English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

00:00

@tchrist p'haps.

Did you find it?

3 hours ago, by cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

What does the number on the left of each question in the autocolander mean?

BBL.

Bradd Szonye

00:32

I'm not digging Shadowcat7's attitude here, but I'm not sure how to make a good counterargument: english.stackexchange.com/questions/125691/…

I seem to recall a question that directly addresses the “It is I” versus “It is me” thing, but I'm having trouble finding it with a search. (This might actually be a duplicate of such a question.)

Nevermind, found it.

tchrist

00:54

Yeah.

I think "academic" is maybe not a good word to use. The people bandying about the notion that 'It is I' is "correct" are essentially twaddle-mongers, not academics. — Neil Coffey Jun 18 '11 at 14:02

Exactly correct.

I see he continues to rant.

Meanwhile, here’s a relevant comment from an actual academic linguist:

My understanding is that nonsentential utterances with nominative pronouns are ungrammatical hypercorrections—people consciously applying a grammatical "rule" they learned explicitly rather than through the natural process of language acquisition. Whether or not such utterances are grammatical I suppose is debatable, because so many people have been taught and sometimes use this "rule", such that artificial language instruction has interfered into the natural grammar of the language. I will stand by regarding it as ungrammatical, however. — nohat Apr 28 '12 at 0:09

I haven’t found Lawler’s yet.

tchrist

01:15

But I found Arnold’s.

itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001762.html

I predict that Shadowcat is not going to do well here. Seems like a mere peever.

Bradd Szonye

01:37

Yeah, I wondered whether Lawler had weighed in on the subject.

@tchrist Ugh, yeah.

Excellent work assembling the countering academic opinions, by the way.

Later all! Have a great weekend.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

02:16

@tchrist how does a roulade differ from melisma?

Basically, I'm unclear on what a roulade is.

Cerberus

02:58

@tchrist This is based on an arbitrary supposition.

That "natural" language is separate from language one actively learns.

And that the latter is somehow less "real", or inferior.

tchrist

@ShadowCat7 Arnold Zwicky:“puttin‌g aside some well-known complexities like coordinate subjects and also putting aside a slew of normative prescriptions, the basic rule for nominative/accusative choice in English is: nominative for subjects of finite clauses, accusative otherwise. This rule has to be understood literally: only subjects of finite clauses; things understood,or interpreted, as subjects of such clauses don't count. So free-standing pronouns are accusative,even when they're interpreted as subjects: Who did that? Me.” — tchrist 2 hours ago

Cerberus

Meh.

I'm drunk and eating a hamburger, so you can make me do anything.

But I will not agree that "I" should be wrong!

tchrist

Try me.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Cerberus

Waaat.

tchrist

03:11

Put your clothes on!

Cerberus

Ehhh.

It was hot.

tchrist

Or at least turn off the webcam.

Cerberus

OMG I left it on!

tchrist

I think I wish I were drunk.

Cerberus

Why?

tchrist

03:12

I might be less likely to go postal.

And more likely to go to sleep.

Cerberus

Why would you go postal?

finishes hamburger

There.

I've also made out with a computer geek. Who knew they existed? They're obviously very attractive.

tchrist

Because I have had to try to make sense of code written by idiots, code that should be folded, spindled, and mutilated, before being incinerated and its ashes cast to the four winds during a hurricane.

If said idiots were within 10,000 miles of me, it might have gone badly.

So all I can do is wish a hurricane upon them.

Cerberus

I see.

They will receive such hurricane.

India?

tchrist

Ding ding ding ding.

Cerberus

burns India

Better?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:23

Why you no answer my question?

General Reference?

tchrist

Remoulade?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Goes great with peanut butter.

Yes.

tchrist

Sometimes I’m too tired to tell a melisma from a hemiola.

Because I thought you were asking for cooking advice.

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 'ch one?

tchrist

I only know of using melisma for that.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:27

1 hour ago, by cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist how does a roulade differ from melisma?

BBL

tchrist

I honestly was confused by the apparent category error, not knowing the other sense.

