English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:09 AM

I think the cause is the dialects of southern Italy.

But the OP may think it has to do with English.

@Cerberus have you seen this bit of back stabbing?

in English Language Learners, 11 hours ago, by Feeds

snailboat has removed skullpatrol from the list of this room's owners.

Why is that backstabbing?

Hmm.

Also, where the hell is skullpatrol.

Haven't seen him in a while.

You're talking to him.

12:10 AM

I wasn't sure.

};-)

You never can be.

He was banned in Math or something.

Well what do I care if I'm an owner under a handle I'm no longer using?

(Serious question.)

I don't know.

I don't really know how banning works and what Snailboat's expected behaviour would be.

12:13 AM

Yeah I don't know anything about Math.

I was there like once, got five messages onto the star wall, disconnected and never looked back.

They sloooowwwweddddown my brausaaarrr.

i remember that :D

Of course you do. You are not Cerberus.

robjohn came in here once too

Doesn't ring a bell.

owner of the math room

12:16 AM

Mkay.

a PhD from Princeton

I only remember that Asian-looking guy, with that answer about music everyone on this planet upvoted except for myself and Rob.

But it's been ages so I don't even remember his name.

@685-252 yeah okay I never cared for titles or toponyms.

A bright person is still bright without a label.

we like to label things in math :-)

See, that's another reason apart from not caring for a PhD I gave up on math.

makes the book keeping easier

12:19 AM

For that I studied economics.

Trust me, lots of labels in there, but nothing with math.

They will label everything, but won't know what a variable is.

But I think I really shall go watch that movie now, or watch it to the end rather.

Biology is the same

Tis a new shtick of mine. Watching movies as if they were series.

Works surprisingly well.

I was sort of forced to, what with the WC, but now I sort of enjoy it actually.

@RegDwigнt I agree.

WC?

World Cup.

Water Closet.

Your pick.

You have three tries.

Ahh.

12:22 AM

Wrong.

Next try.

I put three tries on Water Closet.

You win eine Kloschüssel.

That is my final answer!!

It is your final Kloschüssel, too.

Is that a loo lid?

12:23 AM

So look after it well.

@Cerberus Schüssel? You not have that?

Lid would be Deckel.

Yes, we would say deksel.

The bowl is a pot.

Yeah that's one of many names.

Ich bin auf dem Pott.

I think we only have pot.

Yes, op de pot!

We say that. But it is very informal.

Yeah.

Or ik zit op de pot, usually.

12:25 AM

There's also Lokus.

And 00.

Huh??

And Scheißhaus.

Oh, sure.

And das stille Örtchen.

We have 1001 words.

12:26 AM

I suppose Lokus is a euphemism for a euphemism, then.

For those who don't like Örtchen.

Plee, WC, toilet (non-U!! I can barely type it), um, schijthok, kakhok, etc. etc.

Ahhh.

That's hilarious, Lokus.

Yes, um or hum is a word. It is like the sound you make when referring to a word you cannot remember or are loath to say.

In Russian, one euphemism for vomiting is "complaining to the white friend".

Who is the white friend?

The Kloschüssel.

Ahhh.

Nice.

12:28 AM

You don't have a PhD from Princeton, do you?

Alas, I do not.

That explains everything.

Anglo-Saxon universities are overrated anyway, because they make their own ratings tailored to their own systems...

Toponyms are completely random and only say things about money.

Where does Schüssel come from anyway?

12:29 AM

Eeeeeneeeee goede vraag.

What's the connection between toponyms and money?

Hah.

It's either een or ene.

@Cerberus you've only ever heard of Princeton at all because they have money.

Right, that is partly true.

Same reason you never heard of the Podunk uni.

Indeed, I have not.

However, the suggestion is that lots of money results in much better research than a fair amount of money, regardless of other factors.

12:31 AM

@Cerberus but I wasn't sure, so I used both, and since I used both I had to add a connecting E, too. That's how it works.

Haha.

Fair enough.

So anyway let me look it up before I go.

I can search Duden...

