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Anonymous
1:40 AM
@Mitch sensei /seɴseʜ/ is pronounced [sẽɰ̃ːseː]
 
bows
 
Anonymous
The census counted about 200,000 native speakers of English in 2001
 
Anonymous
I don't know anything about their methodology.
 
Anonymous
And around 180,000 in the 1991 census
 
Anonymous
1:55 AM
I don't know of any other numbers for native speakers in India. Contemporary Indian English: Variation and Change quotes the census figures, and so does Wikipedia
 
2:31 AM
@Cerberus Nice recovery.
 
Oh, was that a recovery?
From where?
I am slightly drunk and listening to Mahler's 5th.
 
When you converted your drunken wobble into a bow. :)
 
Ah, you knew?
 
Of course.
 
Have you been stalking me again?
 
2:33 AM
I am in my stocking feet.
 
Then you should have noticed that I walked home 38 minutes from the party.
All the while reading about Catullus and Clodia on my phone.
 
I thought you were walking.
 
Except where I had to cross streets or pass people from close by.
 
Not reading.
 
I did both at the same time.
 
2:34 AM
Why would people cause you to change your behavior?
 
Because I didn't want to bump into them.
There are no obstacles except people and other streets, which contain traffic.
 
And to defend against erratic movements?
 
I do not move erratically.
 
Oh streets.
No, their erratic movements.
Not your staggering.
 
Oh, yes, exactly.
I rarely ever stagger myself.
I'm hardly ever that drunk.
 
2:36 AM
stagger, stagger, lurch, fall.
Pirate map directions.
 
Not I.
Map directions?
I know the way, except for the first couple of streets where my friend lives.
 
It’s from some dumb comedic movie of yesteryear I can no longer possibly recall but that.
 
Ah.
 
Secret treasure map.
 
I don't watch comedic movies.
 
2:37 AM
Pirates are always drunk, so the directions require drunken movements. :)
 
Television series, perhaps; but not movies.
Ah, I see.
I thought it was about copyright and maps or something, look how brainwashed I am.
 
I'm still listening to Mahler...
 
kk
 
Is your video worth the interruption, both from chat and from him?
 
2:39 AM
It's only 0:33s.
From 1983.
No wonder I cannot remember it.
 
Very well, then. The 2nd movement has just ended.
My birth year.
That is a rather acrobatic stagger!
I should be so lucky.
 
He’s trying to find the treasure.
That’s Graham Chapman.
 
I'm not sure whether I like this performance, but it will do for now.
 
I avoid Mahler. He either confuses me when I don’t understand him, or depresses me when I do.
 
Hmm.
He is depressing, but magnificent.
Perhaps listen only to single movements.
The fast-paced ones.
 
2:44 AM
Just not while driving.
 
Are you driving right now? That would surprise me, since you hated mobile phones so much...
 
Are you high?
 
No?
 
I was simply recommending that one not listen to fast-paced music while driving.
 
Well, as you know, I don't drive.
I thought you were talking about your situation right now.
 
2:47 AM
By the way, and this is weird, I today saw a clip of Carice van Houten’s audition reel for Game of Thrones, and there’s some off-script talk, and she has less of a Dutch accent in real life, even before the series started, than she sometimes seems to have in the show. I wonder why that is.
 
Really?
 
Yeah.
 
She always seems to have a pretty heavy accent to me, both off and on stage.
 
Maybe the showrunners are doing that because she’s supposed to be foreign.
Well, it was a short clip.
They for example had one actor put on a foreign accent for his role.
 
That is possible, especially since I should expect any actor to practice her accent for the stage. And it is much easier to concentrate on one's accent when pronouncing lines from a script.
 
2:49 AM
Hm, I don’t mean the Americans. :)
Well, actually.
 
Of course it will be difficult for the Americans to get rid of their accent for the role...
Movement 3 has just ended.
 
Pedro Pascal was cast as Prince Oberyn, and he’s supposed to have an accent. Well, he speaks American English just fine, so he put on his father’s Chilean accent for the role.
I don’t know that your ‘of course’ is wholly merited, but it was sometimes tough.
Peter Dinklage had a tough time of it at first, and still occasionally slips a bit.
Tyrion.
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau playing his brother Jaime also slipped a bit at first on the accent.
 
