English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:44

> Trump's book "The Art of the Deal" is the only book with four Chapter Elevens.

Captain Bohemian

01:38

Hunger is a ruin. It even makes me unable to sleep.

I prefer professional terms than vernacular terms.

Captain Bohemian

02:41

Why is hunger so unbeatable？

SmokeDetector

02:54

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Toxic answer detected, blacklisted user (151): Each + singular or plural by Phat Mong on english.SE

CowperKettle

03:47

Word of the day: chrisom-cloth (The term has come to refer to a child who died within a month after its baptism—so called for the chrisom cloth that was used as a shroud for it. Additionally, in London's Bills of Mortality, the term chrisom was used to refer to infants who died within a month after being born)

Knight

04:46

Can someone please tell me where (which book and section) damnation is being talked about? In which book there lies a description of how the damnation will occur and how a mortal would be persecuted?

@Cerberus (sorry if the ping disturbs you, I’m hoping you know it)

CowperKettle

06:43

> Excessive consumption of fructose—a sweetener ubiquitous in the American diet—can result in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), which is comparably abundant in the United States. But contrary to previous understanding, researchers at University of California San Diego School of Medicine report that fructose only adversely affects the liver after it reaches the intestines, where the sugar disrupts the epithelial barrier protecting internal organs from bacterial toxins in the gut.

CowperKettle

07:18

Word of the hour: biliblanket

Captain Bohemian

07:41

How can you read on phone comfortably?

M.A.R.

@CaptainBohemian How big is the screen?

I can't read on a phone comfortably unless it's short articles

Captain Bohemian

But everyone waiting for green traffic light is reading on phone

M.A.R.

Hah, no they're not. They're scrolling and exhaling through social media posts

Xanne

08:09

@CowperKettle The biliblanket article in Wikipedia is so sweet, so loving toward rhe babies,

and

CowperKettle

@Xanne The chrisom-cloth is also nice

"From chrisom-cloth to biliblanket: a history of childcare, 1020-2020"

Xanne

here and there just enough of a clunk on the English to inspire an English editor. Mostly Korean, I guess.

I surely liked that one too,

CowperKettle

I'm just reading about rare genetic conditions and came upon 'biliblanket'

> The participant was then discharged a day later and had to be placed in a bili-blanket for ten days. Concerns about her development first arose at around 4-6 months of age when poor head control was noticed, and she wasn’t rolling over (global developmental delay).

undiagnosed.hms.harvard.edu/participants/participant-172

Xanne

oh dear.

:Chrisom-clothe 5

Too much parent fussing and fear?

Xanne

08:45

Or something really puzzling for the profession . . . where? arussia, more general?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer (61): "These sort of things": is it grammatical? (2,670,000 hits on Google) by yang mina on english.SE

Xanne

One wonders how these childhood problems get taken care of.

Whether the profession has enough biliblankets and knows what to do about the side-effects,

Cerberus

13:08

@Knight I don't know what you're referring to, sorry. It's not very specific.

Knight

13:31

@Cerberus Does God somewhere said how the damnation or punishment will fall on the mortal sinner? I mean you see Dante described the hell, so in a same way where punishment is described in The Bible?

and one more question:

Did Apollo wanted to love Daphne or wanted to abduct/rape her?

Cerberus

13:50

@Knight I know nothing about Christianity, sorry.

@Knight I would say those were more or less the same thing to him...

Knight

@Cerberus Can you please elaborate? For us love and craving for reproductive act are two very different things and contradictory to each other, how for him it was same?

Cerberus

In ancient mythology, there are scenes in which love and sexual desire are differentiated.

But, in many scenes, they are not: it is assumed that Apollo loves Daphne and desires her body.

And gods tend to take what they want.

Even if he had been able to resist Eros's arrow.

The myth as described by Ovid is mainly entertainment.

Knight

14:06

okay.

Thanks.

Cerberus

In most myths, it would not be expected for an Olympian god to marry a mortal, nor even a lesser deity such as Daphne.

So who knows what might have happened...

Knight

Huh?

Cerberus

So, even if Daphne has reciprocated his love, I would not have expected them to marry.

More like a fling?

Knight

Are gods known for satisfying their sensual desires?

Cerberus

Very much so.

