English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@FaheemMitha It was fun. I didn't hang out with those who sucked up to the regime. You could say there are principled people among those mullahs (less and less these days).

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha it's exactly our education's problem: subjects whose studying makes no sense

Færd

But then I had serious changes in my belief system and deviated from that path.

Long time ago.

M.A.R.

9:06 PM

Stephen Hawking makes a nice Mullah

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Oh, I see. You were being sarcastic.

Færd

@M.A.R. Any hawk would.

M.A.R.

@Færd I'm trying to figure out who you're referring to now

Faheem Mitha

@Færd Really? Fun?

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha if you have a bunch of books to study, it can either be fun or unfun. Kinda your choice

Færd

9:07 PM

@FaheemMitha Yeah, really. One of my teachers, an old guy, was one of the most energetic and fun and funny people I'd known, or have known to this day.

He put all the youngsters around him to shame.

M.A.R.

@Færd Michael Caine

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Fair point. But religion? Shudder.

M.A.R.

Well, the existential crises now and then are fun

Færd

@M.A.R. Don't make me look things up dear.

M.A.R.

@Færd DiCaprio's dad in Inception

Faheem Mitha

9:10 PM

I used to study math. In hindsight that might have been a mistake. But at least it meant something...

Færd

Ah. Rather dull, wasn't he?

M.A.R.

Alfred in Batman's trilogy

Færd

@FaheemMitha In comparison to religious studies?

Faheem Mitha

@Færd Exactly, yes.

Færd

Well, not all religious studies are meaningless.

Faheem Mitha

9:11 PM

I mean, I don't have strong feeling about religion. Unlike Richard Dawkins, for example.

Færd

There's a lot of humanities in them. Languages, history, etc etc.

Faheem Mitha

But I do agree with him that on balance religions do more harm than good.

M.A.R.

Religion can make sense if you make sense of it

Faheem Mitha

Sure, there are good things and bad things in religion.

M.A.R.

@Færd and Arabic

Faheem Mitha

9:12 PM

But much of the time it's just used as a tool for oppression and domination.

Even when it goes by other names. Like Scientology.

Færd

Basically, I can't say I'm a believer now, but I don't regret the time I spent on religious studies and practices. It gave me a lot.

Faheem Mitha

@Færd And art.

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha might as well say country borders do more harm than good

Færd

@FaheemMitha Ah. Sure. Good one.

Faheem Mitha

@Færd Sure. These things are personal choices.

M.A.R.

9:14 PM

Religions give many men a reason to fight, sure

Færd

On the other hand, it does a lot of people more harm than good. I agree with that.

M.A.R.

But so do many other things

Færd

Yeah, it's as meaningless as any other thing that gives peoples identities.

One could say.

M.A.R.

I'm not certain weakening religion does good to the world

@Færd precisely

Some would replace it with disgusting things, such as racism, ism, ism, and so on

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. I'm talking mostly about organized religion.

M.A.R.

9:15 PM

But that's besides the point

Faheem Mitha

But you should read Dawkins on the subject. He certainly has a lot to say.

I read "The God Delusion" a little while ago.

M.A.R.

Most people aren't smart or controlled enough to deduce some things are wrong, so religions build up a wall around them. If restricts them, sure. Sometimes unfairly so. But if stops -- have stopped before -- many from becoming monsters

Oh crap. Battery at 6 percent

Færd

I don't care for hanging on to superstitious beliefs just because they give you a sense of morality.

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Perhaps. Obviously that's really hard to say.

@M.A.R. Are you away from home?

Færd

You can inform people, even ordinary people, about good and bad in a more secular way.

Faheem Mitha

9:19 PM

@Færd Agreed.

But it's harder to justify.

M.A.R.

Us Iranians never wondered whether truth or God exists a century ago. Whether Islam is the right religion or not. And we had way worse lives back then. But the mental state of people now is incomparable to people in those times.

@FaheemMitha nope, right besides the charger :)

Faheem Mitha

It's easy to point to the man in the sky with the long white beard who says this is how it has to be.

M.A.R.

@Færd if you're smart enough not to need them, sure

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Oh. Are you on a laptop?

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha nope, mobile

Faheem Mitha

9:21 PM

@M.A.R. :You're typing on a phone? That can't be comfortable.

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha well, abusing people's idiocy is another thing

Færd

@M.A.R. Well, many grassroots movements that I see among the public are not religiously motivated.

M.A.R.

@Færd you can't deny that people were much much much happier then

Faheem Mitha

As I said above, I think religion is more often used as an instrument of oppression.

