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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 23:00

13:11
@Robusto You and your communication pieces.
I mean 'words'.
ha! words are so last century. everyone communicates with cats these days
they're better listeners
puppies ... grinds teeth ... goddammit, puppies
@MattE.Эллен I know! words are so... limiting, so expressionless.
You just can't get things across with words. Even gestures, like pointing, are deficient.
You know what I mean?
@Mitch can't tell, I'm afraid. The cat had my attention
@infinitesimal Nice article. Everett's very controversial.
Everest, on the other hand, is high and cold at the top
13:22
@MattE.Эллен Ha ha. Cat's are dumb. When you point at something they follow your finger, not what you're pointing at. Dog's do that too. See? Neither of them are slaves to the hegemony of literacy.
Yes, he has given me a lot to look up @Mitch in that article.
And Everett sort of has a monopoly on Piraha language data. (not theory but data). It's nice to see someone fighting Chomsky on universal pronouncements, but the methods and results are questionable.
@MattE.Эллен You don't know that that is not the case with Everett. In fact...
I think my point is proven.
@Mitch most linguists don't really believe in Chomsky's universal grammar anymore
@Mitch is he high? he looks low, to me
The article makes a good comparison between Freud and Chomsky
The details of their theories are no longer accepted, but they got people thinking in the right direction.
The relationship between language and thought is, in my opinion, what determines a large part of our "intelligence."
13:57
There's a lot of thought that is not languages based.
so you say, but what do you think?
Or rather symbolic
Most game intelligence (chess, sports) is non-symbolic
Also:
....
language is an abstraction over thought. it is the use of metaphors for getting our thoughts into others' heads
How about sticking them apples in you pipe and smoke it.
Not all abstraction is symbolic
Animals other than humans have faces. It doesn't take language to make that abstraction (language helps in describing it to blind people)
but we still use language to communicate it. just because we don't have to doesn't mean we won't
14:02
Sez you
Sure language is great but it's not everything
don't tell that to our members, they'll start using other SEs
Oops
Ok, ok ... guys that's why I put the quotation marks around intelligence :-)
Just to be contrary, in wondering how to tell ELU users. Maybe a question titled: "Language is crap! Your questions are of no use! uncontrolable sobbing"
But it'll be closed quickly because duplicate/gen ref
By you @MattE.Эллен. I see right through your subterfuge. And I didn't need language for that. I can read you like a book. And the title is "can you stop looking at me like that? It's making me very uncomfortable."
Happy Birthday @MattE.Элленq!
14:14
For he's a golly good fellow. For he's a golly good fellow .... For he's a golly good fellooooow, that nobody can deny @MattE.Эллен
*gello
You just denied it!
Golly he's a good fellow
14:42
I prefer the original.
15:21
Hello @KitZ.Fox.
15:44
thanks guys!
Happy birthday, @Matty.
@ABeautifulMind Hello. I still haven't finished my reply. It's there though. A whole paragraph sitting in my drafts folder.
thanks @KitZ.Fox :)
15:59
@MattE.Эллен ¿Cuanto años?
tengo treinta y cuatro años
@MattE.Эллен Hey! Feliz cumple!
16:15
gracias!
@KitZ.Fox Take your time. I just drank coffee, then soya milk, then milk, all hot, and talked to myself three times while drinking.
@MattE.Эллен What's this pretentious use of non-English in this chat?
Ah I just got an email from someone in Brazil.
It's actually Friday the thirteenth now, cool.
@ABeautifulMind porque español es muy bueno
I went up from 60 kg to 70 kg then down to 65 kg then down to 62 kg and now I target to go down further to 60 kg.
Maybe when I reach 60 kg again, miracles will start to happen.
@Cerberus Depression can lead to either undersleep or oversleep. Undersleep or oversleep can also lead to depression. Sounds cool eh?
@Robusto Thanks. I know it is a scale, but somehow I always use machine.
@terdon At my age it's more like crumpleaños.
6
@Robusto ah, funny self effacement. Nice!
16:28
They should make it able to downstar a comment, just like downvotes.
So if it gets one star and one downstar, it gets nothing.
@Robusto curmudgaños even.
The only Spanish I know is from the song Granada. I am not even sure it is in Spanish.
@MattE.Эллен What plans do you have tonight? Will you have a special dinner with someone?
@ABeautifulMind I'm going to the hackspace. I will bring treats
@MattE.Эллен Is it a party for hacking?
