English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:00 AM

What is waiwai doing awake? Isn’t he at Cambridge studying or something?

:_)

Well, I've fixed that one. As for students, well -- things can't have been very different for you? I know I kept really odd hours. Anyway, I'm off to bed!

tchrist

Night!

Robusto

12:59 AM

@tchrist Looks like you solved it already. Good job.

@AndrewLeach What's this about Illinois?

Cerberus

4:28 AM

@tchrist Ah, well done. How did you do it? Is it the !important?

Andrew Leach

6:23 AM

@Robusto cogcomp.cs.illinois.edu/page/demo_view/SRL

2

Matt Эллен

8:49 AM

morning all

RegDwigнt

10:05 AM

@Robusto but that's the thing. I couldn't have expected less from you, and yet you undercut it.

Matt Эллен

10:27 AM

Should I "feature" the community ads meta post?

seems like noöne's paid it any attention

or maybe noöne wants community ads

Jez

10:47 AM

hey guys, i would be most appreciative if you would vote up this question:

-1

Q: Putting together a presentation on moving to git from TFS?

I'm probably going to be giving a presentation to my company on the benefits of moving to Git from a centralized TFS setup. I know that I massively prefer Git because of its speed and IMHO the improved workflow of the easy branching model, but what are the best (most convincing) arguments you ha...

I don't think it is "too broad" as I have clearly specified what kind of advice I need

I think the users there are being ridiculously harsh and overzealous in closing questions

Matt Эллен

oh, don't worry about gnat. he does that to everyone.

Jez

well could you vote it up?

i don't like it being below zero :-(

it's a perfectly good question

Matt Эллен

I'm reading it.

@Jez tbh, I don't know what kind of questions people like on Programmers anymore

I stopped going a couple of years ago because it was too wishy washy

I don't understand how you've got two favourites but no up votes... people are weird.

Jez

please vote it up

you dont think it's a bad question, surely

and i could really do with some answers

building a business case for the transition is hard

1

Office Politics

Proposed Q&A site for people who wish to discuss and get advice on the everyday politics of the office environment; dealing with colleagues, management, etc. Also, how to create convincing presentations and arguments, and effect change in your company.

Currently in definition.

i've just created that proposal too, as Programmers doesn't seem to be interested in it

Matt Эллен

gnat's point is that your question is asking how to explain something to someone, which is apparently off topic, according to that meta post. The suggestion in the linked answer is that you should figure out what you don't understand and ask about that. How do you think the people at programmers will be able to make a business case to people they don't know?

@Jez The Workplace might cover that

Jez

11:01 AM

good point

i thought i'd seen something like that before lol

I still think Programmers is a better place for the question, though. it's a technical question

Johan Larsson

@Jez The best argument for using git is that git works.

Jez

there's way too much aggression in closing questions on SE, Programmers, etc. now

it's really annoying that the powers that be encouraged people to close questions willy nilly

it's causing good questions to get closed.

Johan Larsson

Takes very little of renaming files etc to get huge bs with TFS & SVN

Jez

huge bs?

Johan Larsson

have an upvote

Jez

11:03 AM

thanks

and you, @MattЭллен?

Johan Larsson

huge bs means having to wrestle with version control

Matt Эллен

yeah. I would like to know, too, so why not?

Jez

thanks!

Johan Larsson

With git I tend to wonder how it manages to figure out and get all things right.

With tfs & svn I wonder how it manages to get simple things wrong.

The ci in tfs is nice though. A bit slow but maybe that is due to how our it have set things up.

Jez

ci?

Johan Larsson

11:06 AM

Continuous Integration. gated check in

Matt Эллен

maybe I should hack together a gated checkin thing... only push to remote if all the tests pass!

Johan Larsson

it is really easy I can walk you through it

Worth it.

Matt Эллен

I don't use TFS

but thanks for the offer! :)

Johan Larsson

Build + all tests green is really nice

Matt Эллен

yeah

Johan Larsson

11:09 AM

We used to have stylecop also but I removed it because build got slow

Jez

@JohanLarsson but now that Git is incorporated into TFS2013, surely that argument is nullified?

Johan Larsson

Yeah should be. I have never used the git version control in TFS.

