English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

12:35 AM

@MετάEd "Whenever people talk to me about the weather, I always feel quite certain that they mean something else"

So is it warming up there?

And I mean it to sting.

@MετάEd for the life of me I can't find an Irish anything that ends with Sligo.

SmokeDetector

3:05 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive answer detected: What do you call a person who talks about nothing but himself? by TYCA on english.stackexchange.com …

SmokeDetector

8:58 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body: change of company name from food to some other name by Kerry on english.stackexchange.com …

Terah

9:13 AM

Hi all, just to revisit an older question:

What is the best way to proceed to get an 'On Hold' removed from a question?

Matt E. Эллен

post on meta explaining why your improvements mean that the question should be reöpened

Matt E. Эллен

9:49 AM

IͶΔ

10:01 AM

@Terah Edit the question into something acceptable.

@MattE.Эллен But pedants are uncountable.

2

Matt E. Эллен

@IͶΔ inconsolable, perhaps...

Terah

10:27 AM

Hi Ina, thanks - thing is, the OP did change the question into something acceptable

but I don't see a way how to remove the On Hold

IͶΔ

Then meta.

Terah

I flagged the question for Moderator intervention, since it was a moderated that put it on hold, but so far, no response

Finally have a user that complies to all we ask for, we thank her by having to wait 3 days to get the question approved :P

I'll post it as well on meta then

Terah

1:17 PM

Well.. that was all the drama for today I hope.

curiousdannii

1:57 PM

@Terah Hardly, it's still a rather bad, and entirely useless, question

Terah

@curiousdannii You mean the 'Save my life' question?

Because if you mean the question I asked to be put 'off hold', I disagree, if only because you are passing judgement on how useful or useless a question is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:14 PM

hm, chat welcomed me to chat today with a reminder to be nice.

tchrist

Maybe Santa's Christmas letters were delayed.

curiousdannii

@Terah Stack Exchange is all about passing judgement on the usefulness of questions and answers, that's the main criteria for voting

Now usefulness doesn't determine on-topicness, but in this case it would be a mistake to start giving suggestions when we don't know if any of our answers will be useful to the OP

Terah

I think we have the Help Center for that, first and foremost. How those guidelines can be interpreted might be up for discussion, but a question may not be useful to you, yet be a good fit for ELU. The answer may not be useful to you, yet, that is not to say that it is a good answer.

Agree - that's be just throwing things at it and hoping something will stick. That's a recipe for chaos.

However, perhaps more so on ELL than on ELU, these are the questions that will help people learn more about the language beyond just the answer. It'll help them develop that intuitiveness that many find helpful in their every day usage of the language.

That said - a question should not be closed or left unopened because someone finds it 'a useless' question.

Mitch

4:45 PM

When he was taken in and always before hand, he curled up into a small ball as a "defense". My point in the sentence is to compare his reaction to danger before and after his major change. Being taken in by the man and woman gives a time reference in the novel in which he begins to change. @Terah — Claire L. yesterday

I'm getting the feeling that she is actually writing this sentence herself and wants us to judge it. Do you think that is the case?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm pretty sure that only select people got that message.

1

A: Skipping 's' ending in 3rd person

I'd ground my kids for talking that way. No, it's not proper English. Yes, it is a part of hip-hop society and so is wearing your pants half down the crack of your butt. It's a rebellious sounding way to talk. Please don't talk like that in a job interview or anytime you want to impress someo...

I really want to jump on this guy for being judgmental. But I don't feel comfortable doing that since I gave an alternate answer.

@IͶΔ Counts are unimpeachable.

IͶΔ

@Mitch Peaches are unmountable.

s.harp

is "to each X we make correspond the associated Y" a correct thing to say?

Mitch

@IͶΔ Mounties are uncompromising

@s.harp To fix the words you have, it should be "to each X we make a correspondence with the associated Y".