The fact that the gods were often portrayed as immoral angered Plato. He proposed to censor all fiction, which had a bad influence on the youth, or something.

Knight

14:13

okay

Oh! I read Plato as Pluto

I'm getting it.

Mitch

I read 'immoral' as 'immortal', as though Plato (or Pluto) wanted them all to eventually die. Kind of a dick move.

Knight

Cerberus can you please write things once again. Mitch confused me even more

Pluto was a god, Plato was philosopher

Mitch

When I become philosopher king, I'm going to censor all things that I don't like. And then have my minions forbid under extreme punishment 1) things I'm only slightly annoyed at, 2) things they imagine I might be bothered by.

@Knight That's what I'm herefore.

If I say something, you can bet it's to mislead you.

Knight

:(

I still call Cerberus as Cerebrum

Mitch

For example: Pluto was a god. Pluto was a Mickey Mouse's dog. Goofy was also Mickey Mouse's dog but was funnier.

Knight

14:24

wait, Pluto was a god, Plato was a philosopher and Pluto was Mickey Mouse's dog.

Mitch

And Hades was the Greek version of Pluto, but also the name of the underworld that he ruled, but in Roman Mythology, the underworld was not called 'Pluto'.

@Knight Correct, modulo what I said about being misleading.

Knight

and yes, Pluto was a planet, Pluto is now a space/stone garbage.

Mitch

Pluto, the object orbiting the Sun, didn't change. But we did.

sigh

Knight

Now, tell me who got angered was it Plato or Pluto?

And if the answer is Pluto, then which Pluto: God, planet, space's stone, or dog?

tchrist

9

A: Spanish equivalent to "he can dish it out but he can't take it"

I don't know if there's a better way to say it, but in Spanish I would use the following: Tiene la lengua afilada y la piel muy fina. First, we have afilado which according to the dictionary has the meaning of "hiriente, mordaz" ('hurtful'). Second, we say that a person "tiene la piel muy fina"...

Mitch

14:31

Plato. The philosopher. He had opinions about how to set up government, and how to write literature. Also he was Greek.

tchrist

> No se puede tener la lengua tan afilada y la piel tan fina.

"You can't have a sharp tongue and a thin skin."

Not bad.

Knight

@Mitch Thanks.

tchrist

Note though tan means "so" there.

You can't have so sharp a tongue and so thin a skin.

Knight

but tan means tangent

we are having so much confusions today

tchrist

That's the original sin leaking through, cos.

Knight

14:34

cos = coz ?

tchrist

Certs.

Mitch

Retsin?

Knight

Today, Tuesday, is considered as holyday in some religions but then also in this good morning I'm having so much confusions.

Mitch

Tuesday's in general, or this particular date this year? Also which religion?

Knight

Tuesdays in general.

Mitch

14:39

Oh. Sorta like Saturday for Abrahaman's?

Knight

They consider this day as holyday (not holiday)

Mitch

Do they get a day off of work?

Gigili

off of o

Knight

No, but they can't have a hair cut on that day.

Having a hair cut on these days is considered inauspicious

Cerberus

@Knight An oddly unspecific request.

Mitch

14:43

so a day off for barbers.

Knight

@Cerberus Hmm... yes I agree with that.

@Mitch For that particular religion barbers.

Mitch

@Cerberus I cleared things up for him. Pluto is the planet (or now considered dwarf plant), also the Roman God of the underworld. Plato is the Greek philosopher and student and scribe to Socrates.

Gigili

Congrats.

Mitch

@Knight Maybe for non-Hindu barbers, they could have Tuesday's half price for non-Hindu's. Then everybody is happy.

Gigili

I see we have another troll here.

Mitch

14:46

@Gigili Who?

Knight

@Mitch I will suggest that to my nearest barber shop owner.

Cerberus

Pluto (mythology)

Pluto (Latin: Plūtō; Greek: Πλούτων, Ploútōn) was the ruler of the underworld in classical mythology. The earlier name for the god was Hades, which became more common as the name of the underworld itself. In ancient Greek religion and mythology, Pluto represents a more positive concept of the god who presides over the afterlife. Ploutōn was frequently conflated with Ploutos, the Greek god of wealth, because mineral wealth was found underground, and because as a chthonic god Pluto ruled the deep earth that contained the seeds necessary for a bountiful harvest. The name Ploutōn came into widespread...

