English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

1:00 PM

So much for the military–industrial complex. Now we have a criminal-justice–financial complex.

You know what? If you think this person has done something wrong, why not fine him? I'm fine with fines. But they shouldn't be related in any way to the court proceedings or others tasks of the justice system.

Matt Эллен

fines Cerberus

tchrist

Here is the earlier exposé.

Cerberus

The fines go to the central government, which may use them to fund the justice system, why not. But there shouldn't be a direct link. We have this evil "Justice" minister and his crony who want to make prisoners pay for prison too.

tchrist

@Cerberus A fine is often part of the penalty. These are extra-legal fees.

Cerberus

1:02 PM

@MattЭллен No thanks, I'm fine.

Which is different.

@tchrist Exactly.

refines Cerberus

Not sure what you mean by "extra-legal".

Illegal?

tchrist

If the fine for armed robbery is $10k and 5 years in jail, that should be the extant of its cost. It never is.

Cerberus

1:03 PM

Exactly.

tchrist

I mean that it is outside the prescribed fine.

The law says you pay this and that penalty.

But in point of fact, you pay a great deal more than that.

Cerberus

We do have court fees, but they are fixed. But I don't think we have any court fees in criminal cases, only civil (I think/hope).

tchrist

That is why it is extra-legal.

It is not part of the law.

Cerberus

Right.

Court fees are in the law here, though.

tchrist

Which means it is not subject to review, or public scrutiny.

So it keeps growing and growing.

Cerberus

1:04 PM

Parliament decides on court fees here.

tchrist

And the people least able to pay are the ones hit with these.

So when they can’t pay, they go to jail. Which racks up still more debt.

Scandalous does not begin to describe it.

However, atrocity might.

Cerberus

And the evil Justice minister mentioned above of course wanted to raise court fees dramatically. Luckily, the lawyers protested, they even held sit-ins at Parliament. And there was general outrage all over society, so it didn't happen.

tchrist

The criminal injustice system.

> In Augusta, Ga., a judge sentenced Tom Barrett to 12 months after he stole a can of beer worth less than $2.

In Ionia, Mich., 19-year-old Kyle Dewitt caught a fish out of season; then a judge sentenced him to three days in jail.

In Grand Rapids, Mich., Stephen Papa, a homeless Iraq War veteran, spent 22 days in jail, not for what he calls his "embarrassing behavior" after he got drunk with friends and climbed into an abandoned building, but because he had only $25 the day he went to court.

Cerberus

How is it even possible for judges to send people to prison who cannot pay, then? I mean, it is also possible in Dutch law, but only if the prosecutor can prove that the defendant can easily pay but refuses to.

tchrist

Word to the wise: don’t forget to bring a few grand in cash if you ever have to appear before a judge.

Cerberus

1:07 PM

@tchrist Yeah, that's bad.

tchrist

Increasing court fees punish the poor.

It’s a crime, man.

> These fees — which can add up to hundreds or even thousands of dollars — get charged at every step of the system, from the courtroom, to jail, to probation. Defendants and offenders pay for their own arrest warrants, their court-ordered drug and alcohol-abuse treatment and to have their DNA samples collected.

> They are billed when courts need to modernize their computers. In Washington state, for example, they even get charged a fee for a jury trial — with a 12-person jury costing $250, twice the fee for a six-person jury.

> In Allegan County, Mich., Frederick Cunningham pleaded guilty to forging a prescription for pain medication and was told to pay $1,000 in "court costs." Testimony from a court official in a case where Cunningham challenged his fees shows that $500 reimbursed the program that paid for the impoverished man's court-appointed attorney and $500 helped pay for the costs of running the county courthouse.

That’s fucking robbery.

State-sponsored theft.

Cerberus

> De kosten voor een procedure bij civiele zaken en bestuursrechtelijke zaken betaalt u in het algemeen zelf. Behalve als de rechter beslist dat de verliezende partij deze kosten moet betalen. Een strafzaak kost u geen geld. Behalve als u een advocaat wilt inschakelen.

tchrist

It’s also unconstitutional to charge for a court-appointed attorney.

@Cerberus At least you guys don’t charge for the “can’t afford an advocate” situation.

So if you can’t afford an attorney, we will appoint one for you and then bill you for that privilege.

