English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

The Iliad (sometimes referred to as the Song of Ilion or Song of Ilium) is an epic poem in dactylic hexameters, traditionally attributed to Homer. Set during the Trojan War, the ten-year siege of the city of Troy (Ilium) by a coalition of Greek states, it tells of the battles and events during the weeks of a quarrel between King Agamemnon and the warrior Achilles. Although the story covers only a few weeks in the final year of the war, the Iliad mentions or alludes to many of the Greek legends about the siege; the earlier events, such as the gathering of warriors for the siege, the cau...

KitFox

@Robusto No, I converted it to a comment.

Robusto

Ah, I see.

orange

6:19 PM

Can any one clear,why is it called "Its raining cats and dogs" when it rains heavily.

KitFox

We have a question on that.

5

Q: The etymology of the phrase "it's raining cats and dogs"

I was wondering about the phrase it's raining cats and dogs; I've heard two versions of the meaning of the phrase and I was wondering which one was correct or wrong altogether. The first: with 16th century European peasant homes frequently being thatched, animals seeking shelter from the elemen...

etymology

Matt Эллен

cats and dogs are actually not mammals. they are 100% water.

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus grave on the 6th word of the first line

orange

@KitFox Thanks,let me check it.

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Yes, but the thing is, you will know when a breathing mark is required, but not when a gravis.

Mitch

6:22 PM

@MattЭллен That's crazy talk. They -look- like water. And frankly that's a lot of water, even for a kitten.

Cerberus

So what do you do if you see a phrase of, say, 8 words, with no gravis?

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus i suppose that's true if "you" are the average non-greek-speaking person

@Cerberus look at the vocab

Cerberus

You can't be sure that it is New Greek.

@JSBձոգչ All this was meant for Robusto.

I was trying to show him what I consider the easiest way to identify the two.

Accents are a tiny bit more complicated and less certain.

Unless you're unlucky enough to have a line with zero initial vowels.

@JSBձոգչ Sure, it takes us but one second.

Mitch

Is ancient greek -that- much like modern? I had the impression it was like Latin vs Italian.

Cerberus

I think it is a little bit closer. But not much.

Problem is, I don't know any New Greek.

I know Ancient Greek and Latin. New Greek is much harder for me than, say, Galician.

Also because my Latin is better, and because I know French, and enough Italian/Spanish.

So it's hard to compare for me personally.

JSBձոգչ

6:29 PM

@Mitch the orthography makes it look more similar than it otherwise would be

Cerberus

Same applies to Portuguese.

Both New Greek and Portuguese sound like Slavic gibberish to me.

I can sort of gather what the main topic of a newspaper article might be in New Greek.

I can understand significant parts of the same article in Portuguese.

But television? No way.

Mitch

@Cerberus -exactly-, but without that Russian sounding accent.

Cerberus

Yup.

Mitch

you'd think portuguese would just be really slurred spansih, but it just doesn't sound that way.

Cerberus

nods

MετάEd

6:45 PM

i speak spansih.

Mitch

:)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3

Mitch

@Cerberus wait..did -you- go to all that work to put all those little arrows in there?

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Haha nice.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Cerb probably has an AHK script that automates putting little arrows on things.

Cerberus

6:51 PM

@Mitch Work, yes; all that, no: takes 10 seconds with http://szoter.com/launch/?url=%s

Mitch

nice

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 lawl

Mitch

here's a potentila elu question...

how do you pronounce 'machismo'?

Cerberus

What options are there?

/ma'tʃismo/

JSBձոգչ

/ma'kizmo/

which is how i pronounce it

but this is a bad ELU question, since it's gen ref

Mitch

7:06 PM

well, yeah, I wasn't going to ask it like that.

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Huh? Why?

Mitch

more like "where did the two come from because the dictionary says 'tch' but I've heard 'k'. Is that from some dialect or a mistake?"

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Do you also say /'mako/?

Mitch

(that's a bit non constructive anyway) but that's why I thought I'd bring it up here first to work out th kinks.

JSBձոգչ

no

Mitch

7:08 PM

@Cerberus I don't,

Cerberus

@Mitch It could be mistaken for Italian, perhaps?

Then can someone explain why this k comes from?

Mitch

OH -I know- it was all about the conversations about the presendential debates, saying how both candidates -every commentator was saying 'mah -keez- mow'

Cerberus

Very strange.

Mitch

@Cerberus wel, that -would explain it (that's the orthography rule in italian)

JSBձոգչ

yeah, i think it's influence from italian that sends me off that way

Cerberus

7:10 PM

I am not in principle against simplification towards the familiar sounds of the host langauge; but this just seems to be based on a mistake.

Dutch has the awful word intrige, pronounced /ɪn'triːʒə/.

It means and ought to be spelled + pronounced intrigue.

Apparently, German has it too.

Something went horribly wrong at some point in history.

3

Now it is too late.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus That's the story of your life, isn't it?

Cerberus

Of all our lives.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

A series of serious mistakes, going from bad to worse.

Cerberus

Think of the people and cultures destroyed on your continent.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not from bad to worse.