Both Pluto and Hades are Greek.

Knight

I'm a good guy, you can joke with me.

Mitch

@Knight Nice. Maybe he would consider giving me a haircut at an extra special discount.

@Cerberus What?

I mean about Pluto.

Did the Romans just get that extra bit of lazy and borrow the name too?

Cerberus

Yes.

Mitch

14:49

Did the Romans do -anything- original?

Bridges maybe?

Gigili

@Mitch Me.

Cerberus

Some things.

Mitch

Arches?

Or was that the Etruscans?

Knight

@Mitch But that much discount will go negative by the gasoline price that you would need to come here.

Cerberus

The Romans were good at arches.

Concrete helped.

Mitch

14:50

@Knight Oh. Discount on gas price too then? Free gas with a haircut?

@Cerberus Oh. That's pretty clever. Concrete -and- arches.

So let's say the Romans weren't particularly innovative in the humanities. But were really good in public works, civil engineering, and infrastructure.

@Gigili I don't think you're promoting yourself enough.

Knight

@Mitch Then I should convince them for a free lunch too. I will tell my barber “A friend of mine is coming on any Tuesday, pay him for his gasoline, don’t take any money for the cut and give a lunch treat too”

will that be all right?

M.A.R.

@Mitch Sewers

So uh, how much sense does it make that Americans implicitly connect themselves to Romans and Greeks?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at beginning of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (32): "Sugar to you mouth". Looking for an idiom by partha konwar on english.SE

M.A.R.

@SmokeDetector Is that some sort of weird spam?

Cerberus

@Mitch Well, that doesn't really make sense.

Both Greeks and Romans produced great works of literature and architecture.

Mitch

15:04

@Knight Lunch too? I'm already on my way.

@M.A.R. As much sense as it is for Koreans to be Christian.

@Cerberus The key word is 'innovative'. The 'Aeneid' is a lame attempt at emulating Homer. Also, name an actual philosopher that was Latin. Well, maybe not you, but anybody else. Doing the naming that is.

And since the 'Aeneid' is the only piece of literature that is Roman that I've ever heard of, my argument is complete.

There is that dirty Pompeian graffiti though.

@M.A.R. All the Europeans do. The unbroken chain of (European) culture.

But there is the weird fascination with Rome by some of the 'founders'. Yeah, that's weird.

It must have been one of those guys, Jefferson or Franklin or Adams who really pushed it.

Cerberus

15:19

@Mitch Haha.

@Mitch I'm sure you have heard of more.

The philosophy of Lucretius, Seneca.

The histories of Livy, Tacitus.

Surely you remember the deaths of Lucretia and Agrippina, respectively?

And how about lyric poetry?

The odes of Horace?

Catullus's "Odi et amo"?

Of course the Romans were inspired by Greek predecessors, but so were the Greeks.

Mitch

15:55

Ovid?

The feast of Trimalchio? Winnie ille Pu?

CowperKettle

17:05

Word of the day: anti-solar panel ("Developers of the anti-solar panels say they can generate about a quarter of the electricity as solar panels")

Cerberus

@Mitch Voilà.

CowperKettle

Mitch

17:51

@Cerberus To take this seriously for a moment, all of those Latin authors are, in comparison with their Greek counterparts, how to put this diplomatically, ... not as good?

Philosophy: Numerous Greek greats, Latin... any?
Fiction (epics or theater): NUmerous Greek greats, Latin: Virgil, writing Iliad fan fiction
History: Numerous Greek Greats, Latin... OK Livy and Tacitus, but they're not writing about anything much (just self-centered Romanizing).

Philosophy: Numerous Greek greats, Latin... any?
Fiction (epics or theater): Numerous Greek greats, Latin: Virgil, writing Iliad fan fiction
History: Numerous Greek Greats, Latin... OK Livy and Tacitus, but they're not writing about anything much (just self-centered Romanizing).
Cicero: OK, beats any Greek but... I just can't get excited about that.

Who -really- wrote Caesar's war memoirs? Probably a Greek scribe.

Anyway, Rome: 0, Greece: all the points.