Wolfgang Schüssel

Wolfgang Schüssel (Wenen, 7 juni 1945) was Oostenrijkse bondskanselier van 2000 tot 2007. Lid van de christendemocratische ÖVP. Schüssel volgde een opleiding aan het gymnasium en studeerde rechten. Van 1968 tot 1975 was hij fractiesecretaris van de ÖVP in het Oostenrijkse parlement. Schüssel was van 1989 tot 1995 minister van Financiën in een SPÖ-ÖVP coalitieregering. In 1995 werd hij gekozen tot voorzitter van de ÖVP en vicekanselier. Bij de verkiezingen in oktober 1999 eindigde de ÖVP met 26,9% van de stemmen op de derde plaats na de SPÖ en de FPÖ (deze laatste kreeg een paar honderd s...

Ah, yes, I know that name.

12:32 AM

I actually completely forgot about him.-

I just posted the link, then saw the picture and went hey I totally knew that guy once.

> Wie andere Gefäßbezeichnungen (siehe besonders Becken, Kessel, Pfanne) ist auch 'Schüssel' als Fachwort der römischen Küche zu den Germanen gekommen. Das Substantiv mhd. schüzzel[e], ahd. scuzzila, niederl. schotel, aengl. scutel "Schüssel" (engl. scuttle "Korb") geht auf lat. scutula, scutella "Trinkschale" zurück, eine Verkleinerungsbildung zu dem nicht sicher erklärten lat. scutra "flache Schüssel, Schale, Platte".

Ahhh so it is related to schotel!

A schotel is a saucer.

I wonder if it's related to the golden Skultullas.

Never heard of that one.

What do you call a UFO in German?

Sure you have. You know Zelda.

We call it a vliegende schotel.

A satellite receiver also has a schotel.

12:35 AM

C'est quoi, ça?

A golden skulltula.

Oh.

Sounds like a made-up word...

You could collect 100 thoughout the entire game. A side-quest.

@Cerberus it did have a skull shape on its back.

And you got a golden skull token for killing it.

Pretty straightforward.

Not sure what's the deal with Ula, though.

Probably something with Japanese.

Ura.

Which is actually a Japanese word now that I mention it.

"Other".

Ah.

12:37 AM

Or the Russian word for "hooray".

Wevs.

Hoera!

I keep getting the "you can't post this message in the next 5 hours" warnings, so I guess they want me outta here.

Huh?

@Cerberus who you call a whore?

I have never seen that?

That's hoer.

12:38 AM

@Cerberus sure you have, when you type too fast.

@Cerberus same question!

Ah, those 5 hours.

Yeah those 5 hours.

@RegDwigнt Whom am I talking to?

That's another good question.

It was fucking 30 degrees outside today. Probably more in the city.

12:39 AM

I am not here, so it can't be me.

My house is still an oven.

@RegDwigнt OK then who asked?

Who was fucking 30 degrees? And why?

Also, it's 98 degrees I think.

98 Degrees

98 Degrees was een Amerikaanse boyband die bestond uit vier mannen: de broers Nick Lachey en Drew Lachey en de vrienden Justin Jeffre en Jeff Timmons. Alle leden van de jongensgroep kwamen uit Ohio. De groep brak in Amerika door met Invisible Man. De single behaalde de 12de plaats in de Billboard Hot 100. Hun eerste album 98 Degrees werd goud. De groep had zijn grootste succes met de soundtracksingle True To Your Heart, een duet met Stevie Wonder. Hiermee brak 98 Degrees wereldwijd door. Het album 98 Degrees and Rising werd vele keren platina en ze werden genomineerd voor "Best American b...

Kwamen?

Seriously?

Kwamen?

Came.

Sure thing, but with a W?

Ik kwam, jij kwam, hij kwam, wij kwamen.

Yes, with a w.

12:41 AM

Now you're just making shit up.

Seriously I would have expected five Es in there, but not a W.

Heh.

Ik kwomme?

Let me think of cognates...

Ik kom, jij komt, hij komt.

Hence the question.

I think there was a labiovelar in Proto-Indo-European or something, kw-.

12:43 AM

Kommen in German, come in English, and ik kom even in Dutch, but as soon as it's in the past you're suddenly a frog?

Yes, kwa(a)k.

You should really review your language after not drinking for five days straight.

But I am off!

CU tomorrow.

later

> bij de wortel pie. *gwem- ‘komen’

@RegDwigнt Not drinking for five days straight is difficult. But notice the labiovelar!

