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1:00 AM
Hello.
 
Tag! You’re it!
> Peaches fresh from the tree or in treats like pie, jam and ice cream have been enjoyed by people for a long, long time. But, until now, it was not clear just how long it has been. Scientists said on Monday an analysis of well-preserved ancient peach pits traces the domestication of this sweet fruit back at least 7,500 years to China's lower Yangtze River Valley in the vicinity of Shanghai.
 
1:21 AM
You are surprised to see pit there?
 
No longer will North American GMO foods be the only ones scorned by senseless European FUD panderers. Now they can rabble-rouse against the Chinese too for their shameless genetical manipulations. Let l’horticulteur de pêche avec le moins péché cast the first pit!
No, it is the only reasonable word.
The Brits cast stones.
We cast pits.
The article has a BrE traduction for the more insular readers.
I doubt many Americans recognize a “stone” as the thing we call a pit.
However, I bet the reverse is less unlikely, that more Brits would recognize pit used for what they stone.
 
Ah okay, I have always found the British word off. I didn't know you used pit, like us.
 
It’s the only reasonable word.
 
Indeed.
 
Boys have stones; peaches, pits.
 
1:28 AM
Stone sounds ignorant. But funny.
Boys have stones?
 
Cojones.
Aug 17 '12 at 2:12, by Cerberus
@tchr I should expect them to use stone? I'd personally not use pit, possibly because of that, or because I'd subconsciously avoid the Dutch word, which is, you guessed it, pit.
Déjà dit, with variations.
 
Ah, yes.
 
Oct 6 '12 at 0:50, by tchrist
Sep 3 at 15:24, by tchrist
@Robusto Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt. ―St Jerome, In Ecclestiasten Commentarius, I
 
And I even used @tchr, which I rarely do.
 
Especially when it is we ourselves who’re caught doing the antediction.
 
1:32 AM
Then it is a bit more difficult.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Remember when we talked about price differences?
 
@Cerberus I also accept Rabbi used vocatively.
 
So it is 47% more expensive in Holland compared to America. What gives?
Somewhat less if you include taxes. Still around 21% more expensive here if you subtract VAT from the Dutch price.
 
Support contract? Consumer protection laws?
I’m grasping here.
 
Or just some weird marketing scheme.
Because of tariffs, you can't easily import them from America, so the markets are separated by this, so they can differentiate prices.
The price difference is not caused by the tariffs, since we both import the phones from China, but the tariffs allow Apple / resellers to differentiate prices, which they otherwise couldn't.
The Iphone 6 Plus with 64GB storage is € 1050.
 
1:49 AM
@Mitch Bad science in cinema. A parsec is not a speed measurement.
 
> Patricia Davidson, author of The Shopaholics Guide to Buying Online, agrees that while some of the cost could be down to market size, it is also a cultural phenomenon. "The problem is that we put up with it. It's a rip off," she says.

When asked the crucial question - whether they plan to make a bigger profit margin on consoles sold in the UK - neither company is willing to answer.
@tchrist That's what I have been saying all along, but it still doesn't explain why our market puts up with it, especially in submarkets with good competition. The console market is not very competitive, it is oligopolistic. But the smartphone market is not, so why?
I will disregard all reasons proffered by sellers like Microsoft altogether: they have an interest in deceiving us, as the article notes.
 
@Cerberus Tariffs? Tariffs? What happened to the free market?
 
I know! It sucks.
But you have to pay like 40% extra if you buy anything from outside the EU here.
It's crazy.
I once ordered a pair of shoes from America.
 
Protectionistas. No wonder our trade balance sucks.
 
The tariff bill sucked.
I don't know what it is.
 
2:11 AM
@Cerberus Yeah price differences suck
But you know what else sucks? There is literally nothing interesting in Apple's three big announcements. Bigger screens! Pay with your phone! Watches! Who cares! Android had these things as much as 4 years ago!
I was really hoping Apple would have something exciting to show.
Something I could envy, until Google et al copied it.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't know, like what?
I am not surprised that I am not surprised.
 
@Cerberus Yeah I'm sure that accounts for some of the difference. Prices are higher because they are higher.
@Cerberus Well, I dunno. if I knew, I'd've built it.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah it doesn't answer the question; but at least it rejects some of the other potential reasons offered.
 
