English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user227867

12:27 AM

@Tonepoet Are you a poet?

user227867

This mod election ends on my birthday. Therefore, I get to choose the successful candidates.

user227867

5

Q: Why is Anxiety Sometimes Pronounced With a 'g' sound?

This may be a UK only thing perhaps, but when I and anyone I know pronounce it it sounds like it should be spelled as "angxiety". It's something I've never thought about or questioned before. You simply pronounce words how everyone else does. Where did the 'g' sound in the word come from?

pronunciation

user227867

I just checked the dictionary.

user227867

It's always pronounced with the ng, but I always pronounce it with n. So I have been speaking wrongly my whole life.

user227867

Then again, why must we follow the dictionary pronunciation?

Tonepoet

4:17 AM

@Jasper My name is a complete misnomer.

Also, there's nothing forcing us to do it, but the value of a standardized language that can convey concepts as reliably as possible is immeasurable. It could be argued that stricter pronunciations also allows us to have more words

This is Samuel Johnson's Lament, that is what he did about it and we are much better off now than we would have been otherwise as a result.

Tonepoet

5:08 AM

@Lawrence I suppose what I'm saying is I see no good reason why the comment must be a comment instead of part of an answer, if you are providing an answer.

You might leave a separate comment and answer so everything is sorted where it belongs, although that's a little less convenient.

M-J

5:38 AM

@Mitch Thanks Mitch

@tchrist Thanks tchrist.

caub

5:56 AM

Thanks Obama

Lawrence

@Tonepoet Normally, comment and close is used for questions that don't suit the Stack Exchange answer format. For other questions, then yes, well-supported answers should be presented as answers, but pretty much everything else should go into answers - including conjecture. Partial answers are a grey area. They can be posted as answers if there is a culture of adding to and improving them. ELU culture tends to prefer answers in full, so parties answers go into comments as well here.

Tonepoet

If the type of answer given in the comment doesn't suit the S.E. format, then presumably we don't want those types of answers on Stack Exchange. The reason we close the question to discourage that sort of answer in the first place and the reason we have the V.L.Q.A. flag is to remove them.

Whether it's in a comment or in an answer doesn't seem to make a difference.

Except for sorting purposes...

Now a nonanswer should be posted as a comment, if it's related to the subject, but that's different.

sumelic

6:28 AM

@Tonepoet I think the situation with the best reason for "answering in the comments" is with questions that are off-topic as general reference, and can be answered simply by linking to a dictionary.

Tonepoet

Why is it better?

sumelic

For reasons that I outline in my answer to the following question ("Downvoting an answer because the question was bad?") I don't think it's useful to post this kind of information as an answer, even when people take the trouble to block-quote the relevant portion of the dictionary entry.

Answers are more permanent than comments: if they are upvoted or accepted, they make it significantly harder for a post to be automatically deleted after it is closed.

Tonepoet

@sumelic Ah, so that's it.

That's a good reason I suppose. That way if it's a gen. ref. question, maybe it can be asked by somebody else who will provide the research.

sumelic

@Tonepoet Well, the idea of a gen. ref. question is one that is fully answered by doing basic research (looking up a word in a dictionary or a thesaurus). We don't really want people asking these kinds of questions at all on this site. The point of providing research when you ask the question is that it's a way to say "my question is not answered by these basic resources." In that case, the question was never gen. ref. in the first place.

Tonepoet

It'd be better to give 'em the cold shoulder in that case if you want to achieve that effect, was my line of thinking.

Getting an answer is a bit of a reward, regardless of where it's placed, esp. since to paraphrase Drew Carey I got an answer and the points don't mean anything!

sumelic

6:38 AM

@Tonepoet Maybe so. It's true that we don't want people to get into the habit of posting gen-ref questions so that they get answers in the comments. However, I don't think many people actually do end up doing that. If the question is bad, it will probably get downvotes, and a user who consistently asks bad questions will probably end up question-banned.

There are a few advantages I see to posting a comment with a link to a general reference: if the question is not actually answered by the dictionary entry, it may prompt the OP to edit the post to explain why. I.e. it may be a non gen. ref. question that just looks like a gen. ref. Another reason is that it shows to other possible close-voters or down-voters that the question is potentially general reference.