Apparently, Germanic lost the voice and turned g into k. Only Dutch kept the w, and only in the past tense.

@RegDwigнt Old High German quëman is related. And so is Dutch bekwaam ("skillful"), probably related to German bequem.

> Mhd. bequæme, ahd. biquami, ähnlich aengl. gecwœme ist Verbaladjektiv zu dem unter kommen behandelten Verb und hat dessen alten kw-Anlaut bewahrt. Die Grundbedeutung ist "zukommend, passend, tauglich" (wie in got. gaqimiþ "es ziemt sich", s. auch das nahverwandte bekommen).
Die heutigen Bedeutungen "angenehm" (eigentlich "keine Schwierigkeiten bereitend") und "träge, faul" haben sich erst seit dem 18. Jh. entwickelt. - Abl.: bequemen, sich "sich fügen, herbeilassen" (18. Jh.); Bequemlichkeit (mhd. bequæmelicheit "gute Gelegenheit, Annehmlichkeit", von dem heute untergegangenen Adjektiv mh…

1:41 AM

Hey, @Cerb. You should have more tolerance of the Fahrenheit temperature scale. It was invented by a Dutchman.

@Robusto Was it?

But I harbour no feelings so silly as patriotism.

@Cerberus Hmm. You are pure science?

Wait, that can't be right. You're always changing your mind(s) about thing(s).

Quot capita tot sensus.

I'm not sure what science has to do with patriotism...

@Robusto Haha, indeed.

It doesn't. That's my point.

And yet you mentioned the two in one statement.

1:46 AM

I mentioned nothing of patriotism. You did. Look, it's right there in front of you.

@RegDwigнt That would be worshipping at the porcelain altar early Sunday morning.

@RegDwigнt I thought Russians only had white friends.

It’s cuzza their white nights. Like how all cats are the same color after midnight.

Except above the Arctic Circle. And isn't Arctic Circle kind of a redundancy anyway?

When the sun doesn’t go down on them, everybody looks white as a driven yeti.

1:53 AM

Apollo goes down on you? Lucky boy.

@Robusto Only if the Tropic of Cancer is redundant.

@Robusto I am Helios.

@Robusto Suggesting that I should like things invented by my fellow countrymen amounts to an accusation of patriotism, i.e. the irrational valuation of things related to my country as higher than other things.

Ah, I got the etymology wrong. I thought Arctic came from arc (part of a circle). But it comes from Greek arktos meaning the northern bear.

@Robusto Everybody knows that!!

@Cerberus Easy, it was just a mild jest. I would never accuse you of so base a thing as patriotism.

@tchrist Only just.

1:56 AM

@Cerberus The world is a smaller, wanner place when the pride of one’s place has all run out of it.

@Robusto breaths easy

Do we have to talk about bearberries again, Arctostaphylos uva-ursi?

@tchrist On the contrary, the world of a patriot becomes all too narrow.

Love is not wrong. Love of place is just one form of it.

Arctogæal may not be quite the same as circumboreal, but it’s getting close, at least for Jewish bears.

It is perhaps not wrong, but it should be limited to and admitted to be purely aesthetic and irrational.

2:01 AM

Y tu mamá también.

How often do you vocally support her detractors against your mother?

How often do you vocally support her detractors against your mother country?

Please enjoy petting my cataphor.

@Cerberus Patriotism is not necessarily irrational. Your country is a social unit that provides you support, among other things. Supporting that social unit is partly a selfish act. Morally supporting it ditto.

> “My country, right or wrong,” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother, drunk or sober.” ―G. K. Chesterton

@tchrist It is smooth and pretty.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Perhaps it depends on your definition of patriotism.

In this case, it means "the irrational valuation of things related to my country as higher than other things".

So it is irrational by this definition.

Maybe it is because you don’t really have a country.

I’ve heard the Belgians have the same trouble.

What is that supposed to mean?

2:13 AM

I said what I meant to say.

It is a paradox, and hence deliberately unintelligible.

Imagine going to an intramural high school football game.

It would be irrational, and socially dangerous, to root for your opponent.

If you think your team is the best just because it is your team, then you are a fool.

But you seem to think this is permissible and rational.

