English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

halirutan

19:00

Hi. Short question:

KitFox

Fovea?

halirutan

Yep

How would you call the shape in the center?

Peaked?

KitFox

Invagination.

halirutan

Peakish. Sharp. Spikey?

let me explain this a bit.

KitFox

Sorry, I can't think about the retina like that.

To me, it's an invagination.

halirutan

19:02

Usually this is refered as the foveal pit but there are different forms.

the one above is a birds fovea and it is more peaked/spikey/.. than a normal one which looks like

KitFox

Oh, I see. you want some way of describing the difference in the shapes of the macular regions?

halirutan

Yes

KitFox

I think peaked or maybe acute.

Sharp or spikey conveys the wrong feel, but peaked feels like the wrong direction to me.

Peaked seems like you mean it sticks up.

Steep?

halirutan

Steep would be ok but

the problem is, that it could be steep without ending in a small pit.

KitFox

I understand.

halirutan

19:08

It could look like a pot.. very steep walls, but a very flat pit.

KitFox

It's a more conical pit, but that could be confusing.

halirutan

uff... and I should decide this as a German.. ;-)

tchrist

Somebody please merge/dup/syn the concord and agreement tags together. Please. Or should I post to Mετά?

KitFox

@halirutan Do you need a single word, or would a brief description suffice?

halirutan

a description would be fine.

Something were I get a feeling for how a native speaker would say it.

KitFox

19:10

Well, I used to do primate vision research, so maybe I can help.

halirutan

@KitFox This is funny. I log in here to ask about a bird fovea and instantly someone is doing vision research on primates. Unbelievable.

tchrist

Not many trichromats amongst the primates.

Present company (presumably) excepted.

KitFox

@halirutan Not doing. Did. About a decade ago.

I'm trying to think how I would have described the difference.

tchrist

What did you learn?

If that were a landform, what would it be?

halirutan

@KitFox I think I will try a combination of peaked, steep and conical.

KitFox

19:13

The avian fovea is generally narrower than the mammalian fovea.

Maybe?

MετάEd

@KitFox I am now paying attention.

KitFox

Or the mammalian umm...floor of the fovea...is broader than it is in birds?

tchrist

Are we talking about the entire thing, or the difference between the foveola and the surrounding fovea?

KitFox

Foveola. That's the word I was trying to think of.

halirutan

@KitFox The oposite of broader is more narrow here, right?

KitFox

19:15

@tchrist I think he means the entire macular region.

tchrist

Easy to remember: rhymes with aureola.

KitFox

@halirutan Yes. Flatter and broader.

tchrist

Shallower?

KitFox

It's not really shallower.

The layers are pretty much the same, if I recall correctly.

halirutan

@KitFox Yes.

tchrist

19:16

Humans have no rods in their foveola. I think the distribution of cones differs, too.

KitFox

@tchrist Birds don't have rods there either.

Well, I don't think they do.

tchrist

Avians can have extremely acute vision.

Plus I believe they are tetrachromats.

KitFox

The organization of the fovea is pretty consistent across species, but the size and shape varies.

halirutan

@KitFox Thank you. Let me think of some sentence and maybe I ping you later to tell you the final result.

@KitFox The count varies too.

tchrist

Well, across all species that have a common ancestor in whom the eye developed exactly once for that clade, I presume.

halirutan

19:18

Birds have 2 foveas.

KitFox

@halirutan Oh right! I forgot about that.

tchrist

I suspect that humans, dragonflies, and octopodes all have different foveae, since there is no common ocular progenitor between them.

But I don’t know.

KitFox

@tchrist Some are, but not all.

tchrist

Plus just saying they are tri- or tetrachromats doesn’t begin to tell the whole story, because two different species of trichromats can have completely different color vision. Differing peak sensitivities, etc.

KitFox

Yes, but that doesn't have much to do with fovea.

tchrist

19:21

I would imagine that the nectar-feeding birds are tetrachromats, or at least, have short cones that are sensitive < 370 nm. UV photography of flowers is too alluring for them not to be.

KitFox

IIRC, zebra finches are tetrachromats.

tchrist

I thought all birds except perhaps owls and such were tets.