But you may want to reword altogether "X corresponds with Y" or "We give a function from X to Y" or "We make a correspondence between X and its associated Y" (the wording could depend on what X and Y are.

s.harp

5:04 PM

Thanks, the formulation is something I found in a book translated from french and I was wondering if is correct. It sounded extremely awkward.

IͶΔ

@Mitch Compromises are unenchanting

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch yes

@Mitch Are you saying I needed telling-off by the chat system?

Could be.

IͶΔ

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 no

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@IͶΔ you're so argumentative. That'll be five quid.

IͶΔ

1 min ago, by IͶΔ

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 no

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:17 PM

Look I'm not going to argue with you unless you pay the five quid.

user116848

So I just popped in to see if my account was still breathing or not. Apparently it is.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 probably. you especially. Machines know when you need a mid-course correction.

I got one too.

@Arrowfar electrons are forever. also database entries and web servers.

Also, it's only been like a week,

Nothing's changed.

sigh

Oh! but we get notices to be nice when you post to chat. That's something new.

user116848

Yeah I saw that.

user116848

Yeah so yesterday they told me to write "delete me" in my profile, I did. That's why I was curious about my account :-)

Mitch

Oh also, since you've been gone, we've all switched to speaking our own native language, but the software does autotranslation. That'll explain alot of subtle differences

@Arrowfar Oh. Maybe that takes some time for a sysadmin or something to get around to doing it. at any moment you could flicker out like an old lightbulb.

sigh

IͶΔ

5:25 PM

Throws five quid at where @Mr. lives

user116848

heh

user116848

:)

IͶΔ

Hey at least I tried!

Mitch

or an old fluorescent light that continues to flicker for months, giving terrible light but still surviving.

sigh, again

IͶΔ

sigh 'cause it's trending right now

user116848

5:27 PM

@Mitch Well (pretty much) all the cool kids left anyway. So I was just packing by bags as well ;-)

Mitch

Sigh is the new on fleek

@Arrowfar yeah. I wonder what the cool kids are doing these days now that they're not here. Reg is still closing questions with his mod hammer.

user116848

Yep. True.

IͶΔ

The cool kids can choose to come back.

They'll only do it if it's gonna be fun for them.

'cause that's how it is.

You're here right now 'cause it's fun being here.

If it isn't, well.

Mitch

sigh

IͶΔ

SIGH

Delta Escher

5:35 PM

remember kids!

user116848

@Mitch Don't sigh Mitchy you are making me depressed!

Delta Escher

It's writing day at Overlook!

IͶΔ

@Mitch Mine's bigger. ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

user116848

;-)

Mitch

@IͶΔ So aggresively passive

IͶΔ

5:35 PM

@DeltaEscher Yay I guess

Mitch

@DeltaEscher link!

Delta Escher

Arrow is usually there and so is @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 and @MattE.Эллен

Mitch

@IͶΔ rage table throw

Delta Escher

@Mitch Room 168

IͶΔ

@Mitch It's called a table flip. Sigh

Mitch

5:37 PM

That's the poorest link ever. You can't give a worse link. You also can't give a better link because there's no link there at all to compare.

IͶΔ

It might also be the richest link ever.

Delta Escher

The Overlook Hotel

General discussion for writing.stackexchange.com. Writing exer...

IͶΔ

Oh damn it's Tuesday already?

(/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻

Delta Escher

Today's topic (though it is also in the Hotel): 'Horror, but not really'

IͶΔ

Sheesh I'd never know time passing this fast would occur to me this soon in my life.

Delta Escher

5:41 PM

My avatar refuses to change for some reason

Is it still Canada?

IͶΔ

Have you changed it on the main site?

Delta Escher

Yes

I even refreshed it from my main account

IͶΔ

shouldiblamecaching.com

Delta Escher

Now did it work?

I did it again

oops

i did it again

brb lunch

Mitch

@IͶΔ I'm only just getting used to this being the 21st century.