3 mins ago, by Cerberus

In this case, it means "the irrational valuation of things related to my country as higher than other things".

2:15 AM

I find that disingenuous.

Supporting the interests of your social unit is not what this is about. It was about Dutch scientists and valuing their products.

You cheer when your team prospers.

You do not cheer when your opponent prospers.

You may or may not do so, but that is not that this is about.

This is but natural.

Yes, it is.

It’s the same thing.

It is not.

2:16 AM

Bah. You’re just being obstreperous.

One is supporting your interests. The other is a biased view of the truth.

There is no difference here.

If I thought Fahrenheit was better merely because it was invented by a Dutchman, I should be a fool.

There is a huge difference.

If you expect me to go off tilting at your straw herrings, you’ve tagged the wrong knight errant.

@Cerberus Anybody can live in Dutchland. That doesn’t make them a Dutchman.

No idea what you are talking about.

2:21 AM

> Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (/ˈfærənˌhaɪt/; German: [ˈfaːʀənhait]; 24 May 1686 – 16 September 1736) was a German[1] physicist, engineer, and glass blower who is best known for inventing the mercury-in-glass thermometer (1714), and for developing a temperature scale now named after him.[2]

But the foolishness of patriotism as defined above is so obvious that a rational person need not even discuss it.

At any rate, it was just a little joke from Robusto, so it doesn't matter.

He was a German expat.

It matters not.

I don't care whether he was born in Uzbekistan or Zululand.

2:26 AM

There is a natural sense of pride that derives from seeing someone else excelling who is perceived as “one of us”, just as there is a natural sense of shame when someone thus perceived commits deplorable acts. It’s about community; it’s about identification.

We call that rooting for one’s own side.

It is normal, and not improper.

29 mins ago, by Cerberus

It is perhaps not wrong, but it should be limited to and admitted to be purely aesthetic and irrational.

It is with civic pride that we raise the stars and stripes on this day.

2:44 AM

@Cerberus Stop trying to scare people.

Blame Tom for posing like that in the picture.

So Fahrenheit wasn't really Dutch. He only died there.

Oh well.

Oh, well, indeed.

Q: What is the meaning of the pejorative form of “gay”?

3:01 AM

This may not be pretty.

3

Dictionaries don’t define the pejorative use of gay, but the term is used in common parlance. For example: That’s so gay. or You’re gay. Is there a way of establishing what gay means when used pejoratively?

pejorative-language

0

A: What is the meaning of the pejorative form of “gay”?

No, gay used pejoratively has no special meaning to distinguish it from any other slight meant to disparage and discredit those whom it refers to. Their only real “meaning” is to be mean. In this way, this is just like any other slur based on race or national origin or religion or sex or disabi...

Ugly is as ugly does.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I can't go on / it's useless to try

Hm, can one have an animated icon/gravatar?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I urge you to try it.

3:19 AM

@tchrist I'm not sure that's what the OP was asking

But suddenly I'm not feeling like thinking about it anymore, so forget I spoke.

Randy and Lorin have captured a giant dragonfly.

And are “playing” with it now.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I guess he doesn’t realize it is no different from calling someone well, you can think of them I’m sure.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist oh, please take a picture.

@tchrist Maybe he is seeking confirmation of the notion that there are two words, "gay": homosexual, and "gay": inferior, lame, pathetic, and that they are different, unconnected words.

Ref.

3:35 AM

> Vaginal-American

lol

Limerick Machine: A Prodigy-caused circle pit Drew me down right into it I’m not very strong But nothin…

4:34 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It’s all so strange: they forbid broad but allow wide, forbid bum but allow fanny, forbid blonde but allow blond, forbid spic but allow span, forbid white-trash but allow black-trash, forbid hebe but allow jeeby, forbid hippy but allow dippy, forbid alky but allow acidhead, forbid honky but allow tonks, forbid greasers but allow socs, forbid Betty but allow Wilma.

Stack Exchange

9:36 AM

posted on July 05, 2014 by sgdi

A Prodigy-caused circle pit Drew me down right into it I’m not very strong But nothing went wrong Surviving the sweat and the grit

10:17 AM

I woke up this morning with a woodpecker tapping on my house by the bedroom window. Very rude.

does it happen often?

