English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

2:26 AM

> ‘Where are we going?’ she cried.
‘How about the movies?’
‘It’s so hot,’ she complained. ‘You go. We’ll ride around and meet you after.’

(from the Great Gatsby)

About the adverbial use of solitary after.

"afterwards" is being abbreviated.

Does that^ sound better? @Færd

Well, the safe choice is afterwards, for sure.

"afterward" works too

Yes.

The characters are speaking colloquially there, I suppose.

Exactly.

2:41 AM

Aug 14 at 2:59, by tchrist

"Can we do something after?" is never something I could write, but I don't know that I've never heard it. Just sounds a bit, I dunno, uneducated?

I wouldn't say "uneducated," more like "brief" or even "terse."

Could be.

If you want to speak fast, use short words :-)

So it doesn't sound unfamiliar to your ear at all.

@skullpatrol Aha.

Correct.

2:47 AM

Thanks.

Q: Marketing terms for platform related costs and for generic expenses

np

Feeds

8:19 AM

0

In a text I am trying to differentiate between costs/expenses/investments which are directly paid for marketing itself (e.g. money paid to Google per click on an ad) vs general marketing costs/expenses/investments (an ad agency you're paying, salaries, software you use, etc.). Are there any indu...

single-word-requests

Q: Terms got from unique characteristics of the noun referred in the term.

9:01 AM

@EnglishStudent double ugh

Feeds

11:36 AM

0

Can someone suggest a list of term been derived from the unique characteristics of the noun referred in the term. For example to say someone, "got bangalored" means to say he or she has got fired from their job because it was outsourced to an offshore company. The term "get bangalored" derives fr...

single-word-requests phrases expressions lexicon

12:29 PM

@Cerberus Ironically my girlfriend has been running Kaspersky for ages and now seems to have a virus that won't let her enable any kind of virus detection.

@MattE.Эллен LOL. I sent you an email that day.

what day?

the day of the star?

Oh a few days ago, I don't remember.

The one where I talked about my current state.

@MattE.Эллен If so, it is best to restore the computer to factory settings.

@WillHunting yeah. I'm worried that what we'll have to do

@MattE.Эллен Well, it just takes a day to reapply all the updates. Just copy all the data somewhere else first.

12:37 PM

true, but what if the virus is in the data?

how can I tell what to back up if I can't scan it first?

Do you mean the virus could be in the user's documents?

yeah. I mean, it could be anywhere

@Færd If I was going to say something like that, I would say afterwards myself.

if not the main virus then the document that allowed it to be installed

Maybe copying the files somewhere else might enable the scan to take place on the new place.

Maybe you just cannot scan on the old place because the whole thing is infected.

12:39 PM

yeah. I guess I'll have to find a memory stick I never want to use again :D

I am just listing some possibilities. I don't really have a clearcut solution for such a problem.

nor me :) it's good to discuss it, though

This Dialect Coach Can Transport You With Her Perfect Accents

et voila

@NVZ Most such youtube clips I've come across purporting to do that underwhelm. That one's not so bad though.

Hehe

She's amazing,

12:51 PM

The capacity for wonder can be blunted by time.

@KitZ.Fox Plot twist at the end. Ha!

Have you guys tried Masal Chai?

It's tea with cinnamon, cardamom, and other spices.

Indian spices, more specifically.

@tchrist I think time has relatively little to do with it. It's just the medium for experience.

Try it

@MattE.Эллен Oh, dear, how unfortunate!

She's fairly good with computers, isn't she?

1:06 PM

@Cerberus she's about average. I don't know how she got the virus.

takes notes

she wouldn't do any of the obvious bad things, like open unsolicited attachments

Hmm.

If doesn't have her browser locked down beyond the default settings, perhaps through some browser exploit?

could be

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Latin equivalent for "case-by-case" phrase by user253076 on english.SE

1:09 PM

Or someone she knows sent her a Word document she expected, but this person's computer was infected and the document contained an evil macro?

yeah. that happened to a client of mine.

luckily I'm not their security contractor

Or maybe I'm just hearing things which aren't actually there.

That's also possible.

@MattE.Эллен If I were a sneaky person and had the time and enregy and a bunch of other reasons for not bothering, I would target the Kaspersky software as the actual vector for the viruses.

But man, getting up in the morning is enough. And you want me to think about things too?

1:25 PM

> So people are always like "oh you have heightened hearing..."

:39486151 I first heard that as "always like how you"

Her aspiration in "like oh" made it sound as though she were saying "like how"

I don't know that variable aspiration of unvoiced stops in English is a feature of any accent in particular. It can happen in several different scenarios without this "meaning" anything in particular, nor is it entirely consistent outside of the start of stressed syllable.