I think we can skip the octopus for fovea inspections.

Although the eyes of the octopus, and of other cephalopods, and the eyes of vertebrates have evolved entirely independently, each has a retina, a cornea, an iris, a lens, and a fluid-filled interior. These similarities of structure, despite different origins, provide a classic example of biological convergence. However, the cephalopod and vertebrate eyes are also very dissimilar in some respects. For example, the photoreceptor cells in the eye of the octopus point toward the incoming light whereas our own rod cells and cone cells point backward and absorb light reflecting from the back of t…

KitFox

I am not an ornithologist. I don't know. I worked for a guy who worked with zebra finches. I'm pretty sure he was the one who mentioned it.

@tchrist Why is that?

tchrist

Because they don’t have one.

Or at least, not the important bit we so value.

KitFox

They have something like it. Let me think of what it is called.

tchrist

19:26

Bird retinas, on the other hand, do not have a macula or fovea centralis. Visual acuity is equal in all areas. Octopus retinas also lack a fovea centralis, but do have what is called a linea centralis. The linea centralis forms a band of higher acuity horizontally across the retina of the octopus.
A unique feature of octopod eyes is that regardless of the position of their bodies, their eyes always maintain the same relative position to the gravitational field of the earth using an organ called a statocyst.

The have a linea centralis instead of a fovea centralis. I have no idea what that means, apart from the text you read above.

KitFox

Linea centralis? Hmm. Something seems off about that.

tchrist

From here.

I’m reminded of line-based autofocus sensors on phase-detect autofocus sensors for film and digital cameras alike.

KitFox

Anyway, I can't divert more brain power to it now. I have coding to finish.

tchrist

I wish I had time to code. Stuck in meetings for three hours. Still one to go. On speaker phone.

KitFox

@tchrist And I've just noticed the first two sentences. That's just wrong. Birds have fovea.

Mitch

19:41

8

Q: What's the origin of the common phrase "I call shenanigans"?

What's the origin of the common phrase "I call shenanigans"? Note that I'm not so much looking for the origin of shenanigans itself, which I expect could easily be found in the OED or something, but when the entire phrase took on a life of its own as an independent construction. Who coined it? ...

all current answers are crap

OED has shenanigans from 1855

google ngrams has shenanigans from the 80's, but nothing on 'I call shenanigans'

KitFox

Ah, Billaire. He asked some interesting questions, as I recall.

Cerberus

Mitch

It's a very interesting question, especially because there's no online data.

Cerberus

^ What malware uses to infect your computer.

Overige = other/rest.

Mitch

I feel like I knew 'I call shenanigans' from well before 2000 (before South Park).

But no data from ngrams? that's weird.

KitFox

19:45

@Mitch I liked him quite a bit. I wonder if he was one of the users we lost in the JA fiasco.

@Mitch Ditto.

Practical joke

A practical joke (also known as a prank, gag, jape or shenanigan) is a mischievous trick or joke played on someone, typically causing the victim to experience embarrassment, indignity, or discomfort. Practical jokes differ from confidence tricks or hoaxes in that the victim finds out, or is let in on the joke, rather than being fooled into handing over money or other valuables. Practical jokes or pranks are typically lighthearted, reversible or non-permanent, and aim to make the victim feel foolish or victimized to a certain degree; however practical jokes may also involve cruelty. T...

Mitch

II also happened to look up 'dibs' at the same time (something that is sorta used in mildly different circumstances with the same flavor...and OED didn't have it.

KitFox

This is more inline with my concept of the phrase.

@Mitch No way. Really?

Mitch

@KitFox a practical joke is a kind of shenanigans, but shenanigans can be just general screwing around.

KitFox

I don't think of "I call shenanigans" to me "That's bullshit" but rather "I declare that you are pulling my leg!"

Mitch

@KitFox Eff yeah.

tchrist

19:47

@KitFox Is "fovea centralis" == "fovea", or is "fovea centralis" == "foveola"?

Mitch

@KitFox yeah, not as confrontational, but making everybody aware that you're a liar.