Cerberus

"You have to pay your own legal expenses, including court fees, bailiff, lawyer, and witnesses, in civil and administrative cases, except if the court decides that the losing party must pay for the winner. A criminal case never costs you any money, except if you employ a lawyer." (But you can get a public defender for free if you're poor, and judges have lots of discretion, they are much less passive than in common-law systems, so you don't always need one.)

@tchrist No, normally you have to pay for your own attorney here. But not if you are very poor.

tchrist

> This month, the governor of Colorado signed a law that tells judges they can't send people to jail simply because they're too poor to pay fines and fees. The action came after the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado challenged the practice of courts in three Colorado cities.

Cerberus

1:14 PM

Good.

tchrist

> One example was a case in Westminster. Jared Thornburg was ticketed for making an illegal left turn. He went to court and the offense was dropped to driving a "defective vehicle," a ticket with $165 worth of fines and fees. The day before he was to start a job at Taco Bell, he says, he was arrested for not paying the fines, which had increased to $306. He was sentenced to 10 days in jail.

> Benton County collects just a fraction of all the fines and fees it's owed. But the county still collected $13 million in 2012 — making it one of the state's top revenue producers.

> There is some debate in Benton County about whether that's a good thing. Court officials note with pride how much money they raise. But local police chiefs say money goes out, too. It costs the police departments about $65 a day to keep someone in jail for not paying their fines.

“Officials note with pride”

So there’s even an application fee to obtain a public defender for those who are too poor to pay for an attorney!!

And you have fees both for the public defendant and for the fricking procecutor himself!

I detect a conflict of interest here big enough to drive an aircraft carrier through.

And not a small one, either.

Now the next time that you hear about the incarceration rate in America being extraordinarily higher than the rest of the civilized world, follow the money. This is a revenue stream.

Will Hunting

@Zoe I read your messages, thanks.

Zoe

@WillHunting What do you think of the analogy? Would love for you to come to The Upper Room to discuss :)

Will Hunting

@Zoe Hmm, I need to think about it, nothing to say now.

Zoe

@WillHunting Alright

Cerberus

1:23 PM

@tchrist Wow, that is a lot of items!

Most of those fees are included in "court fees" here, which usually have a maximum of about €80 for poor people.

Except in criminal cases, where there are no fees.

tchrist

They make no distinction here.

Cerberus

Fines are probably criminal law.

tchrist

They should be.

If a crime includes a fine, that should be all you pay, because it is written in law.

But it does not work out that way.

Cerberus

Yeah.

Defending in a civil case should also be cheaper.

And winning a case should also be cheaper.

tchrist

In point of fact, people wrack up thousands of dollars in debt that can take years to pay off even for petty violations that have tiny fines associated with them, like $25 or $40 fines.

Cerberus

1:26 PM

But so there is change in the air?

tchrist

In larger and longer cases, multiple the fees and time by ten, and you have people with criminal debt lasting decades.

I don’t know.

Cerberus

What with this thing the governor of Colorado did?

Will Hunting

I have to reinstall Linux on my desktop because it just didn't boot into the OS. Microsoft Windows is still better!

tchrist

The Colorado government tried to do something about it.

Cerberus

@WillHunting Aww poor Jasper. But people have problems with Windows too, you know.

tchrist

1:27 PM

But petty bureaucrats everywhere will forever try to get around it to put money into their own coffers.

And Colorado is only one state.

Will Hunting

@Cerberus Once I learnt how to use my computer properly, I never had problems with Windows, not even one!

Cerberus

> $500 helped pay for the costs of running the county courthouse. Those costs include the salaries of court employees, for heat, telephones, copy machines and even to underwrite the cost of the county employees' fitness gym.

That is hilarious.

tchrist

Places like Colorado and Wisconsin are accounted progressive states only so long as we keep the Plutublicans out of office. As soon as they get the statehouse, all our good works are undone by the whack-jobs. Look at what happened to Wisconsin. Just horrible.

Right now, the blue party holds the reins in Colorado, which is the only way this law got passed.

In Wisconsin, long considered progressive, the red party has been annihilating collective bargaining rights and much more. It’s criminal. Depressing.

@Cerberus Taxation without representation.

Cerberus

Most unfortunate.

tchrist

Like hotel taxes.

Cerberus

1:32 PM

So is the situation much better in places like New York or San Francisco?

tchrist

Not at all.