Ah.
 
Then again, he’s Danish. But he had just shot like four years in America, so speaks American English.
 
I see you have followed the series rather well.
 
2:53 AM
Not so well.
This season was too hard.
 
Why?
 
Too gruesome.
 
I stopped watching many seasons ago.
But all the seasons are gruesome?
 
You know whose accent never once slipped into his native American? Lee Pace who played Legolas’s father the Elf-king.
 
I remember even less from those films.
 
2:54 AM
But he’s younger, so perhaps more malleable.
Of course when you can play your native accent, it's easier on you.
 
What do you mean?
 
Luke Evans got to keep his Welsh accent as Bard the Bowman. Sean Bean got to keep his native (and very heavy) Sheffield accent as Eddard Stark.
 
Oh, in that way.
 
In fact, they fashioned the whole "northern accent" after his.
 
By the way, I really hate it when there are accents in any film or play.
 
2:57 AM
Ian McKellan listened to tapes of Tolkien speaking to pick up the accent he used for Gandalf.
 
I prefer the Vancean way.
It's fake anyway, so don't bother with stupid accents.
 
I hate accents in books.
 
Yes, in books it is just as bad.
 
In books it is even worse with spelling pronunciations.
 
Ugh.
Don't even...
 
2:58 AM
Sorry, I should have written eye dialect.
 
The only situation in which I appreciate accents is if it is in a very realistic film, and then only if it is absolutely necessary.
 
Have you seen Ian’s latest film yet?
 
I never see films.
 
It’s being extremely well-received.
> In 1947, the long-retired Sherlock Holmes, aged 93, lives in a remote Sussex farmhouse with his housekeeper, Mrs. Munro, and her young son, Roger. Holmes is unhappy about his ex-partner Watson's published version of his last case, which involved a young married woman who was distraught after two failed pregnancies. Holmes hopes to write his own account, but due to the deterioration of his memory struggles to remember what happened.
Interestingly, they therefore applied "aging" make-up for him, since he’s rather shy of 93.
I’ve just heard about it.
I nearly never go to the cinema.
 
Oh, I saw a preview at the cinema.
 
3:25 AM
I just found out my wireless router supplied by the provider isn't WPA2 protected.
Not even WEP.
WTF???
I thought that shit was standard these days, so I didn't even bother to check.
So when I tried to add WPA2 the damn thing froze up on me. I had to reset.
Why can't this shit just work? I ask you.
First-world problems, I know. Still . . .
I'm up too late. I should go to bed, but how can I go to bed when my network is in disarray?
Oh shit, my mistake. Or rather Verizon's. My router is WPA2 protected. The setup page just doesn't SHOW that. It has blank radio buttons for WEP, WAP, and WAP2. That's what made me think it wasn't set up yet. But when I ran the diagnostic report it shows that WPA2 is on.
Stupid UI idiots.
But at least I can go to bed now.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:03 AM
Hey guys, studying for SAt's in summer, and I need your advice.
I am confused by this advice given in the book:
"Principle 3: Read the First Third Closely.

You should read the first third more closely than the rest of the passage. Why? Because the passage's topic is revealed here, and -- quite often -- so is the author's purpose, as well as his or her attitude towards the subject. This is what you want to know to get a sense of the "Big Picture.""
See, I tried to find out what the "first third" was, and googling it did not help. Does it mean the first third paragraph? First third sentence? It's a phrase I have never heard before, and it is confusing.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:22 AM
@snailboat Ok, thank you. 200k is low, but not necessarily unreasonable.
And I don't know anything about their methodology either.
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog It means the first 1/3 part of the passage. Suppose the passage had 12 lines; then you would read the first 4 lines.
Lines 1–4 are the first third, 5–8 the second third, 9–12 the third third or last third.
 
I had no idea the Indian govt had official figures about English speakers.
 
6:37 AM
@Robusto Most Indians who speak English speak terrible English. And write terrible English. That's a fact.
 
@snailboat thanks!
 
And as I have remarked elsewhere, seem remarkably uninterested in improving.
 
Except that translates to me (in my poor interpretation of IPA) as 'sew-see'
@FaheemMitha most Americans speak terribly ... but at least they have the accent down.
 