@Cerberus Well, the truth is probably a mixture of all the reasons.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm but surely you have a wish list for the Nexus 6, or whatever it shall be called.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't know, I think we are overlooking a couple of pretty important reasons.
 
2:15 AM
@Cerberus Hm. I have a completely unreasonable wishlist. But for the most part phones are fairly mature.
 
Yay! claps hands
The unreasonabler, the better.
 
@Cerberus I haven't stated all the reasons I think prices are higher, how do you know if I've overlooked one?
 
We have talked about this before.
And I still had the feeling important reasons were lacking.
 
well, what goes into a price: mfr cost, taxes, tarrifs, advertising, overhead for whatever local markets demand, and profit
shipping
transaction costs
etc.
all of those things will vary on a market-by-market basis
oh, and demand
and lower prices can reduce demand, since the price is part of the marketing. If it has a low price, it must be crap, right?
"you get what you pay for"
So once you factor in all the costs, you might still set a higher-than-needed price simply because people will pay it, i.e. the demand is there
And with certain products you can't just choose a different one that's mostly the same. For some people it isn't enough to have a cell phone, or an android phone, or whatever. It has to be a Samsung, or an iPhone, or whatever.
They aren't fully interchangeable.
So that keeps the prices higher
The manufacturers release the products on a timetable, but offset from each other, and the prices don't vary much throughout the year, so they stay stable; each mfr releases at approx the price of the competitor's release. They just don't compete on price. Esp when the carriers subsidize the phones.
 
Sure.
Still, there is considerable cross-elasticity.
They do compete on prices.
 
2:25 AM
There is, for purely rational consumers, which are rare, or non-existent.
 
Most people here do not buy subsidised phones nowadays.
 
They aren't competing on price... they compete on specs. The prices are virtually identical.
Anyway I have to run.
cya later
 
Not here.
Bye!
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So I still think most of this goes into profit. Look at how much Lego costs in Denmark (€228) v. Holland (€220) v. America (€154): shop.lego.com/en-US/The-Tumbler-76023?_requestid=3241387
Australia is somewhat cheaper (€200), and Canada is a lot cheaper (€162).
Norway is somewhat more expensive (€243).
England somewhat cheaper (€200). Spain and Portugal are cheaper (€190)! Why? Most of Europe is like Holland and Denmark.
Hmm I see some patterns.
Iberia, England, Germany, Italy, are somewhat cheaper. France, Benelux, Scandinavia are the most expensive. Australia is fairly cheap. North America is very cheap. Korea is the same as Holland/Denmark.
Part of North America's cheapness is explained by the exclusion of VAT / sales tax. But by far not all.
 
2:46 AM
@Robusto IKR! Bad math...it was 12 parsecs.
 
I'm off to bed gents.
Bye!
 
Later pal.
 
3:03 AM
Bye!
 
 
4 hours later…
7:07 AM
@RegDwigнt is it legal?
 
@tchrist Possibly. Pits tend to be smaller stones like cherry-stones rather than large ones like peach-stones. We might actually talk of pitted cherries, but peaches get stoned.
 
hey
Hello everyone
 
hey :-)
 
hey
:-)
 
7:40 AM
I went to see the psychiatrist just now.
 
how did it go?
 
I also made an appointment to see the psychologist for some cognitive behavioural therapy.
 
That's good
 
I asked for my meds to be reduced. Now I only take three tablets intead of four a day.
My desktop cannot boot into the OS anymore, time to reinstall. Either failing hardware, or linux sucks.
 
the powersupply to my raspberry pi is failing
also, I can't seem to get ssh to work on a different port and my modem/router won't let port 22 through for some reason
 
7:45 AM
I think I will start some running in Oct. I will stick to walking this month.
I just walked to the hospital and walked back just now.
 
running is hard. I have started running, but I can't run for very long before I get out of breath
 
You can try running slowly, very slowly, but just keep going.
I used to run 4km every day.
 
yeah, I am trying. I end up just walking quickly :D
 
Maria, that is, LG, runs much more than that every day, according to her blog.
I am still obsessed with Maria.
I guess it will stop when I meet someone else, lol.
Who knows? The psychologist I meet next time might be Maria.
 
nope
no they won't
@WillHunting my monitors are made by LG!
 
7:50 AM
Just now a mad woman was screaming at the mental hospital, lol.
 
she must be having a bad time
 
@MattЭллен You mean they won't stop?
 
