English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

8:00 PM

Ohh...

Johan Larsson

a speeding bullet

Cerberus

OMG I'm changing all my votes!!

RegDwigнt

@tchrist nothing much decided just yet.

André Silva

@Jez Than normal spanish

tchrist

@AndréSilva If you mean the castellano of Castile, then what is going on is that its intonation pattern is different from what you have been exposed to in America.

RegDwigнt

8:01 PM

Jez

@AndréSilva I thought Castellano ("Castillian") was normal Spanish.... synonymous?

Cerberus

Elfenbeinküste?? Really?

tchrist

Well.

Cerberus

Hilarious.

It's Ivoorkust.

Or we sometimes use the French name.

tchrist

Polémica en torno a español o castellano

La polémica en torno a los términos español y castellano se basa en la disputa para decidir si resulta más apropiado («correcto») denominar a una de las lenguas hablada en España, en Hispanoamérica, en Guinea Ecuatorial y en otras zonas hispanohablantes «español» o «castellano», o bien si ambas son formas perfectamente sinónimas y aceptables. Introducción Como muchas de las controversias relacionadas con la denominación de una lengua identificable con un determinado territorio (español con España, y castellano con Castilla), o que lleva aparejada una ideología o un pasado histórico que...

Robusto

8:03 PM

Ahahahahahaha! "The font Cambria is not available on OS X Maverick. It has been replaced by Times New Roman." WTG, Apple. Forward, into the past!

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus how do you mean "or" and "sometimes" if both names are from French?

Mahnax

2

Q: 2014 Community Moderator Election Results

English Language & Usage's 3rd moderator election has come to a close, the votes have been tallied, and the 3 new moderators are: They'll be joining the existing crew shortly — please thank them for volunteering, and share your assistance and advice with them as they learn the ropes! For d...

Andrew, Yoichi, and Matt. Congrats all!

RegDwigнt

Yay. Now I can watch the game!

Doorknob

Congrats! :D

Alraxite

Not so fast. They may decline the moderator agreement.

Jez

8:04 PM

@AndréSilva so that tennis player's accent was Castillian?

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt From is not the same thing. We use Ivoorkust and Côte d'Ivoire. I think. But normally Ivoorkust.

André Silva

No, that was portuguese from Portugal

RegDwigнt

@Alraxite that should be really fast, though: moderator agreement, moderator agreements. Done!

Jez

oh yeah what am i talking about, lol

Cerberus

@Mahnax Aww no Mahnax! You had my vote!

André Silva

8:04 PM

Haha

Marthaª

But... but... but... Mr. Hen was supposed to be a shoo-in! Sheesh, folks!

user116848

What's the informal way to tell a friend that I am looking forward to his/her response

Cerberus

But I also voted for the other three at some point. I like them all.

user116848

??

Robusto

Looks like Yoichi was the sentimental favorite. I wonder if he'll show up in chat now.

Mahnax

8:05 PM

@Cerberus I received very few votes. 2/3 of the people I guessed would win did, though.

Cerberus

How odd!

tchrist

I was wrong about everything.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto I kept wondering how far he'd get.

I don't even remember who I voted for. I can remember like two people I voted not for.

André Silva

By the way, anyone know German language ? ( I mean, that it isn't native language )

tchrist

Actually, that’s not true. I was 2/3 correct. But my other third was wrong twice.

Robusto

8:06 PM

I know I voted for Yoichi out of loyalty. Yes, it still exists. Even on the internet.

Cerberus

I expected Andrew, Matt, Mahnax, and Mr Hen. I didn't know which one of those four would not make it. And possibly Yoichi, he was a wild card.

RegDwigнt

@AndréSilva You lost me at the parenthetical.

tchrist

@Cerberus That’s what I thought.

Cerberus

@Robusto Exactly. I voted for him at first, for that exact reason.

c c

!!define duck tape

Cerberus

8:06 PM

@tchrist Then you were not "all wrong".

Jarvis the Bot

@cc duct A pipe, tube or canal which carries gas or liquid from one place to another.

