English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2014-10-29 (page 2 of 3)

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2:01 PM

@MattЭллен Well, first, I don't think I have any chance now with the Maria I mentioned. Second, I think it is very hard for me to achieve success in the letter I mentioned I might write and distribute.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy what is success in that endeavour?

@MattЭллен Well, actually, I am more of thinking how I can write the letter using the right words to get everything I want to say across without getting into trouble. That is very hard.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy that's a difficult one

@MattЭллен Anyway, I will try to find a new Maria, lol.

Matt Эллен

good, good :)

2:06 PM

I often feel that the Marias are misleading me sometimes, to give me hope and then to take it away from me.

The only Maria who did not give me false hope was L, and L is also the best among all Marias.

Matt Эллен

I don't think they are. I think that you're misreading friendliness as attraction.

Maybe you are right.

Matt Эллен

maybe

No reason to give up, though

2:43 PM

0

Q: Word for sudden feeling of tiredness and wanting to sleep

A sudden feeling of hunger and wanting to eat may be called a hunger pang. Is there a word for a sudden feeling of tiredness and wanting to sleep?

single-word-requests

Advertising my question.

Matt Эллен

tiredness pang?

a wave of exhaustion rolled over you

You may wish to post an answer.

I hope I get many answers and that this question becomes hot.

Matt Эллен

you should add in an example sentence to show how you want to use the word

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

pang is such an odd word.

It is a last name here.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:49 PM

yeah, in other languages it's not so odd.

Ping pong is table tennis. Pong pong is a poisonous fruit.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

乒乓= pingpang

It seems that the characters in the word 乒乓 are uniquely used to mean "ping pong".

Seems so according to my limited knowledge.

Put the two characters together and you get bing for army.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My Chinese dictionary says that 乓 can also be used as a sound, like "bang" in English

My Chinese dictionary entered the rubbish chute years ago.

3:11 PM

No answer to my question, lol. ELU is slow these days.

3:26 PM

Nobody wants to upvote my question.

3:51 PM

Sigh. I can't ask good questions. "I don't understand what you're asking" ... "too broad" ... meh.

I guess my brain only works [well] in help other people mode. cough cough

4:35 PM

@SrJoven what were you asking with your biology.se question? Most human couples still have >2 children which explains why the population is increasing and all species make a simple choice: 1) lots of low maintenance kids (e.g. fish spawning), few live to adulthood or 2) few, high maintenance kids (e.g. humans) many live to adulthood. It's an energy tradeoff.

nods

@terdon I'm not sure most human couples in developed countries have 2+ children. slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/01/…

@SrJoven No, but most humans do since most don't live in developed countries.

Yes, only very few people live in Scandinavia and Singapore.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 A new video of a working Ara, go to 2:00: tweakers.net/video/9629/werkend-prototype-project-ara.html

@SrJoven if I understand correctly, your basic question is why species don't always have as many children as possible. The answer is one of relative energy. There are basically two main choices, many small offspring or few large ones. In the first case, the parents spend their energy producing as many as possible, hoping some will survive but don't spend much attempting to protect them.

In the second, they spend all their energy producing few, large offspring and then protecting them until adulthood. Both are viable strategies.

4:52 PM

No, actually, my question was how did all these people come into existence all over the world. Even if you say "migrated" and such there had to be a significant enough gene pool for the geographic area to have the demographics it had before mass transit.

but it was based upon a supposition that for any given grouping of people there were a tiny few that started that population.

@SrJoven Huh? What people, where? The gene pool resides in Africa, the rest of us are descendents of a small group of migrants which is why there is more variety within African populations than within all the rest of humanity.

@SrJoven Only true for non-Africans.

Mitochondrial Eve

In the field of human genetics, the name Mitochondrial Eve refers to the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all currently living anatomically modern humans, who is estimated to have lived approximately 100,000–200,000 years ago. This is the most recent woman from whom all living humans today descend, on their mother’s side, and through the mothers of those mothers, and so on, back until all lines converge on one person. Because all mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) generally (but see paternal mtDNA transmission) is passed from mother to offspring without recombination, all mtDNA in every...

