English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

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M.A.R.

4:00 PM

And every single time that I wanted to organize things so they'd look less messy, meta.ELL turned me down.

Keep these mind

Today I heard somebody pronounce bespoke and, yet again, it didn't sound like I had imagined it would.

M.A.R.

So I complained on meta, which led to this.

Q: Currently Unresolved Proposal List

As a step toward ensuring that proposals don't languish in a limbo state where it's not clear whether the community wants to move forward with them or not, I'm compiling a list of proposals that have a concrete action we could take and that haven't been acted on and haven't been explicitly resolv...

discussion

But that's moving forward like a snail.

Cerberus

@Keepthesemind How did you imagine it should sound?

Like bee?

Keep these mind

@Cerberus Yup

Cerberus

Perhaps that pronunciation is also possible.

And the pronunciation of the o also varies.

@M.A.R. I wish you good luck...

Keep these mind

4:03 PM

@Cerberus What I heard sounded like bis-poke, with a clear -. Some English parliamentary commission.

M.A.R.

@Cerberus Thankz you in advantage

Cerberus

@Keepthesemind I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

You can listen to pronunciations on Forvo and Howjsay.

@M.A.R. Someone needs to consult ELL, methinks.

Keep these mind

@Cerberus I had expected bee-spoke. Then perhaps bis-spoke. But it came out bis-poke.

M.A.R.

@Cerberus no mah engish iz purrfecto

Cerberus

@Keepthesemind Well, isn't that the normal way English parts syllables?

VCCV → VC-CV

@M.A.R. Kitty!

M.A.R.

4:06 PM

242

Q: No Thanks, Damn It!

For a while this year, I was on a crusade, editing posts to remove "Thanks". But there were far too many of those posts. So I started to remove "Thanks in advance". But there were too many of those. So I started to remove "Thanks in advanced", which in addition to being inappropriate for Stack...

discussion clean-up

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I would expect it to have the same first syllable as behave, believe, besmirch, etc.

Keep these mind

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But I also say bee-have instead of buh-have. Probably I got that wrong too.

Cerberus

@M.A.R. Ahhh I see.

Very nice.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Which is variable, wouldn't you agree?

That is, both pronunciations of the e are possible?

It may also depend on region/etc.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

which is to say, in natural speech the be would be destressed until the vowel becomes /I/ or /ə/.

@Cerberus yeah. Like, if someone was emphasizing: "It was a BE SPOKE SUIT!" it'd be like bee. If they were speaking naturally the vowel gets ... ~~blurred~~ (something linguisticy-sounding) to the unstressed vowels

I'd find it odd to break the word up into clear syllables of "bis" and "poke"

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Exactly.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

4:13 PM

> be-
word-forming element with a wide range of meaning: "thoroughly, completely; to make, cause seem; to provide with; at, on, to, for," from Old English be- "on all sides" (also used to make transitive verbs and as a privative or intensive prefix), from weak form of Old English bi "by," probably cognate with second syllable of Greek amphi, Latin ambi and originally meaning "about" (see ambi-).

This sense naturally drifted into intensive (as in bespatter "spatter about," therefore "spatter very much"). Be- can also be privative (as in behead), causative, or have just about any sense requi…

Cerberus

Reduced.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

lol, bethwack where is Martha when you need her

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But I do think that is what happens.

But we don't "hear" it in ourselves when it crosses the boundary of a morpheme.

Cf. res-pite, helicop-ter.

Morphologicaly it should be re-spite and helico-pter.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hm, true I guess

Færd

4:40 PM

Q: Which sentence ending(s) is/are right?

When I got up this morning ...

A: the birds where singing.

B: the birds sang.

C: I was having breakfast.

D: I had breakfast.

Answer: All of them aer possible.

Stupid tests.

The answer key says only A and D. And it's a book by a well-known, reputable grammarian.

Cerberus

C seems unlikely.

Færd

I could have been dreaming.

Cerberus

And B also seems somewhat unlikely.

I suppose.

Færd

They celebrated my awaking.

Cerberus

Right, that's how I would read it.

The problem with these questions is often that they don't clearly tell you how much context they expect you to take into account.

Færd

4:46 PM

That's right. I'm just incapable of doing well in those tests. Like, physically incapable.

I have a wandering mind. I don't know where to stop thinking about possibilities.

M.A.R.

@Færd Murphy?

Færd

Michael Swan.

And another person.

M.A.R.

@Færd UNPOSSIBLEZ

Færd

Seeing is believing.

It's partly my fault actually, to be fair.

Tonepoet

@Cerberus Eating breakfast while you're waking up? It's more likely than you might think!

Cerberus

4:51 PM

Hah.

She just has her eyes closed...

@Færd I understand.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:41 PM

Maybe you're so important that whenever you do something momentous, like getting up, birds everywhere sing out of sheer bliss.

Cerberus

Yup, that's what Faerd meant.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Maybe they're trying to warn you that you're sleep-making-and-eating-breakfast again

Cerberus

5:58 PM

Smart birds.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

They know what chaos it will cause at the ESL testing centre but they're dedicated to you and your safety, so they sing anyway

tchrist

6:23 PM

Q: How to decide if has or have is needed in a sentence

How to decide if has or have is needed in a sentence. Grammatical correct sentence.

tenses

That question gets asked

Every

Single

Day

Also we get daily "Please correct this: ...." proofreading questions. I guess there's no way to ever stop this, nor perhaps even to slow it.

M.A.R.

@tchrist Well, there is one way.

Destroy all the power plants in the world.

tchrist

Because only people who work at power plants are trying to learn English. Gotcha.

M.A.R.

No, because those who learn English and post on ELU rashly need electricity to do so.

tchrist

Druggists have creams for a rash.

Maybe that would help.

Q: Please find attached my completed survey form below

Does this sound polite and formal enough? Please find attached my completed survey form below.

american-english writing-style email

Yes.

No.

Why?

Maybe.

Also, what's with attached and below both in the same sentence?

And not even juxtaposed.

M.A.R.

6:40 PM

@tchrist Please find below.

Mitch

7:25 PM

@tchrist please find my below form

runs away

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 When I wake up birds sing out of their sheer bliss, which is quite a talent

@terdon My apologies for pooping on your effing answer stream. But science has standards! No matter how effing fun it is to make stuff up.

1 hour later…

tchrist

8:42 PM

Carpenters - Close to you

►

Færd

@Cerberus You're an understanding fella.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Immediately I saw that sentence I thought of Pinocchio's father and how the bird in his clock sang after he'd gotten up and frightened him, and I thought to myself, "That's a perfectly legit sentence.".

There's nothing wrong with its syntax or semantics; even the context is not that improbable; just needs a bit of imagination.

user227867

9:21 PM

I can't believe I repcapped today, hehe.

user227867

@tchrist Nice Arabian proverb. These are four types of men, but there is a fifth thing, and that is Superman.

user227867

@Tonepoet Is that your mum cooking your breakfast?

user227867

@M.A.R. French is nice, simply because the French flag has a nice blue.