@Mitch Indians are worse on average.
At least, in my opinion.
 
Anonymous
Ah, sorry―I saw someone asking for IPA so I joined to supply IPA :-)
 
Anonymous
6:43 AM
The n in sensei is a special kind of sound with a bunch of different pronunciations, generally depending on what the following sound is. Before /s/, it becomes the sound represented by that funny w-looking thingy―a long nasalized dorso-velar semivowel (The Sounds of Japanese, Vance 2008, p.97)
 
Anonymous
It's like a uvular nasal, except that it allows airflow through the oral cavity as well as the nasal cavity
 
Anonymous
The other point to mention is that it's pronounced like sensee. The final i isn't really pronounced as [i]
 
Anonymous
Instead, it indicates a lengthening of the [e]
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog you get a passage, either a sentence or a paragraph or maybe a page of text. Whatever you get they're saying read only a third of it, the first third. I don't know if I agree but they probably have more experience. But I wouldnt _not _ read the rest just pay more attention to the first third
 
Anonymous
(It's possible to pronounce the i as [i], but it generally doesn't happen.)
 
Anonymous
6:46 AM
You can ignore that stuff about the nasal and just pronounce it like [n]. Everyone will understand fine, even if it's not how people most commonly say it themselves.
 
Anonymous
The sound is rather similar, anyway.
 
@FaheemMitha well every Indian has to learn at least three languages so I cut them some slack. Their local language, Hindi, and English.
 
@Mitch Unless their local language happens to be Hindi. And I'm not sure what the situation is in the South. They don't like Hindi there.
 
@snailboat nice explanation. So my understanding isn't way off.
 
@Mitch I think it might be true that to finish school they have to pass an exam in Hindi. But that is not the same thing as learning it.
 
6:51 AM
@RegDwigнt you wondered why anyone would even consider 'sen-sye' because that's what I hear in TV and movies and 'ei' is pronounced that way in German
@snailboat I am finding transcriptions extremely annoying because of things like that. Make the transcription such that the native speaker can understand the foreigner if the foreigner pronounces the letters as if they were the foreigners script. It's not pandering, it's information theory.
 
@FaheemMitha yeah I've heard that non Hindi speakers prefer English because it is the enemy further away, so to speak.
 
@Mitch Something like that.
 
Or the common enemy
@FaheemMitha true of life/all school things
 
Anonymous
@Mitch Pinyin is one of the worst in that regard
 
6:57 AM
Though these days, the British presence in India is gradually leaving living memory. It is now coming up to 70 years since they left.
Though anti-British feeling still seems to be strong. I made some nasty comments about the British a few years ago in an elevator, and got enthusiastic approval from a bunch of total strangers.
Though the official education channels tend to soft-pedal it. In my school at least, they hardly talked about the British and what they did to India. Probably the people who run India don't care - there isn't much difference between them and the British. They are all thieves and murderers, so what's the difference?
 
@FaheemMitha wow. But a mixed message some anti English too: "...not to mention the abuse that is English imposition itself"
@snailboat exactly.
 
@Mitch You're referencing the article? I don't think people are exactly pro-English here, in general. Either in the North and the South. Nobody has forgotten where it came from.
 
But with pinyin there is at least a one to one correspondence with IPA (mostly)
Not too hard to learn (but still a non neglibeable learning stage
 
And Modi is that delightful man who made beef illegal. And there are rumors they are also trying to make alcohol illegal, or more difficult to obtain. Real smart moves.
Some people really need to study some history. Lunch time. Later, folks.
 
@FaheemMitha but my point is at least with respect to language English is the lesser of two evils. Politically I don't know. Well I'd guess that. The Wnglish are vilified still (you've given examples just now with snail)
 
Anonymous
7:05 AM
Japanese pronunciation is relatively straightforward overall, but there are a few details of the phonetics that are tricky for non-native speakers. And those tricky details don't show up in phonemic romanization schemes, nor in the Japanese orthography.
 
@snailboat I usually drop my pitch a few keys when I speak cough Japanese.
I wonder if what I do is qualified as "speak".
 
Hello friends :-)
 
Hello, @skillpatrol!
 
Snack time...back in a bit
 
Later pal
 
7:10 AM
o/
 
(^_^)/
 
Anonymous
I don't know how much proficiency people think speak or speaker imply. My impression is that people use the words in different ways.
 