@Rudi: The etymology of a term, while interesting, does not necessarily affect its current usage. For example, "cheap" has come to mean shoddy, but its etymology shows a more favorable pedigree. By your reasoning, you couldn't use the term "bullshit" unless you were talking about actual manure, a position I reject. — Robusto 6 mins ago

5:24 PM

@terdon That doesn't follow for me. why must there be more variety in Africa than elsewhere? (by the way, I don't know that that is actually the case, that there is more diversity in Africa). Is the gene pool older there? (that might be a reason). But there's no necessary reason that a gene pool that has stayed in one place will mutate more than one that has moved far away from its origins (because amount of change is one way to estimate 'age'.

5:46 PM

@Mitch It's because humans first appeared in Africa, so there you can find the full, original variety of the gene pool. The rest of us are all descendents of that small group that left which means that our variety is limited by what was represented in that group. While some variation has appeared subsequently, the variety of the original group is far greater.

> The recent African origin theory for humans would predict that in Africa there exists a great deal more diversity than elsewhere, and that diversity should decrease the further from Africa a population is sampled. Long and Kittles show that indeed, African populations contain about 100% of human genetic diversity, whereas in populations outside of Africa diversity is much reduced, for example in their population from New Guinea only about 70% of human variation is captured.

From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

If someone gives an example-phrase for a single word request, and you replace the wanted phrase, that is rewording and thus bad?

-2

A: Noun for 'expecting' as in 'expecting couple'?

A little bit out-of-the box, but an expression that can be used is Let me congratulate you guys on your good news! You could even simply use news, which would make it truly a one-word expression. Good news, or great news can mean many things for a couple (getting a job, getting a house, ge...

I feel bad for actually trying to figure out what the OP was looking for and being stupid enough to (try and) give a natural-sounding answer...

@oerkelens presumably because of this in the OP:

> I ask only about a noun form of 'expecting', and not other synonyms or alternatives.

So instead of answering after finally clearing up what he wanted to know, I should vote to close for not being clear?

I editted after consulting the OP to confirm he meant expecting a baby

Which is the phrase I replaced in my answer

@oerkelens shrugs. I'm just pointing out why someone might have downvoted. The question is silly but the OP did restrict to noun forms of expecting.

Ah, I see what you mean

so it is a grammar question then

5:54 PM

By the way, re:

That contradicts the (correct) observation from the OP: "'pregnant/pregnancy' can't be used for both parents" — oerkelens 4 hours ago

Unfortunately, many people now say "We're pregnant!".

Which is absolutely ridiculous and makes me shudder but what can you do...

Most unfortunate.

You can give them the silent treatment, glare at them.

-_-

@Cerberus I tend to answer, "Really? Both of you?"

Haha.

That works, too.

:D

5:56 PM

"Wow, I didn't know your husband was into experimental gynaecology."

@terdon OP made it clear he did not consider that a viable alternative. Which is why I commented on the answer that said exactly what the OP rejected :)

@terdon Yeah, that's all dumb. But it is meant to make the dude not feel left out so that he'll help out more.

I am now indeed totally confused about what the question is about (simple grammar or something else entirely)

@oerkelens Oh and I agree with your comment 100%. It's just that some misguided souls do actually use that expression.

@terdon I know :(

5:58 PM

@Mitch Yes, I always found it unfair that we only need to do the fun part of the process.

Then again, people say "I could care less". One does slowly lose hope...

Not complaining mind you.

@oerkelens That's a contraction: I could care less but I care so little that I don't. Even caring less is too much effort, that's how little they care.

:P

@terdon sure :P

@oerkelens Well, maybe they could.

They just choose not to.

6:01 PM

care less that is.

@Mitch They usually say it when it seems they couldn't :)

No one says "I could care more"

resolves to do that...more

In any case, I gave up all hope for the language when nucular started being accepted as correct.

Don't portons, and neutorns reside in the nuculus?

@Mitch No, only morons.

6:09 PM

@terdon Was that before or after aluminum?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's interesting but still quite a prototype. The resulting phone is pretty ugly, with its uneven back, differently-sized modules, and huge front speaker part. And most importantly, they will need to demonstrate that there is a price advantage. Can you build cheaper phones? Can you build high-end phones that are comparably priced to non-modular flagships? Will it be possible to upgrade components? Time will tell.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I actually rather like the modular look!

