English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

JSBձոգչ

16:00

my grandmother is here

gotta go

Matt Эллен

CU

KitFox

I am having a real problem with my mouse. The left button is not functioning consistently.

It's lunchtime, so maybe I'll pop over to the computer place and see if I can get a new one.

Andrew Leach

Time to go and see Mordac for a new one.

KitFox

!!google Mordac

KitSox

@KitFox search.dilbert.com/comic/Mordac%20The%20Preventer ; dilbert.com/strips/?CharIDs=15&After=01/01/… ; search.dilbert.com/comic/Mordac%20Security

KitFox

16:06

Oh right.

That makes me feel so good inside.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yu Jiaao

what is a waterboard?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@YuJiaao a form of torture

!!wiki waterboarding

KitSox

Waterboarding

Waterboarding is a form of torture in which water is poured over a cloth covering the face and breathing passages of an immobilized captive, causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning. Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage, and death. Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years. The term water board torture a...

Yu Jiaao

woh

JSBձոգչ

16:30

@KitSox is even more capable than I had previously suspected

@KitSox how do i query your verbs?

!!help

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ github.com/KitFox/SO-ChatBot/wiki/Interacting-with-the-bot

Matt Эллен

!!listcommands

KitSox

@MattЭллен help, listen, eval, coffee, live, die, refresh, forget, ban, unban, info, jquery, choose, user, lego, legopart, listcommands, norris, parentuser, urban, parse, tell, mdn, afk, awsm, color, convert, define, findcommand, fuckable, get, github, google, hang, inhistory, learn, mustache, nudge, spec, stat, summon, unsummon, timer, todo, undo, weather, welcome, wiki, xkcd, youtube (page 0/0)

Andrew Leach

Is the one which stands out safe for work?

KitFox

Yes.

JSBձոգչ

16:31

!!coffee

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ "undefined"

JSBձոգչ

@KitSox that's a terrible kind of coffee

!!jquery

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ api.jquery.com/?s=

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ I hadn't seen that one yet. Let me see what it is supposed to do.

Matt Эллен

!!help fuckable

JSBձոգչ

16:32

!!jquery css

KitSox

@MattЭллен fuckable: Calculates the lower boundary according to age/2+7 rule. /fuckable age

@JSBձոգչ api.jquery.com/css

JSBձոգչ

!!help coffee

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ coffee: Forwards message to coffeescript code-eval

KitFox

Oh.

Matt Эллен

!!fuckable 27

KitSox

16:32

@MattЭллен A person that age can shag down to 20.5, and is the lower limit of a person of 40 years.

KitFox

That's not very interesting.

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox but still, "coffee"

we should reprogram it to do something more interesting

KitFox

True.

That sounds good.

JSBձոգչ

!!fuckable 31

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ A person that age can shag down to 22.5, and is the lower limit of a person of 48 years.

KitFox

16:33

!!fuckable 37

KitSox

@KitFox A person that age can shag down to 25.5, and is the lower limit of a person of 60 years.

JSBձոգչ

sounds about right for me

just gotta go find me some 22.5 year olds

KitFox

Good lord. I know 60 year olds. Ick.

JSBձոգչ

i know some 48-year-olds that i wouldn't consider unfuckable

KitFox

> Just added the magic words "with recompile" to [slow sproc].

What does that mean? That's something I should know, I guess.

JSBձոգչ

16:34

i have no idea

Matt Эллен

I don't know either

KitFox

Oh, I'm really uncomfortable with that.

JSBձոգչ

!!color red

@KitFox with which?

KitSox

Matt Эллен

lol

KitFox

16:36

Image not found?

JSBձոգչ

!!help color

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ color: Displays the color(s) passed in. /color color0[ color1[ ...]]

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ My boss changed my sproc in a way that I don't understand.

JSBձոգչ

and going to that link goes somewhere very sketchy

Matt Эллен

!!color teal

KitSox

16:36

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox does it work better now?

!!color #ffaa66

KitSox

KitFox

I am checking.

Andrew Leach

!!color ff aa 66

KitSox

KitFox

16:37

Can you guys see those?

JSBձոգչ

so help me god i'm about to check out this bot and make the changes myself

Matt Эллен

I don't think that site works anymore

JSBձոգչ

but where is it actually hosted?

