English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

RegDwigнt

15:00

Yeah, the title works, but the first sentence is really funny. What is the word for commentary?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox oh! I purposely don't vote to close questions I want migrated to EL&U. well, now I know.

KitFox

If they should go to ELL, then they must be off-topic here for some other reason.

In other words, they need to be closed on their own lack of merit.

MrHen

@KitFox Mostly because we wouldn't bother migrating a question that is also suitable for ELU.

KitFox

Right.

MrHen

The ones I flag are actually questions I'd probably just downvote

I don't really bother to close vote old questions stuck in the Unanswered queue anymore

KitFox

15:02

And I also get tired of the "this should be on ELL" instead of "this is why this shouldn't be on EL&U"

RegDwigнt

I wonder what my downvote rate is by now.

MrHen

@RegDwigнt You can look that up.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox Sure. I saw migration as an alternative to closing, so I didn't bother with it.

RegDwigнt

> 3,937 up
4,519 down

@MrHen of course.

Matt Эллен

Damn, we've been found out. — KitFox ♦ 3 mins ago

:D

MrHen

15:03

I had a query that showed us the ratios of all ELU users

Let me see if I can find it again...

KitFox

I understand. I'm feeling grouchy.

RegDwigнt

> how does one expect a novice to successfully use the site?

Well. We do not.

This is a site for experts.

Seriously though, we do expect people to search first.

Matt Эллен

maybe he means a novice of the site, not of English

RegDwigнt

I know. It is my joke. Do not ruin it.

Matt Эллен

oh

MrHen

15:05

Top downvoters

Matt Эллен

puts hammer down

MrHen

Top 5: Mahnax, Kris, Andrew Leach, username901345, MετάEd

RegDwight is #6

RegDwigнt

Hold on, will be there in a minute.

MrHen

Also, the query apparently does not filter out suspended accounts...

So I should add that feature.

username901345 is dead.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Are we experts??

Who knew?

MickLH

15:08

Honey Boo Boo

Cerberus

Yoichi certainly is an expert question asker.

@MickLH Yo-Yo Ma.

Anonymous

@MrHen username901345 and his sock puppets have been very active on ELL

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus you're no expert in getting jokes, that's fo sho.

Back to fourth grade for you.

Cerberus

I took it to be a joke regardless of intention.

KitFox

Hi @snail.

MrHen

15:09

@snailboat Hm, lucky you

Anonymous

Hello!

meer2kat

ohhhh no :( the bot is off. i can't play hangman in the hangman room :(

RegDwigнt

I forgot once again which sites snailboat is or isn't a modesse on.

Was it ELL or Japanese?

Anonymous

Only Japanese!

RegDwigнt

So. What's your beer with ELL, then.

You do make it all confusing on purpose, don't you?

Anonymous

15:10

I answer questions there on occasion!

RegDwigнt

How dare you.

Anonymous

And sometimes I notice stuff.

RegDwigнt

Inexcusable.

meer2kat

@RegDwigнt You're inexcusable

RegDwigнt

That's why I don't even try.

Matt Эллен

15:11

@meer2kat you're inexcused

RegDwigнt

No execumcisions in this chat.

Matt Эллен

awww. but I wanna

KitFox

@meer2kat You just need to summon her there.

meer2kat

@MattЭллен ohhhh :( but please

Matt Эллен

too late.

meer2kat

15:12

@KitFox i dunno how to do that. most of the commands won't work (maybe i'm just dumb)

Matt Эллен

it's been done

meer2kat

@MattЭллен </3

Matt Эллен

c'est la vie

RegDwigнt

@meer2kat nonono, you mean communists.

meer2kat

@MattЭллен carpe diem

@RegDwigнt that's fair

Matt Эллен

15:13

carpe jugulum!

MrHen

Top downvoters

meer2kat

@MattЭллен carpe-t ride?

MrHen

There we go, no suspended users

KitFox

Commands work fine. Must be you not functioning. frowns

!!summon 8795

RegDwigнt

@meer2kat no. But this is fair:

meer2kat

15:14

@KitFox most likely

RegDwigнt

Everyone must see this designer video. You ain't seen nothing about LEGO if you ain't seen this.

►

meer2kat

@RegDwigнt that's beautiful. oh. so i need an infinite number of legos.

@RegDwigнt oh wait, minecraft.

KitFox

Oh Jamie.

I remember him.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox You came and you built me a turkey

KitFox

Oh my god that looks like fun.

RegDwigнt

15:18

It's magic.

I literally don't know how he does it.

KitFox

Holy crap it glows in the dark

RegDwigнt

The parts are meh, I probably have enough myself, but I sure as hell need the building instructions.

Matt Эллен

!!urban carpet ride

KitSox

@MattЭллен No definition found for carpet ride

Matt Эллен

ok

RegDwigнt

15:19

Carpet diem.

MrHen

Here's another semi-interesting query: Total votes cast / reputation (filtered to only users with 5000+ rep).

RegDwigнt

@MrHen I. Uh. Wut?

Aedia can't have that many downvotes, so these must be ones she cast.