I just don't like the orange colours.

Will there be a price advantage? Most probably not.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus If there is no price advantage, why would people buy it?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, not in the short term: in the long term, there should be a price advantage, when you pay just €50 to replace your broken screen, €15 to double your battery life, €15 to double your RAM once applications need more memory, etc.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus should, yes, hopefully. Also, assuming you can double your ram without also having to replace your CPU, etc.

I have not upgraded RAM on a PC in years without also replacing the motherboard and cpu and video card at the same time.

6:21 PM

Another reason is customizability: this way, you can have exactly the phone you want. That has a double effect: it makes the phone better for you, and it makes it cheaper to get the minimum parts your special circumstances require (you can buy the cheapest camera, or no camera, if you don't need a camera, and save some money).

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Not since the 90s.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, but there is no technical reason why that shouldn't be possible: it just so happens that motherboard makers don't make modern boards using DDR2.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yeah, you can potentially save money by buying cheap components or leaving out components. Assuming the base costs are low enough. And also assuming that the base costs are much lower than comparable integrated smartphones.

There will be greater pressure on Ara to remain backwards compatible.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus There is a technical reason: to get better performance, you need newer technology.

6:23 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think they are: just look at Isupply's tear-downs...

And there will be more competition of Chinese manufacturers that only make 1 part can sell directly to consumers.

So lower prices.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm not sure there will be sufficient pressure. The entire PC industry is huge and NOBODY caters to the market of wanting to mix and match components from different generations.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Umm I don't get that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The technology that links processors to memories is buried in the motherboard (for PCs) or integrated on the chip (for phones). Each processor generation improves on the memory tech for better performance. It has to, because memory access is much slower than the CPU.

So these technologies have to be upgraded in lock-step

For ARA to allow RAM upgrades, there will need to be a way to upgrade the RAM itself such that the new RAM is compatible with the old CPU and the old interconnect.

Maybe you'll just need to buy the old RAM, assuming it's still on the market.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But there is: just not for RAM/mobo/CPU. Hard drives, on the other hand, and other parts, are often backwards compatible for a long time. Now imagine there was one motherboard maker that dominated the market but also got 5% commission on 80% of all other part sold, through its own store for 3rd-party parts. That board maker, which will be Google, will have a huge incentive to improve backwards compatibility.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Actually, old RAM for PCs is also still on the market. And, if you have more slots on your motherboard, you can still plug in extra DDR2 memory.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yes, but the PC market is much huger than the Ara market. And I'm not convinced that it will even be possible to upgrade the RAM itself.

6:29 PM

Of course there is a limit: depending on the part, eventually you will lose backward compatibility. But think how fast smartphones go: even one extra year of b. c. would be a huge boon. For PCs, the benefits of one extra year are fewer.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Not to mention the question of drivers for new hardware.

Well, every part you can upgrade separately is a huge benefit, even if you can't upgrade all parts separately. Think also of replacing broken parts.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Look, I understand the abstract advantages of modularity. I'm just extremely skeptical that the technical and economic obstacles can be overcome.

The driver question alone is a huge problem.

It's not even a solved problem for PC hardware

Now we're supposed to believe it will somehow be solved on phones?

Ara may achieve some measure of success by mandating a specific Linux kernel to use. But Linux changes its driver APIs all the time, with no notice.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I know you are.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So Ara might be stuck on a specific linux kernel forever.

6:34 PM

I believe Google will remain in control of the kernel: they will build a kernel that works with Ara into standard Android, I read somewhere.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Or else, the drivers will need to be open-source and upstreamed to Google or to Linus.

@Cerberus Of course they are in control of the kernel.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Perhaps that is what they will demand.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, good luck to that. It hasn't happened so far in the industry.

At any rate, Google will implement a way to make sure users only buy compatible parts through the Ara shop.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

They can't even get open-source drivers for their own Nexus hardware.

6:36 PM

But they may be able to put more pressure on a module maker than on whoever makes the entire phone at once.