Tonepoet

@sumelic That's another interesting point, although it doesn't solve the first impressions upon other users, esp. people who only ever have one or two questions to ask. We get more of those than regular users, I think.

Hmm, okay, except for that last bit, I think I understand now. Thanks for the explanation.

sumelic

@Tonepoet That's true. But I don't think you can do much to discourage those kind of users from asking questions. They probably don't know whether or not their post will get the cold shoulder.

Tonepoet

I was thinking we could at least avoid affirming the thought that a bad question will get an answer.

user227867

8:04 AM

@Tonepoet Indeed, the points on SE mean nothing.

user227867

I am going to take a nap.

Tonepoet

Sweet dreams @Jasper.

TIPS

10:10 AM

Uh, why did Brock withdraw his nomination?

He was a candidate with good potential.

caub

10:34 AM

hmm actually "no problem" isn't correct, it should be "no problems" ?

TIPS

Nope, why?

caub

because 0 is plural

TIPS

0

Q: "No problem" or "no problems"?

I study English and I ran into a problem. What version is correct: "no problem" or "no problems"? P.S. Is "ran into a problem" correct? P.P.S. Is version correct word for this situation? May be "variant"?

phrases

caub

good, thanks

user227867

10:51 AM

Hello @matt, have a good weekend.

caub

11:14 AM

atlasobscura.com/places/…, basically what will happen with global warming

Lawrence

@Tonepoet There is another aspect to this issue. The people who post answers (regardless of where) do so - at least in part - because that's what we enjoy. Otherwise, why visit ELU in the first place when there is nothing to ask? When faced with questions that are technically off-topic but are readily answered, the inclination would be to answer them anyway.

Regulars who answer many questions well would typically also have high rep; if they tire of these questions, they can simply vote to close, or even vote to delete. ELU survives on the generosity of such users, so I think it would be biting the hand that feeds to discourage them from comment and closing.

TIPS

@Lawrence Wait, who's discouraging who?

Lawrence

@TIPS The discussion is somewhat philosophical at present, so there's no real who to point to, but the issue is whether answers in comments should be posted at all if the question is of low quality.

TIPS

Well, hmm, I'm meh about this, since

1. even though some people are annoyed by it and justify their annoyance by saying that "feeding them the answer means they'll come back and dump their dump again", I've seen no evidence to support that.

And 2. there are far more things with the potential to harm the site, and this is hurting no one.

So unless someone wants to ruin their and someone else's experience on ELU, this isn't something to care about, much less get frustrated about.

caub

TIPS

11:25 AM

@caub How meta.

caub

:))

TIPS

Reminds me of ELU and meta.ELU

Also the meta is the brown one.

Matt E. Эллен

@Jasper thanks! you too

caub

hello Math.E

<3

Lawrence

@caub That reminds me of a story about automatic face recognition. Someone wore a shirt with a picture of someone else's face, and the system cropped to the shirt.

TIPS

11:28 AM

I'd call him Math from now on too. :)

caub

@Lawrence hehe, normal

Lawrence

@caub I think it was for his identity card.

tchrist

12:05 PM

I haven't seen the bat signal this low since those heady days of hat dashes.

TIPS

@tchrist So @Kit is Batman and you're . . . hmm . . . Gordon?

Or wait, Matt is Batman.

Kit is batwoman.

Why do all DC heroes have a feminine analog?

Couldn't some heroes just be male, and some just female?

tchrist

Wonder Man

Wonder Man (Simon Williams) is a fictional superhero appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. Created by writer Stan Lee and artists Don Heck and Jack Kirby, he first appeared in The Avengers #9 (Oct. 1964). In 2012, Wonder Man was ranked 38th in IGN's list of "The Top 50 Avengers". == Publication history == Wonder Man debuted in the superhero-team title The Avengers #9 (cover-dated Oct. 1964), but appeared to die in that issue. Four years later, Avengers #58 (Nov. 1968) revisited the events of #9, explaining that the Avengers had electronically saved Wonder Man's mind in a...

TIPS

Top 50 avengers.

Top frigging 50 avengers.

I guess every American is an avenger these days.

tchrist

I've lost count.