Robusto

@AndréSilva Let me get this straight: you want an imperfect, non-native take on German? I'm your man.

Cerberus

@AndréSilva Dutch and German.

André Silva

@RegDwigнt Haha, I usually type what comes to mind, and it usually isn't well structured, but I meant if anyone understand the german language and it isn't the native language

Jarvis the Bot

@cc duct tape A generally gray waterproof tape used for many purposes, and possessing nearly mythic status in American culture. It is no longer used for constructing duct-work, as building codes require more advanced products.

André Silva

8:07 PM

@Cerberus I was wondering, was it hard to learn ?

RegDwigнt

@AndréSilva then pretty much anyone in this room.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Yeah I also not voted for those two.

user116848

Can anyone come here chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/15120/… Its very crowded here I want to ask some grammar questions?

Jarvis the Bot

@cc duck tape (informal) Duct tape.

Jez

@AndréSilva I'd say it's hard to learn, and my mother tongue is partially Germanic :-)

Cerberus

8:07 PM

@AndréSilva Well, no. I grew up speaking Dutch. And German is somewhat similar to Dutch.

Jez

then again i'm crap at learning languages

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Because we are an odd room.

Jez

@Cerberus so yes then, if your mother tongue isn't like German

RegDwigнt

See, it makes no sense to ask others because five people will get you six answers. And your own will be different still.

c c

those barbarian laguages

André Silva

8:08 PM

Hm, but for a english/portuguese speaker, do you guys think it would be hard to learn ?

tchrist

Or like Californian, like.

Cerberus

@Jez What? No, German is fairly easy to learn.

RegDwigнt

Go learn German, then you tell us if it was hard for you.

Robusto

@AndréSilva I'll answer for @Cerberus. It wasn't hard to learn the basics. But like any language, it's hard to get a real mastery.

Jez

@Cerberus no way Jose

Cerberus

8:09 PM

@AndréSilva Somewhat, but your knowing English is a big advantage.

tchrist

@AndréSilva Somewhat, yes. Depends on your measure. Harder than learning Spanish or Italian, yes.

Jez

tons of new vocabulary to learn

Cerberus

@Jez It is. I can intuit many of the rules and a fair bit of vocabulary.

Robusto

Not as hard as Russian.

Easier than Japanese.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist Until it comes to pronunciation, where all bets are off.

Jez

8:09 PM

@Cerberus as i said, if your mother tongue isn't like German

Cerberus

@Jez Oh, I thought that was American like.

Jez

@Cerberus hah, no...

tchrist

@RegDwigнt He’s starting from Portuguese, remember? That means he knows that all bets are off on pronunciation. :) (Well, ok, Brazilian, which isn’t as hard as Portuguese, but you know what I mean.)

RegDwigнt

@Jez which is like, Albanian and Basque, and that's about it.

Jez

that's, like, a really dumb way of using like

c c

8:10 PM

one language, less problems

tchrist

Euskadi.

Jez

also it's usually put in commas

Mitch

@Robusto But forgetting loyalty, what about how well he will moderate?

Robusto

@Mitch He's Japanese. We can't forget about loyalty. What are you, crazy?

RegDwigнt

@cc People who know only one language typically have the most problems with languages, including that one.

6

tchrist

8:11 PM

No se sabe, ni se puede saberlo.

Jez

@RegDwigнt almost no mother tongues are like German in such a way as to mean they share significant amounts of vocab

Dutch may be one exception

Robusto

I'll bet he does at least as well a job as any of the current crop.

Jez

@RegDwigнt ok, 2 languages, fewer problems. ;-)

tchrist

@Robusto I think you want the dual form: either.

Cerberus

@Jez English shares a fair bit of vocabulary with German.

RegDwigнt

8:12 PM

@Jez wishy-washy weasel wording.

Robusto

@tchrist I think we currently have more than two. I mean, even before the election results.

Jez

@Cerberus not enough that i can even begin to understand it without massive amounts of study

tchrist

@Robusto Yes and no.