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha it's like sitting on a chair full of needles

Faheem Mitha

9:22 PM

@M.A.R. When?

M.A.R.

Burns, then chills your spine

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. LOL

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha I dunno, 100 years ago

The time when we weren't "connected" to the world

Arguably, we still aren't.

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. :How do you know that?

Færd

@FaheemMitha As many other things are. I don't see that inherent to the nature of religion.

Faheem Mitha

9:24 PM

@Færd I think it is.

M.A.R.

Well, if I were to judge something, I'd listen to both sides

Færd

@FaheemMitha It depends on how, or whether, you define a hierarchy of power based on religion.

M.A.R.

You've heard too much from a Dawkins and too little from a smart, religious orator

Faheem Mitha

@Færd I don't feel up to debating this.

Færd

OK.

M.A.R.

9:25 PM

Yeah, let's talk about something else

Like Trump

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. I don't feel I've been influenced by Dawkins. It was just one book.

M.A.R.

It's always Trump

Færd

Not if you don't bring him up.

Faheem Mitha

I thought he made some pretty good arguments, though. But apparently he's also anti-Islamic, which is weird.

Færd

I'm getting seriously tired.

M.A.R.

9:26 PM

@FaheemMitha one book more than a religious side

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Ugh. No.

M.A.R.

@Færd ha, I was gonna say movies

But I don't know if there's a topic we three can chat about

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. I don't go around reading religious books, that's true. I do respect religious freedom. People are entitled to their beliefs.

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha I'm kidding. The whole world is ugh no

Færd

@M.A.R. What have we been doing for the past hour then?

Faheem Mitha

9:28 PM

I actually quite liked "Captain America: The Winter Soldier". Do people in Iran watch a lot of Western media?

M.A.R.

@Færd well, other than religion and politics

@FaheemMitha I dunno. I do though

Yeah, Captain America movies got it right

Færd

I can't easily answer questions where a lot of people are lumped together.

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. The first wasn't so strong, I thought.

I thought maybe they don't allow Western media into the country.

Færd

So Captain America, huh?

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha it was a good start

Faheem Mitha

9:30 PM

Just a random topic. Feel free to suggest something else.

Færd

I'm quite jaded by Hollywood. Give me a reason to give this one a try.

M.A.R.

Origin stories are inherently the weakest

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. :To be clear, I meant the first Captain America movie.

M.A.R.

@Færd Marvel was losing the battle 10 years ago. Now it's devouring Hollywood

Faheem Mitha

@Færd Winter Soldier? It's a surprisingly strong thriller, with a progressive message.

M.A.R.

9:31 PM

It's because of good, dark, or funny movies

Faheem Mitha

Anti-surveillance, specifically.

M.A.R.

And giving people what they wanted to see in heroes

Faheem Mitha

@Færd I'm no fan of Hollywood. But it's hard to avoid.

They have all the money. And US media can be surprisingly varied, on the independent side of things. It's not all Hollywood.

Færd

@FaheemMitha Ah. Now you're talking. Any distinct ideas are developed? Shrewd appraisals?

Or just a blank objection in the void?

Feeds

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Q: What word means 'to cause to be hidden', especially of dissenting opinions?

I think I've been using the word 'occlude' incorrectly. I had thought that one of its meanings was something like "to cause to be hidden" or "to conveniently ignore", so one might say: By describing the history of boxing exclusively in terms of the star athletes, Miller occludes the signific...

Faheem Mitha

9:33 PM

@Færd Not really. It's a Hollywood film, after all.

M.A.R.

@Færd if you want to watch a nice couple of movies that don't have political, social etc. agendas and are real slash dark, watch the new planet of the apes trilogy by Matt Reeves

Faheem Mitha

But it's an entertaining and fun ride. And Chris Evens is surprisingly convincing.

Færd

@FaheemMitha Yeah. I'm thrilled when I explore those areas.

M.A.R.

No unnecessary violence, or any other obscene scenes

Faheem Mitha

The Winter Soldier definitely has tons of violence.

M.A.R.

9:34 PM

Kinda a good start to getting to like Hollywood again

@FaheemMitha no, I meant the trilogy

They have lots of violence too

Faheem Mitha

Nobody has to like Hollywood. But it's there.

Færd

I don't mind violence, or obscene scenes. I don't crave them either.

M.A.R.

But not unnecessary violence

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Yes, i got that.

Færd

It's not what I'm after when watching a movie.

Faheem Mitha

9:35 PM

I thought the Winter Soldier had a strong story, and good execution.

Lots of the Marvel movies aren't up to much.