> 1957 Times 22 Oct. 3/1 - Some of the tunes were of considerable interest, varying from oriental melismata to a modal melody like an English folksong.

Nice plural.

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Ahhh.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 The answer is, a roulade is a dish of meat, while a melisma (hear that for the first time) is a musical technique.

A roulade is called a rollade in Dutch.

Or so I believe.

I would spell it the Dutch way.

tchrist

@Cerberus See, that’s what I thought.

Cerberus

You, too, had never heard of the term melisma?

I mean, I know what it is, but I didn't know there was a name for it.

Maybe roulade has a secondary meaning.

tchrist

No, I have known melisma since I was a kid.

I thought roulade was a meaty thing.

So her question perplexed me.

The cat is dragging me off to bed.

And no, this is not a euphemism.

Cerberus

03:42

Haha.

I like her spirit already.

1

Q: Can a semicolon be used to separate questions?

Did you see Survivor last night; it was crazy, right? Did you see Survivor last night? It was crazy, right? Can a semicolon separate questions? Which one is correct?

Reopen. Question's fine.

MετάEd

@Cerberus You always say that, you charmer.

@tchrist "remoulade"?

Cerberus

@MετάEd Wait, are you coming on to me? Exploiting my intoxicated state?

Oh, well.

@JohanLarsson I think I was walking along with a group of Swedes tonight.

They said a lot of "joh" and had the typical Swedish intonation. They were nice. Swedish tourists really are the best.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist Even Cathy Berbarian knows / there's one roulade she can't sing

goes to bed

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Ohh never heard of that!

You're sharp.

> It is usually performed in a rhythmically free style, either by use of rubato or over a musical pause and it is in this way that it is distinguished from a melisma.

MετάEd

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 s/$oulade she can't sing$/em\1e/

@Cerberus Or if you're P.D.Q. Bach it might be a miasma.

Cerberus

03:57

There was a PDQ?

So many Bachs.

Johan Larsson

04:20

@Cerberus Jo means they can even have been from the north of Sweden. Are you up early or late? I'm early.

Cerberus

You can say that again! Very early, you are.

I'm late.

So they don't say jo in the south?

Jason Marsh

Guys, if someone sent me an email saying such as "Hey u said u like kyary. U liar! Holy crap --- American grandpa. Angry grandpa is 10 times funnier than him. ....." and I am vague about who actually "him" indicates, then should I reply an email asking "What is the subject of 'him' in the sentence" or simply just "Who does 'him' indicates"?

Cerberus

04:39

@JasonMarsh Hi!

Jason Marsh

Hello

Cerberus

I don't entirely understand the (badly written, incorrect) e-mail you quote, but neither of your answers would be correct.

Nor can you say "I am vague" to mean "I am unsure/uncertain".

Jason Marsh

Yeah, I know

Right

Nevermind

Cerberus

@JasonMarsh You could ask, "who is 'him' in your sentence?".

Or "who does 'him' indicate?".

Or "whom do you mean by 'him'?".

Jason Marsh

Nice, thank you.

Cerberus

04:43

I pity you for having to reply to such badly written e-mails!

There is a huge difference between 1.) careless writing and 2.) careful writing with mistakes.

The latter anyone will forgive.

I think his e-mail falls under 1, while your replies fell under 2.

Jason Marsh

Thank, that's a relief.

Cerberus

And most of your lines are correct anyway.

Jason Marsh

From seeing you for awhile, I felt that you are a very generous person. You should change your career and become a TOEFL grader and give people genuine TOEFL marks

Cerberus

Haha, thanks!

But I don't think I'm a qualified TOEFL teacher, nor yet a grader.

Jason Marsh

05:06

Do you watch any Japanese horror videos? When the ghost eventually reveal itself and astonishes the main character just before the movie or video ends, do you think the ghost actually kills the main character or not?

Johan Larsson

05:21

@Cerberus they do but the North is kind of famous for it, and using it as a reply to anything and everything. In the far north we have an even more efficient way of saying it, we just breath in and make a whistleish 'jchh'.

Cerberus

@JasonMarsh Sorry, I never watch horror movies...