KitFox

It's my fork. You are welcome to play with her.

github.com/KitFox/SO-ChatBot

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox are you hosting her?

KitFox

16:39

You mean the chat user that runs the script? Yes.

If you make changes you should use !!refresh.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist We've had plenty of rain this November. No bells, though. And I liked your pastes very much. I'm going to use them for callig practice.

@KitFox no'm

KitFox

Actually, you might need permissions for that. Try it now, I'll check.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox nope

!!refresh

KitSox

@MattЭллен I'm afraid I can't let you do that, Matt Эллен

KitFox

Oh, well, uh.

I guess she can tell you herself.

Matt Эллен

16:43

CU l8r

KitFox

Noooooo!!!!!

Have fun.

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox what i mean is, if i push changes will you pull them and rebuild the bot?

KitFox

Yes, sure.

JSBձոգչ

simply making changes to my local repos obviously doesn't do anything

KitFox

Well, yeah. Which is why you should push your changes and then refresh.

Except I guess only mods can refresh the bot.

JSBձոգչ

16:46

oh well then i'll just hardcode myself into the admin list :P

KitFox

Please do.

Oh! Oh! They are checking my references, btw. The place where I interviewed.

JSBձոգչ

i love it when i google how do do something in windows command-line, and half the instructions are about how to open cmd.exe

KitFox

Really? That seems odd. If you can't open the terminal, you probably oughtn't be using it.

I am torn about taking this 'recompile' statement out of this sproc.

I feel like it shouldn't be there.

But my boss put it in...

JSBձոգչ

there are lots of things that can be done quickly from the command line that are difficult or impossible to do through regular gui

so there's a decent number of pages which explain how to do these things, which consist mostly of grandparent-friendly explanations of how to open cmd.exe

(in my case i was trying to remember how to flush my dns)

KitFox

I don't think I know how to do that. The only ones I ever remember are ipconfig release and renew.

JSBձոգչ

16:52

ipconfig /flushdns

KitFox

Well that's simple enough.

Hey, do you know anything about schema-bound views?

I bet @Mr.Shiny would know.

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox nope, sorry

KitFox

I think I probably ought to build the index against the tables, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't make more sense to try to build it on the view instead.

I'm really kind of wandering in my thinking today.

Waiting for a job offer.

JSBձոգչ

you can index a view?

KitFox

Trying to stay focused.

JSBձոգչ

16:54

i would just index the tables, it'll accomplish the same thing

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ You can, if it's bound to the tables, hence schema-bound views.

In reality, I'm trying to figure out the best way to optimize a whole crapload of outer joins.

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox denormalize?

KitFox

I figured indices were a good place to start.

Andrew Leach

Right, I'm off. Best of luck with it all (references etc).

KitFox

Thanks!

JSBձոգչ

16:56

@KitFox yeah, start there before you renormalize

KitFox

It's for a data view where there are bunches of things that are optional and stored in separate tables.

I could probably have done this more thoughtfully.

KitFox

17:52

Well, I've shaved 20s off this ridiculously long-running query.

Matt Эллен

18:13

yay!

KitFox

Also, I just wrote 238 words.

> Nicene shifted. “We were looking for you.” Mig winced slightly and looked away, and Rook suddenly understood.

Can you guess the implication of Mig's discomfiture there?

JSBձոգչ

She's fatally attracted to Nicene?

i love those names, BTW

!!

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ Are you excited? Or did you need help with my workings?

KitFox

Mig and Rook are guys in this story.

JSBձոգչ

!!help

KitSox

18:15

@JSBձոգչ github.com/KitFox/SO-ChatBot/wiki/Interacting-with-the-bot

KitFox

But thanks.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox butt plug? uncomfortable erection?

KitFox

Oh, there's not enough context there.

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox obviously Mig didn't want to be found

i can't tell what he was doing

KitFox

Rook first says to Mig "What are you thinking, bringing her out here?"

JSBձոգչ

18:17

oh, well Mig was getting lucky with the girl

that's the obvious one

KitFox

So the "we" is Nicene and Mig, and the "you" is Rook.