Next up: Batman vs Superman

We all know who'll win.

M.A.R.

@Mitch WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME

Cerberus

18:08

@CowperKettle Haha excellent.

@Mitch Nonsense.

Robusto

@Mitch Stop, you're both right.

@tchrist Perhaps "... a tongue so sharp and a skin so thin" or, more idiomatically in English, "... a tongue that sharp and a skin that thin."

Xanne

19:17

It’s not the history and the poetry itself. It’s the experiments with democracy.

Robusto

19:46

@tchrist: It's not just for the West anymore ^

Holy shit.

tchrist

So very yucky.

Robusto

It's just as bad in Boston now as it is here.

There are fires everywhere now.

tchrist

But is it burning there?

Some burning in South Dakota and Nebraska now. A small flash in Iowa.

A little in Florida, but that's not rare.

Texas, but they count as part of the West for this. West of the 100th.

Robusto

We have about four or five active fires in NM, but Arizona has dozens.

tchrist

20:02

We've got seven or eight now, I think.

Robusto

The forecast calls for scattered thunderstorms, but those apparently do more harm than good.

tchrist

That's right.

All lightning, no soaking.

I think that what's going on is that the northern CA smoke stream is merging with a distinct one from AZ and CO and causing intense smoking in the upper midwest and eastwards.

Robusto

Yeah, it hits the jet stream and takes off.

Mitch

@Robusto looks out window

It's mostly just warmish and a little wet every so often.

The news people say we're in a drought, but it doesn't feel like it. Probably affects crops but that's it.

Robusto

@Mitch Yeah, but I doubt you can see even a mile from your house.

M.A.R.

20:17

I wonder why the Christian community does not infer that these are God's punishments upon America because of something, or rather, that something being the president or other recent actions?

How much does being religious overlap with being racist?

Mitch

@Robusto Blue sky near the horizon. WHen it's sunset it'll be easier to tell. It's actually not hazy at all right now.

Robusto

@Mitch What horizon? The roof of the house across the street?

Mitch

@M.A.R. both are associated here with being conservative.

@Robusto looks over shoulder

M.A.R.

Two recent hurricanes, earlier hurricanes, forest fires, an epidemic . . . sounds like a very ripe time for the religious people to be all like "let's repent our sins"

Mitch

Well, yeah, there are too many trees. but in principle when the sun gets closer to the horizon you could tell.

@M.A.R. There's no accounting for stupidity

Robusto

20:19

Here on a clear day you should be able to see mountains 60 miles away or more.

M.A.R.

@Mitch I was actually hoping that'd snap some sense back into them that worshipping a tanned billionaire that advocates violence against American citizens could be why they're being punished

Robusto

@M.A.R. Don't worry, plenty of idiots believe our problems are divine judgments against various social freedoms.

Homosexuality particularly sets them off.

Mitch

@M.A.R. I don't think you can rely on anybody actually thinking things through.

It's all about rooting for your team.

Simplifies things.

Robusto

@M.A.R. He is the punishment, and they welcome him for that.

M.A.R.

@Mitch It's funny that we're not heading in that direction because we don't have a team to root for

I know what hatred feels like though. Something about it shuts off senses. You could be a pretty sensible person at one moment and suddenly remember them dems in the next and feel nothing but an urge to hate them

Mitch

20:25

@M.A.R. I don't really think it's all about 'your team'. but it certainly helps me explain for myself why so many people seem to be idiots. That, and appealing to base instincts.

M.A.R.

There's no reconsideration in it, it's not even a selfish vs. humble thing. Evaluating any action or thought is out of the question

Still, it doesn't seem like it should be anything out of criminal motive

Like, people have their hate resonate somehow

I mean, social media helps that

But it should be what a murderer feels when they suddenly charge and kill someone, but instead they spend hours feeling the same way, yelling and commenting all over the internet. So maybe I haven't felt this sort of hatred

Robusto

@M.A.R. Do you have blasphemy laws in Iran? And what kind of punishments do they bring?

Mitch

@M.A.R. wait...how did murder get into this?

M.A.R.

@Mitch Well, bad example. I'm just saying it leaves no room for reason or second thoughts, except how do you keep feeling that hatred long enough to engage in verbal fights and come up with arguments?