@JohanLarsson Haha, I see.

So what is the "normal" word anyway?

(I actually thought it was "jo".)

Johan Larsson

'Ja' means yes, jo is the same. I think ja is more proper in writing.

Cerberus

Ohh I didn't even know you head ja.

We only have ja.

Johan Larsson

Why are you always up so extremely late?

Cerberus

Well, my bed times are always messed up.

And I only got home at 5.

Johan Larsson

05:26

are you feasting on blood and stuff?

Cerberus

Yes.

Sucked a couple of humans dry in that bar.

Johan Larsson

ok, no fun with the sun then

Cerberus

Yeah.

Sometimes ja may sound like jo in Dutch.

Johan Larsson

Annoying thing with the laptop, the spec said battery-life 8,5h, don't think I have ever seen >4h in practice

Cerberus

Ugh.

Maybe you should buy a powerpack.

Johan Larsson

05:29

Tempted to start raising hell and asking them to send me a device according to spec

Cerberus

They're cheap, and you can double the battery of your laptop.

Johan Larsson

but they most likely have it covered in some fine-print

@Cerberus dunno where/how to connect such a device, no docking on this one

Cerberus

ebay.nl/itm/…

Johan Larsson

A car charger was $200 I think

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Docking?

You only need USB.

Johan Larsson

05:31

checking your link

Cerberus

It's just a random powerpack...Ebay is chock full of them.

Johan Larsson

one of the usb-ports has a battery symbol on it, should probably look in the manual

user87637

06:06

OMG, ryebread is giving rubbish answers...

Matt Эллен

06:44

gurd monin

user87637

07:18

@MattЭллен Boo!

Matt Эллен

Hi, @Jasper

user87637

I saw you downvoted the bread, LOL.

Matt Эллен

yes. it is wrong. we can't have that :D

user87637

I am keeping my downvote at 0, that is my new obsession, LOL.

Matt Эллен

Downvotes are quite rare anyway.

user87637

07:21

Does ryebread really think that his English is awesome?

user87637

His answers have a certain air of authority in them, LOL.

Matt Эллен

I don't know.

The second sentence is wrong, though.

user87637

The first is wrong too, haha.

user87637

People use too many commas these days.

user87637

They seem to use one every time they feel like taking a breath.

Jason Marsh

07:27

I wonder if you can perform previous action in Adobe PDF viewer

Matt Эллен

@Jasper oh! good. I did wonder if that comma was necessary

user87637

@MattЭллен I would go so far as to say that not only is it not necessary, it is outright wrong.

Matt Эллен

it is a splice, no?

user87637

The cat that is red, has died.

user87637

The cat that is red has died.

user87637

07:29

It's the same as the above pair.

Matt Эллен

but you could say "The cat, that is red, has died"

maybe that should be which

user87637

Yes, only which can be used there.

user87637

And then that would be a pair of commas, not a single one.

user87637

I wonder who upvoted the bread on that answer, LOL.

user87637

I am going to take a nap!

Matt Эллен

07:37

CU

Jason Marsh

C - U

Stack Exchange

08:28

Limerick Machine: The man in the moon was upset Mars had got all the fun pets Satellites all around Robots on the...

posted on September 07, 2013 by sgdi

The man in the moon was upset Mars had got all the fun pets Satellites all around Robots on the ground If only I was a redhead

Matt Эллен

10:44

►

Jason Marsh

11:33

"Screw Shcool" by Anonymous

Jason Marsh

11:48

Yes.. My sushi has finally arrived

Yes..yess... Excellent...

tchrist

13:29

Anybody home?

I need a good name.

One that is descriptive yet short enough to be not too terribly inconvenient.

This is a programming question. It’s for a function name.

I’ve decided that “create and open for writing a brand new output file whose permissions are copied from an existing file’s” is too hard to type. :)

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus better than being flat!

tchrist

And open_new_output_with_perms_copied_from_other_file() just does not spritely from the fingers spring.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

writeWithExtantPerms()

tchrist

But at least folks would know what it does. :)

But it is actually a create-a-new-file kind of open, not a writer function.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus nice catch!

openNewWithExtantPerms()?

tchrist

13:38

Yes, better.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

createWithExtantPerms()?