@JSBձոգչ OK, good. I wasn't sure it was obvious.

JSBձոգչ

sex is always obvious

it's the obvious non-obvious option

KitFox

I wanted the implication to be that Mig never really meant to help her find Rook.

JSBձոգչ

for basically everything

KitFox

hahaha

JSBձոգչ

18:19

@KitFox i just pulled your git repo

(dirty!)

KitFox

hawt

JSBձոգչ

now i have to learn how to git

KitFox

Me too.

JSBձոգչ

git clone was literally the first git command i ever wrote

KitFox

I have yet to write one.

I am so slack.

In case anyone asks, I am optimizing a query right now.

JSBձոգչ

18:23

okay, so what hilarious commands should we add to our chatbot?

actually, first let's fix that color thing

Johan Larsson

18:35

@MattЭллен Do you know the wpf treeviewcontrol?

KitFox

I know it a little. Can I help?

Johan Larsson

What event can I use that signals when the subitems changes?

I'm binding a datagrid to a treeview trying to make a treedgirdview

KitFox

What is causing the subitems to change?

JSBձոգչ

!!weather

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ See /help weather for usage info

JSBձոգչ

18:38

!!help weather

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ weather: Gets current weather: /weather (lan, lon) or /weather city

JSBձոգչ

!!weather Fargo, ND

KitSox

@JSBձոգչ Fargo: 40.9999F (5C, 278.15K), overcast clouds

Johan Larsson

@KitFox Expand collapse for example but I can't use TreeViewItem.Expanded cos it fires before the containers are generated

JSBձոգչ

i adore that it gives you the temperature in Kelvins

KitFox

18:39

@JohanLarsson Hmm.

Johan Larsson

I should ask a q on SO-proper

Always hesitate to do it for some reason

KitFox

I don't blame you.

I only know a couple of events for treeview.

It seems like you want the OnExpanded Event though.

Or something like that. Not Expanded, which would be a property, wouldn't it?

I'm sorry. I'm not helpful here.

Johan Larsson

I tried with the attached event TreeViewItem.Expanded="TreeViewItem_Expanded"but it fires too early

JSBձոգչ

okay, so the node.js on my server is too old to compile this

so i'm updating my computer so that i can compile the node.js so that i can play with the chatbot

SEE WHAT YOU'VE MADE ME DO?

KitFox

grins furtively

JSBձոգչ

18:47

AND NOW I'M LEARNING ABOUT GIT

curse you @KitSox! Curse you!

KitSox

Don't blame me. I'm just a bot.

KitFox

@JohanLarsson So the nodes are expanded before you bind the data?

JSBձոգչ

@KitSox likely story

KitFox

I'm looking at my treeview code now.

Johan Larsson

@KitFox I have a conveter that flattens the (visual)tree but using expanded misses elements the first time a node is expanded

KitFox

18:49

It looks awful. I guess I'm hopeless at recursion.

@JohanLarsson Selected, maybe?

I have a Selected and a SelectAction that might be useful.

Johan Larsson

hmm, selected does not sound like a 100% match

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson if you're using mvvm bind to PropertyChanged of your model

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен but how?

KitFox

Oh, there's a OnBeforeExpand/OnAfterExpand that might do something.

Matt Эллен

oh, do you mean when you change which item you've selected?

KitFox

18:53

But Matt knows stuff! And he is here!

Distract him while I catch up my word count!

Matt Эллен

yes! but only for a bit. I should have gone out already :D

Johan Larsson

this is the converter btw.

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson bind to the SelectedItem property

Johan Larsson

@KitFox where did you find afterexpanded? Are you using the wpf treeview?

Matt Эллен

so in your viewmodel you'll have a property something like

private _selectedThingamy
public Thingamy SelectedThingamy{
get{return _selectedThingamy;}
set
{
    _selectedThingamy = value;
   PropertyChanged(this, new PropertyChangedEventArgs("SelectedThingamy");
}
}

KitFox

18:55

@JohanLarsson Uh, I'm not, but it had it in the docs for wpf treeview too. I thought. On msdn.

@MattЭллен I like it when you do that.

Matt Эллен

and on your treeview you'll have a property like

<Treeview SelectedItem="{Binding SelectedThingamy, Mode=TwoWay}"...

Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен that would be a master detail scenario?

KitFox

How far should I let things go between these two teenagers?

And do I really need moar coffee?

Johan Larsson

I want a datagrid showing the same rows that are visible in the treeview

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson I don't know :D what is one of those?

@JohanLarsson so you bind to the same viewmodel in the data grid, maybe?

Johan Larsson

19:00

@MattЭллен Show details for the selected item

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson well, it would allow you to do something whenever the selected item changed.

so, in the set code, you can call some other method

but if you just want to show the selecteditem's details in the grid view, then bind the gridview to the selected item

Johan Larsson

yeah that would be straightforward

Matt Эллен

sorry, sir. time for me to fly

KitFox

Have fun!

Cerberus

19:24

KitFox

Cute.

JSBձոգչ

i think that the answer is something trivial

like "1"

KitFox

I think it's -4.

But it's been ages since I've done that kind of math.

MετάEd

@MattЭллен So thingamy is when you take a skinny mate?

KitFox

Or 0. It might be zero. There's no actual range specified.

MετάEd

19:29

It's 0.

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ 0

KitFox

4sin(-pi/2) = -4, right?

MετάEd

@Cerberus You've just proved you're unhuman.

@KitFox sin -π/2 = 0.

JSBձոգչ

i made no attempt to actually evaluate, or even understand the expression

Cerberus

@MετάEd !

π

KitFox

19:32

Bloody hell.

Cerberus

(Someone posted this saying "there should be captcha's like this before you're allowed to download a ROM and brick your phone".)

MετάEd

Humans evaluate. Members of the dog family use Wolfram Alpha.

KitFox

wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sin%28-pi%2F2%29&lk=4

Nuh-uh. I was right.

So, ha!

Cerberus

woof

MετάEd

It's Google vs. Wolfram Alpha. Now I'm going to have to actually think. Dammit.

KitFox

19:34

Sine wave starts at 0.

MετάEd

Oh, no I don't have to think after all. It's a grouping problem in Google Calculate.

KitFox

pi/2 is 90 degrees, which is one.

Well, the peak.

Cerberus

MετάEd

google.com/search?q=sin+(+-pi+%2F+2+)+%3D

KitFox

I guess I haven't forgotten everything after all.

MετάEd

19:35

@KitFox You win.

KitFox

Thank you. feels smug

JSBձոգչ

19:48

@KitFox it looks like you did some things wrong with the current head of KitSox

namely, it looks like you edited master.js directly

which means that a recompile blows away your changes

(i'm speculating based on what i see in the depot)

... but maybe not

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

20:10

Suspicions, I has them:

1

Q: Would Like To, Or Would

The word "would" is causing me problems in this passage: source "Hopefully India with its relationship could help urge the new Iranian leadership -- as well as the old leadership, the supreme leader -- to take advantage of this moment," Kerry told a joint news conference. "We would call...

KitFox

20:27

@JSBձոգչ Oh, right. I hadn't considered that.

JSBձոգչ

i think that your changes to master.js should have been i source/commands.js

KitFox

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I'm not sure.

JSBձոգչ

master.js gets compiled from the stuff in source/

KitFox

I don't really know how to manage this kind of thing.

Which is one reason why I was playing with it.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@KitFox OK.

KitFox

20:30

You're probably right.

@JSBձոգչ So did you destroy all my changes?

JSBձոգչ

i don't think so

i don't have rights to push to the master repos

you'd have to pull from me

KitFox

I think I only made three.

@JSBձոգչ Can I give you those?

JSBձոգչ

i assume so, but having never used git i don't know how

you could add 'jaspax' with commit permissions on the master branch

for example

KitFox

looks

Hey, also, I should find a way to test the script intelligently.

I added you as a collaborator.

Cerberus

Hey, I have a question for you furriners.

Do your laws all come with what we call "memories van toelichting", which are basically commentaries explaining the motivation behind a law and how each article should be interpreted?

KitFox

20:37

@JSBձոգչ I will make my changes in the source then, and then recompile. That's the correct order?

@Cerberus We have precedent.

Not really the same thing, but kind of.

JSBձոգչ

if you use publi.sh it should do this automatically

KitFox

How do I use publi.sh?