Bullshit arguments, but still

So it doesn't seem like just rooting for two teams to me

@Robusto Because it's Sharia law it's full of "n whips or X money", but if that question's rhetorical, and I offended anyone, I apologize

Mitch

well, not two teams. Just 'here's the people I like. whatever they say I'll go a long with, and whatever other people say is wrong'. just a simple heuristic

M.A.R.

20:36

I'm obviously way out of my league, so I base my hastily formed opinion based on what I see, not anything I've read or deeply thought about

Mitch

I mean nobody is sitting down with a spreadsheet and looking at the platform of policies and the resumes and the personalities features and weighting them all and adding up and comparing. Only weirdos even consider doing that.

starts creating a spreadsheet

throws up hands in discouragement

gnashes teeth

mmm... a tiny bit of lunch got loose there

M.A.R.

@Mitch Hmm, preserved food

Mitch

It's like a little snack just waiting for you.

and nobody else wants it.

Robusto

@M.A.R. No, no offense taken. I'm just curious. The subject was vindictive religion. Are punishments like those frequently administered?

Mitch

re prediction models for elections...

M.A.R.

20:44

Stuffs birthday cake between teeth

Mitch

there are two models...

one is...

'fundamentals'?

M.A.R.

@Robusto I dunno but I guess not. If you file a lawsuit because someone called you Kant, I'd guess you win though

Mitch

I think those are things entirely outside the choice of the candidates.

Robusto

@M.A.R. You mean Immanuel Kant? If so that's an odd bit of name-calling.

Mitch

like

um

how the economy is doing

M.A.R.

20:46

@Robusto Well I meant "cunt" but I was too lazy for asterisks

Mitch

so if the economy is doing well, the incumbent tends to win (that's what a 'fundamentals' model would use as one predictor, the state of the economy.

then I think the other model is demographics maybe? poor people tend towards democrats (currently), something like that.

I should look this stuff up instead of guessing

Robusto

@Mitch Except when they are racists.

M.A.R.

The point is, overall, the law is really lax. When people hear Iran, they read some Sharia laws enforced centuries ago and think what an otherworldly totalitarian regime! It helps whenever the media decides it should demonize us.

Mitch

polls... that's the other prediction model, prediction based on polls

M.A.R.

For example, people are supposed to get punished if they publicly break their fast during Ramadan.

Who does it though?

Mitch

20:51

but I've moved far off from why a particular individiot chooses a candidate.

@Robusto it's not a simple model

M.A.R.

Individiots make it complicated

Mitch

@M.A.R. who breaks the fast or who does the punishing?

Robusto

@M.A.R. That's the picture you get here of any Muslim state. I'm sure there are different shades of that kind of thing, some countries more lax, some more severe, some virtually nominal.

Mitch

@M.A.R. news is like that everywhere. they put the weird interesting stuff in.

M.A.R.

And from what I can tell, since social media became popular among a wider range of people, what the vocal minority is always concerned about is a cheap imitation of what's going on in the US and Europe. Conservatives tend to borrow a lot from rightist conspiracy theorists, and lefties (often younger) borrow from the cultural zeitgeist

@Mitch The punishing. That people get punished for bad hijab or breaking their fasts is from what I can tell something that only ever happens when the urban legends are taken too seriously.

Like those selfie people that fall from balconies and such.

Mitch

20:56

But to @Robusto's point, there are still public executions in Iran, and women still get arrested (not consistently) for showing too much hair.

So women -don't- ever get arrested for their headscarf a little too far back?

M.A.R.

Fard would know better, but from what I have heard some parts of Tehran people have no more Hijab than an average European woman that does not wear clothes too revealing.

Mitch

That sounds like no hijab at all.

M.A.R.

@Mitch not consistently → very, very sporadically

@Mitch Yes, no hair covering, and even some of the leg not being covered.

Mitch

but that it happens at all, -ever-, is crazy weird for anywhere else in the world (except Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia)

M.A.R.

Almost every woman below the age of 25 has some of her hair showing (as some sort of fashion) and applies makeup.

Mitch

20:59

Do people get arrested/charged for blasphemy?

M.A.R.

Maybe very public instances of it if it's against the state

Mitch

blasphemy is only for religious things, like saying ... oops almost got me there.