TIPS

Top 50 was only 2012.

i.imgur.com/uJx1sXB.mp4

tchrist

12:16 PM

Wonder Man being of course the male virgin of Wonder Woman.

TIPS

Yeah, it's disgusting

tchrist

However, he's a cross-comicker, since he's Marvel and she's DC.

Lawrence

TIL

Commonplace book

Commonplace books (or commonplaces) are a way to compile knowledge, usually by writing information into books. Such books are essentially scrapbooks filled with items of every kind: recipes, quotes, letters, poems, tables of weights and measures, proverbs, prayers, legal formulas. Commonplaces are used by readers, writers, students, and scholars as an aid for remembering useful concepts or facts they have learned. Each commonplace book is unique to its creator's particular interests. They became significant in Early Modern Europe. "Commonplace" is a translation of the Latin term locus communis...

@tchrist Auto-correct got you, too?

tchrist

@Lawrence Nope. Never used it, never will.

Lawrence

Oh. Well, then ... carry on. :)

tchrist

12:26 PM

Now and then I do accidentally a word out, or even exchequer one for another, but ever and anon do I introduce wily deviants of my own initiative.

Lawrence

whistles nonchalantly, tiptoes away

NVZ

What's up, doc?

Lawrence

A wabbit!

NVZ

I thought I saw a .. cat. :)

So we're stuck with 10 nominations, eh?

Kit Z. Fox

I am not Batwoman nor Batgirl.

NVZ

12:37 PM

You're a symbol.

An idea.

You're more.

You're hope.

You're Kit.Z.Fox :)

Lawrence

@Tonepoet In all fairness, here's one for your case (see the last line of the following question).

english.stackexchange.com/review/close/195052

terdon

Oh hey, elections! I miss all the good stuff when I'm on holiday!

Matt E. Эллен

12:56 PM

not completely!

you can still nominate yourself, if you want :D

terdon

@MattE.Эллен I think I'll pass. I already have as many diamonds as hands :P

Matt E. Эллен

:D

there's room on your forehead, surely?

terdon

Still, I don't think I've ever seen an election where my choices were so simple and obvious before.

@MattE.Эллен Nah, my third eye's in the way.

Matt E. Эллен

tell me about it!

I was a bit worried the first day or so, but now...

terdon

I'm quite please with the turn out, really. Especially if my obvious choices make it. Ideally all three of them, but I'd settle for the 2 that are actually possible.

There are 2 slots, right?

Matt E. Эллен

1:01 PM

yes

terdon

Cool

Matt E. Эллен

I don't think anyone else will nominate themselves before Monday, so I think we'll skip the primary and go straight to the election, which is good. the sooner this is done the better :D

terdon

Yeah. Dragging elections out tends to bring out the worst in everyone.

I'm surprised that Rathony hasn't come forward yet though.

Matt E. Эллен

Rathony has said at least once they're not going to nominate

or that they don't want to be a mod

people change their minds, though

terdon

@MattE.Эллен I know. I just didn't actually believe it given how much Rathony seems to object to the current mods' actions.

Matt E. Эллен

1:09 PM

maybe that's why Rathony doesn't want to be a mod? I'd have doubts about joining a group I disagree with, too!

terdon

Fair enough.

Then again, I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member.

user227867

I see Rathony is suspended again, lol.

user227867

The next one to be suspended is me, lol.

user227867

Because I keep talking about how people are suspended, lol.

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon also, the suspension mean Rathony can't nominate themselves

terdon

1:17 PM

Yes, I just saw the suspension now.

Matt E. Эллен

I had forgotten about it.

user111444

Hello

Lawrence

1:31 PM

@user111444 Hello, and welcome.

Lawrence

1:57 PM

I used to wonder why Lit Crit was off-topic.

If you think this is too hard on literary criticism, read the Wikipedia article on deconstruction.

Cerberus

@Lawrence Haha nice.

There is some truth in that.

But also some untruth.

Mitch

2:15 PM

@Cerberus I know! The linguist would immediately laugh in your face.

Wait...who were the individuals who created Klingon?

terdon

@Mitch Joseph Klin and Godfrey Gon, of course.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен maybe the primary phase would be a good week to draft answers to the questions. And have discussions about them. Then another week to vote.

