English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

11:22 AM

@Robusto obviously you've never seen Steven Seagal.

11:39 AM

@Cerberus hm. Not really, no. Like, not even subconsciously or by accident. I just went and checked after you mentioned it because I was worried that you were onto something.

Like. Actually, you couldn't make them more different if you tried...

The time signature is different, the tempo is different, the key is different, the harmonic progressions are different, the phrasing is different, the figuration is different.

Good afternoon English Language Usagers

Emptiness is just arpeggios up, scales down. In 4/4. The waltz is chromatic shit up, chromatic shit down, and also chromatic shit sideways. In 3/4.

Did you hear this song - Песенка на память, @RegDwigнt?

Lol "слова М.Минкова, музыка П.Синявского". That's wrong.

Minkov was the composer. Sinyavsky the lyricist.

So you know the song?

I like it very much

11:43 AM

No, I never heard this one. But Minkov wrote "Мы из джаза" and also "Дорогою добра".

And a million other things, but these are the things that everyone knows.

> Stars are out and we sing together
But the stanzas are getting few.
Will they blow down this wind forever,
Can we borrow a breath or two?
Will they blow down the wind forever,
Will they blow down the wind forever,
Will they lose in the air forever,
Can we borrow a breath or two?

I tried translating it

> Как задумчиво светит вечер
Голубыми глазами звёзд
Вот бы взять нам на память ветер,
Тот, что песенку вдаль унёс
Вот бы взять нам на память ветер,
Вот бы взять нам на память ветер,
Вот бы взять нам на память ветер,
Тот, что песенку вдаль унёс

Yeah good luck, mate. Translating poetry is impossible.

I should know, I studied it.

I created exactly one excellent translation, and then I stopped. Because I knew there was nowhere to go from there but down.

It was "The Sail" by Lermontov, in case you wonder. Into German.

Wow

And yeah just as a headsup, "Getting few" sounds distinctly wrong. You need some kind of adjective there, like "Getting sparse" or whatever. But that only rhymes with "arse". So yeah, good luck!

Oops

I know one perfect translation of Pushkin into English, his poem "К поэту"

11:50 AM

Like, when a couple weeks ago I translated Mandelstam for my YouTube videos, I just said fuck it, and went for the literal translation.

> No poet should set store by public acclamation.
Ecstatic praise will pass, an instant in the ear;
The empty crowd will laugh, the fool will have his oration,
But you must stay quite calm, unbending, and austere.

A king, then, live alone. You choose your destination,
Go where you questioning mind shall now elect to steer
To bring perfection to the thoughts you hold most dear,
Requiring no rewards, achieving consummation -

They lie within yourself. As judge you are the best;
In valuing your works, severer than the rest,

This is it.

I even memorized it by heart, it's superb and recreates the same feelings as Pushkin's original in Russian.

Feelings, yes. Language, not at all.

"Go where you questioning mind shall now elect to steer". Nobody talks like that. Ever.

The whole point of Pushkin was that he wrote like you would actually talk.

It is high poetic style

Exactly. And Pushkin was the opposite of that.

Lermontov, too.

That was their whole revolution that they kicked off.

Before them, people would write things like "To bring perfection to the thoughts you hold most dear,".

I know of that revolution but this particular translation is superb, and I like "Go where your .. " etc.

11:53 AM

Then Pushkin came along and wrote things like "I hope my uncle fucking dies".

That was kind of the whole point.

That's a simplification

I don't have the time nor the space here to go into detail.

Da dum da dum, da dum, da dum, da dum ditty dum ditty dum

Yeah, that's my uncle

I suggest that you read Перпендикуляр by Веллер.

It's a series of lectures on this very subject. Very detailed. Truly excellent.

Poetry is crap

11:54 AM

says you

Just a bunch of words strung together

@CupFever sez me, Mr. The World Cup is over what the hell is left to life.

:(

TdF!!!!

France wins it all

if you can call a mode of transport to make life easier a sport.

like fishing

or golf

just round and round

snooze fest

And soccer? just use your goddam hands already

11:57 AM

There. Just for Mitch. No poetry there.

lol

@RegDwigнt I see words in it. Poetic Justice. So you're wrong again. As usual

If I am wrong, then right has no meaning.

There was a movie called poetic justice. It's just calling out for ridicule

Poetic Justice League of the Extraordinary Few Good Men?

11:58 AM

@RegDwigнt By the laws of syllogistic reasoning, there is no meaning

@RegDwigнt If I ever have free time, I will. I like Veller.

Yeah you should do that.

Drop the internet and you'll have plenty of time.

It's like only 200 pages, and it's just a transcript of his lectures, so the language is very casual and it's easy to read and digest. All the while what he says is not mundane at all.

@CupFever to drop the Internet you would have to pick it up first, and those pipes weigh a ton, mate. At least.

Sorry, tubes, not pipes. I'm not a sysadmin. But you get my point.

yeah, I do

I hope you get mine.

12:03 PM

I don't know. You post all your points on the Internet, and I don't have time for that.

Ain't nobody got time for that

Fuck it, dude, let's go bowlin'.

smbc-comics.com/comic/college-level-mathematics

12:27 PM

Well I'll take the three PhDs and a couple Siberian tigers, then. And let them all fight to death. Thanks, mom!

Robusto

@RegDwigнt And yet they're both written using standard musical notation, on staves, black on white. Plagiarism!

Professional vs Beginner Bassoon

@Robusto oh fuck I forgot your were Marvin Gaye...

Well I remembered you were gay alright.

It's the other part I forgot.

Also, haha, you just called the alto key "standard notation". Gotcha. Get outta here, filthy violist!

Also also, yesterday I learned that the bassoon is apparently much easier to play than the flute.

►

On the minus side, you never get to play it because you have to make reeds 40 hours a day, every day.

Robusto

1:04 PM

@tchrist: I see people using se ve que as one would me parece que. Is one more colloquial than the other, or is it just a matter of me parece adding more ownership to the impression?