Perms aren't great for your hair.

tchrist

Perhaps create_with_copied_perms is good enough.

At least the copy_perms() function name is simple enough, for what it does underneath.

I really need more coffee.

Jason Marsh

Guys, I have a question on grammar. I'm little bit confused about using -ing form for adjective in a sentence.

tchrist

Oh, maybe create_with_inherited_perms() instead?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist createWithDaddyPerms()

tchrist

13:43

This is for $job, I’m not allowed to be sexist. :)

Jason Marsh

Example sentence is like, "you may send a representative who must present a valid identification card and a letter 'indicating' that you permit him or her to claim the vehicle on your behalf.". I know that I need to put the word "indicating" there by feeling but I'm not sure in theory

can you explain it to me?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

and parentPerms() is too damn long.

tchrist

Really?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Well, okay.

tchrist

But parent is just one letter longer than daddy.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

13:44

17 secs ago, by cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Well, okay.

tchrist

Okay.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@JasonMarsh it's correct. The card and letter indicate and continue to indicate.

Jason Marsh

Hmm, right so I can technically put 'indicates' as well right?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

No.

Jason Marsh

Oh wait, no

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

13:46

You'd have to say "...who must present a valid identification card and letter that indicate"

And that's getting into wonkyland.

Johan Larsson

@tchrist No tractor for me today, a guy wanted to play with his new 4WD

user87637

@corn I now understand why you feel so about the bread, hahax.

Johan Larsson

probably a good thing

@Jasper I overuse smileys so you are not alone

user87637

@JohanLarsson Well, I am just in a smiley mood these days.

Johan Larsson

[x] good thing

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

13:55

@Jasper oh yeah? Did he hurt you?

user87637

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 No, I just thought his answer was crap.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Ha!

@tchrist have you named your baby?

Robusto

14:21

@tchrist @tchrist new_from_perms() will get you "create/open" in three characters, four to sum up the act of inheritance, and five to specify what is being inherited.

tchrist

That actually works better, because I already have some new_... functions for this module.

Thanks.

Robusto

De nada.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Dangit.

Robusto

Don't you mean dangit()?

Alraxite

Hi

Would you say 'Hi all' is correct?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

14:27

@Robusto yes.

Alraxite

because I think it's a bit incorrect...

Robusto

@Alraxite It's better to say "Hi everyone but Jasper."

function dangit(thisStupidThing) {
return dangAllToHell(thisStupidThing);
}

Alraxite

@Robusto okay, thanks!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto giveShucks();

I've been thumbing through Grit magazine. Can you tell?

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Isn't Grit that magazine that employs child slave labor?

Grit (newspaper)

Grit is a magazine, formerly a weekly newspaper, popular in the rural US during much of the 20th century. It carried the subtitle America's Greatest Family Newspaper. In the early 1930s, it targeted small town and rural families with 14 pages plus a fiction supplement. By 1932, it had a circulation of 425,000 in 48 states, and 83% of its circulation was in towns of fewer than 10,000 population. History The publication was founded in 1892 as the Saturday edition of the Williamsport, Pennsylvania, Daily Sun and Banner. In 1885, the name was purchased for $1,000 by 25-year-old German immi...

Oh, shucks, I just got your reference.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

14:31

@Robusto oh dear.

Jimmy crack corn, and I don't care.

Robusto

I used to see ads in the back of comic books trying to get me to earn "valuable prizes" by selling Grit, America's Greatest Family Newspaper.

I never took the bait.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I've seen those valuable prizes ads, but I can't remember what you had to do.

Robusto

I remember there used to be a sign in Rogers Park (the far North Side of Chicago) which read "SAVE SOVIET JEWS!" It survived until someone painted an addendum: "WIN VALUABLE PRIZES!"

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

O_O

Robusto

Hey, I just report the news, even if it's old news.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

14:39

I have some news: it's shower time.

Jason Marsh

15:15

My average TOEIC score is 850 / 990 =(

I wish I can get 900 or more

Warlock

Hello!

