English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

17:00

the latter are just 'everything' stores which have a grocery section, so 'sort of'

Cerberus

Very little waiting.

Also because the tourists can't use them.

Mitch

@Cerberus if you only have a handful of things

@Cerberus ?? why not?

need a visa?

Cerberus

@Mitch No, you can use a basket.

@Mitch 1. Because they're too stupid, like all tourists are.

2. You need a regular bank card; credit cards won't work.

Mitch

'handful' = as many things as you can get through a '10 items or fewer' line without having people behind you complain audibly.

Cerberus

I suppose most European tourists have regular bank cards, but they probably fall into category 1.

@Mitch Oh, we have no such limit.

Mitch

17:02

@Cerberus at home I feel like a tourist

@Cerberus ?? UNFAIR!!

Cerberus

How so?

@Mitch Time to get a different card, then!

Mitch

At Home He's a Tourist

►

Cerberus

Normal shops don't accept credit cards, probably because they're more expensive for the shop.

>
This video is not available.
Sorry about that.

Mitch

@Cerberus now that I think about it, the self-checkout lines may not have a limit here either. I just don't tend to see that. Or if I have a lot of groceries, it's easier if someone else does all the checking out.

@Cerberus you're missing so much

google youtube gang of four tourist

Cerberus

I suppose, if you have a huge mountain of groceries in a trolley, it won't fit.

Mitch

17:05

@Cerberus nah, you can do it, it's just needs two people one to swipe and one to bag.

Cerberus

But people in the city usually just buy groceries for one day or a few days at a time.

Mitch

but then, why bother, the cashiers are paid to do it and they're better/faster at it.

Do you have to bag your own items there?

Cerberus

@Mitch But there isn't enough space!

Mitch

@Cerberus well, that's not very frontier like.

Cerberus

@Mitch Because then you'd have to stand in a queue!

Mitch

17:06

We drive hundreds of miles to the local distribution center to collect supplies for a month.

Cerberus

@Mitch Oh, there isn't a supermarket in the country where someone else would bag your items!

Mitch

@Cerberus even the self checkouts have queues, especially if someone has a big full shopping cart!

@Cerberus The US method is for the grocery store staff to bag things.

Cerberus

Maybe wages are higher here; at any rate, it would be much more expensive for supermarkets if they had to hire people to bag items.

Mitch

I think in France they do it that way? I can't remember.

@Cerberus bagging items is a job given to high school kids or new employees or retirees

Cerberus

@Mitch Here they have no or very short queues, if only because there are more of them: 1 regular cash register takes up as much space as 4 or 8 self-checkouts.

Mitch

17:08

@Cerberus yes, same here

Cerberus

@Mitch Still, if I do it, it gets done for free.

So the supermarket won't have to pay those kids.

And my groceries get to be cheaper, hopefully...

Mitch

@Cerberus what if the aliens descend?

Cerberus

I'm standing there waiting anyway, so why not let me bag my items?

Mitch

actually more seriously, what if you live in east Ukraine. civilized one day, next day troops come in and commercial supplies disrupted. no food.

Cerberus

I can finish bagging my items at almost the same time the cashier finishes scanning my items.

Mitch

17:10

also use preservatives in you food.

Cerberus

@Mitch Move on to a better place?

Like Kiev?

Hell?

Mitch

@Cerberus I'm sure there's a data-backed hypothesis we could make to compare.

that is annoyingly extra work

that I won't pay for

Cerberus

If someone else is bagging your items, someone must be paying for that.

And, if it doesn't save you any time, then why?

Mitch

@Cerberus as a USian, I found it very nervewracking to take food out of the cart, and then have to bag them quickly while also having to pay and then get out of the way of the person behind.

englishstudent

@Mitch Like a warehouse? I don't follow. Why not just a supermarket?

Mitch

17:13

@Cerberus totally saves time and anxiety

sumelic

@englishstudent Hello!

Cerberus

@Mitch You can leave the food lying on the err space "after" the cash register while you're paying, then bag it later, if you can't keep up with her speed.

But there is no reason why I can't bag items as fast as she can scan them.

