English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:20

@MετάEd ハハハ

Which is a mom and a half.

KitFox

!!/jinx

Damn it.

@cornbread I left a message for her creator.

Cerberus

01:30

> A "file" is an analogy, and like all analogies, it's incomplete. It breaks down when taken too far, and then it must be discarded, because analogies only exist for our convenience.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@KitFox lowers eyelids, unbuttons blouse, puts finger to collarbone Thank you.

Robusto

@Cerberus It's an abstraction. Abstractions leak.

Cerberus

01:48

@Robusto I think you are referring to Joel's terminology?

Robusto

@Cerberus It's not his, exactly, though he uses it.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

It is indeed a related point.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

@Cerberus Do you even lift?

@KitFox Do you even lift?

Hahaha this is funny

KitFox

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Hey, any time.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

I found when you say this to someone they will get so mad at you

Cerberus

01:55

Lift what?

O0oO0oOO0ooO

gym exercise

It's similar to "You jelly"?

Cerberus

I have never heard anyone ask that in this way. Do you mean "do you lift weights?"?

No idea what "you jelly" would mean.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

a condescending expression used on body building and fitness forums to question the legitimacy of someone’s fitness expertise or weight lifting routine. Similar to other interrogatives like “U Mad?” or “U Jelly?”, the phrase is mainly used to aggravate another user during arguments about physical fitness.
John: There's no way you'll make it on the football team.

Brian: Bro, do you even lift?

Cerberus

I do not frequent body-building fora. Nor do I use the expression "U".

So I'm green as a pea.

Robusto

"Do you lift?" is a neutral expression unless the target obviously is a bodybuilder. Consider the question "Do you speak English?" Not bad when asked of someone in China, say, but insulting in London.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

02:02

oh

that's right

Cerberus

> Because the bulk of documents and discovery often lie with the defendant, plaintiffs can inflict maximum financial pain on a defendant, while producing relatively few documents themselves. This tilted playing field gives plaintiffs an unfair advantage. ...

> Unfortunately, the only option available to Veoh was to file a motion to recover fees after it won the case, even though this avenue was too little too late; the mortal damage was already inflicted [and the company out of funds and shut down]. Six years of combative litigation cannot be undone entirely by recovering legal fees. Yet, the standard for recovering fees is very high and Veoh was not successful.

> Instituting "loser pays" into the concept of commercial litigation in appropriate situations improves the chances for defendants, and could reduce meritless litigation.

— Winning But Losing: Lessons From An Internet StartUp

Sudhir

02:34

Hi @Cerberus

Good morning

MετάEd

03:01

@Robusto ☥FU♥র.

Cerberus

Hi.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hey. I have a NAS. it needs a name.

My current computer family is named Eternia, Cruithne, and Asterion.

Deceased computers include Ephemeron, Wook, and Smed.

Cerberus

Aww.

So what kind of a name are you looking for?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

i'm sure there are more deceased computers but I probably forgot them.

Cerberus

Greek mythology?

Tolkien?

Vance?

Man? Woman? Neuter?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

03:08

Something appropriate for a NAS. it stores lots of stuff.

Cerberus

Thesaurus?

It means "treatsure (chest)".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hmmmmmmmm

Silmaril!

thanks

Cerberus

Heh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

stores -> treasure chest-> silmaril

Cerberus

So your videos are the light of Laurelin?

Or what light did the silmarils hold?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

03:11

the two trees

Cerberus

Both in each silmaril?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I dunno. yes, I think so.

Cerberus

The only thing is that a silmaril is small.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

so is my NAS! It uses 2.5" drives

Cerberus

I'm not quite sure Tolkien imagined silmarils to be 2.5", but okay.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

03:18

I always assumed they were large for gems.

The books don't really say how big they were, except that an elf or man could enclose one in his hand.

And that Feanor used to wear them on his head.

So small, in absolute terms, but large, in gem terms. That's what I always imagined.

17

Q: How big were the Silmarils?

I was reading through the Silmarillion and came up with this question: Exactly how big were the Silmarils? I don't see even a single reference to their exact size. The references that I do see say an elf could carry and throw one easily, which is pretty vague. Another reference says that Morg...