@terdon Klin Farkas and Gon Zoltan!! The crypto Hungarians!

Also Ringo

He's in everything

terdon

It's always Ringo. . .

Færd

In my very limited participation on the main site, I always thought of myself as a viscous downvoter. But now that I checked, I have 169 upvotes and only 9 downvotes. I literally cannot believe it.

Lawrence

@Færd If I may be permitted some tongue-in-cheek word-play on what I assume is a typo, resistance to applying down-votes is expected for a viscous down-voter like yourself. It might be different for a vicious down-voter, though.

Færd

2:28 PM

Haha! Thanks!

Lawrence

My pleasure :) .

Cerberus

@Mitch I rather meant that dismissing theories like deconstructivism altogether is...typical.

There is nonsense in postmodernist philosophy, but that doesn't mean it's all nonsense.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch you should nominate yourself then :D

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен that's a bizarre inference

Also how dare you.

Matt E. Эллен

I choose you, Mitchachu

Mitch

2:42 PM

I am cute

In an ugly sort of way

Like baby possums

Matt E. Эллен

and you spend most of you time trapped in an empty sphere, waiting to be summoned to fight

Mitch

No doxxing in chat

@MattE.Эллен but contrary to what I just said and @KitZ.Fox, three weeks does feel like too a long time.

Outside of a chat anything goes

Cerberus

3:05 PM

Hah.

Tonepoet

4:44 PM

@Lawrence I know that. The entirety of my contributions to the site are answers. I wasn't suggesting not to answer at all though though. I was just wondering why it had to be comment and close. Sumelic explained some decent differences between the comments and the answers I hadn't considered, so I think I understand now though.

Mitch

5:13 PM

@anongoodnurse But I do take great pride in how humble I am.

anongoodnurse

@Mitch In my prayers (said on street corners so everyone can see how pious I am as well), I thank God for making me such a humble person as to be an example to all around me.

Tonepoet

5:43 PM

@Lawrence I don't have the rep. to view closevotes but I made a comment there, which hopefully isn't out of line.

With that having been said though, I'm not sure how somebody is supposed to determine just how advanced a question is, without advanced linguistic knowledge.

user227867

6:51 PM

@tonepoet Since you recommended me The Luminous Mind, here is my recommendation: youtube.com/watch?v=V5glFAL3V6w

user227867

My speaking voice is a little like a frog, so don't laugh.

Færd

Do you lose a bet of five dollars, or lose five dollars in a bet, or lose five dollars at a bet, or probably lose a five dollar bet?

Tonepoet

@Jasper I probably wouldn't do that. Those are some interesting recommendations. I remember seeing a question on the Buddhism Stack Exchange asking for the equivalent of the "Buddhist Bible" earlier.

user227867

@Tonepoet Yes, I think it can be equated to the bible.

Tonepoet

However it seems that the video rendering may have had some problems. The first part of the video is repeated and the videois a little desynchronized with the audio.

caub

7:03 PM

math.ucr.edu/home/baez/roots

user227867

@Tonepoet I get that sometimes. I think you should avoid watching it in full screen mode.

Tonepoet

Ah, I see, I just thought I'd mention it. I've usually read more derivative works such as The Sutra of Huineng, so knowing good books to read with the direct words of Buddha Sakyamuni himself may be interesting.

user227867

The thing is that the authenticity of all texts can be doubted, but these come as close as we can get, at least in the intended meaning.

user227867

@caub What about it?

Tonepoet

Hmm, yes. Some more than others though. I vaguely recollect that the oldest book worldwide, according to the British National Library, is The Diamond Sutra. I wonder if anybody translated their copy.

user227867

7:14 PM

I don't really subscribe to Mahayana now, because I feel that it may be a perversion of the original teachings by a group of people. It seems that the authorship of the Mahayana texts is unknown.

user227867

@Tonepoet Are you a native speaker of English?

Tonepoet

English is my only language.

My various hobbies have me vaguely interested in learning Japanese, although I doubt I will.

DEAD

Dramatic

I've got four languages and I dunno what to do with either of them.

user111444

Hello

user227867

@Tonepoet I hope to master German, French, Italian, and Spanish one day.

user111444

7:24 PM

@Jasper I can help you in Italian if you need it.