If Samsung won't make a module with open-source drivers, someone else will, eventually.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Why would they? It's only certain modules in the Nexus that lack drivers. But some of them are important, like the graphics driver (usually).

Then, if Samsung's old module doesn't work on Ara 2.0 any more, that will be a competitive disadvantage for Samsung.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But if Ara 2.0 doesn't work with all the Ara 1.0 modules, users will blame Ara, just like you blame MS when AHK doesn't work in Windows 7.

It is technically possible; there are tons of manufacturers in China; Google will exert pressure. So it is possible that this problem shall be solved.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The manufacturers in China are the worst at open-source compliance, not the best.

6:38 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not if you implement a strong compatibility-checking system in the Ara shop.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Because they don't have to, yet.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I think you perhaps underestimate the degree to which random Chinese companies will push the limits of trying to get away with stuff.

Haha.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus They do, for legal reasons.

Yet they flout the law.

Legal reasons are no reasons for them.

Competition and sales are.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Seriously in which other country would you find a company that intentionally puts melamine into baby formula so that the formula beats the chemical QC test?

6:39 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Besides, I don't think there are such laws in China?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus There is copyright in China.

But less so.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No. Just less enforced. But anyway they flout the law when they sell internationally.

And who knows whether foreign copyrights are legal in China?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You can't tell me they are all ignorant.

Sure they are.

They are just ignored.

6:40 PM

Certainly not on the same terms. Copyright is different in each country.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But ignored in China is one thing. Ignored by Chinese operating globally is another.

At any rate, this is about sales, which affect them; not about copyright, which does not affect them much.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, in almost all countries it's broadly the same. There are details that differ, but broadly, you cannot sell stuff you don't have a license for.

Only WIPO countries, presumably?

And/or ones that have signed the horrible Berne Convention?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus What I'm saying is that there are lots of Chinese electronic devices that ship Linux kernel software that isn't open-source, in violation of copyright in the country where they sell it.

6:42 PM

Of course, I know all that.

Mediatek.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

China is part of WIPO and Berne

But, if Google tells people they shouldn't or can't buy the Mediatek module for their Ara, because it has functional limitations, Mediatek will sell very few modules. That is language they understand, they have a reason to comply.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That assumes that Google will control sales channels for Ara modules.

It will be just like the Play Store: they will control the bulk.

So there will be significant pressure to conform.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And that Google will have a sensible and thorough and accurate QC mechanism for preventing the sale of dodgy modules.

6:45 PM

Yes.

But you will see that there are many more possibilities than in the current, non-modular situation.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway even if they demand open-source drivers, that just shifts the burden of driver maintenance up to Google.

Have you watched that video yet, by the way?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

From 2:00 on

OK.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It demonstrates that it is possible to build a modular phone that works in limited circumstances in a controlled demo.

6:48 PM

So the engineer says the latest model will have significantly more than 50% of the volume available for the non-modular parts of the phone.

So the same parts that are now in a phone 4.85mm thick can go into an Ara that is, say, 9mm thick.

Which is still very thin.

No doubt the ratio is better for weight.

So if the cost is expressed solely in added weight and volume, it will be very manageable.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I think ARA can solve its driver API problem if they move the drivers into user-space. That is, the driver is a java program and it communicates with the module over a standard bus. But that limits the kinds of modules you can make to those compatible with that bus.

That is too technical for me...

User space, is that the part of Android that is outside the kernel?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

There are two spaces: kernel-space and user-space

That's how most OSes are structured.

Ah, so I guessed right...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I mean, I really hope Ara succeeds. Modularity is good.

But its cost is so high

the last PC I bought is not modular at all.

And it works really well

and it was really cheap

It makes me question whether my next PC should be modular too

or whether it should be integrated.

Seriously I never replace components. They so rarely break down, and usually get upgraded all at once.

Even the power supply usually gets replaced

I'd like to be able to add ram to my Nexus S. it's currently nearly unusable because something is using up all the ram. But would it have been as good a phone if it had been modular? Would I have even wanted it? Who knows.

6:58 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Are you sure a modular PC wouldn't have been even cheaper?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus pretty sure.

Well, maybe it would have been around the same price, but it would also have been huge, instead of the tiny little box I bought.

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