Cerberus

Even though they're supposed to be very liberal?

tchrist

Particularly in New York, there is collusion between the courts and the executive branch to extort extra-legal moneys from corporations to the tune of BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars.

Cerberus

Huh?

Can't their legislature just impose those taxes, then?

tchrist

@Cerberus Yes, big write-up here. I’ll try to summarize.

> A $9 billion settlement in June between BNP Paribas and five different regulators for circumventing sanctions on Iran and Sudan almost fell apart, according to a Reuters report, when New York’s governor, Andrew Cuomo, demanded a bigger slice of the action. The governor and the state attorney also clashed over the distribution of $613m from a settlement by JPMorgan Chase.

> In August New York disclosed in a budget report that it had received a total of $4.2 billion from settlements so far this year.

This is racketeering at its worst, and it is purely governmental. It’s an immense extortion racket.

> Eric Holder, the attorney-general, announced that criminal prosecutions of companies resulted in the Justice Department collecting $5.5 billion in direct payments and played a part in the collection of another $2.6 billion by other federal agencies, states and designated recipients.

> But the idea Mr Holder was putting over—that prosecutions can be treated as a government profit centre—is gaining ground. In February Manhattan’s federal prosecutor, Preet Bharara, announced that his office alone had, over a fiscal year that differed slightly from Mr Holder’s, collected $2.9 billion.

So this is all now a “government profit center”.

Which ties in with the horrible fees levied upon the poor by the criminal injustice system.

> Vast amounts are also being scooped up as civil fines. A report by The Taxpayers Against Fraud Education Fund, an interest group based in Washington, DC, found that since 2012 state and federal authorities have received $20 billion from settlements tied to a single law, the False Claims Act, signed by Lincoln in 1863 to protect the government from being ripped off by suppliers fitting out the Union army.

> The return to the Justice Department on these sorts of cases, often started off by whistleblowers who receive a share of the settlements, is 20:1, says Patrick Burns, co-executive director of the fund. That makes pursuing them attractive: “We are on the edge of a new era of incentivised integrity programmes.”

> The office of Rhode Island’s attorney-general recently bought the building next door to its headquarters, adding to a statewide shopping spree by law-enforcement institutions that included squad cars, tasers, rifles, a police station and the replenishment of underfunded police pensions. Footing the bill is Google, which chose to pay $500m, split between the state and the federal government, to settle claims arising from its acceptance of ads for prescription drugs from Canada.

I bet the Germans wouldn’t be so unhappy with Google if they could arrange for some sort of extortion scheme to make Google pay for a bunch of stuff.

Note that these are all voluntary settlements.

Which means that the details are almost never revealed.

And there is no proof of guilt.

> “Contrary to the conventional wisdom,” write Margaret Lemos and Max Minzner in an article in January’s Harvard Law Review, “public enforcers often seek large monetary awards for self-interested reasons divorced from the public interest in deterrence. The incentives are strongest when enforcement agencies are permitted to retain all or some of the proceeds of enforcement—an institutional arrangement that is common at the state level and beginning to crop up in federal law.”

So this is the same damned thing, but on a federal level.

It is no small wonder that the most civilly disobedient act alleged to have been committed by Jesus-ben-Joseph was whipping the tax collectors out of the temple.

@Cerberus It is difficult to understate the critical function of the Fifth Estate in shining the light of public scrutiny on these atrocities against good sense and fair practice. Muck-raking is too mild a term for what they are doing.

Cerberus

1:51 PM

@tchrist Okay, so the good part is that companies are actually seriously punished for breaking the law. In Europe, fines are often insignificant for large companies. However, those who issue the fines should never stand to profit from them in any way. And fines should never be treated like a source of income even by parliament.

And there should never be such a thing as a "settlement" between the government and some other party!

tchrist

And yet an out-of-court court settlement whose details are never revealed and where guilt is never proven seems a far cry from what should be happening here. It sets no legal precedent, and there is no public accountability.

Cerberus

Either you are guilty or you aren't, no deals.

tchrist

This seems like some sort of mafia shakedown.

Pay us and we won’t break your kneecaps.

> For example, in a product-liability case against Toyota last year, the facts of which were strongly contested, the company settled for $1.2 billion and agreed to a criminal charge of wire fraud (a catch-all provision) for misleading customers, in a variant of a non-prosecution agreement under which the charge is likely to be expunged in three years.