Anonymous
Likewise for 日本語話者, which seems to sometimes exclude 日本語学習者
 
Anonymous
But if I mean 日本語母語話者, I say that and not 日本語話者
 
Anonymous
7:15 AM
That doesn't stop native speakers from excluding me when they say the latter, though :-)
 
Aww
 
Anonymous
Meanwhile on the English side of things, I consider people to be English speakers as long as they're, well, speaking Engilsh! Even if they aren't doing it like a native speaker.
 
Anonymous
I guess that some folks consider their non-native English not to be actual English, but that seems odd to me.
 
nods -- For me, English speakers include non-native speakers as well.
 
Anonymous
Even beginners! As long as they're capable of interacting :-)
 
Anonymous
7:18 AM
So naturally I extend that same line of thinking to speaking Japanese.
 
I suppose so!
Heh! I just realize that there is no such thing as "Thai speaker" in Thai!
 
Anonymous
Oh yeah?
 
Yep! Literally, it's [person-who-use-thai].
 
Anonymous
Earlier when I wrote 日本語母語話者 ('native speaker of Japanese'), well, that's the right phrase, but it's actually pretty rare in Japanese
 
So, it's more about "use" not "speak".
 
Anonymous
7:21 AM
Japanese speakers tend to say 日本人 ('Japanese person')
 
Same here!
I guess that [person-who-use-thai] was coined after English's "English speaker".
 
Anonymous
How often do you use [person-who-use-thai] in Thai?
 
Only rarely. I think it's only when we talk about language users in a formal context.
So, in English, we have native (English) speakers, non-native (English) speakers, and English speakers.
 
Anonymous
Learners, often enough.
 
nods
 
Anonymous
7:26 AM
Sometimes NS and NNS, sometimes L1 and L2 speakers. There are lots of terms, I guess.
 
Sometimes I hear the term fluent speakers, too.
 
Anonymous
Fluent is famously poorly defined. (Oops, two words in a row with -ly!)
 
Agree! (on both accounts :-)
 
Anonymous
I take it to mean 'flowing'. Can you usually keep speaking and expressing yourself without the words running dry? By this definition, fluent doesn't necessarily imply mastery of the language.
 
Anonymous
I've read some definitions of fluent online that set the bar so high, it'd be a wonder if any non-native speaker really qualified!
 
7:29 AM
I usually look at fluency and proficiency as two sides of the same coin, and a coin needs both sides.
@snailboat Oh! That makes me curious!
A funny thing for me about the little chart Faheem Mitha linked to is that it adds a few number of languages I can speak instantly. :p
Because I can speak standard Thai language, Southern Thai language, Northern Thai language, and I can make a pass at Isan (Northeastern Thai) language.
Not to mention Laotian, which I can possibly do better than just pidgin.
And it makes English the 4th language I learned, instead of 2nd. :-)
 
8:01 AM
I'm back. Woo hoo!
So we solved indias political problems right? What do we tackle next?
 
@Mitch Japanese? :P
 
Oh I see we moved on to 'fluncy'
 
@Mitch snail?
 
So Damkerng I take it that you speak Thail and snail you speak Japanese?
Fluently? NNS? (Not mutually exclusive)
Snailboat
 
I can speak Thai, and snailboat can speak Japanese.
 
8:05 AM
@tchrist Just what the world needs. Another Sherlock Holmes film.
 
It looks like I just learned that I can speak several Thai languages. (^_^)"
 
Oh, snail == snailboat.
 
There are so many right now!
TV, movies, Benedict cumberbatch, Lucy liu, Jude law all separate.
Yes I know I used Watson for a couple there, I don't know the actors names for the sherlocks.
 
Also, Robert Downey Jr. Terrible casting choice.
 
Yes he's an acquired taste. Perfect as ironman though
Plays the jerk a little too well
 
8:17 AM
"They were shot using machine guns." is this sentence ambiguous ?
 
No.
 
By context it is obvious that the shooting is done using machine guns, so it is not 'they' using them but someone else.
 
They were using the machine guns when they were shot. They were shot by someone else with the machine guns.
 