Matt Эллен

OED doesn't have dibs (WTF?) but ODO does. (DWTF?? It's all OUP)

Mitch

@MattЭллен yeah, I did that too. In OED 'dibs' is there but as 'a middle eastern honey drink' or some such thing.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch yeah, so not what you're looking for

Mitch

and ODO give this bizarre formalistic description, when it means 'I call X' (therefore the connection with shenanigans)

@MattЭллен kinda not.

unless that is what you're calling dibs on.

tchrist

19:49

@MattЭллен Not true: OED has dibs.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist Oh, you know what I mean.

Mitch

Oh and (recent memory serves) there's a commercial product called 'Dibs' chocolate covered ice cream things as big as your thumb, you get a bunch in a small tub at the movie theater.

@tchrist it doesn't have the 'dibs' we're talking about.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch oh. OED had dibs but not in the entry for dibs

it's in dib n2

Mitch

@MattЭллен what? where?

Matt Эллен

dibs

Mitch

19:52

I only get 1 noun for dibs.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch yeah, try dib

tchrist

> b. A children’s word used to express a claim or option on some object (freq. int.); chiefly in phr. to get (etc.) dibs on (something), to have first claim to. Cf. bags I, dubs. U.S. colloq.

@MattЭллен You must be talking about some other dibs, right?

KitFox

> accumulative

Is this a word?

tchrist

$ oedlook accumul
accumulate
accumulated
accumulating
accumulation
accumulative
accumulatively
accumulativeness
accumulator

Matt Эллен

@tchrist if you search for "dibs" on the OED website, it goes straight to the honey drink, no mention of children's games

Mitch

19:54

OK. OED has the right dibs at least somewhere.

tchrist

@MattЭллен I have Special Access Powers.

Mitch

@KitFox are you expecting cumulative?

Matt Эллен

@tchrist you have to search for dib to get dibs

tchrist

@MattЭллен Well, unless you’ve written your own. Which I have.

KitFox

@Mitch Yes.

Matt Эллен

19:55

@tchrist I see :D

tchrist

Which is why mine works better.

Mitch

@KitFox so yes, 'acumulative' might be a malapropism, or is it an error?

@tchrist how? did you get a word list from them somehow?

KitFox

@Mitch I'm not sure. It sounds funny.

> I know it is accumulative but ...

Mitch

@KitFox it's in @tchrist's list.

KitFox

I keep staring at it.

Mitch

19:57

@KitFox stop it, you'll make it self-conscious.

tchrist

@Mitch hums

Mitch

@tchrist that's not working for me. Do you purse your lips at the same time?

KitFox

@Mitch They have an API, don't they?

tchrist

accumulative /əˈkjuːmjʊlətɪv/, a.
Etymology: f. L. accumulāt- ppl. stem of accumulāre: see accumulate + -ive.
Characterized by accumulation.
1. Arising from accumulation or successive additions of particulars; cumulative, collective.
2. Of things: So constituted as to accumulate or increase in amount; as money does by the continuous addition of the interest to the principal.
3. Of persons: Given to accumulate or amass.

Mitch

1862 R. Whately in E. J. Whately Life & Corr. R. Whately (1866) II. 392 Such persons cannot understand the force of accumulative proof.
1863 Morning Star 7 Jan. 6 The sinking fund is accumulative.
1936 J. C. Powys Maiden Castle (1937) v. 198 Exploiting in fact all his accumulative malice against her.
1948 A. C. Kinsey et al. Sexual Behavior Human Male iii. 119 The usefulness of an accumulative incidence curve cannot be over-emphasized.

MετάEd

20:01

Amoo, amass, amatt.

Mitch

all these examples sound like reanalysis of 'a cumulative'.

KitFox

It feels dirty somehow.

tchrist

$ oedlook -v '^dib\w{0,3}$'
dib [n.1]
dib [n.2]
dib [n.3]
dib [v.1]
dib [v.2]
dibber [n.]
dibbin [n.]
dibble [n.2]
dibble [n.]
dibble [v.1]
dibble [v.2]
dibs [n.]

@Mitch Not true.