Never before. I hope never again.

online.wsj.com/articles/…

go to work and write some code or stay home and do nothing?

11:29 AM

@JohanLarsson Those are the only alternatives?

that I can think of

@Cerb I will be monitoring your activity 90 minutes today

A mother turkey and her brood appeared on our deck at breakfast. Our cats were very interested.

a turkey is ~ 5 kg right?

"no need to do something, [or/nor] do that thing" is nor adequate here?

11:52 AM

gonna read a book for a while

@Robusto I woke up this morning to my cats tearing up my bedroom in search of a mouse.

I woke up this morning to the mellow sound of cicadas and the sun caressing my face. Eat your hearts out.

12:21 PM

@terdon Yours aren’t even magical.

You have no idea.

Periodical cicadas

Magicicada is the genus of the 13-year and 17-year periodical cicadas of eastern North America. Although they are sometimes called "locusts", this is a misnomer as cicadas belong to the taxonomic order Hemiptera, suborder Auchenorrhyncha, while locusts belong to Orthoptera. Magicicada spp. spend most of their 13- and 17-year lives underground feeding on xylem fluids from the roots of deciduous forest trees in the eastern United States. After 13 or 17 years, mature cicada nymphs emerge at any given locality, synchronously and in tremendous numbers. After such a prolonged developmental pha...

Ah, yeah, those are funky!

Ours have cycles too though.

So you see barely any most years, but ever nth year they irrupt in massive numbers?

A: Is the use of a hyphen between "non" and an adjective strictly necessary?

0

I find many words in dictionaries have a definition (necessary: definition follows), but others do no (unnecessary: not necessary) as we see here I still have to look up the word necessary to find out what not necessary means. Using the word nonsense as another example I will show sense (ha...

Now I have a headache.

Not sure. Something along those lines. Some years have more and others less.

Also, if I remember correctly, they lay eggs this year and hatch some years down the line.

Really not sure about the last though.

> 4) There are about 2,500 species of cicada around the world and 15 or 16 in Provence. Some species can live for up to 17 years; provençal cicadas live for four years, all but a few weeks of which are spent underground in the form of grubs.

4 is a bad number for hashing; 17 is much better.

@terdon Did you see they’re using Sevilla to film Game of the Thrones for this next season/series?

12:31 PM

Ha! No, I'm guessing because of Dorn?

Right.

sevilla.abc.es/sevilla/20140702/…

Fair enough :)

Juego de Tronos. Pffft.

The actor who played Prince Oberyn, Pedro Pascual, actually has an American accent in English. To play the part, he imitated his Chilean father’s accent. :)

And they will have no trouble finding “ethnic-looking” extras in Sevilla.

Which reminds me, you're one of the few people I know who'll appreciate this. I once heard a Spanish radio DJ describe a song called "Mellow blues" as "Un blues que mola"

@tchrist Does he? Wow! He did so pretty well, I was sure he was a native Spanish speaker.

Is it possible to use nor without his neither friend before?

12:36 PM

@cc Sure.

ok

@terdon He might well be bilingual; all I know is that his English sounds almost straight American.

A: Using "nor" in a list without "neither"

18

Although the classic rule is to use neither and nor together, Grammar Girl writes: “Nor” doesn’t necessarily have to appear in a sentence with the word “neither.” “Nor” can start a sentence. For example, if you’ve just mentioned that you don’t usually wake up at 6 a.m. and you want to continu...

> Serene, I fold my hands and wait, Nor care for wind, nor tide, nor sea; I rave no more 'gainst time or fate, For lo! my own shall come to me.

@terdon That’s an odd stretch, but ok.

@cc There are lots of ways to use nor without neither.

12:45 PM

"∃x, ¬P(x) & ¬Q(x)" are those sentences correct:
There is an x verifying neither P, nor Q
There is an x verifying not P and not Q
There is an x verifying not (P or Q)
There is an x verifying not P, nor Q
There is an x that doesn't verify P, nor Q

@cc The first is, yes. The last one also if you remove the comma. It is strange, but I don't think you'd call it wrong as such. The rest are wrong.

There is an x verifying neither P, nor Q
There is an x not verifying P nor Q
There is an x that doesn't verify P nor Q

this #2 can pass maybe?

No.

I think no :x, I mean I don't think so