MrHen

@RegDwigнt Correct.

RegDwigнt

In which case I'm not sure what the query is supposed to show.

Other than quite literally, apples divided by oranges.

MrHen

Nah, it's just a look at who gives out votes compared to how often people vote for them.

I was curious about who was contributing votes but only really cared about the high-rep users.

RegDwigнt

15:22

Well. That you can have in our very own Voters tab, no?

english.stackexchange.com/users?tab=Voters&filter=all

MrHen

The query isn't intended to be statistically meaningful.

@RegDwigнt It's certainly similar.

(This was just a case of, hey, I have this one query over here. Let me copy it and see what other funny numbers I can make out of it.)

RegDwigнt

Well, it sort of makes sense as "who spends the most of their reputation on downvoting".

MrHen

@RegDwigнt Heh :)

I just like looking at data. :)

RegDwigнt

But now that downvotes no longer cost reps on questions, it's like half the fun.

MrHen

@RegDwigнt Whoa, I missed that memo.

RegDwigнt

15:25

Srsly?

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt I thought that was going to be boring and stupid, but I have to admit it is kind of cool.

MrHen

That explains why I wasn't seeing the rep hits. I was curious about that.

RegDwigнt

They did that liek b4 u even registered. It's been literally light years.

Matt Эллен

Ward, Vancouver, BC, Canada

433 1 5 13

5000 votes

MrHen

@RegDwigнt Really? Huh, then I must have totally spaced out.

Matt Эллен

15:26

I remember this before, actually

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus yeah it ain't got the looks. Photos don't make this thing justice. It's all in the functionality. Not a display piece at all.

Cerberus

Uhuh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt yeah, that was my thought too. It's a fun kit, but more technically impressive than collectible. Though it makes me think that there needs to be more rides in the carnival... and then my brain goes down a road that leaves my existing WIPs unfinished.

RegDwigнt

@MattЭллен yeah I think we mentioned him previously.

Alraxite

So, it was implemented a large unit of distance before.

Cerberus

15:27

@RegDwigнt Just like my previous date.

OK OK maybe not.

meer2kat

marco

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus so your last date was a display piece?

RegDwigнt

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 see, that's why I stopped having WIPs a while ago. My only WIP left is sorting.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Haha more like regular.

RegDwigнt

@MattЭллен his dates are literally bitches. Just sayin.

Cerberus

15:29

@meer2kat Quoi?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt Yeah. I feel like it's pointless to own a lego collection if I never build my own ideas. But it turns out my own ideas are terrible. I'm better at the engineering part than the design part.

@meer2kat polo

RegDwigнt

I sort of lost that spark I had as a kid. Where I'd just get down to building any time of any day. Just do it. [R]

meer2kat

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 winner!

Matt Эллен

taim to gow

RegDwigнt

Now I have to plan and sort and [all that] shit.

It's serious business.

Cerberus

15:31

How sick is that.

Creepy stalker!

meer2kat

@Cerberus did you introduce yourself as polo?

Cerberus

Should have!

KitFox

Marcus was the name of my made-up Canadian boyfriend who conveniently dumped me right before an eighth grade dance.

meer2kat

@KitFox that's beautiful

MrHen

2

Q: How do you pronounce the surname Derges

How do you pronounce the english surname of a famous artist-Derges

pronunciation

This is a good example of why we should make questions about names off-topic.

RegDwigнt

15:32

I dunno, as long as he's famous it's okay.

MrHen

The answer is as good of an answer you could get and it is utterly useless for anything other than this very specific question.

@RegDwigнt Why? Then it could only ever apply to one person with that name.

Anonymous

Is the idea that if a person is relatively famous, then the question will be of use to future users who have the same exact question?

meer2kat

@KitFox though when i hear "canadian" and "boyfriend" together i can't help but think of that little brat of a singer

KitFox

No. No. No. I closed it.

RegDwigнt

@MrHen I dunno, but that's the status quo. Take it up with nohat.

KitFox

15:34

We had that whole thing.

It was discussed. No names.

MrHen

@snailboat Bleh. That's not a good enough reason, in my opinion. ELU isn't a name pronunciation guide. Names don't necessarily follow the rules of English.

RegDwigнt

8

A: How can the pronunciation of famous people's names be "too localized"?

Ridiculous. Reopened. There was nothing localized about those famous names. I'm sure those who voted to close just were unfamiliar with the names and voted to close without checking first if the names were famous.

Anyway. I must mute commies.

KitFox

That was three years ago.

RegDwigнt

Lators.

@KitFox The World War Two was OVER 3 years ago, and still people keep using it as a guidance.

Cerberus

Bai.

meer2kat

15:35

@KitFox Welcome to SE, where 30% of answering questions is deciding whether or not it's okay to ask the question ;)

KitFox

6

Q: Is the history/etymology of names appropriate?

I asked a question about the history of names. The question text is asking about the origin of a practice of family names or surnames. There is some contention as to whether this question is on topic for the site, with user Oldcat making the claim that the question is more about history and cultu...

discussion etymology

More recent. Supercedes.