We asked it but there was 'no strong business case' for enabling git

Jez

spoken by someone who has never experienced the lovely workflow one gets once using git

Johan Larsson

I can find a case for using working version control but maybe that is just me

Jez

the speed, the lack of a need to setup stupid "bindings" like you do with TFS, the lack of messing around with shelvesets

the easy ability to switch from working on one bug to another by just stashing and checking out another branch in 10 seconds flat

Johan Larsson

11:13 AM

I don't use branching all the time. Git handles branching really nice though.

Jez

obviously, it's what it was designed for

Johan Larsson

Using a pull request model is probably good with new consultants etc.

Local commits are nice fo big refactorings.

Jez

12:01 PM

branching and merging in general is much nicer

Johan Larsson

how do you mean?

Jez

in git

fewer conflicts, git deals with conflicts nicer

Johan Larsson

what do you use for merging?

Jez

personally, i like p4merge

Johan Larsson

Have you tried the semantic merge thing

Jez

12:03 PM

but if you're using Visual Studio's git integration, most people will be using VS's merge tool

rebase interactive before merge should pretty much eliminate merge conflicts tho

Johan Larsson

I use the gitextensions plugin

Robusto

12:58 PM

@RegDwigнt You weren't half trying then. You're the slacker for not expecting less from me.

SmokeDetector

1:16 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: STOP BY MEANING URGENT by user104103 on english.stackexchange.com

Matt Эллен

@SmokeDetector fp

user4215

hi

"oh, the cheese tastes a bit too stale. i wonder when it expired." is it ok?

Hugo

@user4215 no, it tastes stale

user4215

what?

why is it wrong?

Hugo

cheese should taste fresh

unless it's blue

user4215

1:28 PM

no no...

I say a bit too stale.

That's my perception.

You got no say in this

Hugo

just stale enough?

I wouldn't normally use the word "stale" to describe cheese

stale is for things like bread

although it seems people do sometimes describe cheese as stale, I'd be more specific (e.g. too dry, too hard, too whatever it shouldn't be)

RegDwigнt

@Robusto thanks so much. Coming from you that means a lot. Must be my new-year present, I guess.

@Robusto here's an easy mnemonic: every day, move the clock a little bit to the left. Once you reach the end of the mantelpiece, start moving it a little bit to the right instead. Let me know how it works out for you.

Matt Эллен

or, if you carry on past the end of the mantle piece you know it's time to turn the clock back

Hugo

1:44 PM

what do you think of this question?

4

Q: What does “fleek” mean and when was it first used?

The word fleek is all over Twitter. The @lovihatibot Twitterbot routinely finds it in searches for "I love the word [X]" and "I hate the word [X]", in fact it's the third most hated word over the past 30 days. Similarly it regularly shows up in @favibot's searches for "[X] is my new favorite w...

meaning etymology slang

"closed as primarily opinion-based"

Matt Эллен

I like it. I answered it

Hugo

I think it can be answered non-opinionatedly, as Matt did

Matt Эллен

I feel like it'd be a conflict of interest if I reopened it, though, since I have something to gain by doing so

ElleStack

2:00 PM

Guys, I need help...and navigating this site is a nightmare. I've searched FAQ and Googled...where is my hat??? I earned a hat and wore it but it's gone. Do some hats have time limits... where should I ask this? Haha thanks

Sorry for interrupting...

Also: also reference to me earning the hat has disappeared.

Matt Эллен

the hats have gone

ElleStack

why?

Matt Эллен

yesterday was the last day of hats

ElleStack

and why the day after I earn one?

tchrist

tempus fugit

ElleStack

2:01 PM

haha

in plain English please...

Matt Эллен

15

Q: Hats are coming

Winterbash 2014 is on its way. It will run from 15 December 2014 to 4 January 2015. (The site isn't live yet.) For those are unfamiliar with the Winterbash hat dash, it is a time of festive fun and hats. Each person can earn hats. The criteria for each hat is available at the above site, althou...

discussion winterbash winterbash-2014

> It will run from 15 December 2014 to 4 January 2015

tchrist

o tempora o petasi

ElleStack

Ah okay, fair enough! Thanks for the help!