Cerberus

@Jez Die Lampe.

Der Fisch.

Robusto

But I am sure he will do a much better job than some of the others who wanted the job.

tchrist

8:13 PM

@Cerberus Hannibal Lector, right?

RegDwigнt

Look at a Swadesh list of your choosing, and you will find that all languages share significant amounts of vocab. Except Euskara.

Jez

yeah, the odd one-off noun isn't likely to be very useful for communication

Robusto

@tchrist Aye. And caveat lector, fwiw.

Cerberus

@tchrist Hannibal, the Reader...of what? He must have been able to read Latin, probably.

@RegDwigнt Swadesh?

tchrist

@Cerberus Die lamb die. Silently.

Robusto

8:14 PM

@RegDwigнt Nah. Except for gairaigo, Japanese doesn't share any. And the ones they do share are almost unrecognizeable.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus is that a honest question? In this room? From you?

Jez

@tchrist what's that, the lamb the?

Robusto

Actually, I read Swadesh as Swedish the first time through too.

Cerberus

@tchrist Haven't seen that film.

@RegDwigнt I'm probably missing something major, but that word sounds like gibberish to me.

Let me double-click it...

Swadesh

Swadesh may refer to * A Swadesh list, named after its creator, Morris Swadesh * Swadesh in Hindi means "one's own country" * The movie Swades People * Swadesh Bharati (born 1939), Award winning Hindi poet * Swadesh Bose (1928–2009), Bangladeshi economist and Liberation War organiser * Swadesh Chakraborty (born 1943), Indian politician * Swadesh Deepak (born 1942), Indian playwright, novelist and short-story writer * Morris Swadesh (1909–1967), American linguist * Swadesh Roy (born 1961), Bangladeshi journalist and writer

Clicking on the "list" link...

tchrist

Swabia

Swabia (, colloquially Schwabenland or Ländle; in English also sometimes Suabia or Svebia) is a cultural, historic and linguistic region in southwestern Germany. Swabia was one of the ten Imperial Circles of the Holy Roman Empire from 1500 to the dissolution of the Empire in 1806. Geography Like many cultural regions of Europe, Swabia's borders are not clearly defined. However, today it is normally thought of as comprising the former German state of Württemberg (with the Prussian Hohenzollern Province) and the administrative region of Bavarian Swabia. In the Middle Ages, the term Swa...

Robusto

8:17 PM

I don't like funny languages.

c c

there should be a language with numbers as alphabet

Jez

anyhoo, the new moderators are to be announced?

Robusto

Holy cow! Yoichi has almost as many badges as me!

I never realized that.

tchrist

@cc We already have that: we just call those numbers code points.

Robusto

I guess he is living proof that it is better to ask some of the questions than to know all of the answers.

Jez

8:19 PM

oic them

tchrist

He’s Socratic.

Cerberus

@tchrist I know Schwaben, but what about it...

tchrist

@Cerberus Schwaben, Swadish, what’s the biff diff?

OFFS we have no moderators in the New World timezones AGAIN

Jez

@tchrist Kit is american

André Silva

Thanks for the answer everyone

tchrist

8:21 PM

@Jez No, she isn’t. She’s American.

Cerberus

@AndréSilva If you ever need help with Dutch, ask here!

Jez

@tchrist soo what's your point about the new world timezone

tchrist

And that has nothing to do with the price of tea in Tokyo.

Robusto

10

Q: 2014 Community Moderator Election Results

English Language & Usage's 3rd moderator election has come to a close, the votes have been tallied, and the 3 new moderators are: They'll be joining the existing crew shortly — please thank them for volunteering, and share your assistance and advice with them as they learn the ropes! For d...

discussion featured election

tchrist

There will still be a dead zone.

Mitch

8:23 PM

@Robusto I know I'm being a bit autistic here: I like Yoichi and his presence here a lot, but based on stats (data from his behavior here), he probably won't spend much time actually doing moderation. Also, everything he said in his positions was all about himself, and issues he himself has had.

tchrist

That is not dead.

