English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@Tonepoet Actors. Casting. They're all aliens. Earthers, though instrumental (with others) in the formation of the UFP, are a later addition to the space community.

Matt E. Эллен

3:20 PM

ST:RNG should be a thing. I'm not sure what it would do, though, beyond a normal RNG

Mitch

RNG? RNG. RNG?

Tonepoet

@Mitch That's almost clever, but we're on earth right now...

Mitch

Rocket Napelled Grenade?

Matt E. Эллен

Raucous Numeration Generation

Mitch

@Tonepoet My point was about casting. not about the characters.

@MattE.Эллен I'd watch that

(to be honest, I often have)

Matt E. Эллен

3:22 PM

it'll be the next reality TV

user288256

I'm not getting all the short forms here. UFP, DS9, ST:RNG etc.

user288256

maybe that's because I don't watch Star Wars. Or is it Star Trek? Sorry dunno.

Matt E. Эллен

Unified(?) Federation of Planets, Deep Space 9, Star Trek: Random Number Generator

user288256

oh okay, thanks Matt

Matt E. Эллен

ST:TNG is Star Trek: The Next Generation

user288256

3:25 PM

I see

Mitch

@Ghalib No problem. Star Trek is the TV show (and some movies) starting with Spock and Capt Kirk an the Enterprise. TOS is The Original Series (back in the 60's). TNG is the Next Generation with Capt Picard (Patrick Stewart). DS9 is Deep Space Nine is with Avry Brooks (who used to be on Spencer for Hire with David Hasselhoff) . Voyager is With Capt Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) and Enterprise is with Scott Bakula). wikipedia fot it. for it all.

Matt E. Эллен

and there is going to be Start Trek: Discovery, I think, coming soon

ogod. I just realised that shortens to STD

/facepalm

Mitch

Oh. UFP is the United Federation of Planets, a constitutional confederation (it's not technically a federation if you look at the governmental details). It includes Vulcan, Andor, Earth, Epsilon Eridanii, 61 Cygnus, hm... some others I can't remember. Oh maybe the Klingons joined up at some point once the Berlin Wall fell.

Matt E. Эллен

They left again during DS9, but may have rejoined after the fall of the shape shifters (what were they called? the consortium?)

user288256

@Mitch wow, that's one neat summary.

user288256

3:34 PM

cool

Mitch

@Ghalib Yeah it's pretty much all you need to know.

Star Wars on the other hand...OMG

Matt E. Эллен

Star Wars gave us Monkey Island, so no matter what it was worth it.

Mitch

Spoiler Alert-: The Force is Magic

Also, in Star Wars everybody is illiterate. Look it up. Nobody ever reads.

Matt E. Эллен

I read. I'm not in Star Wars, though

so... thesis proven

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен But if you can't read, you can't look it up to check whether it's true. So it's fake news

Matt E. Эллен

3:42 PM

If a clickbaiter lies in the forest and noöne's around to fact check, is it still a waste of time?

Mitch

The adsense is still charging your bank account so...

Matt E. Эллен

profit!

Mitch

I feel like I skipped a step

The '...' step, that one's covered.

Matt E. Эллен

lie in the forest
???
Profit

Mitch

@Ghalib How do I know all this? Since kindergarten I acquired the knowledge. After 12th grade I went straight to college

Matt E. Эллен

3:56 PM

Google AI is clearly primed to take over the world:

1.72 million picometers tall. https://www.reddit.com/r/softwaregore/comments/6iqghk/how_long_has_theresa_may_been_pm/ https://t.co/O8lz5j7wRh

Tweeted by bradfitz on June 22, 2017 at 9:09 PM

user288256

@Mitch Okay, that's cool. And after college?

Mitch

4:14 PM

@Ghalib Starfleet Academy obviously. Plus lots of reruns

user288256

haha

user288256

Gotcha

user288256

I knew you were joking.

user288256

@Mitch I consider myself a thinker and a reader, so I can't be in Star Wars too I reckon?

user288256

@Mitch what's your degree in by the way?

user288256

4:21 PM

I have a couple of degrees myself but they are from local universities, I mean not from places like US etc.