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus i'm not aware of anything explicitly of the sort, at least not for laws

Cerberus

Yeah that's not the same thing.

JSBձոգչ

the decisions of the Supreme Court come with commentary, though

the decision per se is usually very short

Cerberus

20:39

Okay, so does a judge have anything other than the article itself to base his interpretation on?

JSBձոգչ

but it is accompanied by a lengthly commentary written but one of the judges that explains their reasoning

KitFox

Not just the Supreme Court. Other courts have those too.

JSBձոգչ

generally all appellate courts have commentaries on their decisions

KitFox

@Cerberus What article?

Cerberus

Of course courts will explain their verdicts, but I'm interesting parliament.

JSBձոգչ

20:39

@Cerberus if by "article" you mean a law passed by Congress, then the answer is "no"

Cerberus

@KitFox An article of law.

KitFox

No.

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Not even the minutes?

JSBձոգչ

there are records of congressional proceedings and political statements, etc. which can establish what the legislators were thinking

KitFox

The law, and the Constitution, and precedent.

JSBձոգչ

20:40

but these have no legal weight at all

KitFox

And judges don't care about what legislators intended.

JSBձոգչ

right. american jurisprudence pretty solidly disavows using the thinking of the legislators as a guide to interpretation

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Hmm I see. So they have no legal weight; but do judges regularly consult them?

JSBձոգչ

no

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Huh, why is that?

JSBձոգչ

20:42

i've never even heard of it

@Cerberus i don't really know. ask a lawyer.

there is the "original intent" school of constitutional interpretation, but that's not a majority view, and it's basically never applied to recent legislation

KitFox

Because what matters is what is written, not what is thought.

Cerberus

Does British law work the same way?

The "spirit of the law" is a common expression everywhere, I believe.

KitFox

I really don't understand how to use publi.sh. Where am I supposed to run it? I guess I should figure out how the command line works.

JSBձոգչ

run it from the command line

KitFox

@Cerberus Sure.

Cerberus

20:45

You have to go along with what you think was the intention of the legislator to some degree for a law to be meaningful, but apparently American law does not want judges to go very far in this.

JSBձոգչ

./publi.sh "comment describing this commit"

will pack up all of the changes in your repo and post them to your origin

KitFox

I would do that from the directory that contains publi.sh, I would assume?

Cerberus

One function of memories van toelichting is what I believe is called "legal certainty": you know what to expect when a judge is going to apply laws to a case.

KitFox

In my local repo?

Sorry to be so dense. I'm learning.

@Cerberus Except your judges can render whatever verdict they feel like, can't they?

Cerberus

No?

KitFox

20:51

It seems to me that I recall you saying that your judges can exercise "common sense" or something.

Cerberus

They have more freedom to apply the spirit of the law, I guess, also partly because they have the memorie van toelichting to build on.

I guess it's harder to apply "common sense" without legal uncertainty if you have no memorie van toelichting and you just have to make do with the bare text.

Then maybe you'd have too much freedom as a judge.

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox i pushed to the repos!

KitFox

Great!

JSBձոգչ

now you should recompile and see if it picks up my changes

KitFox

!!refresh

JSBձոգչ

20:54

that only refreshes the plugin

KitFox

Oh, I thought you recompiled.

JSBձոգչ

i don't think i pushed master.js

KitFox

Um, OK.

JSBձոգչ

i'm still new to this

KitFox

So. How do I do that? I was just going to try doing the thing from the command line in my local repo.

JSBձոգչ

20:55

mebbe i did do it

!!color 00ff00

KitFox

Well, what did you do?

Oh.

JSBձոգչ

i modified the color command

kitsox doesn't seem to be worked now

i brokeded it

KitFox

You broke her!

!!hi

JSBձոգչ

noooooooo

KitFox

@JSB!

JSBձոգչ

20:56

i need a test sox

KitFox

fixitfixitfixit!

@JSBձոգչ She is a test sox!

JSBձոգչ

ummmmmmm

KitSox

I have a syntax error.

JSBձոգչ

there's a way to roll this back

KitFox

She's trying, but she can't establish a connection because of something screwy.

She's posting a lot.

She might get blocked.

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