M.A.R.

We of course very much suck at having free media, but it seems they're slowly getting bolder (despite being all state media)

If something like Epstein happened, no one would have found out except in newspapers and very briefly.

Mitch

saying things against the state is just general protest, for which I'm sure, they don't bother arresting you, they just open the cell door and they lock it behind you.

M.A.R.

But for some news to take off you need it on TV or social media, so something like Epstein would probably even have gone unnoticed by most of the population

@Mitch Yet for all of that you should see the university council. Members freely attacking staff and higher-ups as long as it doesn't get blasphemous

Mitch

21:02

I'm trying to think of some juicy blasphemy...

"Damn that Quetacoatl!"

M.A.R.

It's like a pond frozen at the surface that's getting warmer. In 30 years there would probably only be minor cultural differences between Iran and, say, central Europe. That and the fact that we're piss poor.

Mitch

forgot to quote it

M.A.R.

@Mitch Apparently it's a restaurant, so apparently very blasphemous

Mitch

@M.A.R. I don't know if central Europe is the best exemplar to follow

Robusto

@Mitch Did you mean Quetzalcoatl?

How dare you! That's the god of Wind and Wisdom you're talking about, buster!

Mitch

21:05

@M.A.R. Right. I mean, maybe the food is good?

M.A.R.

@M.A.R. This is if the west doesn't do something stupid to lend credence to a hypothetical Putin to rise in Iran and garner popular support

Mitch

@Robusto I would be lying if I said I meant to misspell it. I blame my keyboard

Robusto

Uh-huh.

Mitch

Don't get me started on the Incan kings. Their names all sound like biologic pharmaceuticals

M.A.R.

@Mitch well, we'll be like all the other nations that are trying to catch up with the cool kids by imitating their fashion and culture but fail miserably

Mitch

21:07

Adalamumab

M.A.R.

Already trying, no doubt.

Mitch

@M.A.R. People seem to really like K-pop

M.A.R.

@Mitch That hype seems to have died down here except for TV. They keep buying Korean series to air

Censoring every song and replacing it with funny very obviously out-of-place music

Mitch

@M.A.R. I think here it is only accelerating.

@M.A.R. What is there to censor? It's pretty clean.

M.A.R.

@Mitch Eh, I don't think too much of it. It's more like novelty items from a culture far far away

Mitch

21:09

maybe the lyrics are dirty?

M.A.R.

@Mitch I honestly have no idea

It might even be something to do with how dubbing is done in Iran

Mitch

or the miniskirts?

M.A.R.

They rip the movie of its own score and add a few things from their own and place the song from the movie at very random locations

Mitch

it's called BEING CREATIVE

M.A.R.

@Mitch If there are, then yeah. But they're usually purchasing historical drama

Mitch

21:11

Oh.

M.A.R.

Often no miniskirts, maybe just some cleavage and the fix is easy for that

There are a few songs from the game Metro and Leon: The Professional that they play for every movie they dub that irritates me so very very much

At least there's a handy source of torture available if Reg and Rob ever visited Iran

Or maybe it'd just be hilarious

Mitch

hm

M.A.R.

Now it's probably time for me to call it a day. G'night

Mitch

later

Robusto

@M.A.R. You're doing a good job of scaring us off. Thumbscrews, the rack, the iron maiden, fine—but poor dubbing? That's a bridge too far, mate.

And cya.

M.A.R.

21:16

@Robusto We had this great team of dubbers but they're passing away one by one :( They used to be led by Mehrdad Hosseini and they actually made quite a few Hollywood movies more enjoyable than the original

Robusto

That's easy to imagine.

M.A.R.

The A Team (remake?). Watched it and I was like this is absolutely fantastic. The real movie is soul-scratching horridness

Ice Age 3 (!)

Robusto

Haha, kind of like "What's up, Tiger Lily?"

M.A.R.

They gave Mandy this gruff voice and old-fashioned fatherly attitude, and the translator was good too and added idioms every two lines of dialogue

Robusto

What's Up, Tiger Lily?