Mitch

CS. Also, college education in the US is overrated.

user288256

Depends on the college there. But I see what you mean.

user288256

So my boss at work has made me an insomniac. He is never satisfied. He is always giving me stress.

user288256

And I wish they had taught me in school/uni how to deal with assholeish bosses at workplaces.

amWhy

6:26 PM

@MetaEd Hello! I'm simply exploring the site a bit, and especially so the tags, which give me a glimpse of and an overview of the range of content on this site.

caub

7:05 PM

Is there any singular or plural words ending with "ous"? I mean non-uncountable ones

morewords.com/ends-with/ous I don't find any

Cerberus

@caub I presume you mean nouns?

caub

anything existing in english, that would end with "ous"

Cerberus

There are tons of adjectives on -ous.

Besides, you can use adjectives as nouns, e.g. the pompous = pompous people.

caub

but they don't have different plural/singular forms right?

context: github.com/blakeembrey/pluralize/issues/60

Cerberus

@caub Indeed not.

caub

7:16 PM

ok, thanks

English is way easier than French for that

Cerberus

Maybe there exist nouns on -ous that get -s in plural, but I can't think of any.

caub

you mean ous+es in plural?

Cerberus

Yes, or the other way around, some singular that is changed into -ous for plural.

caub

oh ok, something irregular

Mitch

7:49 PM

Couscous

We had couscous for dinner

I'm just telling you what's going on in my life

caub

one cousci, multiple couscous

Mitch

8:30 PM

@caub I found one! And it's for real!

I think

hm... the dictionary I'm searching through says it's OK, but spellcheck says not.

sarcophagous

Cerberus

That's an adjective.

sumelic

Geez, three upvotes for a "sovereign citizen" style conspiracy theory answer?! english.stackexchange.com/a/390363/77227

Cerberus

Meaning the same thing as carnivorous.

Mitch

the dictionary I have seems to be giving lots of what I would call 'alternate' spellings for things I would normally spell with '-us'

@Cerberus ain't it like a coffin for a coffin?

Cerberus

It means flesh-eating.

sumelic

8:33 PM

@Mitch: The noun is spelled " sarcophagus", but they are frequently confused, like "humus" and "humous", or "mucus" and "mucous".

Incidentally, I only realized just now that "humus" shouldn't be pronounced the same way as "hummus." (At least, not the way I pronounce "hummus" -- /ˈhʊməs/)

Cerberus

You could perhaps use sarcophagus for the adjective if you really wanted to, but not the other way around.

Mitch

@sumelic that's just weird

@Cerberus Oh.

dang it.

continues searching for -ous nouns

Cerberus

@sumelic Oh, interesting, I would have expected /'hʌməs/.

Mitch

tuchous

@Cerberus really what's the difference?

Cerberus

Although we say /ˈhʊmʊs/ in Dutch.

@Mitch Longish u versus short u.

sumelic

8:37 PM

@Mitch From this Onelook list, nous, and burnous seem to count, but they are both loanwords like couscous, and "burnous" has other spellings that seem to be more common

Cerberus

Hoody versus hummer.

Mitch

@Cerberus oh. book vs buck?

Cerberus

Yes.

sumelic

@Cerberus That also exists, according to Merriam-Webster.

Cerberus

Yeah.

We also never know how to spell it in Dutch. Hummus? Houmous?

Mitch

8:38 PM

'frabjous' is in my word list

world successfully trolled by Carrol

Cerberus

Not in mine!

Mitch

it's vorpally cromulent

sumelic

@Cerberus What about "hoemoes"?

Mitch

sphagnicolous

Your face is so sphagnicolous

Yeah, go cry to your mother

sumelic

@Mitch !!!