Cerberus

@tchrist We have Tokyo now. Our time zones have expanded.

Robusto

@Mitch When it comes to moderation, less is more.

2

tchrist

@Mitch That may not be unrealistic.

André Silva

@Cerberus Haha Ok, thanks for letting me know it.

Jez

8:23 PM

@tchrist a dead zone? the western US is only 4 hours behind

Johan Larsson

@Robusto staryes

Cerberus

@Mitch I kind of understand your point. But we'll see.

tchrist

On verra.

Cerberus

@Jez He means it's fly-over country...

hides in sack

Mitch

@Robusto I think the point of the needed the election is that is not enough.

Cerberus

8:24 PM

English?

Robusto

@Mitch I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

tchrist

Cerberus

Stop your silly patriotism, you A...

Robusto

Team America: World Police

Team America: World Police is a 2004 American satirical action comedy film written by Trey Parker, Matt Stone, and Pam Brady and directed by Parker, all of whom are also known for the popular animated television series South Park. The film is a satire of big-budget action films and their associated clichés and stereotypes, with particular humorous emphasis on the global implications of the politics of the United States. The film's title is derived from domestic and international political criticisms that the foreign policy of the United States frequently and unilaterally tries to "police ...

Jez

actually i have no idea what @tchrist 's point was.. there are 2 other American mods too

Robusto

8:25 PM

Gotta see this movie. If you haven't already.

tchrist

Jez

maybe it was meant to be a joke

Cerberus

@Jez Yeah the country is pretty overrepresented?

We lack Australia.

Jez

yep. not sure there are Aussie frequenters

tchrist

Why does nobody ever approve my flags, damn it!

Johan Larsson

8:26 PM

@Robusto I started but was writing code 90% of the timeslices pretty fast

Cerberus

@tchrist Cover your Anglo-Saxon war symbols!

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Gotta take some time and savor this one.

Cerberus

I presume it is based on this?

8:28 PM

what is the difference between presume & assume?

Cerberus

Often very little.

user61230

pre·sume: Suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability.
as·sume: Suppose to be the case, without proof.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Not much. They're pretty much interchangeable.

Cerberus

It depends on context.

@Emrakul I have to say I'm not entirely buying that.

Robusto

@Emrakul Probability is also without proof.

Cerberus

8:29 PM

Yeah it's a bit vague.

Johan Larsson

@Matt say something, wanna see your font

user61230

Casually, I'd agree they're interchangeable. But they do have distinct definitions.

Cerberus

Matt Gutting

Something...

Mitch

@Robusto I hope that the new moderators will help with all the work on flags that the current mods just can't deal with because of scale. Some of the candidates seemed to be direct their comments towards that work, others about things that moderators wouldn't actually deal with much.

Matt Gutting

8:30 PM

@JohanLarsson Something else?

Robusto

@Mitch Me, I don't care about that quite as much as you do.

tchrist

𝖘𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌

Cerberus

@MattGutting How about you start with the Iliad?

Johan Larsson

@MattGutting oh sry about the ping, meant @MattЭллен, not used to polymatts

Cerberus

Awww.

Johan Larsson

8:31 PM

@Mitch did you run for mod?

Matt Gutting

Hmf. sulks

Mitch

@JohanLarsson no.

Cerberus

Matt is too busy being indoctrinated in the Indoctrination Lounge.

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson I'm all blue

3

Cerberus

OMG scary!

Green and blue!

Matt Эллен

8:31 PM

cracked open a Strathisla to celebrate

Robusto

OK, simply put: presume is the word you use so that the person you're talking to can't come back with: "When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. That's really the difference in a nutshell.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus you can call me Mr. Teal

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен Yeah! Ctrl + F5ed it

Matt Эллен

:D

Cerberus

@MattЭллен grovels before His Illustriousness Mr Teal

Robusto

8:32 PM

@MattЭллен You're not Mr. Teal. Some guy on some other job is Mr. Teal, you're Mr. Pink!

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен now delete some random posts and ban us!