> Historically, when the government’s role in a part of the economy increases, so does its appetite for prosecution.

Cerberus

Exactly. And defendants might get off the hook too easily if the settlement is too low, or too difficultly (?) if it is too hight and they were under threat by some insanely high alternative punishment. Connected with this is the fact that lawful punishments should always be reasonable: American laws sometimes have punishments that are far too harsh, which results in those evil settlements. So it depends.

Oh, I have to go.

tchrist

> In June a federal prosecutor in San Francisco indicted Federal Express for shipping illegal prescription drugs. What makes the Federal Express case different is that the company has chosen to fight it out in court.

@Cerberus Me too. Bye.

Cerberus

1:57 PM

Bye!

tchrist

I’m sure that the SF prosecutor was planning on nabbing billions in a settlement from FedEx.

So that is your answer about SF. NY has already been given.

Cerberus

At least they're fighting the troll.

It is somewhat like patent trolling.

Which is based on legal uncertainty.

Which is partly caused by punishments or other sanctions that are potentially too harsh, unjust.

tchrist

Radix malorum cupiditas est and all that jazz. Or just plain Follow the money.

Ice Boy

Who you gonna call?

Cerberus

Moneta est!

Ice Boy

1:59 PM

Troll busters

tchrist

What would the Enlightened framers of the American Revolution / Civil War-against-Britain have made of all this shit?

Cerberus

Bye!

tchrist

I feel certain that there would be different Constitutional guarantees. This is unclean in the extreme.

tchrist

2:24 PM

0

A: Can we add English Language Learners to the "belongs on another SE site" list? (When will ELL move out of beta?)

tl,dr: Making ELL a migration target for non-moderators risks making matters worse, not better. There is great confusion about what makes a question suitable for migration. The main problem here is not the betaness one. That’s a red herring. Rather, the real reason the migration list is alw...

And then there is more of Kris’s standard nonsense, which I continue to be non-put-upping-with about:

@Kris You are being non-constructive again, Kris. Either stop speaking in gnomic riddles and say what you mean, or else stop commenting altogether. This is not a guessing game. Either you are here to help or you are part of the problem. Which you choose speaks more about you than it does of the question. In any event, you are not helping the OP what bit with this sort of nonsense. Cut it the heck out: if you won’t help, you can at least have the decency to say nothing. Right now, you are doing neither of those. — tchrist 1 min ago

Flagged.

I don’t fricking care. He’s a jerk, and he isn’t helping.

What our mod team chooses to do is up to them, but I trust their judgement.

I do not trust Kris to stop being an obstreperous pain in the ass. He obviously won’t accept that sort of guidance from me, but I doubt he would accept it from anyone else, either.

Robusto

Agreed.

On all counts.

tchrist

I’m sick of it. I have other tax collectors to cast out from the temple today.

But that boy needs a whuppin’.

Sometimes I really wish the hellban option were secretly available.

Hellbanning

Hellbanning or shadowbanning is a practice used by some online community managers for protecting a community against Internet trolls. The practice involves making a user invisible to all other users. From the hellbanned user's perspective, however, they seem to be participating normally in the community. The purpose of hellbanning is to make it impossible for other users to respond to a particular user by rendering their contributions invisible and thereby enforcing the community best practice of "not feeding trolls." It can be used to prevent trolls or malicious users from creating new accounts...

Trollery != Drollery. And he isn’t even marginally funny anyways.

Ice Boy

33 mins ago, by Ice Boy

Who you gonna call?

33 mins ago, by Ice Boy

Troll busters

tchrist

summons angels to wade in where mortal dread to fear

Ice Boy

skull pa troll to the rescue :-)

invite them to chat

tchrist

2:35 PM

Which circle?

Ice Boy

here

come to think of it where's George?

I felt bad for awhile, but he came back yappier than ever...

tchrist

Et in Arcadia ego.

Ice Boy

I ain't gonna chase no troll

they know where to find me

skull pa troll turned N(Ice Boy)

Robusto

> Clearly, we've exhausted what smart phones can do for us, and now come the baroque curlicues indicative of the post-maturity market.

tchrist

There are trolls — and then there are hulders. The funny thing is how seldom a troll is actually a hulda. Oh, it happens I know, but still, trollheim seems over-represented by the male of the species. Clearly they have mastered the knack of asexual reproduction.