Just win baby

8:41 PM

Hi @amWhy welcome :-)

Mitch

I don't even know what it means

best kind of insult

steatophygian

amWhy

@Justwinbaby Thank you, @Justwinbaby!

Cerberus

@sumelic Good one, I don't think that's ever used.

Just win baby

How are you? @amWhy

sumelic

> Pepper is known all over Washington as a shameless extrovert!" Pepper has a sister who was once a thespian!" "Pepper practiced celibacy before his marriage!"

msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/…

Mitch

8:45 PM

There's only one meaning for 'polysemous'

amWhy

@Justwinbaby I'm well. I've always been curious about this SE site, but have spent most of my time on math.se, which has gotten old. So right now, consider me someone on the sidelines, checking the site out! Thank you again, @Justwinbaby, for your sincere welcome and follow up!

Just win baby

:-)

sumelic

@Mitch But incredibly, some people are afraid "homophone" may be understood as having an entirely different meaning:

> “People at this level of English,” Woodger says, ” … may see the ‘homo’ side and think it has something to do with gay sex.”

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=13692

caub

@Mitch well nice, but trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=sarcophagous,sarcophagi

Mitch

@caub given what Cerb said (that it really is an adjective with -ous), all those searches are probably people misspelling sarcophagous

caub

8:57 PM

Ah ok

Mitch

I did find these questionable others:

succubous
incubous
discous
mucous

but all probably those alternate spellings for -us endings

Tonepoet

9:13 PM

@Mitch Regardless, that objection fails to nullify the point I had to make. Naturally those characters have non-white actors...

Mitch

> Since intelligent people are not a protected group under U.S. employment law, Mr. Woodger was apparently on solid legal ground in firing Torkildson.

@Tonepoet Well, there's our problem. What was the point you were trying to make?

Tonepoet

@Mitch That there was more than one non-white person on star-trek. If you're complaining that I can't name the actors then, I can't remember the names of most actors anyway.

However, I imagine even people who know nothing about Star Trek will recognize Whoopi Goldberg (who played Guinan, the barkeeper) and Le Var Burton (Geordi La Forge) on sight.

She was only semi-regular to my recollection, since she wasn't a Bridge Officer, so that's just a memory jogger. She was definitely recurrent though.

Cerberus

9:31 PM

Her role was a bit weird, like some kind of mystic.

Mitch

@Tonepoet Sure, there are a number of non-white actors in the entire star trek series. but for a series whose inherent theme is modern social progress, there are very few minorities cast. Each show had usually 1 but at most 2 main characters (an ensemble of ~7) as minorities. But then consider the numerous extras, special guests and even more numerous non-speaking parts extras. All white.

That was my point from the beginning

sorry for not making that explicit

TOS was ground breaking for it's inclusion of a number of minorities

after that... not as much

Cerberus

@Mitch Not to mention that everything is in English.

Mitch

@Cerberus I let that pass with an appeal to 'universal translator' technology

Cerberus

It is a series aimed at American middle classes, after all.

Mitch

which they sort of handle in Enterprise where it doesn't work very well.

Cerberus

9:33 PM

@Mitch Even with all the jokes about idioms?

Mitch

There's maybe one episode that is Darvon at Tenagra quality.

Cerberus

We've had the UT discussion before...

Mitch

or what ever that dude's name was.

Cerberus

Yeah, that was bad.

Mitch

@Cerberus I don't know.

@Cerberus I'm more and more impressed with it, that they did it.

Cerberus

9:34 PM

But, in case you hadn't noticed, the series is in a great many ways not realistic as representing a future, fused global society.

Mitch

But the show itself is not very watchabie, and the premise doesn't hold intellectual water that well.

but it makes you think.

is that contradictory?

@Cerberus yeah.

Cerberus

The space opera parts can work without being super consistent.

Too bad large parts of the series are not space opera.

Or not as space opera ought to be.

Many of the romantic and social issues are super uninteresting.