> 1817 Coleridge Poems 139 ― Taylor is eminently discursive, accumulative, and (to use one of his own words) agglomerative.

agglomerates

Mitch

@tchrist no not all, but many, enough to make me think that any use of 'accumulative' is a modern 'reuse' (sounds like a mistake)

tchrist

I don’t understand what you are saying.

Oh boy, my first Nice Question badge. I need to cherrypick more Visser.

Mitch

20:10

@KitFox yeah, but it seems like you need to have access to use it. have to mangle the URL to get the proxy through the local library.

tchrist

-1

Q: The meaning of “Trolling around”

Could somebody help me? What does "trolling around" mean in the sentence "Avoiding trolling around the guts of Entity Framework"? P.S. Entity Framework it's name of the framework for programming

meaning

On topic?

Mitch

@tchrist I agree with KitFox that 'accumulative' sounds weird. Whatever the historical record, it seems like wherever it is used, it should be 'cumulative'.

tchrist

I don’t see what is in any way wrong with it.

Robusto

@KitFox It's properly not "mit'ens" at all, but "mi'ens" (glottal stop) or "middens" (no explanation necessary).

@Mitch I like cumulative clouds. Especially when they look like unicorns.

tchrist

I am saying I cannot see what is wrong with accumulative. Are you saying that it conveys nothing that cumulative does not?

Robusto

20:21

Accumulative and cumulative are not precisely interchangeable. If you tend to accumulate things, you are accumulative, not cumulative.

tchrist

That’s certainly how I’ve always seen things. @Kit appears to be in opposition to that perspective.

Robusto

@Kit is free to be wrong.

tchrist

Should the user repost the closed French question, or should we ask their mods whether they would like a migration?

French is in beta, though.

So I think migration is not possible.

Robusto

Writers.SE is still in beta, and we migrate questions there all the time.

tchrist

Oh.

MετάEd

20:29

I am now officially a Fanatic.

tchrist

@Reg said he could migrate to anything that was out of beta.

Perhaps it requires some sort of dev support.

Robusto

@MετάEd That's not the same as Fantastic, you know. It takes a lot of work to earn those two extra letters.

MετάEd

@Robusto And we all know what TS stands for.

Robusto

I wasn't going to go there, but since you brought it up — my condolences.

@tchrist Maybe the term "beta" is overloaded in the SE vocabulary.

tchrist

Wait.

I know.

It is private vs public beta.

Robusto

20:33

Ah. That would explain it.

tchrist

Mods can send to public betas, I believe, but not to private ones.

I would ask one, but they seem to be cleaning out the latrines.

Robusto

In any case, questions about French are off topic here, and should be given the bum's rush (or le clochard de pointe or however the French abuse that term).

tchrist

You have well artiCULated the need to kick its French butt.

I see that my sinister stroke has slipped in under the radar.

RegDwighт

21:00

@tchrist Anything out of private beta. And he reposted it himself, so I only had to delete.

0

Q: Is there a manner to flag questions or answers made by non native English speakers?

Almost all my questions or answers need a review of a native speaker. Is it possible that I flag my account as "non native speaker of English" and my Q&A goes to review automatically? It can be useful if Stack Overflow shows as well something like: "This user is not a native speaker of Englis...

feature-request support stackoverflow non-english-speakers

tchrist

kthx

Awww

KitFox

@Robusto I don't even know what you are talking about. I don't understand how writing vocabulary can be described as "accumulative." It just feels wrong.

tchrist

Idiot SE programmers! I just had to write a link from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject–auxiliary_inversion#In_questions" to "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject%E2%80%93auxiliary_inversion#In_questions" to get them to notice it. That is stupid stupid stupid stupid. And more stupid.

RegDwighт

Gotta run again.

KitFox

Now I must accommute.

RegDwighт

21:07

If Internet in general and SE in particular have taught me one thing, then it's that "English reviewed by a native speaker" is an utterly worthless label at best. In fact, there's a whole range of mistakes that are very typical for native speakers but are virtually unheard of among non-native ones. Such is life. — ЯegDwight 56 secs ago

tchrist

Scram!

RegDwighт

Had to add that, of course. Couldn't resist.