Very often when a person describes his point he asks the audience a question:
"Does it make sense?"
Is it correct to interpret it like "Is it understandable?"

@JasonMarsh My TOEIC is 600 and I wish I get 850 ;)

Jason Marsh

lol

Don't lie, come on!

To be honest, questions are extremely straight forward but while time is running out, you cannot accurately choose right answers =(

The test requires you to scheme text quickly

XD..

Warlock

15:31

yes, agree

By the way Jason could you recommend any materials for TOEIC?

Jason Marsh

Longman Preparation Series for the New TOEIC Test, More Practice Tests

Are you serious that your TOEIC score is 600?

or were you just joking =P..

Warlock

Unfortunately it's true :)

Jason Marsh

Damn

Well, you just need to practice

Warlock

Yes, I guess that I have this score because I have never prepared to this test :)

Jason Marsh

I figured out that TOEIC is more about becoming familiar with the test and improve your test taking ability but your overall English must be good enough in order to score more than 900

or something

Warlock

15:47

Is it possible to find a storage of free TOEIC tests?

maybe archive of old tests

Jason Marsh

I'm sure you can download them on Piratebay but I'd rather buy a actual book to make it feel closer to the real test, which is paper based.

Warlock

Yes, I see.

Jason Marsh

A lot of people are crap in English in Korea

Including myself. I hate when they speak English in public with strong Korean accent but try hard to sound like native speaker

hehe ...

LoL..

Warlock

This is because languages are very different, people are different and they think in different ways.

Jason Marsh

Don't you think grammar in that advertisement is wrong?

Shouldn't it be "If it was any more real, it would be real." ?? I don't know

Warlock

16:09

I prefer the "was" verb.

You told that you hate when people speak English in public with a strong accent, try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAo3I77zDk4
I like this video and hate the sport minister.

Jason Marsh

I like Russian-English accent

It sounds cool because it reminds of Call of Duty

And FPSRussia guy on Youtube

I wish I was born in Russia, and live in the middle of Siberia in a wood house... hunting bears and drinking Vodka all day...

I noticed that all those Russian English speakers from the video has British accent and no one speaks American accent =D...

Warlock

I wish MutkO from this video live in Siberia in a wood house and without Vodka :D

Jason Marsh

Mutko.. hmmm

Matsuko.. These two people have little bit similar name don't you agree?

Nevermind

Robusto

►

Jason Marsh

16:25

Anyways, I'm going to bed.. Krutaya tachka

Warlock

Good night, Jason. The tachka is cool! :D

Cerberus

16:58

Hello.

A woman is taken away in an ambulance.

I think she was hit by a scooter.

But she doesn't seem to be badly wounded.

Literally 1 m from me horizontally.

And 6 m below me.

Robusto

Well, I hope she's all right.

Cerberus

She's in the ambulance now. The police are questioning someone.

There are lots of accidents at this corner, but people drive fairly slowly, so I don't think people ever die.

How is you?

Have you seen this brilliant title?

english.stackexchange.com/questions/125776/grammer-correcation

"Grammer correcation". Alas, someone renamed the question.

Johan Larsson

@tchrist you had a baby?

Cerberus

*were

Johan Larsson

s/had/were?

Cerberus

17:09

I don't use the language of the Beast.

Johan Larsson

what language is that?

Cerberus

Whatever you were using there!

I bet you found it on the inside of a Ring...

Johan Larsson

I found it in chat actually, think it might be a Vim-command

Cerberus

Heh.

Well, there you go.

Vim is a beast.

Johan Larsson

I have never used it. Installed it once, but it felt like 1986 when starting it, so I did not even try it.

I get my commas wrong all the time

Cerberus

17:36

Haha great.

It is (in)famously short on GUI elements, isn't it?

I mean, I get why you want to have lots of hotkeys, sure. But there is no reason why you can't also have buttons and menus.

Johan Larsson

17:58

@Cerberus It looked like the dos-prompt to me.

Cerberus

Haha.

I seriously wonder what's behind it.

Snobbery? Some advantage beyond my comprehension?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…