Which brings up the question, why didn't '21st Century Fox' change their name to keep ahead of the game?

@DeltaEscher It's always Canada. in my mind.

sigh

so c c c cold

IͶΔ

5:51 PM

I like cold.

It's the best excuse to slack off.

Mitch

@IͶΔ I can't talk with you.

Cold is just wrong.

IͶΔ

@Mitch Yeah, SE chat doesn't support voice messages.

Mitch

hm... I'd rather not. Too in your face.

MετάEd

@Mitch Three in your face.

Mitch

@MετάEd Pi in yours

IͶΔ

5:59 PM

@Mitch Pie in yours

Mitch

@IͶΔ I'm waiting til after lunch. Thanks, I'll hold on to it for later.

MετάEd

@Mitch Six sigma in your face.

Mitch

Eww...

@KitZ.Fox Wow. I thought people only said stuff like that on TV. Oh, or Jez.

Kit Z. Fox

I'm not paying attention. I guess I shouldn't.

Mitch

You shouldn't. He pulled out the 'how terrible it is to be falsely accused' thing

Kit Z. Fox

6:13 PM

@Mitch She.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox Wha? Barry is a she?

So she's being contrary?

Kit Z. Fox

Barry is Lightness Races in Orbit. I think she's a she.

I might be wrong.

user116848

Hi @KitZ.Fox.

Kit Z. Fox

Hi @Arrowfar. I have an draft sitting in my email for you.

user116848

@KitZ.Fox Oh good, thanks Kit.

Kit Z. Fox

6:17 PM

I haven't sent it because I don't know if it's really useful.

user116848

But um you are kind of late :/

user116848

I already wrote the "delete me" when they requested.

user116848

@KitZ.Fox Well send it :)

Kit Z. Fox

I just don't want you to think that I haven't given it any thought. I think I'm giving it too much thought.

user116848

I'm not into fake internet points anyway.

user116848

6:18 PM

I might create a new account next year.

Kit Z. Fox

But if you requested deletion, how is it you are still here?

user116848

I know right? :)

user116848

I will be gone any moment now.

user116848

I got the email yesterday telling me to write "delete me" in my profile. I did just that. With cool headedness btw :-)

user116848

I also settled things with Shog like terdon said.

user116848

6:19 PM

He said thanks.

user116848

:)

user116848

All good I guess.

user116848

I just want out.

user116848

Or wanted. I don't know.

Kit Z. Fox

It's a good idea to take a break.

user116848

6:21 PM

Yeah totally.

Kit Z. Fox

Put it down and walk away.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder, etc.

user116848

@KitZ.Fox By the way sorry for emailing you like that. I thought I would get a suspension or something by you ;-)

Terah

@Mitch Hi Mitch! Oh, I'm convinced that this is something she's writing herself. I didn't read it as a proof-read request though, but as a 'there's something wrong here, but I can't figure out what, or why, or what I can do to improve on it - can you guys educate me?'. A fair enough request I'd say, if not for ELU, than for ELL :)

Kit Z. Fox

@Arrowfar It's OK. I consider it part of my service as moderator.

user116848

@KitZ.Fox I know. You are one of the coolest mods by the way. You Matt, terdon and others :-)

IͶΔ

6:25 PM

And me.

Mitch

6:39 PM

@Terah It's funny, one tries to be detached and objective, but then realizing this was something she made up puts in into an entirely different context for me, which is whe wrote 'as if when' or whatever.

I was mildly incensed. And now can only give the advice that 'That's not the right way to write anything, is totally nonsense, so we have no idea how to rewrite it because we can't know what it means'

user116848

@KitZ.Fox Erm, if you are free send the draft the way it is. I want to read it.

user116848

:)

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox I saw the flag. that's how I got there.

user116848

So they changed chats a bit I see. I mean the welcome message and all.

Mitch

Meh...needs more pictures.