M.A.R.

@Færd well, if you're jaded by Hollywood, it can be a pretty good cause

@FaheemMitha have you watched the third one, Civil War?

Færd

OK. So independent American cinema. Anyone acquainted with that?

Mitch

@FaheemMitha In the very near future, all movies will be part of the Marvel Franchise

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. I kind of watched it, but don't remember much about it. I plan to watch it again.

Mitch

Snow White vs. the Hulk

M.A.R.

9:36 PM

@Mitch ha, this guy knows what I'm talking about

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch I hope not. But Disney does seem to be taking over.

Mitch

Pride and Prejudice and Iron Man

Faheem Mitha

@Færd I recommend a TV show called "Party Down".

M.A.R.

@FaheemMitha well, kinda as magnificent as its prequel

Mitch

Episode IX: The Last Jedi X-Men

Faheem Mitha

9:37 PM

It's sort of Hollywood, but its sensibilities are independent.

M.A.R.

@Færd I know a bunch of good TV shows

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Did you like Winter Soldier too?

Ironically, I saw it not expecting to think much of it.

M.A.R.

@Mitch Justice Avengers League

@FaheemMitha are you kidding? I love it

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Ah, ok.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha YOu know what I'm tired of? Fight scenes. Whether it's two superheroes, two godzillas, two mecharobots, two girls ninjas, the choreography is mostly the same. punch here, kick there, whoa almost fell off the edge of the wall, smash a chair.

Faheem Mitha

9:40 PM

@Mitch Agreed, they are too often senseless.

Mitch

iT'S SO INFURIATING I WANNA PUNCH SOMEONE IN THE FACE!

Oh.

Faheem Mitha

LOL

Mitch

Now I get it.

M.A.R.

Whoa, someone used a semicolon today on meta.SE

Færd

@FaheemMitha I'll look it up. Thanks.

@Mitch So real life fights are more varied?

Faheem Mitha

9:41 PM

But violence is quite deeply embedded in American "culture".

Mitch

@M.A.R. That should be funny but I'm sure there's already preproduction in place.

@M.A.R. cheese and rice, how dare they

Faheem Mitha

Consider the weird obsession with police procedurals.

Mitch

@Færd nobody real life fights like that.good point. yes.

Faheem Mitha

In US media, that is.

Færd

@Mitch Yeah.

Faheem Mitha

9:42 PM

They are so hard to avoid even I end up watching them. Actually, I've just been watching "Castle". Has anyone watched that?

M.A.R.

@Mitch here's real life people only either push each other or stab

Mitch

more people have been murdered in British crime colving TV shows than currently live in the UK

Færd

Haha.

M.A.R.

@Mitch dont be ridiculous Hastings

Mitch

@M.A.R. It is so annoying. Why do X-men or godzilla punch each other? They have powers.

M.A.R.

9:44 PM

Or was it Hist?

Mitch

@M.A.R. haha. hastings is an idiot

he seems like a nice guy but then he opens his mouth?

M.A.R.

@Mitch his rank drops from Capt to Jant

Janitor

Mitch

Clean up man

Faheem Mitha

Hastings?

Mitch

Captain Hastings. Poirot's sidekick

user330821

9:46 PM

Is it okay to use contractions in academic written language?

Mitch

of course Poirot looks smart.

a doorknob looks smart next to Hastings

user330821

and sorry to interrupt

M.A.R.

@Mitch he's like the guy who crashes with you car then persuades the police you're at fault

Mitch

@Vasilisa Contractions, like didn't, won't, aren't, are usually avoided in formal language, like newspaper/journal article writing, which include academic writing

M.A.R.

@Mitch are you kidding? Doorknobs are like the smartest things in most TV shows

user330821

9:48 PM

@Mitch ok

Mitch

@M.A.R. Hastings or Poirot? Poirot is clever but principled.

Hastings wouldn't be able to argue his way out of a paper bag

M.A.R.

@Mitch Poirot

Mitch

@M.A.R. They do their job. no fuss

M.A.R.

@Mitch one legged chicken

@Mitch well, sometimes there's fuss

Mitch

the american ones are a little strange. not very easy for people with compromised forarms to use (like people with arthritis, carpal tunnel syndrome, broken arms)

but european, a dog can open...usually by accident

@M.A.R. ooh...that reminds me of a good joke

M.A.R.

9:52 PM

Oh no

Mitch

have you ever seen a flamingo? (that's not the joke, it's a legitimate question)

M.A.R.

@Mitch seen an image I guess

I know they sleep on one leg

Mitch

good enough. you ever noticed how they often stand on one leg?