Mitch

@englishstudent I was exaggerating. but most people do go only once a week (for a weeks supplies), and maybe once or twice during the week for something forgotten or something special)

Cerberus

While I'm standing there, I would otherwise just be waiting for her to scan and bag them.

englishstudent

Kiev is a nice place.

Also New Zealand. If only I could get a job there.

SmokeDetector

17:15

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: A term for someone who distributes flyers by John on english.SE

Mitch

@Cerberus well, that gives me THE LUXURY OF TYPING ON MY PHONE TO CHAT WITH YOU GUYS!

englishstudent

@Mitch Hah.

Cerberus

@Mitch Hah!

It takes only like 30 seconds anyway.

Kiev.

Tonepoet

@Mitch If you ever find yourself wanting to bag your own groceries for any reason, a good solution to that problem is to just put the food in the cart and push it out of the way.

Mitch

@englishstudent there's a trend for supermarkets to get bigger and bigger. Walmarts (and their competitor Target and others) sell everything. and they're becoming warehouse like

Cerberus

17:16

Mitch

@Cerberus a very nerve wracking 30 seconds

Cerberus

You see the items on the "space"?

She will put them there after scanning.

Mitch

oh yeah, that helps, one set separated from the next person's

Cerberus

So you can just bag them later, after paying.

Mitch

still, a skill learned by disapproving stares.

Cerberus

17:18

Occasionally, when you have two slow people in a row, the third person's items might get dumped onto the first person's, so they have to make sure they pick their own items from the pile.

But normally it's not a problem.

Mitch

'Sorry, so sorry, out of you way in a sec, sorry, sorry, yes, that's mine, sorry, oh yes, that's mine too'

Cerberus

You don't have to keep up.

@Mitch It happens.

Mitch

@Cerberus mixing of groceries? Augh! disgusting!

like using someone else's toothbrush

Cerberus

The third person's groceries will come after the first person's, so the former will be on top. No random mixing.

There is enough space for three people to be picking up their items from the "after-space" at the same time.

The few times that my stuff was in the same "half" as someone else's, it was never a problem.

An extra person bagging items would take up space.

And could she do it faster than I can?

Tonepoet

@Cerberus One of these days somebody's going to run out with the birthday cake you bought for little Suzie, and the store staff won't want to do anything about it because they'll be too afraid they'll get sued if they stop the guy at the door. =P

Mitch

17:25

@englishstudent do you like italki? do you do voice or typing?

@Cerberus they're bagging your first items, while you're still taking out the last items and the cashier is scanning the middle items

englishstudent

@Tonepoet Gee golly I hear the word "sue" almost every time Americans are around on the internet. I'm partly joking but... you know hah.

@Mitch Yes I do. I'm on Skype with my language exchange partner.

Mitch

wait..which one?

or both?

Cerberus

@Tonepoet Haha.

But why would they get sued?

englishstudent

@Mitch Typing too. The soccer mom also added me on her facebook, so we talk there too sometimes.

But the time difference sucks man.

Cerberus

We don't have a 'claim culture' here: you won't succeed in frivolous suing, and even successful cases won't give you much money.

englishstudent

17:29

When you guys wake up I'm going to sleep.

And vice versa.

Cerberus

@Mitch But I have long finished putting my items on the band by the time the cashier begins to scan my items?

Mitch

@englishstudent that's why i'd prefer typing (FB) except that it's FB

Cerberus

I've been putting my items on the band while queued.

englishstudent

@Mitch Yeah I hate FB in a way. I see what you mean.

Mitch

@englishstudent are you up north or down south?

or in between

@Cerberus sometimes. usually. depends on how much. fine. but still I'm not as fast at bagging. and you have to stop to pay in the middle of bagging.

englishstudent

17:32

@Mitch You guys I mean people on ELU are experts on solving queries, when I ask her a grammar questions she tries her best but still I get confused. So it is fine, I get to practice spoken English but I'm doing all the teaching for now. I'm not that bad at English writing. I just ask a question or two sometimes, like here in chat.

Mitch

@englishstudent ate you able to articulate grammar for what she's learning? (which she can't do for English)

Cerberus

@Mitch If you have a lot of stuff, then you can bag the the rest from the "after-space". Is there a name for that area?

Loo, she has already put her stuff on the band.