DEAD

@user111444 Yello

user111444

Hello

How are you?

user227867

@user111444 Hi, are you new to SE?

DEAD

Awesomer than usual, thanks.

You?

user111444

So and so

@DEAD I'm ok :)

I use jasper since 2 weeks I think or something like that

DEAD

7:25 PM

You use what? Haha

user111444

Ops

DEAD

Well, take a look around.

user111444

I wrong

DEAD

Tell me if anything looks weird. Of course, except the regular chatters.

user111444

I use Stack Exchange since 2 weeks or something like that. @Jasper

user227867

7:27 PM

@user111444 I see. I am also a new user. I joined 2 days ago. =)

user111444

Ok :)

I saw* I think it's better.

Tonepoet

@Jasper Perversion may be a slightly strong word. Authenticity is secondary to results and perhaps a master may have the tact to alter the teachings in a way that is better suited towards the particular needs of his pupils. However, that is assuming that the person making the alterations is indeed a master, rather than a mere pretender.

DEAD

BTW, @user did you know that there's a English Language Learners site, a sister of this one?

user111444

I know, why?

DEAD

Just saying.

user111444

7:28 PM

Ok :)

DEAD

Some people need ELL but don't know about it.

user227867

@Tonepoet Yes, I am just afraid of the last part you said.

user111444

What do you think about my English? Is it good?

DEAD

Yes, it's good.

I'm not in a place to judge that though. :)

user111444

Ok, I need to learn my listening english skills.

Ok Dead

user227867

7:29 PM

@user111444 'I see' is an idiomatic expression. =)

user111444

Ah ok, sorry :)

@Jasper Is English your native language?

user227867

I think DEAD is a very offensive username, @dead. =)

user227867

@user111444 I think it is.

user111444

OK

Where are you from? @Jasper

DEAD

@Jasper Well, not if it stands for "diethyl azodicarboxylate".

user227867

7:31 PM

@user111444 Ah, I need to keep it a secret, for secret reasons.

DEAD

Just enjoy the pun

user111444

@Jasper Ok

user227867

@user111444 You must be from Italy.

user111444

Yes.

I wrote it in a lot of comment/question.

user227867

I made some videos of Italian songs here youtube.com/channel/UCnKEDPuP0in8tzAXsq15Gfw =)

user227867

7:34 PM

I really like spaghetti carbonara.

user111444

Aahhahah thanks :)

What languages do you speak?

user227867

I speak English and also some Mandarin Chinese.

user111444

Oh! oK

Ok

I speak Italian, English and a few of French.

user227867

I watched La Vita E Bella and Stanno Tutti Bene.

user111444

ok

Can you suggest me any films English comic and funny?

user227867

7:39 PM

Funny? Let me think...

user111444

(I'm going to take a shower, Bye)

user227867

OK.

user227867

@user111444 I suggest this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting..._(film)

Tonepoet

@Jasper Hmm, yes, that is a problem. I think the best way to go about it though, is to take in as much information as possible, while examining it with a critical eye. Buddhism is very much a religion of cultivating the mind, so we need to take in as much information as we possibly can. Admittedly there might be some hypocrisy in that statement though, since I've been a slacker lately.

user227867

8:03 PM

@Tonepoet I have never studied anything seriously after high school.

Tonepoet

@Jasper Don't sell yourself short, unless you haven't read those books ever since high school. They're thick!

user227867

May I ask what your specialty subject is? In college or whatever?

Tonepoet

What is this call-age you speak of? Is it the successor to the space-age?

user227867

I see. You must be under-age then, lol.

Tonepoet

That'd actually make quite a bit of sense come to think of it, as the early internet connections were made over telephone lines.

user227867

8:09 PM

@Tonepoet In case that was not a joke, college means university. =)

Tonepoet

The state of being universal is something that only a supernatural being could possibly claim to be. =P

user227867

Hmm, I am looking at your ELU profile. I see you have 76 answers.

user227867

You are very secretive...

user227867

9

A: Framing a question whose answer is an ordinal number

Preface Given how important the ordinal birth number would be for birthrights, especially where the concept of primogeniture was involved, I thought that would be a good place to start research. Unfortunately my cursory glance at The Bill of Rights of 1688 and The Act of Succession 1700 did no...

user227867

Hmm, you wrote a very long answer there.