M.A.R.

And the joke was about why

Mitch

Why do flamingioes stand on one leg?

M.A.R.

9:54 PM

@Mitch yeah?

Mitch

because if they picked it up, they'd fall down.

HAH AH AHA HA HA HA HA HAH.

M.A.R.

Harharhar

Mitch

haha

ha

hmmm

M.A.R.

The room is filled with applause and laughter

Mitch

It's a freebie, use it whenever you're with somebody and you both see (on TV probably) a flamingo standing on one foot

Also, watch out for getting punched

M.A.R.

9:56 PM

Please do not wote down, answer the question. — ostal123 21 mins ago

Mitch

hilarity often expresses itself that way I find

M.A.R.

Boy discovers new verb, scientists baffled

Mitch

@M.A.R. clicking link in order to vote down

I feel bad for that guy. he just wants his (way too many homework) questions answered

M.A.R.

@Mitch ya know, I always kinda feel bad for the person whose question I'm VTCing. Except when they're a jerk

I did feel bad in this one too

The problem isn't that he's too lazy to Google shit, it's he doesn't even know he's supposed to

Mitch

@FaheemMitha I think I have seen part of one. I just didn't get into it. Like you said, there are so many, to bother with any particular one it has to really be compelling.

M.A.R.

9:59 PM

The laziness comes after

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Part of one what?

Mitch

@M.A.R. Really? If they're a jerk, I feel conflicted because of bias, and that prevents me from VingTC.

M.A.R.

@Mitch have you watched True Detective?

Mitch

@M.A.R. I don't know chem at all. is that really a googlable question?

@FaheemMitha part of one episode of Castle. The remark of yours that I linked to.

@M.A.R. Not that one either

M.A.R.

@Mitch well, you could search for "neutralization tutorial"

Faheem Mitha

10:02 PM

@Mitch :Ah, right. Just to be clear. So "Castle" didn't catch your fancy?

M.A.R.

@Mitch it is . . . compelling

Mitch

I remember a long time ago watching Law and Order every so often

M.A.R.

And very adult.

Mitch

@M.A.R. makes mental note

M.A.R.

Don't watch unless you're 90 or something

It's not adult because of too much scenes, it's because of the talk

Mitch

10:03 PM

@FaheemMitha Not really. The actors I'd seen before, but it just didn't spark any interest otherwise for me.

Gigili

@Mitch VingTC? Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine and Research Institute?

Mitch

maybe I'm not the best to ask. I don't really care for the police/crime solver shows

wait...Psych was fun

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Fair enough. I've been watching it, but I couldn't really provide any justification for doing so. Though under the hood it isn't really a conventional police procedural.

Unfortunately a lot of US TV is like that. You watch it. Afterwards you have a hard time saying why.

Mitch

@Gigili Vot ing To Close

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch :I watched a bit of Psych. It did seem like fun.

Of course, watching TV is well known to Be Bad For You.

But most do it anyway.

Mitch

10:05 PM

it can be stupidly silly, but it's upfront about that

M.A.R.

@Mitch Hot Fuzz is fun

Gigili

@Mitch WHASIABB

Mitch

it's intentionally stupidly silly, making fun of everything

@M.A.R. That's a great movie

way too much profanity

Faheem Mitha

Actually, watching TV is really a terrible way to pass the time.

I mean, you're getting zero exercise. You're unlikely to learn anything. You're not meeting anyone.

M.A.R.

@Mitch British type, even

Mitch

10:06 PM

@Gigili haha we're communicating by not communicating at all.

@FaheemMitha If you're learning something it is usually boring

M.A.R.

@Mitch 😶😭🙃🤑

Faheem Mitha

And if you do it live on a regular TV, you get to watch lots of ads which will rot your brain. If the show you are watching isn't already doing it for you.

@Mitch Pardon? Not sure what you mean.

Mitch

like 'hunting strategies of the snow leopard' which is an hour watching a cat in the snow wait for a snow rabbit to move'

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch :Ah, nature documentaries.

Oh, and you're not even making any money.

Mitch

@M.A.R. you lost me there. I can't even see details in emojis to misunderstand them

@FaheemMitha I don't make any money in other TV shows

Faheem Mitha

10:09 PM

I suspect that a lot of people do it as an alcohol/drug substitute that won't damage your liver or cause hallucinations. That certainly accounts for a lot of my TV watching.