Do you want it to be ambiguous? You could force it but it would not be natural
 
8:26 AM
I do not want it.
it just seemed to me ambiguous at first glance.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:42 AM
A grave is always IN the cemetery not ON. Am I wrong?
 
You are correct.
Or "at."
 
in which context ?
do we use at?
When we talk about the area within the boundaries of the cemetery ?
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive body detected: Did they say "hand job" in the 1800s? by ljs on english.stackexchange.com
 
 
2 hours later…
11:20 AM
@FaheemMitha Most of the Mumbai-area people I've worked with speak Telugu as a first language, I think.
@JustynaNogala If you're close enough to the cemetery to point to it (or actually on the grounds), you'd refer to the plot as being in the cemetery. If you're far away, so that you need to orient the person you're talking to with respect to its geography, you would say at the cemetery. Mostly.
 
@Robusto thank you, the English prepositions always cause me big troubles.
 
All prepositions are problematic when learning a language. We want to see a one-to-one correspondence between prepositions in our language and the new one, but that simply can't be true. Prepositions have so many nuances, and are overloaded with so many different meaning senses, and are bound to different verb phrases in different ways, that these "little words" can be really hard to pin down.
 
You can't even learn them by heart.
 
11:41 AM
Look at zu and bei in German. English speakers always want to map them exactly to English to and by, but that doesn't really work.
 
zu Fuß = on foot
not by foot ;]
We make exactly the same mistakes in Polish.
 
And, funnier still, bei mir zu Hause (for English speakers, lit. "by me to house"), just means "at my place."
 
We do always say "na cmentarzu" which means literally "on the cemetery" which is not correct in English. Also, the preposition "at" does not exist in Polish.
 
Its functions are probably shared among other prepositions.
 
yes, that's why it's very problematic. We have 2 prepositions instead of 3
Of course we have other prepositions of place such as under, above etc but these are not that difficult unlike in or at.
 
11:51 AM
We can be in the office, at work, on the fifth floor, all at the same time.
 
That's obvious. The problem appears when you are either in/on/at the street or in/on or at the square. -_-
 
I was in the office, at work, on the fifth floor when I heard about 911.
I would never actually say that^
 
@JustynaNogala Well, but you can be on the square and in the square at the same time. Also at the square, in some cases.
 
How the heck do I know in which case should I use them?
 
context
is KING
 
12:01 PM
ok, lets say something like that.
We have to gather on the square.
Do I mean in the middle or anywhere within the square?
 
anywhere on the square
 
*on* the square refers to specific placement of feet on the area delimited by the square
*in* the square means within the physical boundaries of the square's perimeter.
*at* the square refers to the geographic location of the square; you might be at a cafe bordering the square without actually being *in* or *on* it
But these things are still squishy. A native speaker would know instinctively which one to use for the right feel.
 
That's what I'm talking about.
 
And it varies depending on which dialect of English you speak.
 
developing "instincts" takes practice
 
12:06 PM
You can know the rules but still cannot use them.
 
An American would live on Drury Lane. An Englishman would live in Drury Lane.
 
in the final analysis prepositions are "idiomatic"
 
Also, if someone is in the hospital they are a patient; if they are at the hospital they are not, but might be visiting a patient.
Brits say in hospital for patients, btw. (Not in the hospital.)
You really can't "get" prepositions unless you simply hear the language spoken a lot by native speakers, and in many different contexts. There aren't any formulas that are 100% successful.
 
I've read "the rule" saying that when we have a specific address we have to use "at" e.g I live at 5 Maple Grove street. In the text that I'm working on every address is not specified but still the previous author did use "at" instead of in
 
Prepositions and postpositions, together called adpositions, are a class of words that express spatial or temporal relations (in, under, towards, before) or marking various semantic roles (of, for). A preposition or postposition typically combines with a noun or pronoun, or more generally a noun phrase, this being called its complement, or sometimes object. A preposition comes before its complement; a postposition comes after its complement. English has prepositions rather than postpositions – words such as in, under and of precede their objects, as in in England, under the table, of Jane. Some...
 
12:14 PM
And sometimes we add or drop prepositions where your native tongue wouldn't. I'm learning Spanish right now, and where in English we would say "The mother blames her son" Spanish would say "La madre culpa a su hijo" (The mother blames "at" her son.)
 