Ice Boy

2:44 PM

}:-D))

mua ha ha ha

Robusto

2:56 PM

Why have a category "Not user replaceable"?

Why not just "User replaceable"?

Or "Not not user replaceable" (to be answered by "Not no" for a positive response) if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

Robusto

3:09 PM

Why the down vote? — Kris 54 mins ago

You of all people ask that? — Robusto 37 secs ago

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus I'm one step closer to an iPhone, lost another button on my Nokia.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Friends don't let friends buy iPhones.

Mitch

You mean a Nokia magically becomes an iPhone if it has fewer keys?

Johan Larsson

I'm not buying it, company policy is that iPhone is the only replacement I can get.

Ice Boy

I will not let you buy an iPhone

5 mins ago, by Robusto

@JohanLarsson Friends don't let friends buy iPhones.

Johan Larsson

3:17 PM

I'm not buying. Problem is my work phone, an old Nokia, is disintegrating.

I've been using it in a state of broken for over a year. Can't dial 7 cos button does not work.

Lost another button today.

Robusto

Just don't call numbers that have a 7 in them. Problem solved.

Johan Larsson

I could try to do hardcore and not have a working phone for a while. It will probably be replaced by force after a while.

@Robusto Ey, I have solved it. I call nummerupplysningen and have them connect me.

Or for numbers I call more than once adding to contacts solves the problem.

Robusto

nummberupplysningen? Is that anything like directory assistance?

Johan Larsson

It is a service where I can call and say I need to talk to X and the find the number for me. Pretty sure you have something like that also.

Robusto

It's called "directory assistance" here.

Mitch

3:23 PM

Use 3 and 4 to make 7.

Johan Larsson

:)

Ice Boy

what is an upply? is that "supply"?

Matt Эллен

six and one

Mitch

Don't use 2 and 5. Trust me, I have experience.

Robusto

Of course, a phone that won't roll 7 would be good to have at the craps table after you come out with a point.

Johan Larsson

3:24 PM

@IceBoy upplysning means information or helpdesk ish

Ice Boy

oh

thanks

Johan Larsson

one meaning

Ice Boy

interesting language

Robusto

What's with all the Islamo-flags in chat?

Johan Larsson

I can't see flags.

Ice Boy

3:26 PM

911 is approaching

Matt Эллен

who knows. the only way to find out is to go to the originating chat and I don't really want to find out

Robusto

Exactly.

Johan Larsson

Which chat is it?

Matt Эллен

the Islam.se chat room

Robusto

Some Islamic chat.

Mitch

3:27 PM

Jonx

Bronx

Junx

sox

/

Thbbbpt

3:28 PM

\

Matt Эллен

first hit for thbbbpt

Mitch

My middle name

Ice Boy

\

Mitch

I look cuter than I thought

Ice Boy

/

Matt Эллен

3:30 PM

@Mitch younger than I expected

Mitch

People always admire my unexpectedly youthful complexion.

Ice Boy

it is easier on the eyes if you put spaces between, no?

Johan Larsson

Do any of you guys have experience with beer brewing?

Mitch

But then I vomit over their shoulder.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Yes. I was given a course in it for one job.

Johan Larsson

3:32 PM

ah, a friend involved me in a hobby project building an automated nanobrewery

Matt Эллен

@Mitch typical baby

@JohanLarsson I guess you don't get a lot of beer from that ;)

Ice Boy

10^-9

Johan Larsson

Yeah, like most project it will prolly end up a fail that does not even happen :)

I don't even drink much beer, average is maybe one per week.

The project sounds fun though, decent geek potential.

Matt Эллен

aye

au revoir

Mitch

I have a femtobrewery. I left out a glass of grape juice this morning. I expect it to be slightly warmer this afternoon.

2

Johan Larsson

3:35 PM

The CAD will be boring though, look for components. Then not find 3D-models or even specs with dimensions.

@Mitch Close to a star, processing \

Not my star. Buit++

Johan Larsson

3:58 PM

@tchrist do you have skype/facebook? I have a personal thing.

hi @Mahnax

Hello!

How are you?

I'm well, thanks. Let myself sleep in a little. How about you?

Ice Boy

Fine, thanks. Sleep is good.