Terah

6:47 PM

@Mitch Ah, but if assumptions are to be made, either in reading the question or in answering it, I personally prefer to do it when answering :P

Mitch

@Terah with my interpretation, the question is unanswerable.

Terah

@Mitch Don't feel bad, most folks I heard about this question share your take

I'm just happy with the 5 that voted to reopen it and allow me to dig my own grave answering it :P

I was rather hoping that Rathony would be here though.. Wanted to run an idea by him, before deciding on putting up a meta question

IͶΔ

Run an idea by me then

Mitch

@IͶΔ Here's an idea... pre-peeled oranges. It's such a pain to peel an orange, all the rind pieces, your fingernails hurt, etc. It'd be a hit with the kids.

IͶΔ

I'm a kid and I disapprove.

Mitch

6:57 PM

@IͶΔ agape

or maybe agog

I know! gobsmacked

@IͶΔ You're just an orange hater.

IͶΔ

Jobs smacked

@Mitch You have no idea.

Mitch

@IͶΔ Aha! wait... does that mean... hm...

IͶΔ

I want you to throw an exception.

Mitch

I'll throw a tisfit. You don't want to see that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch you can buy mandarin oranges this way.

Mitch

7:01 PM

It makes a godawful mess

throwing a tisfit. not prepeeled mandarin oranges

mandarin oranges are pretty easy to peel already. what weakling needs those peeled for them?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitZ.Fox howdy! long time no chat

Mitch

Some baby?

Literally a baby

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Maybe only those easy oranges are peelable by machines

Mitch

That's magic, how machines can peel things. and take out pits. magic

Kit Z. Fox

Ohai.

IͶΔ

7:03 PM

@Mitch I wanna see that. @_@

Mitch

Was it someone here who said it would be cool to have a 'How it's made' episode on how they make those factories that are featured in 'How it's made'?

Delta Escher

RIP Story Tuesday

Mitch

Links to your story are there?

Delta Escher

No, but no one else did

I had lunch

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I had time to pin your topic

that's about it

IͶΔ

7:12 PM

Comment threads shouldn't be long. In an ideal world, they should only be used for clarification regarding the question. In all fairness, I see someone who wanted to explain why they close-voted to you. You asked for elaboration, they did. Meta discussion ensues. Just like always, he should've disengaged, but he didn't. He guided you to ELL, which is productive. NNS questions are more welcome on ELL. If you believe that thread is counterproductive, then all the participants are at fault. Please come to chat for a discussion — IͶΔ 12 secs ago

That feeling when you can't put a dot there because of the limit. :/

Terah

@IͶΔ Well, with all the discussion a few days ago (a repetition of past discussions I have no doubt) about ELU vs ELL, getting questions where they belong, etc, I was wondering inhowfar it would be possible to keep the two separate, but make dividing line a bit more transparant, for example by having the post on ELU link to the migrated question on ELL, rather than closing the question on ELU, adding comments about how it's out of scope, linking to ELL, etc

Mitch

@DeltaEscher The only morally supportable alternative. Saving puppies from being stepped on is a close second.

IͶΔ

@Terah +1, I've been thinking about this, but I haven't reached anywhere interesting.

Terah

Which I'm sure is a fine system, but I don't see it do much to promote ELL (while it does plenty to keep discussions going on ELU, which can't be good for morale either, in the long run).

IͶΔ

Concur.

Mitch

7:14 PM

@IͶΔ full stops are deprecated. it sounds like you're shoving it in their face when you use a period. at least that's what the kids say these days

stupid kids

Terah

With a more transparant migration and linking process (ELU simply saying 'This question was migrated to our ELL pages! <insert link>, I'm sure we can kill two birds with one stone :)

IͶΔ

@Mitch That's what I heard too.

It's based on some "studies".

Mitch

@IͶΔ I think that's more for texting. but chat is like texting. sort of

IͶΔ

@Mitch kinda

Terah

@Mitch Out of curiosity - have you ever read P. Kouwes?