@WillHunting I mean that noöne who is your psychologist will be your significant other
 
Anyway I emailed Maria twice but got no reply. Perhaps I will try one last time this December...
 
One day, maybe, your hopeless romantic nature might turn into a hopeful romantic nature, and you'll stop being attracted to women you know won't reciprocate, and find someone who will.
 
7:53 AM
I hope you meet your Maria soon too!
 
thanks :D
 
Cerberus has found his Mario!
 
:D that's good
 
Besides running, you can also try going to the gym and lifting weights.
 
well, I cycle to work every day
so I get enough exercise.
 
7:59 AM
hello everyone, what's the name of words which do not describe themself
 
words
the category is for the exception
autological words are the exception, so we have a word for that
 
that's it, thanks Matt
 
no worries
 
hey
8:29 AM
I thought apple will launch something like this
But they have done better job!
 
The iPhone 6 is better @hey?
 
hey
yes
 
icic
 
hey
I think they should not make it slim.
I was waiting for iwatch not for iphone, so don't care about phone.
@IceBoy What you think about iwatch?
 
9:02 AM
@cyril I have seen no law against it. Have you?
 
9:27 AM
@AndrewLeach - I've often wondered what happens to comments made to the user immediately before deletion (as with Anonymous today). Does the user still have access to them? It is strange to see such comments.
 
@medica I believe that the user can still see their deleted answer, in which case the comments will also be visible. But if not, and they ask "Where's my answer," then the comment is present and visible to those who can tell them where it went.
 
too broad:
0
Q: Words that changed meaning in past hundred years

VikramI am looking for a list of words that were used to mean something different from for what they are used now. some words are such that whose meaning has changed completely and some words have more than one meaning, but earlier one meaning was in popular use and nowadays another meaning is in p...

 
@AndrewLeach - That would make sense if a user can see their own deleted questions even without much rep. Early on, one of my answers was deleted, and when I tried to find it, all I saw was Alice and the notice that it didn't exist. Later, with more rep, I stumbled across it.

I know you're feeling no-nonsensy with Anonymous, but they can't learn if they can't see it. Might it be worth knowing for certain if they can see it?
@Hugo yes, voted to close.
 
@hey I think it is the next generation of new technology :-)
 
 
2 hours later…
11:21 AM
9
A: "Improve" treated as improper response to proper response to audit

Shog9As of right now, this is fixed: instead of a checkbox in the editor, you get two separate buttons in review to launch the editor: "Improve Edit" works the same way as "Improve" has for years, sans the checkbox: it lets you add further changes to the existing edit, then approves it and submits ...

 
> This question is protected to prevent "thanks!", "me too!", or spam answers by new users. To answer it, you must know what you are talking about. Look at the other answers that are up voted. They all disagree with you. Stop it.
 
I know what question that one was for.
 
Probably the one in the Hot Questions list.
We should just auto-protect anything that ends up there.
 
11:30 AM
Reg often does that.
 
it is often the best course of action
 
It’s raining. It’s been raining. And it’s still raining.
This is the anniversary of out 500-year flood.
Mother Nature seems to be throwing a birthday party for her previous disaster.
 
Zoe
11:45 AM
@WillHunting If you're here, pop in The Upper Room, I have a certain analogy for you. And you can decide if my analogy is fair.
 
It may snow tomorrow night. How . . . charming.
Oh, it’s already snowing just west of me.
 
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow...
 
winter is icumen in
 
12:08 PM
That’s the Continental Divide where it is currently snowing. It should not remain rain when it reaches me in these nether regions. But tomorrow night, it might.
 
In Nederland?
 
If Boulder, Colorado is in Nederland
 
@Cerberus Nederland is on the edge of the snow zone. Hard to quite see; they might be sleeting.
 
12:14 PM
@RegDwigнt lol
 
@MattЭллен Boulder is more than 3 kf below Ned.
 
@MattЭллен it's no longer proofreading. He specifically addressed Andrew's comment by removing that bit.
If only everyone were as mindful.
 
I'm so pleased that comment has proved useful.
 
Good job sir.
 
One wonders how many siblings he has who aren't his elder brother.
 
12:16 PM
@tchrist Funny.
It's about 12 degrees here at night.
 
@tchrist We've already established that Hans Brinker is a lie.
 
@Robusto That shall be the subject of a different question. StackExchange works best when you limit your question to one question per question.
 
Right, I forgot. That's what comes from being dazzled by a brilliant question and edit.
 