But a good sleep is even better :-)

Mahnax

4:09 PM

Absolutely.

Ice Boy

4:20 PM

@Mahnax We were arguing in the math room how Stewart being used in 90% of Canadian, and 70% of the US, universities is not good for the overall diversity of math.

How are you finding the book?

It was argued that the Physics content is its strongest selling point.

Since you are taking calculus based Physics at the same time your opinion would be appreciated.

Mahnax

Oh, I haven't opened the book yet…

So far, I have not needed to. I already know how to do the stuff we're doing in class right now.

I will report back in several months once I've used it a bit more, though.

Ice Boy

Thanks :-)

Will Hunting

4:42 PM

@Zoe To be honest, I don't think the analogy holds. I think my analogy of the abusive father holds. The discussion in the upper room has made me even more disgusted with the religion.

I have reinstalled my desktop, so now it is OK.

Still on Linux?

Yes, on Debian now.

OK.

@Alraxite I added three books to my reading list, so now I must study 12 books next year.

in Mathematics, 3 hours ago, by Will Hunting

Marsden: Calculus I, Calculus II, Calculus III
Cohn: Classic Algebra, Basic Algebra, Further Algebra
Rudin: Mathematical Analysis, Real and Complex Analysis, Functional Analysis
Lee: Topological Manifolds, Smooth Manifolds, Riemannian Manifolds

Alraxite

@WillHunting You'll buy them all or are some in the public domain?

Will Hunting

4:54 PM

@Alraxite I bought them all. They are also all on Russian servers. =)

Alraxite

@WillHunting I haven't heard of Marsden.

Will Hunting

I spent 1000 USD on them.

I won't buy any more books until I read all 12.

Should prepare me for GRE and quals.

Alraxite

I'm only familiar with Calculus book authors. Spivak is quite popular. Why didn't you buy his?

Also Apostol.

Will Hunting

@Alraxite His multivariable calculus is too thin.

@Alraxite That is a bit too expensive.

Alraxite

The go for Richard Courant.

Will Hunting

4:58 PM

@Alraxite Too ancient language.

@Alraxite Lang is good too.

Alraxite

Well, I haven't gone through any of them but I believe Courant if available for free.

And from what I've read is very exhaustive.

Will Hunting

All of them are, lol.

Marsden is a good choice too.

Alraxite

His multivariable book is about a thousand pages.

OK.

Will Hunting

Not really heard of, published in 1985 Marsden

Based on Berkeley lectures

Alraxite

Anyway, you can still download those two books to see how good they are for yourself

Will Hunting

5:01 PM

Yup, I have seen all of them actually.

I chose the books based on many weird reasons which I shan't say.

Mitch

Is the Marsden the new one that everybody is starting to use?

Will Hunting

@Mitch I don't think so. I think Stewart is the most popular.

Alraxite

OK. They are there at archive.org just so you know.

Will Hunting

@Alraxite Yup, thanks. I usually go to en.bookfi.org

Alraxite

Yes, but I thought you didn't download books illegally.

Will Hunting

5:03 PM

@Alraxite I do, just to see if I want to buy them.

Alraxite

Ah, okay.

Will Hunting

If I never can preview, I would not buy.

That is how pirate sites actually increase actual sales.

But many will disagree with me

@Mitch Today I made an appt to see the psychologist for some psychotherapy

@Alraxite Spivak, Lang, Apostol, Courant, Marsden are all the good calculus texts I can think of.

It's terribly hot here. I got sunburnt while walking

It is Sep 11. Fuck all terrorists!

hey

Rajneesh

Chandra Mohan Jain (11 December 1931 – 19 January 1990), also known as Acharya Rajneesh from the 1960s onwards, as Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh ( pronunciation ) during the 1970s and 1980s, and as Osho ( pronunciation ;) from 1989, was an Indian mystic, guru and spiritual teacher. His international following has continued beyond his death. A professor of philosophy, he travelled throughout India during the 1960s as a public speaker. His outspoken criticism of politicians and the political mind, Mahatma Gandhi and institutionalised religion made him controversial. He advocated a more open attitude towards...

Will Hunting

@MattЭллен I got told there I will go to hell if I don't believe.

Ice Boy

@Robusto have you seen this hit?

Robusto

5:17 PM

I'd be in the hospital.