Mitch

The idea of post-scarcity will both simple-minded and unrealistic, is contradicted all the time with having to setup trade routes and mining operations for dilithium and tribbles getting in the quadratriticale.

Cerberus

We don't want to watch a scifi series for second-rate romance; we want it for the space stuff.

@Mitch Well, Star Trek is I think more bordering on communism.

Mitch

@Cerberus Star Wars is space opera. Star Trek is nerd soap opera

Cerberus

9:37 PM

Citizens don't make money, but the state does.

Mitch

@Cerberus all the situations we see on board the ships is quasi militaristic (despite the 'scientific mission idea). And the military is entirely a command-everything.

Cerberus

@Mitch Well, whatever you call it: people watch it because they like space battles, future technology, aliens, adventure in a setting with all of those things.

Mitch

@Cerberus There are done as well nerds think them to be.

which means I agree with you they are done poorly

Cerberus

@Mitch Well, that's one out of a hundred things that make this future society very American, of course.

Tonepoet

@Mitch That's a more accurate observation, although there is reason for that. Minorities groups are in the minority by definition. I wonder what the racial makeup of the total number of qualified applicants was.

Cerberus

9:39 PM

@Mitch But your "nerds" want to watch a series with the things I mentioned, not with e.g. the endless bickering between two lovers.

Just win baby

Good point^

Mitch

@Tonepoet it's pretty obvious that 'in the future' the number of races that there will be will be reduced.

because...

Tonepoet

Homogenization.

Mitch

they'll all be mixed

so right now, it's a problem with distinct races not being cast into the roles

Cerberus

But that won't happen within 400 years.

Mitch

9:41 PM

@Cerberus ??

America ain't all battleships

Cerberus

The army pervades American society to a great extent.

Mitch

@Tonepoet ugh. casting. stick with the thread

Cerberus

With hospitals, agencies, huge budgets, etc. etc.

Films.

Popular culture.

Corporations.

Mitch

@Cerberus that seems like a long time, given how much immigration has happened (and we can expect to happen)

@Cerberus you're been watching too many movies.

Cerberus

Even in countries like Brazil, there are a great many black people, and also blond people.

And many redheads in Holland.

It takes a very long time to get rid of blue eyes, even though the genes are normally recessive, I believe.

@Mitch No, it's a fact.

Mitch

9:45 PM

there's no mandatory draft in the US, but there is in Germany. Germany is so militarized, the army is integrated into all parts of society. every young man has to have military service (or the alternate community service). Germany has military through and through its society.

Of course I'm hyperbolizing.

Cerberus

Does Germany have military hospitals?

Mitch

@Cerberus yeah. too much TV/movies. That's the only explanation for this idea

Cerberus

A huge part of its budget going to the army?

Endless works of pop culture about its army?

@Mitch Umm no, these things exist.

Mitch

@Cerberus haha... only american ones on american bases

Cerberus

There you go.

Just win baby

9:48 PM

Let's not forget The Pentagon was one of the targets on 9/11.

Mitch

@Cerberus Yes, it will take a while for China to homogenize because they don't have an immigration situation. (India is arguably already mixed 2000 years ago from north to south)

Tonepoet

Hmmm...

Mitch

@Cerberus There may be interesting points to what you're saying but "Military pervades American society" is just not true.

All the European airports have military presence, guys with machine guns walking around the airport. American ones do not.

Just win baby

Why does the American eagle have arrows in one claw then? @Mitch

Mitch

TV/Movies are entertainment, things that are made up. THey're giving you the wrong impression of daily life

@Justwinbaby sigh. That's art

Just win baby

9:57 PM

It imates life.

Mitch

You guys are confusing very entertaining fiction with reality

Just win baby

Anthems before sporting events is a reality.

Mitch

Your countries are all, to different degrees, filled with military presences, from citizen members of the military to economic support of the military through taxes and also employment of local non-military industry through contracts to the military.

@Justwinbaby Keep focussed. That's not military.