@Reg Does your company do interns?
 
@tchrist You mean in a sexual-harassment sort of way?
 
12:19 PM
Alas, not all questions are brilliant.
 
I ask because this whole intern thing wasn’t a thing when I was in school, and now everybody is doing it.
One of the things I asked during my interview process, where they mentioned having summer interns, is whether the kids got paid anything or whether they were freebies.
The frisbees are in the closet.
Gathering spaghetti.
 
huh?
 
@tchrist our company only does the needful.
The whole concept of interns is very different between different countries or even states. So you will have to be way more precise.
 
They also have tarts in the closet.
Do you take on university students during the summer at low- or no-pay as temp workers?
 
We have a couple students, whom we pay less, but who also only work like 10 hours a week.
 
12:25 PM
Today's Listening | Psychedelic / Trip Hop
 
Most of them go on to become proper employees. So higher salary but also 40 hours.
 
They must still be in school then, right? I think summer interns do work closer to 40, but that is forbidden during the academic term.
 
We are also in a very, very specific niche market, so we don't get that many students to begin with. Basically you must have a masters in compiler design to so much as be able to apply.
 
I don't know what "unpaid" means. That is not a thing here.
 
12:27 PM
@RegDwigнt Now that’s cool.
Unpaid is the evil that our Feckless Leaders do.
> Internships do not have special legal status: an employer cannot dodge the minimum wage simply by classifying a temporary worker as an intern. But there are some exceptions. Most countries with minimum-wage laws have carve-outs for public bodies.
> (That is why Barack Obama can employ hundreds of unpaid White House interns, even as he tweets about the need to raise the minimum wage.) Similarly, non-profit organisations usually get a free pass: charities are allowed to hire volunteers, which is how they classify their unpaid interns.
Isn’t that horrible?
 
Hundreds?
Where do they even fit in that thing?
 
That’s what it says.
 
We have unpaid internships!
 
@tchrist I guess that explains what they had to remove all the inner walls for.
 
It also puts employs too damned close to unpaid .
 
12:29 PM
But they usually pay you an "internship compensation", which is like €200/month.
 
To employ someone, I’d think one would have to pay them.
But I seem to wrong.
 
The inside of the White House, now able to fit OVER 9000 unpaid interns.
 
Not if people want to work for you for free...
If it looks good on their CV...
 
I didn’t know that we had photography when the Brits burned Washington.
 
12:30 PM
'i work for free' does look good on a cv...
 
@RegDwigнt So that's what it looks like from the inside?
 
@tchrist I think that would be the summer of 1927
 
@Cerberus I was under no impression you could just walk up to the White House, say you want to work for free and get inside, by the hundreds no less.
 
@ElendilTheTall "Internship at [prestigious employer]" does look good on one's CV here, horrible though it may be.
 
they shipped Calvin Coolidge off to North Dakota and renovated the place
 
12:30 PM
I thought you had to have been a Marine for 20 years at least to so much as be allowed to look at the thing.
 
@RegDwigнt There are probably 10,000 people yearning to work at the White House for free.
 
@Cerberus how is that even related to what I'm saying.
 
Yes, but do they speak English?
 
Not doubt the select 100 are thoroughly vetted & screened.
 
There are probably 10,000,000. That is not my point.
 
12:31 PM
I'm sorry, I missed it.
 
The Economist article whose URL I gave above is thought-provoking about the whole nasty business.
 
@Cerberus if so, that alone costs way more than paying them minimum wage for a year.
 
@RegDwigнt Yes. But you have to vet them anyway.
 
No. Not if you don't have interns.
 
@tchrist It is alas widespread...
 
12:32 PM
What the hell do you need hundreds of interns for.
 
@RegDwigнt If you have regular employees, those need to be vetted too.
@RegDwigнt To bring you coffee?
 
@Cerberus exactly. So why have interns.
 
@RegDwigнt One per congresscritterkin.
 
@tchrist haven't they got the memo that these days you need but one man to run a country into the ground?
 
If you count all three branches of government, there are apparently thousands of nubile young slaves in Washington, all unpaid.
 
12:34 PM
Then again that is quite literally their loss, not mine.
 
> Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. —Henry Kissinger
 
@RegDwigнt Because they are cheaper, ceteris paribus.
 
> “DON’T talk to the press. Have a good attitude. Always say yes. You are not here to change the world.” And ladies, please, “Do not put us in a position to remind or suggest what qualifies as proper attire.”
 