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Yay!!! Fun!

@JohanLarsson lol

8:33 PM

@Robusto what? but can't I be a better colour, like Mr. Black or something?

tchrist

►

Matt Gutting

@MattЭллен Professor Plum?

Johan Larsson

you could ask for pink

Robusto

►

Watch and learn.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto I know what you're referencing, I just couldn't remember the line

Robusto

8:34 PM

I gave you the line. "Because you're a faggot, that's why!"

Johan Larsson

Is it Bushchemi who is mr Pink?

Matt Эллен

also, the UK isn't allowed to see that clip :D

Johan Larsson

Is Madsen mr black?

tchrist

Because of STV instead of FPTP, @MattЭллен was elected instead of @phenry.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto oh well.

:D

yay for STV?

it certainly was very close

about 7 votes in it

Johan Larsson

8:35 PM

how many votes totally?

Alraxite

I hope Yoichi will moderate well.

Matt Эллен

for everyone?

623 people voted

Johan Larsson

for you

Matt Эллен

for me. it's complicated due to STV but I got about 144 votes

Marthaª

@JohanLarsson It's STV. There's not really a single "this many people voted for me" number.

Alraxite

8:36 PM

Why can't they make a bar graph with all the 1st, 2nd, 3rd votes listed for each candidate?

Robusto

@MattЭллен Sexually Transmitted Virus?

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson this is how it played out

@Robusto superstitious transvestites

tchrist

Round and round and round we go. . . .

Johan Larsson

pretty close, why not make all mods?

Matt Эллен

you'd have to take that up with SE

Jez

8:38 PM

STV. a better voting system than FPTP!

Marthaª

@JohanLarsson Then who would we vote for next year?

Jez

which is why our shitty country uses FPTP

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен #unlikely

skullpatrol

@JohanLarsson Does stackexchange even have a site for computer repair?

Matt Эллен

Johan Larsson

8:39 PM

I ask in Superuser chat

Mitch

@Jez well, it's sorta FPTP but with vote redistribution after eliminating LastPTP

skullpatrol

@MattЭллен thanks :-)

Robusto

@MattЭллен: I still don't get STV. But hey, if you won't cheat for a good outcome you don't want it bad enough, am I right?

Matt Эллен

@Robusto lol, exactly

I don't understand it either

Mitch

@MattЭллен Neat. In the horse race, you moved past phenry FTW or For The Place

Jez

8:41 PM

@Mitch yeah, single transferable vote

radically different

Matt Эллен

@Mitch yeah. when I looked at the first chart I was very confused, by the end I just went with it.

Cerberus

FPTP is bad. You either need STV (if you don't have many candidates) or proportional voting.

Jez

although we not only have FPTP, we have it and only elect one candidate per constituency

which is frigging useless

Cerberus

Yeah.

Jez

but hey, the Bruitish public voted no to improvement so fuck them

Cerberus

8:42 PM

FPTP is in the interest of established parties and lobbyists...

Jez

@Cerberus so much so that is basically demolishes democracy

Mitch

Here there's only one constiuency... unless there's the "Merge ELL/ELU" party

Jez

there are too many useful idiots who will vote for "the mainstream"

Mitch

so is everyone then for proportional rep instead of FPTP?

Jez

everyone where

Mitch

8:43 PM

"Useful Idiots" my new punk band name.

@Jez In places where people complain about how FPTP is crap.

Cerberus

@Jez Yes, it is pretty bad. Although, as you say, incredibly enough, most people (it was a referendum, wasn't it?) voted against STV, so who knows what would happen if most people were really against the government? Then it would probably still be democratic enough, the system, to get rid of them.

@Mitch Of course! Unless the total number of people to be elected is fairly small.

Jez

@Mitch not here, but i don't the majority are for FPTP either. i think the majority are so stupid they'll vote for whatever they're told to

:-(

there's literally no rational argument in favour of FPTP other than "it helps the established parties"

Cerberus

Well, the is one argument.