Au reservoir.

Hugo

@tchrist What's oedlook?

tchrist

hums

It’s like look(1), but on the OED word list, with POS tags.

And other decorations.

If you send me personal mail, I will tell you where to get a copy.

I’ve been adding the quarterly updates to it, you see.

It is just a wordlist, not a dictionary.

The quarterly updates are public, so I grab them.

They include POS tags.

There really need to add nemetic. I did a bunch of legwork on that one.

7

A: What is the adjective form of "nemesis"?

EDIT: References provided at the bottom. The short answer is nemetic. Longer answer follows. In English, nouns of Greek origin that end in -esis regularly form corresponding adjectives that end in -etic: antithesis, antithetic; diuresis, diuretic; emesis, emetic; genesis, genetic; kinesis, ...

Hugo

@tchrist Done, ta!

tchrist

21:19

K, good.

I’m a couple quarters behind. Need to fix that.

But it means that it finds stuff that the OED2 CD that some people have will not.

Mahnax

Hey @tchrist, may I have oedlook too?

tchrist

You may, because you are on a Mac.

It’s a Perl script.

Of course.

It runs on the command line.

Mahnax

Yeah, I suspected as much.

tchrist

Lemme find a link.

Mahnax

Danke.

tchrist

21:22

$ sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Bundle::Tussle'

That would work.

There are ways that do not involve sudo, too.

It is called "unilook", because I don’t want people to think it is actually the OED itself.

Mahnax

Great, thank you.

tchrist

If you just want the script and the datafile, it is less stuff to futz with.

That installs a bunch of other toys, too.

Mahnax

Oh dear. What sort of toys?

tchrist

Unicode tools.

Mahnax

Trojans? Keyloggers?

Oh, right.

tchrist

21:24

It’s all in source code, no binaries.

If you don’t trust it, you can inspect it. But it has been out for about 18 months, and nobody has freaked.

I have an update/patch for the script I haven't put out, which you will want.

Mahnax

Alright. How does one update?

tchrist

Did you type that sudo line?

Mahnax

I have now.

I'm just typing yes a bunch now.

tchrist

Oh right, this is your first time.

Normally it is magic.

Make sure to say to follow dependencies.

Or else it will ask you more questions later.

Mahnax

It's fetching CPAN mirrors.

tchrist

21:27

Right.

Mahnax

I hope this finishes before I have to pack up my computer and migrate.

tchrist

That should be done now.

It is very fast.

Once the questions are done.

Is it done?

Mahnax

Yes.

How do I make it follow dependencies?

tchrist

Good, now test by typing "unilook" as a command, with an argument.

$ unilook max

It should give you a bunch of words starting with max.

Mahnax

It doesn't appear to be working.

tchrist

21:29

Hm.

Did it say installation complete?

Mahnax

Yes.

tchrist

You might have to type "rehash" first.

If you are using csh or tcsh instead of bash or ksh.

Mahnax

I opened a new terminal window.

tchrist

Hm, where did it say it put the script?

Mahnax

Oh dear, I've closed that. I am a fool.

tchrist

21:31

Don't worry.

Easy to find out.

Mahnax

How?

tchrist

(I'm looking)

Mahnax

Ah OK.

tchrist

It's a config var. I'm looking for its name.

But the likely answer is /usr/bin/unilook or /usr/local/bin/unilook or maybe /opt/perlsomethingorother/bin/unilook.

Mahnax

I need to leave now, but I'll be back in a moment.

tchrist

21:33

It depends on your perl config.

When I find it, I will post it here.

Found it.

macbook# perl -V:installscript
installscript='/usr/local/bin';

The script should be there.

There are a few other possible places, depending on your config.

Check these directories:

macbook# perl '-V:.*script.*'
d_vendorscript='undef';
installscript='/usr/local/bin';
installsitescript='/usr/local/bin';
installvendorscript='';
scriptdir='/usr/local/bin';
scriptdirexp='/usr/local/bin';
sitescript='/usr/local/bin';
sitescriptexp='/usr/local/bin';
vendorscript='';
vendorscriptexp='';

Or rather, of whatever that says for dirs on your system.