@ABeautifulMind it's a pseudo-anarchic maker space
lots of interesting people who like creating things
16:36
I never liked Oxford University for anything. Cambridge is always better, except maybe for the dictionaries.
Well, for one, Cambridge does not sell any non-English dictionaries.
Wow, four people in the math room recently broke up, interesting.
in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, 13 mins ago, by Alex M.
> In capitalism, man exploits man. In communism, it's exactly the opposite.
@JohanLarsson Old joke.
@JohanLarsson So The New Yorker has an article this week about how great life is in Denmark and, to a lesser extent, the rest of Scandinavia.
I think Norway is the greatest in Scandinavia.
@JohanLarsson What about the women?
Denmark has the highest taxes in the world. Sweden #2
@ABeautifulMind They are the opposite sex?
@ABeautifulMind How much better do you feel today than last time we spoke?
16:50
@JohanLarsson I cannot remember the last time we spoke, but it goes up and down. But right now, I am not too bad.
Good!
What is your plan for making things even better tomorrow?
I am targeting to be totally well by the end of next year, which is what I have said for a few years.
@JohanLarsson I will think about it tomorrow, because I am not sure how I will feel when tomorrow comes. That is how uncertain it is.
I never liked the beatles much.
You said you liked Norway.
17:56
Hi everyone!
Is "leaving here" grammatically correct and common? Should it be "leaving from here"? Is there a difference?
18:07
I'm leaving here and never coming back. Sounds fine to me :-)
It depends on the context.
@Szabolcs "Leaving from here" implies the exact geographical spot you're standing on, and suggests that this would be the starting place for some trip.
does it make sense to say I am livid with rage?
Sure, why not?
@Robusto So they're not interchangeable in any situation then?
I looked up in the dictionary and livid alone seems to mean angry or enraged. but in Romanian it just means a color, so you have to say with rage or with anger or something
18:09
@GeorgePompidou Usually the rage is implied, however.
@Robusto Yes, that makes sense.
does it imply a color too?
@Szabolcs Just say "leaving here." You'll be fine.
@GeorgePompidou Black and blue, purplish, that sort of thing.
yeah!
okay so it is the same in English
can you be livid from like working out or having a bruise?
not really
18:11
or embarrassment
ah
It's not a color in English
@GeorgePompidou You can be, but it's not the common usage. You would describe the bruise as livid to call attention to its color. But you being enraged would not be suggestive of a color, even though it means exactly that.
it's weirdly different than in Romanian, wherein it simply implies that your face is a certain color
and you'd have to explain why it's that color.
anyhow, I am livid with rage from this joke of a tax "credit"
Livid is more like colorful
@Robusto I know I'll be fine, but I stopped trying to improve my English years ago, and it's been on the decline since then :) I want to pay more attention to what I say. Now English is the language I speak the most. You'd think that'd help but actually it has the opposite effect: I now lost interest in speaking correctly and started making up my own language when more convenient ...
18:13
I wrote that I spent $28,000 on tuition for school and $1,600 on books when the application informed me that there's a tax credit for these things.
and they give me $1,000 back only.
what is this a tax credit for ants?
what a slap in the fucking face
this country sucks and I can't wait to go to Germany.
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong in Germany?
tax credit. and I get almost what I spent on just my books.
it'd have been far better to not even offer it.
Things are much worse here.
I wouldn't have felt so abandoned by my government.
If you give up on improving your language you are giving up on improving how to think clearly @Szabolcs
18:16
yes, but this is my plight Jasper
and it is what I am angry about.
I'm out.
@GeorgePompidou I am not saying you should not complain.
Complain all you like. That's what I do anyway.
@Robusto definitely not me getting a feeling that the government of the country isn't looking out for its people and isn't making a shred of effort to get more people educated.
18:17
That's free enterprise
@GeorgePompidou Did I tell you I wish to be reborn in Germany my next life?
even if the gestapo comes and takes me away for being a Jew, at least school is free and healthcare is widely accessible.
I guess you and I have a lot in common, lol.
not at all actually. I'm just a guy with a single life and will die when I die.
We both like Germany and we both like to complain, lol.
18:19
I'm taking it upon me to make this life the best it can be. and you are not.
How are you and your gf?
eh, we'll be apart for a very long time.
@GeorgePompidou I am. You assumed I am not.