But when we hear it anywhere else than that, we have the natural tendency to mis-identify the sound we heard has having been the start of a word or at least of a stressed syllable, even when it is not. That's what's happened here, I think.

Is "happens" here grammatically correct: "I thought it might be interesting to see what happens if he did that" If "yes" then why not "happened"? Because everything is backshifted there after "thought".

Her natural accent doesn't have any easily identifiable regional features in it beyond those of (whilom?) standard "broadcast English" in the States.

Oh hah.

@Ahmed I think that sentence calls for "I thought it might be interesting to see what would happen if he did that."

@Tonepoet oh okay, thanks.

@Tonepoet Beyond that instance of aspiration in "like oh" (which I doubt would be repeatable) can you hear her saying anything in particular that sounds in any way different from how that same sound would come out in your own accent?

Also do keep in mind that she's hyper-elocuting here.

1:38 PM

@tchrist It's hard for me to determine if we share accents or not, but nothing strikes me as especially odd otherwise.

@Tonepoet what accent is yours?

Mine is a mix of Indian and others

Trying to code when chat's open https://t.co/FfmjFVVM7r

Tweeted by ossia on August 17, 2017 at 11:10 PM

@NVZ I do not exactly know, and even if I did, outright expressing it would reveal something about my probable region, so I shall leave you folk to guess.

@Mitch Coding is distracting with chats, right? I mean chats are distracting with coding.

having to code ruins chat

1:45 PM

I know. Chat always take priority.

1st priority "chat", 2nd "income from coding" etc.

*that for

@Tonepoet Haha.. "If you don't let me know the accent, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

I have a very particular set of party tricks.

@NVZ I watched that movie in the past. I am never impressed by such movies.

@NVZ I have an Antarctican accent I inherited from Jasper. XP

"Taken" I mean.

1:49 PM

@Cerberus The label 'antifa' was created by the American anti-nazis themselves. But it sounds so Germanic, like they intentionally patterned it after what's used in Germany (eg Pegida, AfG).

@Ahmed Some men just aren't impressed by Taken. - Alfred Pennyworth

That said, I'd much rather have religious wars over 'literally' than having to determine the provenance of this stuff.

@Mitch You literally mean that?

@Ahmed I found it entertaining. What was the other action movie with Liam Neeson? (not Taken 2, 3, or whatever #)?

Payback?

@Mitch Batman Begins. In it he tells Bruce his family was "taken" from him.

1:52 PM

THe one where he plays this scientist coming to Berlin but it turns out he might be a spy, or he's being intentionally confused with a spy?

@Mitch Unknown

@NVZ Well, usually they kill the hostage immediately after making their threats etc. And in that movie the villains just seemed dumb and stupid that's why I disliked it. I mean it was all made for "oooh aaah" of the hero. I liked his acting though, it was good.

And Helen Krueger plays an autistic street urchin who helps him find his true identity?

@NVZ I know it's unknown, that's what I'm trying to find out.

@Mitch I said it. Literally. The movie is UKNOWN

2011

LOL

Unknown (2011 film)

Unknown is a 2011 British-German-French psychological thriller action film directed by Jaume Collet-Serra, starring Liam Neeson, Diane Kruger, January Jones, Aidan Quinn, Bruno Ganz, and Frank Langella. The film is based on the 2003 French novel published in English as Out of My Head, by Didier Van Cauwelaert. == Plot == Dr. Martin Harris (Liam Neeson) and his wife Liz (January Jones) arrive in Berlin for a biotechnology summit. At the hotel, Martin realises he left his briefcase in the taxi that he just arrived in, and takes another taxi to retrieve it. On the way, the taxi is involved i...

@NVZ Goddammit I still don't know what the name of the movie is! It is still unknown to me.

@NVZ Why don't they just say what the name of the movie is!

1:54 PM

Who is on first? What's on second? All over again.

'Untitled Action Thriller'

@Mitch inorite? Like a movie that's named "Computer Processing Error" or "404: Not Found"

And why is wonder woman's real world name Diana Prince. Wouldn't it be more likely to be Diana Princess?

@M.A.R. haha...nice

@Mitch It's in the movie itself.. Someone is corrected when they say "princess".

'Segmentation fault: Process Terminated'

But that may already be future tech that is today way outdated.