It is probably that it has put it in /usr/local/bin, but that you do not have that in your shell's default path.

Easy to fix.

Note that if you updated perl using the mac ports command, it will be different again. For example:

macbook# /opt/local/bin/perl5.12 '-V:.*script.*'
config_arg5='-Dscriptdir=/opt/local/bin';
config_args='-D inc_version_list=5.12.2/darwin-multi-2level 5.12.2 5.12.1/darwin-multi-2level 5.12.1 5.12.0/darwin-multi-2level 5.12.0 -des -Dprefix=/opt/local -Dscriptdir=/opt/local/bin -Dcppflags=-I/opt/local/include -Dccflags=-O2 -Dldflags=-L/opt/local/lib -Dvendorprefix=/opt/local -Dusemultiplicity=y -D cc=/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -D ld=/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -D man1ext=1pm -D man3ext=3pm -D man1dir=/opt/local/share/man/man1p -D man3dir=/opt/local/share/man/man3p -D siteman1dir=/opt/local/share/man/man1 -D si…

Keeping track of all those "bin" dirs is a royal pain.

But it will be wherever the perl you get without typing a full path says the scriptdir is, I think.

So the first thing I said.

@Hugo I have a greylisting SMTP daemon in place, so first-time senders get ETEMPFAIL and resend. That causes a delay of between 15m and 2h before I get a first-time piece of mail from a particular person whom I have not myself sent mail to.

Mahnax

I honestly have no idea what I'm doing.

tchrist

On average.

You are doing nothing wrong.

What does this say:

perl -V:installscript

MετάEd

@tchrist consorts with daemons.

tchrist

As a command.

Hugo

@tchrist ok

Mahnax

21:39

installscript='/usr/bin';

tchrist

Ok, so run "ls -t /usr/bin" to list the newest stuff there. Are they are a bunch of commands beginning with the name "uni*" there now?

Mahnax

No, there are none.

tchrist

Ok, then I wish you had not closed the installation complete window. :(

It is ok, I will recover it for you.

Just a second.

Mahnax

Sorry.

tchrist

I am doing my own install to see what happens.

Here is the start of the end [sic] of my output from the install. Do you recall whether yours looked like this?

Building Unicode-Tussle
  BDFOY/Unicode-Tussle-1.03.tar.gz
  ./Build -- OK
Running Build test
t/compile.t .. ok
All tests successful.
Files=1, Tests=41,  4 wallclock secs ( 0.04 usr  0.01 sys +  2.66 cusr  0.41 csys =  3.12 CPU)
Result: PASS
  BDFOY/Unicode-Tussle-1.03.tar.gz
  ./Build test -- OK
Running Build install
Building Unicode-Tussle
Installing /usr/local/share/man/man1/byte2uni.1
Installing /usr/local/share/man/man1/oscon-whatis.pod.1
Installing /usr/local/share/man/man1/tcgrep.1
Installing /usr/local/share/man/man1/ucsort.1

Mahnax

21:44

It did not look like that at all.

tchrist

Ok, there is a copy of the log somewhere on your system. Lemme find that for you.

Mahnax

I will try again.

tchrist

I wonder if it failed for dependencies because you did not have follow set.

You can try again: it is safely idempotent.

Mahnax

Going to read '/Users/Matthew/.cpan/Metadata'
Database was generated on Mon, 05 Nov 2012 21:10:49 GMT
Warning: Cannot install Bundle::Tussle, don't know what it is.
Try the command

i /Bundle::Tussle/

to find objects with matching identifiers.

tchrist

Ahah!

That is nuts.

Well, now I shall tell you a Less Excellent way.

Go to My scripts dir.

Mahnax

21:47

404.

tchrist

Dang it what it is called now.

training.perl.com/scripts

That might work.

Carlo_R.

Yeah!

Mahnax

Yup.

tchrist

K good.

You need only two files.

unilook, and words.utf8

Wait.

It is called "Unicode::Tussle" not "Bundle::Tussle".

That is what was wrong.

But if you just grab unilook and words.utf8, then that will suffice.