Cerberus

Good luck wearing a 2.5" hard drive on your forehead. Perhaps you should hammer it into a pear shape first.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

oh, it's not the drive that is the Silmaril. It's the whole NAS.

Cerberus

More hammering.

Sudhir

@Cerberus: Would you mind if I use/used your mobile?

Cerberus

Meanwhile, I'm trying to think of a good way to program my mouse cursor to automatically move out of the way when I'm typing in Forefox.

Sudhir

03:23

Which is more apt?

Cerberus

@Sudhir Um, yes.

@Sudhir Both are OK.

"Used" is a bit more correct, but "use" is fine in a less than formal setting.

Sudhir

Can you pls explain which one to use at which condition?

Cerberus

"Use" also makes it more immediate: you're talking about using it right now, as a real option, whereas "used" could be an hypothetical situation.

Sudhir

@Cerberus: It'd be "an hypothetical" or "a hypothetical"?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir do you pronounce the H? then use "A".

Sudhir

03:29

No

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

no?

you don't pronounce the h?

Sudhir

We pronounce it as "H" not as "A".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No, I mean in words that start with H. If you pronounce the H then the article you should use is "a", not "an". If you drop the H then you should use "an".

Cerberus

But, if you're not sure, both options are OK here.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

In standard american and canadian english, an + h is basically not acceptable most of the time.

Cerberus

03:32

We're not American.

Anyway, @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 what condition(s) should I use to move the cursor when it's in the way?

Unfortunately, I cannot detect where the caret is in Firefox.

I could move it away after a sequence of {enter} {any letter}.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

how about hiding the cursor, then making it appear on mouse move?

that's what word processors do

Cerberus

Hiding it by default?

Hmm...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

no, I mean when you start typing, hide it.

Cerberus

So at any letter?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

sure

or any two letters

Cerberus

03:35

And unhide it after...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

mouse move

or delay

Cerberus

Hmm.

I could do that.

But I'm a bit scared. It would have to be 100 % reliable.

Hiding the cursor is quite intrusive: if it goes wrong, you have a big problem.

Sudhir

I would purchase a sports car if I had a million dollars.
OR
"I would have purchased a sports car if I had a million dollars."

Cerberus

The former.

Sudhir

@Cerberus: But my rule says if IF + Past perfect+ would have

eg. If I had found her address, I would have send her an invitation.

Cerberus

03:41

*sent

@Sudhir That's [form of have] + [past participle] in both clauses.

In your sports-car example, the second clause has no past participle, but the first clause does.

You can only do that if the second clause happens after the first clause; however, they should happen at the same time in your example.

Sudhir

'had' is not working as past participle in sports-car eg?

Cerberus

Nope.

It's a past finite verb.

Sudhir

@Cerberus: I'm not able to recognize past participle in both eg.

Cerberus

You can't have a past participle unless the same clause also has a finite verb.

Would have purchased: would = finite verb; have = infinitive; purchased = past participle.

In your second clause, there is only this verb: had = finite verb.

(Almost) every full clause must have a finite verb.

So, if there is only one verb in a certain full clause, then it must be a finite verb.

Sudhir

In second sentence: first clause : found past participle and second clause: sent. Am I right?

Cerberus

03:51

Correct!

Sudhir

So we used [form of have] + [past participle] in both clauses

rule.

Am I right?

Cerberus

Correct!

Sudhir

Sorry!

I've edited.

Cerberus

So have I.

Sudhir

Thanks for clearing my doubt.

:)

Cerberus

03:53

It was a pleasure!

Sudhir

It always bites me.

Cerberus

So you could fix the second version of your first example by saying, I would have purchased a sports car if I had had a million dollars.

But, in casual speech, I wouldn't be surprised if you heard the "wrong" variant.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

it's late, I'm going to sign off. cya

Cerberus

Bye.

Sudhir

@Cerberus:what's time at your end?

Cerberus

03:55

It's almost 6 am. So it's bed time!

Good afternoon to you.

Sudhir

Its fresh morning here.

Sun is hiding behind clouds.

Cerberus

Is it hot?

Sudhir

Temp is cool today bringing respite from scorching heat.

Cerberus

Good.

How hot was it?