What's Up, Tiger Lily? is a 1966 American comedy film directed by Woody Allen in his feature-length directorial debut. Allen took a Japanese spy film, International Secret Police: Key of Keys, and overdubbed it with completely original dialogue that had nothing to do with the plot of the original film. By putting in new scenes and rearranging the order of existing scenes, he completely changed the tone of the film from a James Bond clone into a comedy about the search for the world's best egg salad recipe.During post-production, Allen's original one-hour television version was expanded without...

M.A.R.

21:18

Sounds familiar but I had no idea what it was

Sounds fun

The Shark Tale had a great dub too

Robusto

Are your oral and aural English skills as good as your written ones?

M.A.R.

Often, the gross pettiness and stereotypical portrayal of characters (often in comedy) either doesn't get translated at all to Persian or is left behind at some stage of preparing the movie for Iranian TV. So some very shitty movies turn into very enjoyable comedy or drama, but great movies are dumbed down instead

@Robusto I can't tell you at all what some English songs are saying but other than that it's probably OK

Robusto

Can you see a movie in English and understand it?

M.A.R.

Oral skills would be better but probably not as good as writing, because my younger brother is also learning to be fluent in English and we converse a while everyday

Robusto

And never mind the songs, I frequently can't tell what the words are in English songs.

M.A.R.

21:23

@Robusto Sure, as good as a native speaker

Robusto

Nice

Can you get foreign films uncensored?

M.A.R.

I've had plenty of ways to test and hone writing and listening skills, but not so much speaking

Robusto

Speaking is the hardest.

M.A.R.

@Robusto This is the land of the free. No torrents are outlawed, and there are plenty of sites to download movies

Robusto

NIce.

M.A.R.

21:25

@Robusto I think if I ever had to, I'd get to an acceptable level in a few weeks in a foreign country

It couldn't have lagged too far behind when everything else is . . . good enough

Robusto

Well, your written skills are top-notch. You are to be commended.

M.A.R.

Thank you, it means a lot!

Robusto

@M.A.R. And yes, there is no real fluency without living in a host country.

M.A.R.

I'm at that age when I'm only recently venturing into the world of books and generally what's out there

Robusto

I recently read my first novel in Spanish, but if I went to a Spanish-speaking country I'd have a lot of work to do to keep up in conversation.

M.A.R.

21:28

I think my vocabulary has improved significantly from last year, but there's a long way to go, and a year from now it'd probably be noticeably different from this year

Robusto

That's a good bet.

I lived in Germany for a while, and got to be able to think in German, but that was decades ago and it's all gone now. I can still understand it, but I can't reproduce it.

It would come back fairly quickly, though, I'm fairly sure.

M.A.R.

I should really head to bed now! Have a nice day and good night!

Robusto

cya

good talking to you

tchrist

21:44

@Robusto They live.

Robusto

@tchrist That is good news.

tchrist

Brings tears to your eyes.

Robusto

In retrospect, they must have survived fires in the past to have lived for thousands of years.

tchrist

"Eucatastrophe" does that to you.

Robusto

“But the forest is not gone,” McLendon said. “It will regrow. Every old growth redwood I’ve ever seen, in Big Basin and other parks, has fire scars on them. They’ve been through multiple fires, possibly worse than this.”

That is such a relief.

tchrist

21:48

> But the 'consolation' of fairy-tales has another aspect than the imaginative satisfaction of ancient desires. Far more important is the Consolation of the Happy Ending. Almost I would venture to assert that all complete fairy-stories must have it. At least I would say that Tragedy is the true form of Drama, its highest function; but the opposite is true of Fairy-story. Since we do not appear to possess a word that expresses this opposite — I will call it Eucatastrophe. The eucatastrophic tale is the true form of fairy-tale, and its highest function.

> It does not deny the existence of dyscatastrophe, of sorrow and failure: the possibility of these is necessary to the joy of deliverance; it denies (in the face of much evidence, if you will) universal final defeat and in so far is evangelium, giving a fleeting glimpse of Joy, Joy beyond the walls of the world, poignant as grief.

I was traumatized by the thoughts of their loss. I know that forest, and well.

Robusto

@tchrist This is precisely what was wrong with the TV Game of Thrones. No "eucatastrophe." Just a slap-dash finish, satisfying in no respect.

tchrist

> As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons.

Like that.

From out of the fire.

Certain destruction.

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