Nice.
 
12:36 PM
> In all, each summer between 20,000 and 40,000 interns work in Washington’s government departments, lobbyists, non-profit groups and firms.
 
@Cerberus the very existence of that image proves its pointlessness.
 
For free.
All for free.
 
@RegDwigнt Why?
 
@Cerberus Why would you need to come up with reasons? And for whom?
It's like making an image for "top 7 reasons you shouldn't like genocide".
 
Well, some nutcases are apparently planning to buy such a device.
 
12:37 PM
Exactly. So how is that image going to change that.
 
@RegDwigнt You and I know that.
@RegDwigнt It might sway some people, create awareness, etc.
 
Everyone's cleanly divided into fanbois and hators by now. Everything else is just noise. Facebook fodder.
 
Especially the angry triangle.
Naaahh people are switching away from Apple all the time.
And go off Facebook.
 
@Cerberus it might but it will not. It will be posted in echo chambers and circlejerks. That is its only purpose, too.
 
What if no one actually gives a fuck, and they just want a shiny interface that generally does what it's supposed to?
 
12:38 PM
> “The whole fashion industry would crumble without interns,” says one who spent four unpaid months working for a tyrannical photographer, who demanded that his drinks be served no warmer than 4°C.
 
@tchrist <holds up hand> guilty as charged. I hate 5C drinks
 
1. It clashes with mauve
2. It's not got its own youtube channel
3. It's sexist
4. Genocide excludes most of the letters of the alphabet
5. It affects global warming in poor countries
6. Only rich people can do it
7. Hitler
 
> Unpaid internships are becoming the norm. According to NACE, they make up nearly half the internships undertaken in America. “We presumed we were going to get paid,” says Lee Becker, a professor of journalism at Georgia University who earned money during stints on the Kentucky Post and the Wichita Eagle-Beacon in the 1960s.
By 1997 only 57% of American journalism students said they could find a paid internship. By 2010 the figure had fallen to 34%, where it has remained since. “These days, no one is going to pay if they don’t have to,” Mr Becker says. In Britain the National Council for t
 
@MattЭллен oh yeah like your M$ shit is any better, you Balmer boy. I'll stick with genocide, thank you.
 
I wonder whether the Economist would have run that exposé if they did not themselves compensate their own interns.
 
12:40 PM
I will never have to change the batteries, too.
 
@RegDwigнt ha! that's what they said about Regan
 
Apparently they have two programs, one at £6k per summer and the other at almost £10k per summer. They don’t say what the difference is.
 
@RegDwigнt How do you know?
If even a single soul can be saved, it's worth it!
 
@Cerberus Cthulhu saves! He might be hungry later.
 
@Cerberus by having been on the Internet long enough.
 
12:41 PM
@ElendilTheTall Then the world is a sad place than needs to be armageddoned!
 
I can never decide between playing Armageddon and Wrath of God. Wrath is normally less harsh.
 
@MattЭллен Really? Is it the reddish colour from the blood?
 
@Cerberus partly. also, the sounds of the screams
 
@tchrist Umm that's not what I had in mind,
@RegDwigнt Or maybe too long.
 
@Cerberus Armageddon is a place
 
12:43 PM
@MattЭллен point 5 says nothing about affecting it negatively. It could affect it positively. Which is a good thing.
 
I see you noticed
 
Them's the rules of this game.
 
@MattЭллен Ah, yes, those are ugly. They do not go well with my personal tune (it is constantly broadcast from a tiny microphone on my shoulder wherever I go).
@ElendilTheTall A hill, I believe.
 
it's controversial point that allows for straw man agruments in favour of genocide.
 
12:44 PM
31
A: What is the difference between an apocalypse and a cataclysm?

CerberusApocalypse means "revelation" in Greek, from Greek καλύπτω (kalupto) "hide" and ἀπό- (apo-) "un-". It was so used in the New Testament: the last book is called Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰωάννου in Greek, Revelation of John, in which the Last Judgement is revealed to John, the time when the Christian God will en...

 
@Cerberus a clysm goes up your ass. A lypse does not.
 
@tchrist spoilers, man! I'm only on book 3 of paradise lost
 
@tchrist Unpaid internships are becoming the norm in the USA. In the UK, they are illegal and interns must be paid at least the National Minimum Wage appropriate to their age.
 