Sudhir

Its too hot.

Cerberus

03:57

It's going to be 38 degrees here on Wednesday, they say.

Sudhir

around 40C

Cerberus

Yikes.

Sudhir

Sun heat is not bearable.

Cerberus

The all-time record temperature here since—I don't know, 1500, is 38 °C, so we may get a new record.

Yeah, it's much worse in the sun.

Sudhir

So its 38 degree at your end?

its frustrating then

Cerberus

03:59

It may be 38 on Wednesday. Now it's fine, 23 degrees max yesterday.

Today is going to be 25 or so.

Sudhir

that's awesome temp

Cerberus

20 is my favourite temperature on normal days, maybe 25 when I'm on vacation and not moving.

20 when I'm walking around a city. I'm assuming sun.

Sudhir

We love that temp.

But its goes to 45 here in summer.

uff...

Cerberus

So does everyone! Why don't we make the whole planet 20 degree all year round, day and night?

45 is unbearable.

We once had 43 in Italy. In the sun, it was 68 degrees.

Sudhir

We don't have AC so it causes a lot of irritation at 40.

Cerberus

04:02

Neither do we.

Because it's cool most of the year.

Sudhir

Ya I know.

Cerberus

Although I would love to have it!

Sudhir

Its great place to live.

Cerberus

We also have lots of cold and rain...

Walking around town when everything is covered in ice is not fun.

Sudhir

In morning we've some drizzles.

Cerberus

04:03

It's dangerous, even.

But I have to go to bed.

Good day!

Sudhir

so you're going to sleep?

Cerberus

Yup.

Bye!

Sudhir

Bye!
Sweet dreams.

take care

Sudhir

04:36

m

O0oO0oOO0ooO

05:51

Guys

Since engineers get paid the most

can I call myself "English Literature engineer"?

I saw a profession called "Graphic design engineer" before

O0oO0oOO0ooO

06:11

abs can go through bullets

Johan Larsson

09:35

@O0oO0oOO0ooO Who says that?

O0oO0oOO0ooO

When you are eating a sandwich or something similar, do you rate the food by how many bites it takes to get to meat section?

I saw a guy who blames his food because it takes more than 1 bites to taste core (meat) section

Johan Larsson

never looked at it that way

O0oO0oOO0ooO

@JohanLarsson It was a website owned by a web designer and he called himself "web design engineer"

but I forgot the URL

Robusto

12:31

> The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed. — William Gibson

KitFox

haha

Matt Эллен

12:46

nags @KitFox

Cerberus

12:59

@Cerberus, that's not an answer. If you don't know the answer, STFU. ;) — d-_-b 5 hours ago

Hello, roomlings.

RegDwighт

Haaai.

Cerberus

Hello, Beatrix.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus what an unpleasant fellow

Hello

RegDwighт

Hello een beetje dom.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Quite.

RegDwighт

13:01

He did add a smiley.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт So your spirit inhabits Máxima now, eh?

@RegDwighт Yes. Even weirder.

He probably thinks he's funny.

RegDwighт

The funniest thing is, the top answer has been saying the same thing in even stronger words.

3

A: Putting User Directory on Mapped Network Drive on Windows 7

This is a bad idea. The problem is that mapped drives vary by user, and so drive E: cannot exist until after you've already logged in and loaded your profile. You might get it working via UNC path (\server\share), but I still don't recommend this. A better alternative would be using Roaming Prof...

> This is a bad idea.

Cerberus

That question is three years old anyway.

@RegDwighт Exactly.

RegDwighт

Looks like he didn't want to fck around with a 17k user.

Cerberus

But poor little Cerberus...

Is it also stupidly hot in your Bundesland?

Weather forecasts and even actual reported temperatures are off.

RegDwighт

13:06

Our Bundesland is the stupidly hottest one right now, in point of fact.

With BaWü a close second.

Cerberus

Ugh.

It's 28 here.

You?

RegDwighт

39.

Matt Эллен

how odd. It's but 21 °C here

RegDwighт

Matt Эллен

are you in the UAE, @Reg?

RegDwighт

13:09

So you have to be a "star architect" to come up with that shit?

Cerberus

Wow, seriously?