Mitch

@Cerberus not really, because there really isn't one

Cerberus

While she was waiting in the queue.

@Mitch There isn't?

englishstudent

@Mitch Haha, no I don't know Hindi grammar either. You are right. I just try my best. She might be complaining about me too to someone lel.

Cerberus

17:34

But there has to be.

englishstudent

Well still it is fun.

Mitch

also, you'd need to move you stuff over from the checkout area all over to a separate bagging area

@englishstudent do you have to pay for it?

Cerberus

@Mitch You can just bag your stuff at the after-space.

I've stopped using quotation marks; the term has now been duly accepted.

Mitch

@Cerberus you've convinced e to order everything online, have it delivered, and then put away in my refrigerator by someone else.

Cerberus

Yay!

Mitch

17:36

and then have someone prepare it, and then cut and lift the fork to my mouth.

englishstudent

@Mitch That's a paid site but there is a feature where you can send a friend request to a language partner and if they are interested you can talk to them and practice wherever you like. So we did that. Many people are learning a language like that there on Italki.

Cerberus

You should just apply to a nursing home.

Mitch

I probably should get someone to chew for me too... puts on to do list

englishstudent

@Mitch I'm doing it for free yes.

Mitch

@Cerberus after-space is what it is.

Cerberus

17:37

Yay again!

Mitch

it's the space after the space. where you put your stuff

englishstudent

@Mitch Their hourly rate are expensive for me. Like $15 per hour etc. Pfft.

Mitch

afterwards

@englishstudent Oh. rethinks plan

Cerberus

Where the cashier puts your stuff.

Mitch

Oh. that space? Hm...

@englishstudent Oh..that's the one for me.

englishstudent

17:39

@Mitch Yeah. Just send friend request to people you find reasonable and someone will definitely show interest. Or you can hire a professional teacher there. Your choice.

Mitch

free and just typing at first.

there's hellotalk

englishstudent

@Mitch So are you thinking about learning French, Spanish, Japanese etc.?

Mitch

there's... not rosetta stone but.. linguamatics?

linguisto?

englishstudent

Yeah free and typing like we are doing here. It is easy and no hassle of paying anyone.

Mitch

@englishstudent YES!!

englishstudent

17:40

Ah!

Go for it.

Mitch

all languages. Esperanto is doomed. SO you have to learn everything instead.

englishstudent

It is a good site.

hah true.

Mitch

the whole political thing is going to led to people not caring about English, cause they're all such dicks about evrything. so I'm not sure what would be a good replacement.

englishstudent

I met an American too. He is a guy and learning Mandarin. He said he could talk to me too if I like. Although he is not interested in exchange, just like talking. But that would be awkward I guess lel.

He seems nice so we are friends there.

Mitch

Chinese language is really simple, but chinese writing is the worst

englishstudent

17:42

Yea I agree.

Mitch

I think spansih is really easy but that could be because it is so close to english already.

but gender. that's totally a waste of time.

yeah I said that

@englishstudent That's what we're doing here.

englishstudent

Yes I never go for a specific gender. I always hope for finding someone who knows their shit. I mean subject matter.

Mitch

doing it with one person is a little too liiting though, because sometimes you need to walk away, but you don't want to let the conversation lag. in a chat room someone is usually there to continue things.

englishstudent

@Mitch I know. I know. I am still friends I said. :)

Mitch

@englishstudent oh, that's also a weird thing. for some people it's a big deal.

@englishstudent oh I wasn't implying anything.

that I am aware of.

I'm mostly unconscious

englishstudent

17:45

:)

Mitch

which might explain a lot

englishstudent

I have met all decent people there. At least until now. I don't know how they view me though. I can be quite vocal sometimes.

I say almost everything on Skype and sometimes they are like "Huh?" then I say "Oh nothing of import"

But typing is fun too. Of course.

Mitch

what do you talk about? movies? food? That's all I can think of being able to talk about in another language

(where I barely can articulate things a 4 year old could)

englishstudent

Oh anything.

Just like we are talking here.

Mitch

politics?

religion?

what's the other one you can't talk about?

oh. sex

I'm embarrassed for myself for all of those.

englishstudent

17:50

But we keep it focused too. Like I say one thing in my language and then say something in English, something like that. We keep it casual. It is not bad.