Tonepoet

8:15 PM

It's mostly due to my writing style. I do try not to omit words most people would presume to be understood. A complete sentence contains a complete thought.

user227867

I try to make my answers as short as possible.

user227867

Anyway, I only have one answer, lol.

Tonepoet

As long as it contains the necessary components of an answer there is merit to that. Anyway, I need to edit that answer to include Noah Webster's definition of Rank eventually. I couldn't find it before because most searchable websites only have incomplete coverage of his American Dictionary of the English Language.

user227867

The paper dictionary I own is OALD.

user227867

The American version of that is OAAD, but most Americans don't use Oxford dictionaries.

Tonepoet

8:21 PM

I have plenty. O.A.L.D's. good. I think out of all the modern dictionaries I'd trust The American Heritage Dictionary the most though, since they have a usage panel comprised of skilled writers.

user227867

If I had to buy a big dictionary, I would buy Collins English Dictionary, the full one.

user227867

One thing I don't like about the Oxford dictionaries is that many of them don't contain IPA for every word.

Tonepoet

I am lacking a dictionary for the current decade.

Well, I think I have one copy of O.A.L.D. but it's a paperback so I don't count it. =P

I mostly scrounge around thrift stores to build my collection. We get plenty of books in my area. I bought Merriam-Webster's New International Dictionary Second Edition for about $5, and the Compact Edition of the O.E.D. ('71 printing) for $3.

user227867

Do you buy secondhand books?

Tonepoet

Yeah, they're much cheaper.

Especially when I buy from thrift stores, rather than book stores.

user227867

8:28 PM

I submitted an edit an hour ago but it is not approved. The site is SLOW today.

Tonepoet

Speaking of edits...

user227867

Yes?

user111444

8:44 PM

Hello

Tonepoet

I just submitted one.

Tonepoet

9:41 PM

I want to say that something which is both crucial and hidden is a cryptocross. =P

user227867

11:30 PM

Anyone home?

user227867

I think @Tonepoet is a very interesting guy. We need to talk more. =)

Tonepoet

Thank you for the compliment.

user227867

I made a beautiful sentence.

user227867

The banana in the papaya in the iguana in the zenana is in Panama.

user227867

Tony listens to his Sony while riding on his bony pony.

user227867

11:37 PM

I am having a terrible headache.

user227867

Nothing interesting on the site at the moment.

Lawrence

@Tonepoet Nicely done.

user227867

Hello @Lawrence. It must be a lovely Sunday morning there. =)

Lawrence

Hi @Jasper, still digging, I see :) .

It is a lovely day, though. :)

user227867

It is also Sunday morning here. =)

Lawrence

11:43 PM

So I gathered.

user227867

Still digging, I see =)

Tonepoet

Ugh, so many broken links to replace here...

Lawrence

@Jasper Nah, I got that from watching your video.

Tonepoet

It's like, 35~ links in this one answer that lead to a broken website.

user227867

@Lawrence Then you must be extremely observant. =)

Lawrence

11:45 PM

@Tonepoet Are you talking about an answer on ELU?

Tonepoet

Yeah, the one Jasper linked earlier.

Mine specifically.

Lawrence

I'm still catching up on the transcript.

user227867

@Lawrence I made no attempt to hide it. =)

Tonepoet

All of my early answers have links to the University of Chicago's A.R.T.F.L. project's Webster's dictionary, which is gone now. Thankfully I provided alternate links to the resources so people might be able to check on their own but it's less convenient.

user227867

UC has a good math dept

user227867

11:55 PM

Although I pronounce ingcorporate, I pronounce anxiety and not angxiety

Lawrence

@Tonepoet I think the idea is that each question-poster may pick whichever SE site they think is appropriate for their question, but whichever site the question ends up in, its community is allowed to disagree. Such exchanges ought to be civil, though.

user227867

Time for me to change to angxiety

Lawrence

@Færd Hopefully, none of the above, but they are all grammatical, with some nuanced differences.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…