@Mitch I mean that watching TV doesn't earn you any money.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha You said "You're unlikely to learn anything" and I said "but if you do learn something, you're probably bored (so that with non learning TV you're at least being entertained)

@FaheemMitha I have that same theory. It's like narcotics that are administered through your eyeballs

Gigili

@Mitch Haha, it's great that you had to explain yourself

HAHA AHAHS

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch :I suppose so. But I mean, you can watch lectures online and stuff. But that's not really watching TV.

@Mitch Yes, but it's probably more than a theory. I bet you could make a pretty good case for it, if you wanted to.

M.A.R.

You can also listen to podcasts or watch YouTube videos.

Mitch

my other theory is that TV steals your dreams. That is, all the images that you remember from TV replace the images that you would normally randomly create for yourself while dreaming.

M.A.R.

10:12 PM

Podcasts are fun.

Mitch

@Gigili But he asked. Or is that too much explanation again?

M.A.R.

@Mitch that's half true.

Like, grey

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Interesting. I don't generally remember my dreams, but they tend to be way out there when I do remember them.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha which half?

M.A.R.

@Mitch no, it's just surprising you're explaining your messages. Did you hug your head somewhere?

Mitch

10:13 PM

@FaheemMitha You're having dream, you're just not remembering them because they are mostly nonsense

Faheem Mitha

And my dreams at least tend to be quite primal stuff. Desire, fear, regret.

M.A.R.

Maybe a collision with fast air molecules.

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Perhaps. I wouldn't know. The ones I can remember are often quite coherent.

Mitch

@M.A.R. I like my head. Is that weird to hug it then?

Faheem Mitha

Relatively speaking. I mean, I could describe them.

@Gigili Like he said, I asked.

Mitch

10:14 PM

@FaheemMitha that makes them easier to remember in your more wakeful state

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch I suppose so.

M.A.R.

The ones I remember are iconic, striking some kind of unforgettable feeling of fear, anxiety etc.

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Yes, that sort of thing.

M.A.R.

I remember them years later

Faheem Mitha

For example, I occasionally dream about girls I knew. Not that often.

M.A.R.

10:16 PM

Like that dream about a spider that got bigger when I hit it

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Mine are rarely that memorable.

And in recent years, actually, I can rarely remember my dreams, assuming I have had any.

M.A.R.

It got like 3 meters tall

And I heroically slayed it with my plastic toy sword

Faheem Mitha

@M.A.R. Wow. That's quite some dream.

@Mitch So do you watch any TV regularly?

Mitch

@M.A.R. holy crap that is disturbing

@FaheemMitha Yeah. mostly comedy stuff. Brooklyn 99, The Mick, The Middle (those last too are very different, but sorta the same).

and Jeopardy.

wait...

Jeopardy!

that is, the name of the show is 'Jeopardy!'

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch I watched a little of "The Middle".

Mitch

10:21 PM

they get really upset if you misspell it.

@FaheemMitha For one slice of the US, it is very accurate

and it is definitely a comedy, but sometimes you could hear exactly the same thing but as not exactly a tragedy but sort of sad

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Honestly, I don't remember much about it, but I think I found it a bit depressing.

Mitch

Even though it is about smallish town Indiana (in the 'middle') it really works for most anywhere

Færd

@M.A.R. I wonder if that's just a fancy reminiscent lie.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha Right. One could be a bit outside of it and think that that situation is sort of sad, like how the kids can be a little selfish, how petty people can be. But it is all intended as light hearted and self-deprecating

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch So it's basically intended to be a comedy?

M.A.R.

10:29 PM

@Færd pretty sure it's not. I can -- could, he passed away recently -- see the remainders of the beautiful stoicism of that time in my grandpa.

Mitch

@M.A.R. SUre there have been some major losses of life due to religious wars (the counterreformation/30 years war in Europe, the Islamic conquests, the Sepoy Rebellion), but by listing these, it becomes apparent that most wars are not motivated by spiritualism (though religious differences may appear as rationalizations after the fact)

@FaheemMitha Oh yeah, totally. It's all meant to be funny

M.A.R.

@Mitch you said it.

Mitch

@M.A.R. which all means that generals are generally atheists that want to kill other people.

the soldiers may get motivated by the literal demonization of the other soldiers' religion, but that's usually not why the general chose to send them all in

M.A.R.

They don't want to kill other people

They just want medals

Shiny, shiny medals

Who doesn't?

People get hung up in the middle and get killed. It's their own fault

Mitch

and if having some people you control kill these other people (and maybe be killed too) then so be it. Because medals are pretty cool

I'm pretty sure there's a store that sells medals, where you can get one for a good price, without having to lead other people to die violently.

M.A.R.

10:37 PM

@Mitch but those are all fake