Like 3 1/2 in floppy disks

Star Trek:TOS had them in 1966. Introduced in late 80's. out of date by early 00's

Liam Neeson Calls Adolf Hitler ( Downfall Parody)

1:59 PM

Hitler speaks to Liam on the phone:

@NVZ Oh. I don't listen to the screenplay anymore. I just extrapolate from the trailer, popular culture filtered through Saturday Night Live, and Jeopardy questions (or is it answers?).

@Mitch I just had a vision or a boring future where top-selling movies are computer software fighting viruses

@M.A.R. The graphics are much better in VR

@M.A.R. Eh, what?

@Mitch the graphics of a vision of the future, or movie graphics?

@NVZ what what?

2:04 PM

@M.A.R. say what again, I dare ya, I double dare ya.

What again, I dare ya, I double dare ya.

Say what again! I double dare you!

Oh, context for posterity

@NVZ I know, I was making that old use–mention joke

@NVZ can't watch YouTube videos :(

@M.A.R. wynaut?

Blocked in Iran

2:12 PM

@M.A.R. Ah.

@Mitch What do you mean "the label 'antifa' was created by the American anti-nazis"?

I thought it was older than Pegida et al.?

> For example, the Autonomen Antifa (M) was created in Göttingen in 1990.

Peter Serafinowicz's 'Sassy Trump' Video Series

For those who can see Youtube. See Peter Serafinowicz's 'Sassy Trump' dubbing. It's hilarious.

@Cerberus Oh. Well, there you go. I only got so far looking on line.

@Cerberus I'm surprised then that it wasn't used earlier then

It was just an example; the abbreviation may very well have been used earlier.

And the full name is far older.

I alwys thought it was called 'Gegen Nazi' in Germany

2:21 PM

That I am not familiar with, but I'm sure there are plenty of similar movements with different.

@M.A.R. is there an inside-Iran video streaming site?

But Anti-Faschisten have been active ever since the NSDAP rose to power.

@Cerberus and anyway both Pegida and AfD are barely 4-5 years old

@Mitch there are probably few obscure sites with a bunch of videos downloaded from YouTube, but nothing YouTube-like

@Cerberus huh...like the ...what was it... White Rose?

2:22 PM

Heh, as if they would care

@M.A.R. how allowing of VPNs are the service providers there?

Probably TOR browsers would work. (Maybe that's illegal and risky)

Really, you're not missing much with youtube. It's mostly crap, or if not total crap, it's a waste of time.

Maybe that's illegal and risky

@Mitch no official records I reckon, but suddenly so many people started using them that they can't stop it anymore

2:24 PM

seems less authoritarian than China

About youtube, I don't see the point in them restricting certain content to US only. I just watch them anyway, using VPNs or TOR or whatever.

@Mitch Indeed.

China is in a tight spot currently

Antifaschistische Aktion

Antifaschistische Aktion, Antifascistische Aktie, Antifascist Action or Antifascistisk Aktion — abbreviated as Antifa (German/Dutch/English) or AFA (Scandinavian) — is a far-left, extra-parliamentary, anti-fascist network in Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Australia, Canada, the UK and the United States of America whose stated goal is to "smash fascism in all its forms". Some of its members are influenced by the theory of triple oppression, and all of its members claim to oppose sexism, racism, and classism. The point of the organization is to exchange information and to coordinate...

1930s at least.

they're pretty tame. I don't see what countries see as so terrible they need to be banned.

2:25 PM

Trump expects Chchchina to solve the North Korea thing.

nobody is making videos calling for government overthrow

unless I'm just not being shown those as possibilities

And in my experience Antifa groups have been in the news quite often since the 1970s.

Or before.

@NVZ Yeah, it's super annoying.

@Cerberus I first heard the word 'antifa' last week. That's why all the curiosity.

But it's mostly Youtube's succumbing to evil copyright corporations in country x, where x is the country in which it is blocked. German GEMA is notorious, for example. Much of Youtube is blocked in Germany.

@Cerberus The news here is... provincial?

2:28 PM

If China helps the US in defeating NKorea, the vacuum will be filled by SKoreans, which is a US ally. And China will be empowering the US, which they do not want to see happen.

@Mitch Oh, because of those riots in America?

The news here is more self centered than China?

People rioting against the rioters?

@NVZ I think China really, really doesn't want a war nextdoor.

What's the deal in the US anyways? Isn't it clear that slavery is bad? Isn't it clear that all colours, white, black or blue, are still people. Why is racism still a thing?

They may pressure Kim, but I don't believe they will ever intervene militarily.