MrHen

@KitFox That question/answer doesn't actually cover this question

history/etymology != pronunciation

KitFox

Close enough.

The same reasoning applies.

Names are not "English".

Anonymous

@MrHen Yeah, it's true. They don't necessarily follow any rules, and they don't necessarily correspond to spelling in a predictable fashion. Though if they violate English phonotactics they're usually mercilessly regularized

MrHen

@snailboat I think asking how to appropriately spell a foreign name makes sense but asking how someone pronounces their name isn't a question about English.

@KitFox I don't see how. This isn't a question about English. It's a question about how someone pronounces their name. There is nothing in "English" that answers this question aside from, "How would this combination of letters be pronounced if it were an English word?"

Not to mention, I don't see how these kinds of questions provide any value.

Especially if our target audience is supposed to be shifting back toward "experts"

Cerberus

15:41

@KitFox That's kind of BS you know.

meer2kat

electroence--alo-ra---

wants to cry

MrHen

But okay... if the community wants them, fine. I wish they'd see fit to upvote the answers, then.

@Cerberus Are you saying names are English?

Cerberus

@MrHen If you want to pronounce a name in English, it's (also) about English.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Alenanno must? no. Should probably? yes. It boggles the mind that anyone would think questions about pronunciation could be off-topic. — nohat ♦ Oct 8 '11 at 18:35

@Jeff obviously questions about how to pronounce proper names from foreign languages are only on-topic if they are names which are so commonly used that they are part of the language. It's not like there is some dividing line that excludes proper names of foreign origin from being part of language. — nohat ♦ Oct 8 '11 at 18:36

MrHen

@Cerberus That isn't what the linked question is asking.

Cerberus

15:42

Each language has its conventions about what to do with foreign words and names.

MrHen

@Cerberus No it doesn't. Each culture has conventions. The English language does not.

Cerberus

Ugh, it's too long to read. Never mind, I shall retract myself from the debate.

@MrHen Uhh there is no separation between those two.

MrHen

@Cerberus You see no distinction between English speaking cultures and the English language?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Essentially, famous names are words in the language, and pronunciation advice for words is on-topic if it's not GR.

Cerberus

Language is among the central elements of culture.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:43

That's nohat's argument.

KitFox

@MrHen Right...I feel like you are arguing with me, but we're in agreement.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Agreed.

meer2kat

i don't like when i don't know the word

Cerberus

sad

MrHen

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I guess that would be a better way to say my point. This kind of question is either off-topic or inherently General Reference as the only way to answer it is to look it up.

meer2kat

15:44

:(

MrHen

@Cerberus So is art.

Cerberus

Yes, so is art.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MrHen well, the problem is that there isn't a GR that lists all the famous names.

Cerberus

@MrHen Although I think language is more central than art as such (which also overlaps with a language 50 %).

MrHen

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hm, fair point.

@KitFox Heh, oops

KitFox

15:45

It's actually pronounced "Throat Warbler Mangrove".

MrHen

@Cerberus X being among the central elements of culture do not make questions about the culture on-topic for a site discussing X.

Cerberus

No.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@meer2kat electroencephalography

Cerberus

But pronunciation is about language q.q.

meer2kat

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah :) @alraxite told me :)

MrHen

15:47

@Cerberus That doesn't make it inherently on-topic, either.

Cerberus

But likely to be on topic. At any rate, the fact that something is about "culture" is meaningless in this context, since everything about language is about culture.

MrHen

@Cerberus The English language is a topic that covers more than one culture.

Cerberus

Naturally.

MrHen

Asking a question about English as if the answer would apply to all cultures that speak English is problematic.

There isn't a good, useful way to answer some of those questions

Cerberus

By the way, there is no clear separation between one culture and the next.

MrHen

15:49

My point is that this is one of those cases

@Cerberus That furthers my point.

Cerberus

@MrHen If that is the problem, then the answer could specify several usages among different (sub-)cultures.

But I hate debating policy.

MrHen

The only way this question will be useful is in answer that very specific question. So now ELU has make judgment calls on how famous a name is before we can decide if it is useful? Ugh.

Cerberus

It kills my fun.

MrHen

@Cerberus Fair enough.

Cerberus

@MrHen Yes, that would make sense.

MrHen

15:52

@Cerberus Sorry. I get a little annoyed when people argue for inclusive policies that don't really help anything. It's a quality over quantity issue, in my mind.

I don't think your position is wrong so much as I merely disagree with it. :)

Cerberus

That's a relief!

meer2kat

"His name is Susan and he wants you to respect his life choices."

Cerberus

When God created man, she was only joking.

meer2kat

@Cerberus hahaha love it

Awal Garg

I hereby declare a competition of coining words. Anyone who wishes to participate can post in the following format:

Hail AwalGarg! My coined term is _coined term_

Then, the person to recieve the most number of stars, shall win.

Prize is my autograph...

lol

meer2kat

15:58

thinks realizes her term has already been coined

Cerberus

@meer2kat This was scratched on a wall somewhere in my high school.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…