Hugo

@MattЭллен I'm going to cast a reopen because I'd like to see some good answers and I think it can be answered using "facts, references, or specific expertise". english.stackexchange.com/questions/215078/…

Matt Эллен

fair enough :) I hope it gets reopened.

Hugo

2:11 PM

Based on the wide usage, I think "fleek" does have a specific etymology and isn't a random sound "invented" everyday. It's certainly got something going for it -- this question has been viewed nearly 3,000 times in three weeks. I think this can be answered using facts, references, or specific expertise. — Hugo 7 secs ago

No, etymology questions are not off topic, but then again, most good etymology questions include an indication that the OP has knowledge of the word's definition and don't ask for both definition and etymology. Please pick one authoritatively answerable question and ask it. — SrJoven Dec 16 '14 at 13:34

has two upvotes

is there a problem asking for both a definition and etymology?

I'm sure there's plenty of good questions that ask for both

Matt Эллен

probably. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but it does ring a bell

Jasper Loy

Hats are finally over.

Matt Эллен

for now!

hi @JasperLoy

Jasper Loy

@MattЭллен Hello. I am still feeling bad. I hope I can make genuine progress this year.

tchrist

@Hugo I think it was closed because of prejudice against Twitter.

Matt Эллен

2:18 PM

@JasperLoy I hope you do, too. what are your plans for the day?

Jasper Loy

@MattЭллен I will just do lots of thinking and sleeping for the next few days.

Matt Эллен

sounds good

Hugo

@tchrist yeah, Twitter and all their non-standard babble

KitFox

Morning.

Matt Эллен

Hello!

Jasper Loy

2:21 PM

Hi @KitFox.

KitFox

Don't forget to drink water too, @Jasper.

And hello.

Hugo

@tchrist I just realised your handegg question asked for both meaning and etymology

102

Q: What’s a “handegg”?

What’s a handegg? NOTE: This question is primarily related to the etymology of a compound noun which is not in The Dictionary. There is a hat this year called “Handegg”, given out for a posting that reaches a score of +7. But here’s the problem: the word handegg does not occur in the Oxford En...

etymology slang history connotation winterfest

tchrist

They’re calling for wind chills of 40 below across the top of the country. Meanwhile, the chinooks (which apparently means "snow eater" in some Amerind tongue) are moving in here today, jacking us up 50 degrees in a few hours.

KitFox

Yeah, we're supposed to be -30 tonight.

I'm trying to decide whether I want to stay in town.

Hugo

should "third most hated word" be hyphenated?

Matt Эллен

2:30 PM

I don't think so

Cerberus

2:43 PM

Hmm.

Not sure.

And, if it should be, how?

tchrist

Yeah.

Cerberus

One or two hyphens? Where?

Matt Эллен

third most hated-word

Cerberus

Noooo.

Evil boy.

tchrist

> There’s a special prize for whoever comes in second to last. The second-to-last prize is a bag of coal.

Matt Эллен

2:44 PM

third-most hated-word

tchrist

It is a heavy use.

Cerberus

Yeah.

tchrist

Because it commits you to a lot of hyphens.

Cerberus

I tend to leave it out where it isn't absolutely necessary.

KitFox

third most–hated—word

Matt Эллен

2:45 PM

absolutely-necessary

Cerberus

I am that old fashioned.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox makes you seem out of breath :D

KitFox

third...most—hated–word.

tchrist

It is difficult but not impossible to come up with a case where you actually need to use a hyphen before an adverb + adjective combination, particular when that adverb ends in -ly.

KitFox

third mostly hated word

tchrist

2:47 PM

> Beer is the world's most widely consumed alcoholic beverage,[2] and is the third-most popular drink overall, after water and tea.[3] It is thought by some to be the oldest fermented beverage.[4][5][6][7]

I guess third-most hated word is a middling possibility.

So, who here cannot start an independent clause with else? It would be identical to otherwise in that position.

Matt Эллен

thirdly most heated ward

tchrist

I’ll wait for you to chime in.

For a while.

Or else I’ll just make something up.

I remember being smacked down for using elsewise like this as a child.

KitFox

I am so confused right now.

tchrist