If you rerun the install using

sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Unicode::Tussle'

Mahnax

Oh my. I will rerun the install, I think.

tchrist

21:50

It would also do it.

It is easier to rerun the install, yes.

Because otherwise you will never figure out where it put stuff.

Mahnax

Matthew$ sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Unicode::Tussle'
Going to read '/Users/Matthew/.cpan/Metadata'
Database was generated on Mon, 05 Nov 2012 21:10:49 GMT
Running install for module 'Unicode::Tussle'
Running make for B/BD/BDFOY/Unicode-Tussle-1.03.tar.gz
Fetching with LWP:
http://www.perl.org/CPAN/authors/id/B/BD/BDFOY/Unicode-Tussle-1.03.tar.gz

tchrist

Good.

Mahnax

Do I wait?

tchrist

Not long.

It should finish and say this....

Carlo_R.

Impressive!

tchrist

21:51

Installing /usr/local/bin/unilook
Installing /usr/local/bin/uninames
Installing /usr/local/bin/uninarrow
Installing /usr/local/bin/uniprops
Installing /usr/local/bin/uniquote
Installing /usr/local/bin/unisubs
Installing /usr/local/bin/unisupers
Installing /usr/local/bin/unititle
Installing /usr/local/bin/uniwc
Installing /usr/local/bin/uniwide
Installing /usr/local/bin/vowel-sigs
Installing /usr/local/bin/unicore/all_alias.pl
Installing /usr/local/bin/unicore/html_alias.pl
Installing /usr/local/bin/unicore/uwords_alias.pl

Notice the thing at the end.

Mahnax

I see.

tchrist

  BDFOY/Unicode-Tussle-1.03.tar.gz
  ./Build install  -- OK

Mahnax

But nothing appears to be happening, really.

tchrist

If you get that, you are good.

Do you have your prompt back?

Carlo_R.

Well!

Mahnax

21:52

@tchrist Ayuh, I think so.

I can type stuff.

tchrist

Then the last thing it said should have been install ok.

Mahnax

But none of that install stuff showed up.

2 mins ago, by Mahnax

Matthew$ sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Unicode::Tussle'
Going to read '/Users/Matthew/.cpan/Metadata'
Database was generated on Mon, 05 Nov 2012 21:10:49 GMT
Running install for module 'Unicode::Tussle'
Running make for B/BD/BDFOY/Unicode-Tussle-1.03.tar.gz
Fetching with LWP:
http://www.perl.org/CPAN/authors/id/B/BD/BDFOY/Unicode-Tussle-1.03.tar.gz

That's all I've got.

tchrist

It said "installing", right?

Wait, it hung there?

Mahnax

It's staying right there.

tchrist

That is very weird.

Mahnax

21:53

Could my school be blocking LWP?

tchrist

You cannot type stuff then.

Carlo_R.

Of course, it is normal.

Mahnax

(whatever that is)

Carlo_R.

Of course, it is normal.

tchrist

Well, it couldn’t have got the modules list without it. I think. Depends on bootstrapping.

Mahnax

21:54

puts Carlo on ignore

tchrist

^C it.

That is how you kill Unix jobs, normally, kinda.

That means "Control-C" it.

Mahnax

I know.

I'm not that bad at this!

tchrist

k

Mahnax

Hehe.

tchrist

Never said you were.

I am trying to figure out why it is wedging on the fetch.

Mahnax

21:55

I'll try again at home, I think.

tchrist

It may be that your school is blocking perl.org, but I cannot see why.

Another ELU-related module is:

$ sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Lingua::EN::Inflect'

But that will probably hang, too.

Mahnax

I'll give it a shot.

tchrist

macbook# perl -MLingua::EN::Inflect=PL -E 'say PL("radix")'
radices

Mahnax

Yep, same thing.

tchrist

You have to do the sudo thing before you can do the other.

Weird.

An semi-non-easy fix would be to get it to pick a different mirror. CPAN has 100s of copies, for just an emergency.

Mahnax

21:58

I would like to try to fix this, but I'm supposed to be writing a reflection right now.

I'm in English class, after all.

tchrist

Ok.

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