Solution: get 4-year old interns.
 
@RegDwigнt Up yours,
 
12:47 PM
@Cerberus is that what "cata" means?
 
Kata means down, you know that.
> In Britain the National Council for the Training of Journalists found that entrants to the profession had done seven weeks of internships or work-shadowing on average, 92% of it unpaid.
 
@AndrewLeach More and more, the United States is turning into an ugly hell: slave labor, debtor prison, etc.
 
@AndrewLeach Apparently not...
 
catapult: down potato
 
12:48 PM
@tchrist not to mention spray cheese
 
@Cerberus but you don't. You said "up", not "down".
 
@RegDwigнt What goes down must come up.
 
A clysm down yours.
 
Eww go wash your mouth.
With green soap.
 
@Cerberus yesterday's OVV report disagreed.
 
12:49 PM
That’s the neutron-bomb version.
 
@tchrist The interns can leave. Not exactly slaves...
 
@Cerberus Sorry, wut? There was a court case not all that long ago.
 
> In Britain the National Council for the Training of Journalists found that entrants to the profession had done seven weeks of internships or work-shadowing on average, 92% of it unpaid.
Perhaps there are ways around those rules.
 
There's always two to tango.
If you want to get paid, don't take up unpaid offers.
 
Or is this rule very recent?
 
12:51 PM
The court case was only a few months ago.
 
Especially if you have a friggin diploma in journalism, which skyrockets you right into the top percentile of applicants.
 
NPR just ran a story a few minutes ago about how one of the big problems down in Missouri where the current race ugliness is occurring is that over 20% of the budget is paid for by extraordinary court fees. You pay for everything, including even pleading guilty, which has its own charge. And when you cannot pay, they throw you in debtors prison.
 
@RegDwigнt Yes, but if you're desperate and the other party has far more power than you do...
@RegDwigнt But there are still too few jobs for people with journalist diplomata.
 
@Cerberus then why have you specifically studied, for years, for a shitty job you'd know would be shitty?
 
12:52 PM
Because you hoped you would be an exception. Foolishly.
 
Yeah.
 
@tchrist Of what budget?
 
Not many lad who once delivered newspapers from their bikes before school every morning go on to become journalists. They know the unjustness of the economic situation.
@Cerberus County.
 
> The employer doesn’t have to pay the minimum wage if an internship only involves shadowing an employee, ie no work is carried out by the intern and they are only observing.
@AndrewLeach I see loopholes...
Or at least circumstances that are difficult to verify.
Especially if both parties want the unpaid internship...
But at least it's good they have a law, I suppose.
 
If someone isn't doing any work they needn't get paid. But it wouldn't take very much to prove an intern has actually done something.
 
@tchrist So the entire local government budget??
 
> Ferguson collected $2.6 million in court fines and fees last year. That was the city's second largest source of income. Or about 21 percent of its total budget.
@Cerberus Yeah.
 
@AndrewLeach I'm not sure that is true. Besides, if the intern doesn't want to get paid, noöne will try to prove it.
@tchrist That is a lot!
 
They just make up fees, and then if you don’t pay, off with your head.
@Cerberus I think so, too.
> A yearlong NPR investigation, "Guilty and Charged", described the explosion of fees charged to criminal defendants across the country to fund government as the court dockets have grown crowded and there's been a 700 percent increase in the prison population over 40 years.
 
Courts should not have an interest in punishing or prosecuting people, they shouldn't charge people anything. If they have to, it should be a fixed rate independent of how the case progresses.
 
12:57 PM
> Defendants are now charged for a long list of government services that were once free — including ones that are constitutionally required.
> And, the NPR stories showed, when poor people have trouble paying, they sometimes go to jail — even though debtors prisons were outlawed in the United States nearly 200 years ago and more than 30 years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that judges cannot send people to jail just because they are too poor to pay their court fines.
So it’s still happening.
And what poor person can afford an attorney smart enough to argue them out of debtors prison?
I have heard about this. It is not just in that state. It is everywhere.
 
So it is very prevalent?
 
> For example, NPR found, in at least 43 states and the District of Columbia, defendants can be billed for a public defender; in at least 41 states, inmates can be charged room and board for jail and prison stays and in at least 44 states, offenders can get billed for their own probation and parole supervision.
 
I wonder what would happen if all the prison doors in America were opened.
 
Yes. It is nigh unto ubiquitous. And growing.
 

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