2:29 PM

@Cerberus Exactly. I have some personal connection with UVa and Charlottesville (but I've never been to anywhere in downtown C'ville that were shown on those videos)

Fun fact: Kim is a type of ice cream here

@NVZ You live in India right?

@Mitch UvA is my university?

Blue people might have bigger problems than racism

uva.nl/en/home

2:30 PM

Fun Fact: Lime Ricky is a drink, not a dude.

People go to the website because they can't wait for the next alumni magazine, right? What do you mean, you want a campus map? One of our students made one as a CS class project back in '01! You can click to zoom and everything!

I'm an Indian. Practically, a non-resident Indian. I live and work in the middle east. Dubai, currently.

Oh, dear.

What's it like to live there?

@Cerberus haha...sister cities? UVA = Univ of Va = University of Virginia how they abbreviate it here.

Ah, I see.

2:31 PM

@NVZ Oh, right.

anyway. yes, most people think 'racism bad'.

I suspect that our university is a bit older!

the news is often made by very small sets of extreme people.

@Cerberus You're so suspicious.

suspects

The Usual Universities.

@NVZ Anyway, there's racism there too.

haha..that's called 'what-aboutism'.

2:33 PM

Racism in Dubai? No such thing.

and India

People here have only one thing in mind. Live and let live. (Dubai.)

and make money

Q: How can I tell people that my girlfriend and I don't want children of our own?

Yes, monies, definitely.

I think recently Abu Dhabi (UAE) was named the safest city in the world.

People here are busy, 24x7. No time for racism, or other stupid s**t. LOL

Except me, I may have time to lurk on SE.

an interesting question.

1

Every time there's a baby involved in any sort of conversation (new parent, talking about kids, etc.), if I'm involved the question inevitably turns to me and my girlfriend, and when we plan to have children. We're not married yet and have talked with each other, and we don't plan to have childre...

united-states children

It's on IPS.se

@NVZ well... it is illegal to be homosexual there, so they have some time for other stupid stuff

2:48 PM

LOL

@MattE.Эллен While you're here..

Can mods select two or more duplicates when closing a question?

Or do they have to edit the listed duplicates after closing?

@NVZ Wow...you edited for prescriptive grammar?

@NVZ we can only select one. if two are selected by regular close votes, then I think both are used.

@Mitch Was my edit over the top? I mean, was I overstepping it?

@NVZ ALso, not to gang up on you but where do all the cleaning staff come from? Probably not born in UAE. Probably filipino.

@Mitch Every 4 out of 5 person breathing is an expatriate.

2:53 PM

@NVZ I don't think we do that on ELU unless there is something major otherwise that needs to be fixed, and even then.

A: How to Mark a Question as a Duplicate of Multiple Questions

@Mitch Filipinos are very common here, especially in jobs dealing with customers directly. Secretaries, Receptionists, Restaurants, Waiters..

@Mitch It certainly sounded weird to me reading "How can I tell people that me and my girlfriend don't want children of our own?" If we remove the girlfriend, it would be like "How can I tell people that me [] don't want children of [my] own?"

Hence my edit.

@MattE.Эллен Thanks. So I guess my answer there is correct. I have only the gold tag badge power.

6

Users with gold tag badge having the privileges to single-handedly close as duplicates, and naturally, all moderators, can edit the listed duplicates once it's closed. It's a new feature actually. See the edit button in the image below: Anything is fine. Meta post will get you attention fro...

@NVZ You should ask that on main

@Mitch I'll drop it for now. Looks like OP liked it.

@NVZ Oooo nice edit, thank you for making it look more easily readable! — Anoplexian 2 mins ago

3:31 PM

@NVZ What do you mean? The same is true of your edited version: How can I tell people that my girlfriend and I don't want children of our own? would become How can I tell people that my [] and I don't want children of our own?

Why would that be a relevant argument?

I mean, I also prefer my GF and I over me and my GF, but I don't see how your argument is helping either case.

Aug 8 at 17:32, by Mitch

Aug 4 at 18:49, by Mitch

> i got sick at a party and threw up on the family of the commander of the Apollo 13 mission. It was the wrong thing to do on so many Lovells.

Wrong on so many levels. https://t.co/4tLWT3aene

Tweeted by FailsWork on August 12, 2017 at 1:02 PM

@terdon You haven't removed the entire noun group.

As opposed to NVZ's example.

@Cerberus How can I tell people that my [] don't want children of our own?

How do you mean?

The noun group to be removed would be my girlfriend.

And you have removed the entire second noun group there.

@Cerberus OK, so How can I tell people that [] and I don't want children of our own?

I just don't understand what removing it is supposed to demonstrate.