They said it was going to be 38 tomorrow here...

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен way too much green.

Matt Эллен

it's only 37 C in Dubai!

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен well to be fair you're not even in Europe.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Modern architects suck. Most of their buildings are extremely repetitive and made from cheap and ugly materials.

Matt Эллен

13:10

True. except geologically

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Only 37? Wow.

RegDwighт

Speaking of shit,

Cerberus

And they have A/C everywhere.

RegDwighт

I would shit myself right then and there.

Matt Эллен

I want it

Cerberus

13:10

Ugh.

Horrible.

Matt Эллен

aren't large slabs of granite / marble classical, @Cerb?

RegDwighт

You look down and you see a concrete desert. You look up and you see passenger planes approaching. Fuck that.

Cerberus

A hospital bathroom for the nouveau-riche, is what it is.

@RegDwighт No, the planes are also down.

@MattЭллен In a huge hall or temple, yes.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus oh, thank God. So I'm guaranteed not to make it to the first floor.

Cerberus

And some marble is OK in a bathroom.

MετάEd

13:12

@Cerberus Dive! Dive!

Cerberus

@MετάEd Too late. Oh, you meant the planes? They don't need to, they can't miss you.

RegDwighт

This is how I like my marble.

MετάEd

@Cerberus It's a submarine joke.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Sure, if you need a hallway that large...

Matt Эллен

You'd think Cerb would get it, given that he is sub marine

Cerberus

13:14

@MετάEd Ah, one of those classical submarine jokes...

RegDwighт

@Cerberus that's a metro station.

Cerberus

Nice.

MετάEd

@RegDwighт A submarine station?

Cerberus

Is it in Moscow?

RegDwighт

It's not even the nicest.

Yes, in Moscow of course.

I just searched for the first name I could think of. There are others that make this one look like a piece of crap.

Cerberus

13:14

I knew it.

RegDwighт

So anyway. That's where marble goes.

Cerberus

I wonder why they didn't make the Petersburg metro like that.

RegDwighт

I'm so used to marble from public places from my childhood, I wouldn't want to have it in my bathroom.

Cerberus

Hey, was Moscow every severely bombed?

@RegDwighт Of course.

RegDwighт

Severely? I don't know. Bombed? Very much so.

In fact the metro stations, including the one pictured above, were used as bomb shelters.

Cerberus

13:16

Well, marble is all right in a bathroom; just not like that picture.

@RegDwighт Ah OK.

So were many buildings near the inner city destroyed?

RegDwighт

I do not know. I do know they didn't pull off any of that Dresden shit.

Anyway, I'm desperately trying to get on topic again.

When I see that bathroom, I wonder from which direction the next train is approaching.

It's so engraved in my brain.

0

Q: Are all words nouns?

A noun is a 'name' assigned to a particular person, place or a thing. Does that make every word a noun, since each word, be it a verb, adjective or anything else is also a 'name' for that idea? For example, the word jump is by definition a verb. But, 'jump' is the name assigned to the act of push...

grammar nouns technical

Oh come on.

Why off-topic? That's not off-topic. That's the very definition of rhetorical.

Matt Эллен

it's off topic because it's not about English

it's about language, but any language that has nouns

Cerberus

It is about a misconception of what a noun is.

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен Well obviously it's many things. But off-topic means "you can go ahead and ask that nonsense question elsewhere". While NARQ means "please do not go ahead and do unto others as you have done unto us".

Matt Эллен

Fair eough.

RegDwighт

13:21

I mean, it's gen-ref as well. But first and foremost it's common sense.

Cerberus

If he had asked it differently, it might be an OK question about the history of terminology.

Why was the word "noun" chosen for nouns?

RegDwighт

Why was the word "car" chosen for cars?

Matt Эллен

because noün could think of anything better

RegDwighт

I dunno, we can't have that question for every word in existence.

Cerberus

There is enough you could say about this.

For example, noun is a bastardisation of Latin nomen.

RegDwighт

13:24

That's in every etymological dictionary.

Cerberus

Then the question becomes, why did the Romans pick nomen?

Matt Эллен

and nomen can kill the witch king

2

RegDwighт

That's on-topic on Latin Language and Usage.