Mitch

7:19 PM

Nope. Should I?

Terah

(or the question should be.. have those kids every read anything by him >.<)

Depends.. on how much you hate punctuation, capitalisation, etc...

Mitch

Nico Dijkshoorn?

IͶΔ

I hate punctuation -1 degrees.

Mitch

e e cummings had probelms with it all.

Terah

Aye, it's a pseudonym of him, but with a specific writing style.

Mitch

7:21 PM

oh.

IͶΔ

Celsius, not Fahrenheit. ಠ_ಠ

Mitch

I'm just lazy

Terah

maar goed kwa gedigten is er wel
een ader die ik heb vanuit een bepaald
gevoel wat dan niet komt als
proza want dat hou je dan toch dat
je er door wort overvallen zeg maar
door de po en zie dus wat jullie hier
tijdens schijtent in je linkerhant
houden is de werk van drie weken
gedigten uit verschillende bundels
met een kaft dus eigenlijk een soort
van boek zou je zeggen vroeger
voor de oorlog maar goed waar
hebben we het over stelletje kudten
want veel gedigten zijn vanuit een
dinges geschreven dat je denkt ja

Mitch

I really like other people using caps and punctuation.

Terah

also, it depends on how much you hate correct spelling and grammar :P

Fard

7:24 PM

Hello :)

user116848

@Fard Hello!

Terah

Hiya!

IͶΔ

Hullo!

Fard

Am I jumping in the middle of a discussion, or can I ask sth?

IͶΔ

Ask away. This is the discussion.

Fard

7:25 PM

OK.

IͶΔ

@Mitch I miss the times when I didn't understand this chat.

Fard

I was watching FRIENDS,

Rachel and Julie.wmv

►

And Rachel says: it was really hard for me,...for many reasons of which I'm not
gonna bore you with now,

She uses two prepositions

one before which and one at the end of the sentence.

Am I missing sth obvious?

... of which I'm not gonna bore you with ...

IͶΔ

Mmm, O_o

I can't play the video here right now, so you sure she said that?

Fard

Positive.

I was gonna post a question, but I didn't know if it was worth it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'd say the of should be deleted to make the sentence correct. But in casual speech that sort of mistake is usually ignored.

IͶΔ

7:30 PM

Ja

Fard

But she puts a preposition before which to sound formal, not _casual!

And I agree with you that it's probably incorrect.

IͶΔ

Just slip of the tongue. People don't speak correct English all the time.

@Fard It's a matter of grammaticality, not formality.

Fard

Yeah, I guess.

It's sort of a giveaway for people who wanna sound too formal

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah, perhaps it's a hypercorrection

to avoid a dangling preposition

Fard

They ruin the grammer.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:32 PM

which she forgets to leave out.

Fard

grammar.

IͶΔ

Analyzing Trump's sentences is way more fun.

gramma

grammo

rambo

7:33 PM

gramma!

IͶΔ

roomba

Fard

What, my grandson?

@IͶΔ What sentence?

IͶΔ

Whoa, how old are you?

Fard

I'm not a grandma. I was joking.

IͶΔ

You could be a grandpa.

Fard

7:34 PM

Who knows!

What Trump sentence?

IͶΔ

@MετάEd what Trump sentence?

Terah

I want to ask something too

Fard

Go ahead!

MετάEd

60

Q: Donald Trump's run-on sentences

In every Trump speech, almost every sentence is a run-on sentence. Here is a quote from one of his speeches last year Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finan...

Terah

Since when is 'sth' an acceptable abbreviation of 'something'? :P

Faheem Mitha

7:36 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, the "of" should go. Otherwise it's an ok sentence.

Fard

@Terah I come across it all the time in some dictionaries.

Terah

and I realize I'm abusing 'abbreviation' here.. Contraction, that's what I was looking for

MετάEd

@Terah Since we do not have a government authority that determines allowed abbreviations.