Jez

yet people bought into stuff like "it works well" and "one person one vote" as if that wasn't fucking meaningless claptrap

Cerberus

People feel like there is an actual person representing their region.

Jez

8:46 PM

yeah, emphasis on feel

skullpatrol

@Mitch how about "Useless Genius'"

Cerberus

Although I don't think that is worth much, because regionalism is bad, and also because most people in the district may not have voted for that person anyway.

Jez

may not? almost never

Matt Эллен

simply beacuse most people don't vote

Cerberus

@Jez How do you mean?

Oh.

@MattЭллен Well, that's their problem.

Jez

8:48 PM

@Cerberus the sitting MP almost never has over 50% of the vote

Cerberus

No? How come?

Jez

because people have a variety of political opinions

our system says "fuck that" and give a monopoly to one

Matt Эллен

yeah, there were a bajillion MEP options. there can't have been >50% of the votes for whoever got in

Cerberus

But I'm sure there are a number of districts where one party is particularly strong.

Jez

@Cerberus yeah, like 2 or 3

Cerberus

8:49 PM

Are you sure?

Jez

politics.co.uk/news/2010/5/11/…

Mitch

@Cerberus then you'd need to round up or use pieces of people.

Jez

ok, 33% apparently. higher than i thought

Mitch

@skullpatrol that actually makes sense, so maybe good for new age/fresh jazz?

Cerberus

@Mitch That would be an option. I could count for three. Or you could do STV.

@Jez Ah, see?

Still, it is too low.

Jez

8:52 PM

@Cerberus i'm not sure about that article though... it doesn't mention UKIP bizarrely

skullpatrol

@Mitch :-)

Jez

who are easily the most underrepresented. 1 million votes, 0 seats.

Cerberus

By the way, the extreme-right European "party" consisting of Wilders and Le Pen has failed, yay!

They were unable to acquire a seventh party.

Mitch

Look at all our visitors/lurkers in the sideboard. Say something controversial for them!

Cerberus

@Jez Haha maybe that is an advantage, then...

Jez

8:53 PM

@Cerberus so which group will they join in the EP now, then? or will they just be independents?

Cerberus

@Mitch Iphones are gay?

@Jez Independents. There is no group they could join.

Mitch

@Cerberus they get so much press though, even here they are mentioned. I feel like that skews voting in bizarro ways.

Jez

@Cerberus no, i support any party getting its appropriate share of representation

Cerberus

So they get less money and less privileges.

@Jez Yes, of course, but it is still a beneficial side-effect.

Mitch

@Cerberus shocking! how dare you spell 'iPhones' wrong.

Jez

8:54 PM

no it isn't

Mitch

Is too.

Cerberus

@Mitch Psah. You know I don't speak marketing-speak.

Jez

there's nothing beneficial about any democratic deficit

Mitch

I don't really know what I'm arguing about, it's just fun.

@Cerberus apoplects

@Jez democracy is overrated.

Jez

@Mitch true. i've given up on it really.

Mitch

8:55 PM

nobody cares anyway, as long as they're well fed and entertained.

@Jez also reality.

Jez

just have to hope people in charge don't shaft me too much

it does mean i have to ignore certain laws though. they just made khat illegal here for instance

yay for banning all drugs that aren't mainstream or are demonized!

Mitch

the bad part is when people are starving, killing each other or randomly put in jail for 'political' reasons (yes the first two are worse).

Jez

@Mitch not if the "jail" is a north korean concentration camp

another flag

no context

dumbass flagging system

> England end their poor World Cup 2014 campaign with a goalless draw against Costa Rica to finish bottom of Group D

Johan Larsson

what was flagged?

Jez

heh. good job i didnt watch the world cup

@JohanLarsson something with the word "masturbation" in it. the user probably got suspended because this place is full of prudes

Mitch

8:59 PM

@Jez right, that just seems like if you accidentally forget someones name, off you go to 'reeducation camp'. (trema that @tchrist)

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Oh dear.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto zapped into that one just a couple days ago. Was pleasantly surprised and on more than one account. Watched till the end.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…