: se marrer
(intransitive, informal) to joke, to kid
Synonyms: blaguer, déconner, plaisanter

Mitch

02:13

Which is a trolling way to express that the term 'fish' applies to a lot of things that can't be put into a logically consistent category.

jellyfish is the obvious one

jlliagre

@Mitch I'm just a rigolo :-)

Mitch

But a salmon is closer in DNA distance to humans than a salmon is to a hagfish

Cerberus

Sounds like Wittgenstein's game.

Mitch

@jlliagre lucky guess!

Dannyu NDos

Mitch

02:16

@Cerberus yes very much the same thing but with a lot more logical specification than Wittgenstein gave

Dannyu NDos

Pokémons join the reality and the entire taxonomy breaks.

Mitch

@jlliagre snort

Is 'plaisante' a bit old fashioned or formal?

Cerberus

@Mitch Don't you think we could come up with a reasonable definition of fish?

Considering that any word can be used metaphorically.

Mitch

Yes but we'd have to stop using it for some things that are currently called 'fish'

Which is not particularly deep, but still poses problems

Cerberus

Why would we have to do that?

Mitch

02:20

@Cerberus right. 'literally' forces you to pick exactly one dictionary entry and nothing else is allowed

jlliagre

@Mitch It might be used whatever the register.

Mitch

But 'rigole' is more informal?

jlliagre

It's not colloquial, though.

@Mitch Right. Not exactly the same meaning, well, overlapping meanings.

Mitch

Informal but not colloquial?

jlliagre

Rigoler is informal for rire.

but can also mean plaisanter.

Rire doesn't mean plaisanter but you can say pour rire to tell it's a joke.

Cerberus

02:29

What does plaisanter mean?

jlliagre

Telling jokes, kidding.

Cerberus

OK, merci.

jlliagre

31

Q: What's the difference between "informal", "colloquial", "slang", and "vulgar"?

It seems many people get confused about the differences (and similarities) between "colloquial" and "slang", so what exactly does each term apply to? But to be even more thorough it seems to me we can also include a couple more terms which are often applied to language and arrange them into a sc...

Cerberus

Oh, look, some freak posted an overlong answer.

jlliagre

Yeah, reading it now.

I will try and convince her

-> slightly informal, colloquial, some might call this slang or vulgar

I'm surprised about it.

@Cerberus I have heard that kind of sentence a lot. What would be the less informal way to say it?

try to?

Cerberus

02:38

@jlliagre Umm I have a mild fever so I'm not sure I understand. Say what?

What type of sentence?

jlliagre

I will try and convince her

Mitch

@jlliagre yes, 'try to' is considered the correct way but most people even not informally say 'try and'

Cerberus

Oh, sorry, I overlooked those messages.

Yes: try to is the non-informal way to say try and.

jlliagre

@Cerberus Okay, thanks.

Mitch

I have a very hard time distinguishing informal and colloquial, and the stated differences don't register with me.

Cerberus

02:40

Try and is not very informal: just a bit.

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch To my understanding "formal" is the kind of language you would expect in contracts, hiring letters, government notification, legal briefings, invitations to weddings or government/business functions, addresses to royalty, etc. with "informal" to be everything else. While I would associate "colloquial" with idioms you only use in conversations rather than written.

"slang" and "vulgar" are associated with smaller units, like words / phrases, not entire writings (formal / informal), or the occasion (conversation / writing).

alphabet

At least to me, "try and" and "try to" seem to have slightly different meanings, with the former implying a relatively high likelihood of success. But maybe that's just me.

GratefulDisciple

So I agree with @Cerberus's answer that the notion if language "registers" have to do with degrees of formality, especially in language such as Korean (ask @DannyuNDos) or Javanese where you would use different grammar / vocabs even, when speaking to people of higher rank.

alphabet

"Formal" is a spectrum, of course: texting < chatting with friends < talking to coworkers < Slack < this chatroom, it seems at times < talking to your boss < emails < everyday work writing < formal presentations < newspaper articles < journal articles, etc.

Cerberus

@alphabet You are not talking about try to do versus try doing?

alphabet

02:49

@Cerberus I mean "try and do" vs "try to do."

Cerberus

OK.

There may be subtle differences in meaning between alternatives.

alphabet

Of course even in English there are grammatical differences between registers ("You gotta" vs "You have got to," "If I was..." vs "If I were...", etc.)

Though I did point out earlier that "You/we gotta" is found in e.g. major speeches by politicians. Usually things migrate from informal to formal registers over time, moreso in younger speakers (who eventually become the older ones).

Cerberus

If they aren't euthanised in time.

alphabet

And obviously there are differences between dialects, communities, people of varying levels of snobbery, etc.

Cerberus

*pedantry

alphabet

02:54

Both.

Cerberus

Hehe.

alphabet

@Cerberus A fairly rare occurrence in terms of grammar (slang terms, obviously, do die out fairly often).

Cerberus

I meant those speakers you mentioned.

alphabet

You mean if the speakers aren't euthanized?

Or if the changes in grammar aren't?

Cerberus

The former.

Uneuthanised, they might become the older ones.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…