Fard

Longman, for instance.

IͶΔ

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:36 PM

@Terah anyth cn b an abbr of sth if u can ndrstnd it

IͶΔ

@Terah Yesterday afternoon

Terah

but seriously, I've never seen it until I came here, to be honest

IͶΔ

It occurs often in Longman dictionaries.

MετάEd

@IͶΔ Stp tht. N wrd bbrvtns n ths cht.

Terah

Well, yes, but on an english language board, it seems.. counter something

IͶΔ

7:37 PM

@MετάEd y nt

Fard

We shld avoid mispling here. I agree.

MετάEd

Bcs sd s.

IͶΔ

i <3 abbr

Terah

and no biggie, I was just wondering as I just didn't come across it before.

IͶΔ

Therefore 3 abbr could be a complex number.

Fard

7:39 PM

abbreviations.com/STH

@IͶΔ I didn't get what you just said.

Terah

Ah, see, that's where I went wrong.. I never chat on the internet

IͶΔ

@Terah :o

Terah

Still, not the most intuitive contraction! :P

IͶΔ

Actually, right now I don't chat anywhere else on the internet. It's just SE.

user116848

I will have to find something new :/

IͶΔ

7:41 PM

@Arrowfar Find a new molecule.

Fard

OK, @Terah , a test: sb is the abbr for?

@Fard somebody

Not hard, is it?

sb do sth!

@Fard Score Bragging

7:41 PM

Oh, Ina, on a temporarily more serious note: How would one go about finding out more about the possibilities concerning ELU/ELL?

IͶΔ

Stop Bus

@Terah The what?

What possibilities?

Terah

@Fard I can always guess, and possible guess right, but I wouldn't know :P

IͶΔ

Stamina Beak

Terah

@IͶΔ A more transparent and streamlined division between ELU/ELL in terms of question migration/linking.

IͶΔ

Stainless Buffoon

Fard

7:43 PM

Understanding a text may be more about guessing than knowing, sometimes at least.

IͶΔ

@Terah We've got a bunch of meta Q's but I don't find any of them that useful, since they're not objective.

Terah

srsly though, with 'sth', I just keep thinking it means 'shit'

screw logic

Fard

@IͶΔ I wish that was possible.

Terah

@Fard Agree, context always helps, but I prefer not to guess as to what someone intends to say :P

Fard

@Terah That would be sht, not sth.

Terah

7:44 PM

I know hence the 'screw logic' ;)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Terah It means Sith, as in the bad guys in the Star Wars movies

IͶΔ

7

Q: What is the difference between the "English Language & Usage" and "English Language Learners"?

What is the difference between the "English Language & Usage" and "English Language Learners"? Could anyone clarify the differences? Which questions should I ask here, and which ones should I ask there?

discussion scope

37

Q: How do I determine whether a question fits on English Language & Usage or on English Language Learners?

It's been less than ten minutes since I've been on this page and already I have a dire need: A checklist on: how do I determine whether a question fits on English Language & Usage or on English Language Learners?

discussion scope

Terah

@IͶΔ Hmyeah, I tried searching for combinations on ELL/ELU that actually went into bringing the two closer together without letting them overlap, but those didn't quite cover the load

those=the questions I found so far*

Fard

@IͶΔ Yeah, I've seen some of those, but convincing people to go by the rules, when they're so likely to break them... .

IͶΔ

SE's should optimally have some 20% overlap. In ELU/ELL case, it's like 80%. p_p

Fard

7:47 PM

Tell me about it.

IͶΔ

@Fard So are you suggesting that we shouldn't abide rules because others are likely not to?

Terah

Yeah, OK, I expressed my poorly there - I just wanted to indicate that it indeed shouldn't be the sort of one-sided overlap there is now

Fard

Of course not.

I was talking about what we should expect of the public.