Mitch

also for my spelling

englishstudent

@Mitch Haha.

Mitch

@englishstudent I am more likely to consider it now

there was a place where you could earn language learning points to do a module in another language if you helped answer or score or edit things in your own language.

cant remember the site

englishstudent

@Mitch It is too early to talk about sex with a soccer mom who is like fifteen years older than me. But I will ask her someday. Just kidding. My gf will kill me.

Mitch

@englishstudent yeah awkward

englishstudent

17:53

haha

Mitch

conversationexchange.com

is another one

englishstudent

Oh nice. Thanks.

I will definitely take a lookie.

Mitch

italki looks better

englishstudent

Yep.

Mitch

babble is free for a start but then all paying

englishstudent

18:01

But if you serious about learning a language there then there are teachers but for me they are expensive. I don't know about you.

Mitch

duolingo obviously for a very elementary very free intro

englishstudent

Also I'm not a newbie to English so free or casual chat works just fine.

Also free is stress free for me.

Mitch

@englishstudent I've taken language in school and then a tutor...my opinion is that it is good to be young and in school to learn stuff, so much easier.

as to price it's hard to compare.

@englishstudent exactly.

englishstudent

You are right.

Mitch

too much worry about getting the worth out of it.

englishstudent

18:02

I'm not in school though. I'm a college level student.

Mitch

psychologically, it could make me work even harder, but at the expense of anxiety

englishstudent

In twenties actually.

So I make it clear from the start I mean if people ask me my agenda. I say something like 'well I don't come across native speakers in real life so I'm giving italki and Skype a shot'. They understand and we get going.

Mitch

nice

LIVEMOCHA

that's the one I was trying to remember.

but I think bought out by rosetta

englishstudent

Yes that too.

There are many you are right.

Just fine any one you like.

Mitch

livemocha had the 'grade answers from learners to earn point that you could use to learn another language'

I think there a was a conversation option like italki

but mostly 'list to this sentence by a language learner and give tips' or 'read this passage by a language learner and fix mistakes.'

I kinda liked that as a way to earn to learn something else.

especiallly if you (or rather I) don't have the vocab to even type-chat about food or movies

@englishstudent did research. livemocha was definitely bought be rosetta. LM was shut down last year (the site doesn't exist) and livemocha.com redirects to rosetta.com. and rosetta is all paying all the time so it looks like rosetta simply bought them to make the competition disappear

englishstudent

18:16

@Mitch Ah.

Well everyone is looking for a native speaker of English. You have it easy on language exchange sites I'm sure.

Almost everyone I mean.

Most people are into French, Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Cantonese etc. I notice.

@Mitch It was very nice talking to you. See you around. Bye.

Mitch

18:33

later

Tonepoet

19:44

@sumelic Pinging you takes valuable character space in those restrictive 500 character comments, and I'm not sure if it's automatically done for community wiki posts, so i figured I'd mention I commented under one of your answers here.

Just because I can. XP

Turbo

Hello everyone :)

I have a quick question

I don't know what word I heard after "This war is an...":

Is it "ocre"? I'm not sure?

"Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" - Series Trailer

►

M.A.R.

@Turbo I'm not in a situation to play it out loud, but wouldn't it be ''this war isn't over''?

Turbo

20:00

@M.A.R. Thank you, that's right! I was searching through the scripts for "This war is an" and I was wondering why I wasn't getting any results. :)

That said, Patrick Avery should be a little more finesse in his pronunciation :)

M.A.R.

@Turbo Yay! That proves I am omniscient in my knowledge of movie cliches.

Turbo

@M.A.R. As a proud Trekkie, I would boldly state that such common cliches don't exist in Star Trek. But I guess I've been proven wrong ;)

M.A.R.

No movie is totally cliche-free.

We just don't see it when we're a fan

Turbo

Any DS9 fans on here...by any chance? :P

sumelic

@Tonepoet Ah, hi! I did get pinged by the comment. Did you see my response? Thanks for giving some feedback.

Tonepoet

20:07

@sumelic Ah yes, I did see the response. I was trying to think of a good reply. You're right in that that portion of the help center is unchanged. Apparently I can't remember what's actually in it for the life of me, even when I've recently read it! XD

M.A.R.