The old mill was located at Poniatowkich street.
 
The old mill was located on Poniatowkich Street. But The old mill was located at 553 Poniatowkich Street.
 
why ?
 
That's just how it is.
There is no why. Or at least the why does not matter.
 
9 mins ago, by skill patrol
in the final analysis prepositions are "idiomatic"
 
12:16 PM
I'm getting dizzy
see you in a bit ;)
 
later pal
 
crl
leg-o
 
nice
 
crl
l'ego
 
What is the mathematical identity (e to the exponent (i times pi) ) +1 = 0 called? Is that the Fermat identity?
Sorry, can't write math in chat.
I look up Fermat identity and it refers to a combinatorial identity.
Not the same thing.
 
crl
12:31 PM
Euler formula?
 
Ah, Euler identity. Thanks.
In mathematics, Euler's identity (also known as Euler's equation) is the equality where e is Euler's number, the base of natural logarithms, i is the imaginary unit, which satisfies i2 = −1, and π is pi, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Euler's identity is named after the Swiss mathematician Leonhard Euler. It is considered an example of mathematical beauty. == ExplanationEdit == Euler's identity is a special case of Euler's formula from complex analysis, which states that for any real number x, where the values of the trigonometric functions sine and cosine are given...
 
crl
I've seen a dead squirrel on the road today :(
And a dead young wild boar yesterday, with its gut opened..
 
*boar
I think you mean with its belly ripped open.
 
crl
Ah yes right
When I ride, most of the time I look at the road, 3 meters in front of my front wheel. That comes from my fear of having a flat tyre
 
Me too. And when my gaze wanders, I hit a pothole.
 
crl
12:40 PM
Yes of course, those holes..
It must be hard to ride in peloton, because you can't see the road well (if you're not first)
 
It's hard to ride in a group at all because of that.
I was following some friends who were side by side. At one point they swerved to either side to avoid a pigeon. It was like opening a curtain to show me barreling down on the bird, and it was all I could do to stop in time. Why didn't the stupid pigeon fly away?
The wife of one of the guys was behind me, and she fell off her bike trying to avoid hitting me.
 
crl
you braked for that pigeon :) ?
 
Not that I cared for the pigeon, but what it might do to me and my bike if I were to hit it and lose control.
 
crl
yeah, it might slide, correct
or if it goes in the spokes
learning vocab
I see a lot of flattened pigeons on the road too
 
Flattened by cars, not bikes.
-1
A: Can I say "awaken me from my naive view"?

RobustoUsing waken from with view is not necessarily a bad thing. It would coerce the noun view to be taken as a form of slumber or revery. This may be a powerful tool or a clumsy one, depending on how it's handled. Just remember that there are no real "rules" about writing except one: does it work? If...

No good deed goes unpunished.
I'm 100% right in that answer, and all I get is a crappy down vote. Fuck 'em.
 
crl
12:50 PM
@Robusto of course, bikes have almost no footprints on the environment
 
Unless you're riding on soft asphalt.
Well, I'm off on my ride. TTYL.
 
crl
Ok, btw I like "enlighten" for the question you referred to
 
 
1 hour later…
2:15 PM
@crl Wow, what a terrible performance today. The course I usually finish in an hour took me almost an hour and six minutes. I just feel slow today.
That's like my worst time yet.
Probably I need a day off. But I hate to waste a weekend day like that.
 
2:31 PM
@Robusto Then they must be from the South.
 
crl
3:01 PM
@Robusto Meh, you shouldn't care too much about time
I go so slowly sometimes, on the flat sections (boring)
 
 
2 hours later…
4:35 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive title detected: his wife called me a whore? or burikat n tagalog by lani enerio on english.stackexchange.com
 
5:27 PM
Hi all, need help on finding a word/term
what would you call typing words of one languages in other like writing Korean/Chineese/Hindi words in English, not translation but just to pronounce it
 
Anonymous
When you write a language in Latin script that is usually written in another script, it's often called romanization.
 
Anonymous
If you're writing down language as it's spoken (whether it's in Latin script or not), it's called transcription.
 
Anonymous
If you're converting from one writing system to another, it's called transliteration.
 
Why not "translation?"
The word has many general senses :-)
 
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