Gun problems are not military

PTSD and TBI of veterans - military.

News worthy? very. Pervasive? No.

Just win baby

Nationalism leads to homeland security.

Mitch

Sure, the US military is the largest in the world, budget more than the next largest 4 or 5 combined (or whateveer the shocking number is).

But that doesn't mean pervasive in American society.

Just win baby

10:03 PM

Where does the money come from then?

Mitch

@Justwinbaby ugh. Still? That's just silly. You're just taunting me.

Just win baby

From American society.

Society approves it.

Mitch

@Justwinbaby ??? I have no idea where you're going with this. You might as well finish it off so we get your point. Presumably it shows how the american military is pervasive in American society.

@Justwinbaby Your (entire lack of substantive) argument works for any country anywhere.

Just win baby

True.

@Mitch sorry pal, I didn't mean to give you that impression.

Mitch

Huh. Germany stopped conscription in 2010. But Norway and Sweden still have compulsory military service. Norway is pretty socially futuristic like Israel and force women into it also. So there's hope for all of us?

Just win baby

10:16 PM

Looks that way.

Mitch

@Justwinbaby no problem. It was all about Cerb's statement the "Military pervades American society", and you were throwing out irrelevancies to that.

The military pervades Norwegian society.

Norway has a terrible gun problem. Also a terrible immigration problem and a terrible racism problem.

Just win baby

Singapore too.

From what jasper says.

Mitch

@Justwinbaby Yeah. lots of countries do. But Singapore, Greece, um... there's a list somewhere, have compulsory military service. (which does not necessarily translate to 'pervades'). Israel, yes.

Iceland on the other hand... they've in fact solved the teenage drinking problem.

and I'm pretty sure they don't have an immigration/racism problem

They don't have a homeless problem

I don't know if they recovered from their financial problems

tchrist

Why do we say crêpe wrong?

Mitch

they have a big glacier problem. That pervades Icelandic society. The foundations of Icelandic society.

Literally

@tchrist I think that goes to the nub of the whole thing

Why do we say Beijing wrong? Bayzhing instead of the perfectly easily pronouncable Baydging

@tchrist I don't think there are any words in English that end in /ɛp/, they all in end in /eip/ so by analogy...

um... except for ...

tchrist

10:27 PM

step

step, pep, yep,

slept

kept

grep

leapt

10:28 PM

hep

Mitch

but...

tchrist

kep

Mitch

drape, scape, traipse

tchrist

klep

nep

Mitch

shape

gape

tchrist

10:29 PM

parsnip

Mitch

escape

tchrist

prep

rep

schlep

shep

strep

trek

Mitch

cepe
crepe
estrepe
guenepe
Praesepe
semicrepe

are the only words ending in 'epe'

tchrist

Nyarlathotep

Mitch

and I don't know how to pronounce them

Amenhotep

tchrist

10:32 PM

> again-clepe ← aˈgain-
† barly-lepe ← barley
† beˈclepe [v.]
× bederepe → bedrip
× berelepe → bearleap
× berlepe → bearleap
× bidrep(e → bedrip
† bread-lepe ← bread
× bywepe → beweep
‖ cèpe [n.]
† chaucepe [n.]
× clepe → clip
† clepe [n.]
† clepe [v.]
× coepe → cope
× crepe → creep
‖ crêpe [n.]
crêpe [v.] ← crêpe
crêpé [adj.] ← crêpe
× depe → deep
† depe [v.]
× diep(e → deep
× drepe → dreep
† drepe [v.]
estrepe [v.]
† forthˈclepe [v.]
› georgette crêpe ← georgette
× grep(e → grip
× heep(e → heap

The × entries are historical spellings.

The † entries are obsolete.

The ‖ entries are unassimilated foreign loanwords.

Cerberus

10:57 PM

@Mitch And yet South Indians are a lot darker than North Indians...

@Mitch I've never seen that.

But I meant the things I mentioned, the things that actually become part of society.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…