IͶΔ

You should expect them to abide by the rules. If they don't, you should guide them.

Fard

@Terah What do you mean, one sided? It's two-sided already.

Terah

7:48 PM

Well.. the 2nd question INA posted seems like a question that could have been answered by the OP by simply putting the Help Centers side by side - 'What question can I ask here'.

IͶΔ

If you don't expect them to adhere to what's been decided, what are the decisions good for?

@Terah No.

That question was from when the site was a few days old.

Terah

@Fard Admittedly my experience on ELL is limited, but from what I've seen glancing around, it seems that there's a lot more questions being asked on ELU that should have been asked on ELL than is the case the other way around.

IͶΔ

There was no help center to compare.

@Terah Of course.

Terah

@IͶΔ Ah, right, OK, that explains it, ofc

Fard

Yeah, it's heavier on that side.

IͶΔ

7:50 PM

9

A: Is english.stackexchange aimed at professionals, or also at rookies?

English.SE (People are comfy with calling it ELU) is for questions a native English speaker may ask or questions there are about topics that concern mostly native speakers. There's a good chance that learner questions belong to ELL.SE. See how ELL's different from ELU: What is the difference betw...

That guy didn't even know ELL existed.

Terah

That's what I meant with the one-sided overlap

Fard

@IͶΔ One extreme example is to fine drivers because of centimetrical deviations.

Terah

@IͶΔ That is a good example of the part of these SE's I'm having a slight problem with - at least with the 'in your face' approach to reporting that a question is off-topic, out of scope, etc. I mean.. it's not very welcoming, even if answers were provided

Fard

If it's not simple enough, you'll have to guide them forever.

Terah

At least I can well imagine that new users don't really feel that welcome, especially considering how relatively hard it is to even learn about ELL from just Google searches.

Maybe I'm rooting for the underdog just a tad too much, but in terms of 'customer friendiness', I think we can gain some ground and attract/create a more involved user base

Anonymous

7:55 PM

@Terah I think you're right. And a lot of them should be migrated to ELL. But please don't encourage the migration of very low quality questions to ELL.

Fard

Maybe a picture and a link on the homepage of ELU would help.

Hi @snailboat !

Anonymous

Hello! :-)

IͶΔ

@Terah It isn't.

If you talk to someone from meta.SO, they'd even say it shouldn't be.

Anonymous

@Terah Yeah, I know what you mean. We do have to evaluate questions and decide whether they fit the standards of the site, but we should never be mean about it.

IͶΔ

@snailboat Hullo!

Good noon, I guess?

Terah

7:57 PM

@snailboat Hahaha, I read you post. To clarify though, I didn't so much refer them to ELL with their question, but more to learn about English first, so that he could ask that question properly.

Anonymous

One of the main points of having a system like this in the first place is that we don't need rudeness to get rid of low-quality contributions.

IͶΔ

Mhm

Fard

We (you experts, I mean) shouldn't be intending to be mean about it, but not to seem mean is hard.

Terah

@snailboat But it's.. clinical approach can come across as rude.. or at least look unwelcoming

Fard

and shouldn't be an issue.

IͶΔ

7:58 PM

The problem is that a downvote or a close vote is an insult for some people.

Terah

its*

IͶΔ

@Terah Yeah.

They shouldn't feel that way, but they do.

They always do.

Anonymous

@Terah I agree, it's tricky. Even a dispassionate comment can be taken the wrong way. People tend to take things personally even when they're not worded that way. It's only human nature – people don't like having their content rejected.

Fard

I dislike downvotes, unless there are many of them. :)

IͶΔ

The downvote is effective. It always has been. It's just that people tend to take downvotes to mean what they don't mean: Some take them as downright personal insults, some take them as discouragement, some use them as a digital weapon etc. I think of downvotes as just means of moderating the site and separating useful content from one that isn't, so yeah, downvotes are very effective. — IͶΔ Feb 18 at 13:08

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…