3:42 PM

Now remove the conjunction.

OK, that would become [. . . ] I don't want children which is grammatical but a completely different statement.

It would be the same operation that NVZ did.

Ah, so the issue is that I want foo is fine, while me want foo is not. OK

Yes.

Gotcha

3:44 PM

So the idea is, when you have a subject consisting of two noun groups with and/or, then each of those groups alone should be able to function as the subject.

@terdon You missed the point. I was not talking about removing girlfriend the word alone.

@NVZ I did indeed yes, but Cerberus explained it. Thanks.

Btw, I'd like to see more users from ELU join IPS. It's a nice place.

4:05 PM

@NVZ But if the E.L.U. crew joins it, every question there will be closed as Primarily Opinion Based. =P

3

@Tonepoet I expect quite the opposite, actually.

The ELUers have a very particular set of skills. Skills to express ideas in the best words. The contents of the answers will definitely be subjective, but that's okay. There are no authoritative bodies or scientific articles to quote for most of the posts there.

4:56 PM

Can I use these interchangeably:

1) "I like to ask for occasional advice"

2) "I occasionally like to ask for advice".

@Ahmed no

"occasional advice" is not the same as "occasionally ask"

Q: Do I need to put a comma after 'instead' in this sentence?

oh okay, thanks.

So what does the first one mean? Looked similar to me in meaning.

Ah yes, "asking" and "getting advice" are different things.

@Mitch Yep, Youtube is crap except for songs' searches and silly tutorials.

Feeds

5:20 PM

0

add-value project: a project, particularly an investment, where you are not just going to buy the property and hold onto it, but instead, you will add something to this property to create a higher value than it had to begin with.

single-word-requests

@Feeds that's no single word request! What tom foolery is this?

@Ahmed I think they usually mean the same thing, but the first sentence might be more ambiguous because occasional advice could also reference advice pertaining to a certain occasion, at least hypothetically speaking.

@MattE.Эллен Somebody is probably parsing the tag name incorrectly, as a request for information regarding a single known word. This is the second time I've seen feeds do this recently.

Anonymous

Correct the sentence so that the initial phrase refers to the subject of the sentence: "Young and inexperienced, the trip sounded easy to me." I was thinking along the lines of: "Young and inexperienced, I thought that the trip would be easy." But that deviates too much from the original sentence...

Anonymous

Any ideas ?

@Blue Does the problem involve a dangling participle?

5:31 PM

@Tonepoet I suppose we can't blame feeds for doing its job (i.e. posting SWRs into chat)

@MattE.Эллен I don't think I've ever seen a positive @Feeds

yelling at feeds is yelling into the voids, so I don't think it matters

@MattE.Эллен Or more accurately speaking, posting questions which are tagged S.W.R. in chat. It just can't know any better. Hypothetically, somebody could abuse the system by mistagging a question on purpose just so it gets posted into the chat feed, for additional publicity.

@Tonepoet true. luckily it's not a widely advertised system

Or I could post a S.W.R. of my own and star it. >_>...

5:37 PM

:-o

so devious

Hi.

Hi!

@MattE.Эллен Have you read my email? =)

@marcellothearcane I don't like the feeds myself.

nobody does, it seems

I was wondering if you can turn them off

I think some do like it, those who added it to this room, so it's fine.

5:44 PM

Isn't it in every room?

I don't know, things keep changing here.

okay..

mods can change what it posts

@MattE.Эллен 'Tis something I've been seriously considering ever since tchrist implemented the feeds.There's technically no rule against it (as far as I know), and I think I know how the system works well enough to pose a S.W.R. which complies with the demands we usually make of them by now. Check a thesaurus for every possible answer, invent some contrived contextual sentence where I might use it and specify why I need such a word. I even have a question in mind...

I think tchrist set it to swrs

@WillHunting yes. sorry, I've been busy recently

5:46 PM

@MattE.Эллен That's good for you. It means you are doing happy things. =)

@WillHunting well, I've been working :D

@Tonepoet yes, that should be fine. Gaming the system isn't specifically against the rules, it's all about how you do it (e.g. sock puppet up voting)

@MattE.Эллен I think serial voting is a controversial issue though. What if I really think that all the posts of a person are good or bad? The automatic reversal of serial votes and the monitoring of voting by moderators on a long term basis is only an imperfect solution to the problem.

@MattE.Эллен I'll keep that in mind. For now though, I'm not in the habit of asking Stack Exchange for any favors and I'm not sure if and when it would be a good idea to start doing so.

@Tonepoet I see, thanks.