Cerberus

And that was because the Greeks had onoma.

RegDwighт

And that's for Greek Language and Usage.

Cerberus

13:25

And so you could describe the history of the word.

RegDwighт

...as does every etymological dictionary.

Cerberus

Not very extensively.

RegDwighт

Much more extensively than you have just done.

Cerberus

It doesn't explain why the Greeks picked onoma, and what could be a reason that makes sense.

RegDwighт

Anyway. We are wasting bytes.

Cerberus

13:27

Ugh, they're raised the age where you can buy alcohol to 18 years. So stupid.

Matt Эллен

in Amsterdam?

Cerberus

Everyone knows it won't make any difference.

In the entire country.

What is it in England?

Matt Эллен

18

has been for a long time

Cerberus

And do all kids drink at 16/17?

Matt Эллен

earlier if possible

Cerberus

13:28

Especially the ones who are most likely to drink too much, right?

So you're only stopping the meek, wise kids who wouldn't drink too much anyway.

Matt Эллен

but it is legal to buy alcohol for a 16 year old in a pub if they're having a meal (I think, although that might also have gone by the wayside)

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus I'd also say earlier 13/14

Cerberus

Then why on earth do governments make these laws?

@MattЭллен Ah, much better.

Matt Эллен

the illusion of control and doing something "to protect the children"

Cerberus

Fucking stupid.

They all smoke pot too, which was never legal under 18.

Matt Эллен

13:30

It's long been known that if children are allowed to drink and taught responsibly by their parents then binge drinking decreases.

Cerberus

Yeah.

But you can't change that as a government.

Matt Эллен

although, these days all the adults (in the UK) grew up as bingers

Cerberus

Ugh.

Matt Эллен

so who knows what will happen

Cerberus

A brainless generation?

Matt Эллен

13:31

:D maybe just sodden

more prone to accidents

Cerberus

Heh.

Matt Эллен

perhaps then there will be a more relaxed generation after mine, where they see the problems and advantages of alcohol and can choose wisely

but probably not

Cerberus

Haha.

Probably not.

Then again, the problem of alcohol is as old as civilisation.

Matt Эллен

true, true

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Have you considered whether or not the laws actually have any effect? I mean, one's perception of reality is not always 100% accurate.

Matt Эллен

13:36

I don't think our government's puritanical mindset helps any

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

ISTR reading that raising the drinking age actually reduces drinking.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 especially if one is drunk

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 From what I've read, laws have little or no proven effect. Consider how the French have always used more softdrugs than people here.

Someone once posted an article here about drinking, but I think we dissected that thoroughly, and it seemed an unreliable piece of propaganda against drinking.

Some random data.

camy.org/factsheets/sheets/Prevalence_of_Underage_Drinking.html

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

but it's difficult to compare other countries where lots of things are different. Culture plays a huge part in it.

Cerberus

Exactly.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:45

even in Canada, there are sub-cultures that have major alcohol problems. They have stricter laws to deal with those communities.

Cerberus

The drinking age has very little influence, if any.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus so my point is that a lower drinking age in France doesn't say anything about what raising the drinking age in NL will accomplish.

Cerberus

Yeah.

It's all symbolic action.

I am unaware of any real experiment where the drinking age was raising in one city but not in a neighbouring city, and what happened to binge-drinking of kids between those drinking ages over 10 years.

Matt Эллен

one thing that was tested was raising the minimum price of a unit of alcohol. apparently that helps reduce binging in some Scottish cities

Cerberus

Sure. I'm all for that.

Although 3/4 of the price is already taxes, I believe.

Matt Эллен

13:50

yeah, it is pretty steep

Cerberus

But I have to run.

Happy drinking!

Matt Эллен

I have to sit. CU!

@Cerberus s/happy/heavy/ :D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Some studies have reported drops in alcohol-related car crashes after raising the drinking age. sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080701083542.htm

Here's one that suggests that teenagers in US states where the drinking age was lowered from 21 were more likely to grow up to be binge drinkers later news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/24886.aspx

KitFox

@MattЭллен I was going to start it yesterday, but work! And today work!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The younger you are, the more likely you are to become an addict and the harder it is to quit.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…