Alraxite

I've been trying out NoScript and the only problem I have with it is that it doesn't seem to allow a Greasemonkey script to work on all sites.

It works on some and on others I'd need to run all scripts from the NoScript menu to make it work.

Will Hunting

@IceBoy Have you heard of Iceweasel?

Ice Boy

that is a "welcome to the jungle" type of hit

Alraxite

And what it does is that it changes the background colour on almost every site to grey.

Ice Boy

@WillHunting what is it?

Will Hunting

5:20 PM

@IceBoy It's a browser, lol.

Alraxite

So it gets annoying when a bright page pops up in your otherwise dim browsing session.

Therefore I think I'll just uninstall NoScript.

The End.

Will Hunting

uninstalling NoScript = installing Script

hey

@WillHunting I think it's by mozilla

Ice Boy

@WillHunting No, I haven't, sorry. Why?

Will Hunting

@IceBoy Thought I would tell you since you are Iceboy

Ice Boy

5:22 PM

lol

Will Hunting

I think I will eat some cornflakes now

Ice Boy

enjoy

Will Hunting

5:46 PM

Perhaps instead of saying welcome to elu, we should say get lost to raise the quality of questions here, lol.

Alraxite

@WillHunting Which browser do you use?

Right, you're gone. Never mind.

hey

@Alraxite which browser do you use?

aedia λ

@Alraxite You didn't ask me, but I use all the browsers!

Well, a lot of them, anyway.

Alraxite

@hey Firefox.

hey

@aediaλ Do you use safari?

Oh Iceweasel is better and it is also by mozilla.

Alraxite

5:59 PM

@aediaλ Hmm, any reason for that?

Chrome has the easiest solution to invert page colours. While FF has effectively none.

Which is one of the main reasons I'd switch to Chrome if I do.

hey

I always use chrome.

aedia λ

@Alraxite By choice I usually use Chrome and Firefox, but I use IE8 and IE10 a lot on work computers, and also sometimes Safari and Opera.

Alraxite

OK. That's a lot.

aedia λ

Firefox has some of the best developer add-ons, so if I had to pick one browser it would probably be Firefox

Alraxite

The same could be said for Chrome, really.

aedia λ

6:05 PM

Chrome is useful for syncing across my personal phone and desktop though so that's mostly what I use there.

Alraxite

Firefox too can do that. But I've never tried it.

aedia λ

I got so used to certain tools in Firefox I really haven't explored what's out there for Chrome.

hey

I don't what's problem with my firefox, it get crash instantly now a days

Alraxite

@hey Try creating a fresh profile or perhaps do a fresh install?

hey

I think i will do fresh install.

user116848

6:20 PM

Firefox is my favorite too

user116848

Good 'ol Firefox

Will Hunting

6:35 PM

@Alraxite Iceweasel.

Alraxite

@WillHunting Okay.

Will Hunting

@Alraxite It's really just Firefox with some modifications.

Alraxite

@WillHunting Hmm, so what's up with the Linux download link on the official Mozilla website?

Does that not work on Debian?

Or is that actually Iceweasel?

Will Hunting

@Alraxite Debian changes Firefox to Iceweasel because of some license reasons I think.

Alraxite

Hmm, OK.

Will Hunting

6:39 PM

@Alraxite Mozilla has its own version for Linux, which is not Iceweasel.

Alraxite

@WillHunting Does that not work on Debian?

Will Hunting

@Alraxite It does work on Debian as well!

Alraxite

Oh, OK. Any reason why you're using Iceweasel over that one?

Will Hunting

Because it comes by default, so might as well use it on Debian.

Alraxite

I see.

Robusto

7:19 PM

►

Thanks, Steve. Don't forget your meds next time, right?

Johan Larsson

7:45 PM

He retired long ago no?

Robusto

Well, not long ago.

In fact, he was kinda forced out. Fairly recently.

> On February 4, 2014, Ballmer retired as CEO and was succeeded by Satya Nadella; Ballmer resigned from the Board of Directors on Aug 19, 2014 to prepare for teaching a new class and for the start of the NBA season.

Mitch

9:05 PM

@WillHunting Oh right. I only just recently heard about Stewart (and how popular it is supposed to be). I have no idea never having seen it. I think calculus is just limits derivatives, area under the curve, done. and that's it.

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