I haven't had time to formulate thoughts on her and being away from her for a while. because my job is really the most important thing right now.
and it's really fast paced and time consuming
It can't be that time consuming if you're here :-)
18:21
I just wanted to know if I am livid with rage or just livid about these taxes.
it's very important.
With rage is correct
@infinitesimal So Ted and Matt have the same birthday?
Indeed
Exactly
@infinitesimal I wonder why people seem to think I am not trying to make this life the best it can be.
They have not been exposed to it
18:24
I guess I am very easily misunderstood in this chat.
you just seem to pity yourself in many of the things you say.
surely one who pities himself cannot be making the best of his situation.
Another thing is why people seem to think I am trying to attract attention, whenever I delete my account and stuff like that.
They need to mind their own accounts not yours
that's just the impression you give.
In real life I have been thought to sexually harass someone by simply saying a five letter word.
18:27
You know you are trying your best, that is all that matters. @ABeautifulMind
@infinitesimal I think that this idea is completely wrong ... I speak three languages fluently and I am capable of writing mathematical proofs in either of them. (In fact I do it in two of them.) The fact that I don't conform to the prescription of some English grammar book doesn't mean that I am not thinking clearly.
You didn't tell me that. @Szabolcs
I apologize
@infinitesimal What for? We're just chatting :) Sorry if I appeared too harsh, I didn't mean to!
I was just making a general observation about the relationship between language and thought :-)
Yes, you're probably right in that logical thinking and clear language are connected. It's not true that thoughts are independent of language.
18:34
I have recently rekindled my interest in this topic.
There are some studies on the relationship between thinking or easily understanding certain concepts and language.
These tend to be controversal because it's often too easy to (mis)interpret them as "one language is inferior to another" or as "speakers of one language think less clearly than others"
Yes, it is controversial due to its relationship to "intelligence"
The principle of linguistic relativity holds that the structure of a language affects the ways in which its respective speakers conceptualize their world, i.e. their world view, or otherwise influences their cognitive processes. Popularly known as the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis, or Whorfianism, the principle is often defined to include two versions. The strong version says that language determines thought, and that linguistic categories limit and determine cognitive categories, whereas the weak version says only that linguistic categories and usage influence thought and certain kinds of non-linguistic...
Check the study about Chinese and counter-factuality.
@infinitesimal Thanks for the link. I need to go back to work now, but I'll bookmark it and will read it later tonight.
Thanks for the chat :-)
Then there's the idea that the Hungarian "Martians" were so successful because they spoke a language that allowed them to think differently. As a native Hungarian speaker I can tell you that this is not true. That other languages of Europe left a strong mark on Hungarian, and we Hungarians probably think in a pretty similar way to other Europeans :)
Really have to go now!
Later pal
19:06
@Szabolcs Yeah S-W is very simplistic.
Bye!
19:23
Yo @KitZ.Fox still at work?
@Cerberus What is "S-W"?
19:34
@Szabolcs Strunk and White?
19:51
@Szabolcs Sapir–Whorf.
From your own link.
@Cerberus Geezis!
I mean I thought it was what I said, lol.
@ABeautifulMind Yes, in a crappy meeting.
20:10
@Cerberus In some very special cases language clearly determines thinking. I'm specifically thinking of mathematics. Using the right notation (notation is a sort of language) is often half the solution of the problem. But this sort of thing doesn't apply directly to spoken natural language.
Jez
Jez
20:29
hello
i want to order a pizza and some kebab meat to go on it, but i know it's wrong.
we need to evolve DNA that lets us eat this stuff healthily
Hola, mis amigos.
And everyone else too.
So not everyone is your amigos?
Nobody is everybody's friend.
Heh, me got another Enlightened badge. Ooh, and a Guru. Just like Christmas in February.
Jez
Jez
20:54
well i ordered the pizza and donner meat
:-)
weight: 90kg and rising
Jez
Jez
21:11
> “I understand you had a light coronary; … that you are attached to many sensors connected to panels and alarms continuously monitored by a nurse, and cannot in consequence turn over in bed. No doubt this is cybernetical. But it all makes me most abominably sad.”
I don't understand the word "cybernetical" in that context
or-fucking-gasmic
this meat and this pizza
Like a Cyberborg.
"Cybernetics", to define the study of control and communication in the animal and the machine.
The sensors being the machinery
 
1 hour later…
22:39
@Szabolcs I agree.
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