@Tonepoet Can I see the context?

Tonepoet

I'm glad that you mentioned personal experiences as a valid form of corroboration, but when you suggest answers are not to just be based upon personal prejudices, how do you expect to address posts by qualified experts who elect to not cite external resources in some of their answers, like Prof. John Lawler? I'm concerned about requiring quotes from links. It's often a best practice, but space and copyright may dictate that otherwise is wiser. Also, did you consider the Why and how are some questions deleted page of the help center? — Tonepoet 26 mins ago

@Tonepoet: John Lawler's answers are not based on prejudice, but on his expertise. I am not sure what you mean about requiring quotes from links. What I said is that if people include a quote, they should link to the source. I don't think I said anywhere that quotes are required--they aren't. I said " name the sources of any quotations you use" and all of the "Provide context for links" section is unchanged (do you think it should be changed to remove the line "Always quote the most relevant part of an important link, in case the target site is unreachable or goes permanently offline"?). — sumelic 21 mins ago

M.A.R.

Ahh, when I write stuff like that I always haunt myself repeatedly in the middle by the fact that people don't read

And the ones that read write decent answers anyway

There's a very limited area mods of every site can change, and it's prolly in /on-topic, I think

Tonepoet

Andrew Leach indicated that the page in question can be changed.

M.A.R.

It's possible to have the page edited; moderators can't do it. I would suggest that answers to this question contain ideas for how to improve the page, along the lines of "Add a section X" including the new text and where it should go (and commentary on why it's needed); and maybe "Remove section Y" with commentary on why that one is counter-productive. Moderators can then collate the suggestions for final approval before asking staff to make the changes. — Andrew Leach ♦ Mar 7 at 9:00

Tonepoet

20:12

Right.

M.A.R.

If mods don't change it devs don't have time for smaller sites than SO.

Tonepoet

Hmm, I see.

M.A.R.

So there. YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

Tonepoet

Okay, I admit, I was mistaken again. XP

Andrew Leach

@M.A.R. They do. They changed our "How to ask" sidebar on the Ask Question page.

And if they don't have time, then we just badger them till they do.

M.A.R.

20:21

@AndrewLeach it's not that they don't care, it's that we're naturally not the priority

@AndrewLeach 6–8 years, that is

Andrew Leach

I beg to differ, that's all. They do recognise that quality of new users' posts on this site (what with the world and his wife and his dog knowing English) can be erratic.

They find they have the time when it takes longer to deal with the badgering than it does to do the stuff.

But they certainly won't do anything if the community doesn't flag a need.

M.A.R.

@AndrewLeach Well, in a crap-posting race, SO crap-posters win by a large margin, so fixing anything would start from there

Andrew Leach

That's no reason not to consider changing the Help pages. In fact, it seems to me that the entire Help section has built up by accretion and is now not just badly signposted but badly organised. Like spaghetti coding, sometimes you have just have to throw it out and start again. And if there is the odd bit which is still useful, salvage that for the new system.

M.A.R.

20:41

@AndrewLeach Well, SE staff's 2016 trend was over-analyzing something not to make a mistake when they pushed a change, and now they're tired of doing that and like to get some stuff done, so you might get lucky

Mitch

@M.A.R.twitter.com/fakhrulshawal/status/840335256972603393

3DPrinter for medical utensils in space. but now they need a medication 'replicator'.

get crackin'

M.A.R.

@Mitch You need to add a space or I won't get pinged

Tonepoet

@Mitch Fair use is a highly discretionary doctrine. It's hard to pin down its exact limits, until somebody's sued. That's the main reason I mentioned that. As for page space, that depends upon how long the answer is. There's usually enough space to go around, but I can imagine cases where there isn't.

Tonepoet

21:29

This is probably a silly question and I really don't have a reason to ask, but should a single recording of a voice actor be counted as one use, or should it be counted as a separate use for each each time that recording is used in an episode of a television show?

I was just looking at should it be folk or folks and was thinking about Porky Pig's catchphrase "That's All Folks".

I'm willing to bet Homer Jay Simpson's "D'oh!" has frequently reused recordings too.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…