Matt Эллен

2 mins ago, by Cerberus

Something went horribly wrong at some point in history.

5 hours ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

or equating homosexuality and Nazism.

that is the lesson for today

Mitch

7:22 PM

"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand. "

KitFox

^That.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Ah.

Matt Эллен

indeed. optimists are more prone to depression than pessimists

Cerberus

Is that so?

Mitch

@MattЭллен that's so depressing.

You -did- see that coming, right?

Matt Эллен

7:33 PM

sorry, I was on the loo

@Cerberus something to do with pessimists not feeling so helpless.

Cerberus

It is a paradox.

Matt Эллен

> Mouse eggs can now be made up from scratch, using stem cells derived from the connective tissue of an adult rodent. The eggs, once fertilised, mostly grow into normal mouse pups.

— New Scientist

paradox

s/paradox/boots/

hint: pair of Docs

7:36 PM

oic

I just got it

Robusto

7:51 PM

// inst.dpDiv.zIndex($(input).zIndex()+1);
// monkey-patch because datepicker z-index is getting set to 1 otherwise

jquery.ui.datepicker.js

JSBձոգչ

fascinating

Robusto

I had to monkey-patch it. Seems a shame.

jQuery is usually so good.

JSBձոգչ

oh, this is your code

well that actually is interesting

Robusto

No. My comment, not my code.

inst.dpDiv.zIndex($(input).zIndex()+9999);

That's my monkey-patch. For now.

JSBձոգչ

well, the // is yours

i hope you talk to the jQueristas about their bug

Robusto

7:55 PM

The thing is, the $(input).zIndex() is always returning 0.

For now it's enough that the datepicker popup doesn't appear beneath all the other elements on the page.

MετάEd

@Robusto Before you tested it did you mount a scratch monkey?

Robusto

@MετάEd I leave it to others to mount monkeys, or be mounted by them.

A monkey patch is not like a cabbage patch, you know.

BTW, whoever was commenting about serial up-voting on near-badge Q&A scores, I've noticed some of that happening to me lately. I've received five or more badges this past week thanks to such completionist up-votes.

MετάEd

8:27 PM

ISTR @KitFox was going to look into the scratch monkey story.

She was

@MattЭллен - Hello!

hi @NeilFein :)

I sent you a couple of emails, about this, but it would be great if I could get a title and a bio.

Matt Эллен

ah! yes. I don't check my emails as often as I should. sorry

title...

Neil Fein

8:41 PM

No worries, we have time.

Matt Эллен

hmmmm

Neil Fein

How about "Soaked"?

Matt Эллен

yeah! that works really well :D

Neil Fein

The bio... anything you like, really, but it's generally a sentence or two about what kind of writing you do, or influences, etc. is best. And a link to any blogs or sites you'd like.

Matt Эллен

Where do I put that, Or should I just mail it to you?

Neil Fein

8:45 PM

Email is great, or you can just tell me here and I can copypasta.

Matt Эллен

thinkng

Neil Fein

I worked up a rough one and put it in the post, but go ahead and make any changes you like.

Matt Эллен

ok, ta!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:02 PM

Anyone else see something odd about the list of chat users today?

Mitch

like that CR is on it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah

Mitch

@Carlo_R.: Hi Carlo!

MετάEd

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Why is that odd?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MετάEd He's suspended

MετάEd

9:05 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I assume that only explains why he's mum.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I thought suspended users couldn't enter chat rooms

Mitch

read only?

it would seem a strange feature to allow in chat but not in ...oh, when suspended you can view all q's and a's just not ask/answer/comment

so it would seem reasonable to allow viewing chat but can't say anything.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

sure, but when not logged in you can read the transcript, etc.

so why not just forbid entry and only allow transcript access

MετάEd

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What difference would that make?

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 probably depends on what is easiest to implement.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:08 PM

@MετάEd Well, it seems like blocking access to not-logged-in or banned users is easier than implementing a separate read-only mode that's different from regular chat mode and also different from the transcript.

it seems odd to me.

17 secs ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15 secs ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14 secs ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

10 secs ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

like how the ability to quote your own message in itself is odd.

Mitch

now that is just an unintended consequence.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch really?

Mitch

it was intended?

I thought it was an artifact of quoting by link reference.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, no sane implementation that I would imagine for doing a chat system would allow this.

Mitch

they're doing some fun stuff here, but really, you think someone was staying up late at night trying to figure out how to allow quoting onesself?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:10 PM

It means the system would have to simultaneously store both the canonical form of the message AND its rendered form, and that quoting would ignore the canonical form and always use the rendered form no matter what was in it?

It just seems really odd to me

Mitch

it seems odd to you that self quoting is allowed?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch yes. it seems odd that quoting a message in itself is allowed.

Mitch

OK, yes, same here. but do you think they tried to do that on purpose?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yes

Mitch

21 secs ago, by Mitch

I think it's just how they implemented quoting.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:15 PM

Oh well, time for me to get going. Bye everyone!

Mitch

yeah...looking at (all) the quoted links, that looks like what they do. To quote it renders, it's not always going back to what was originally there (in fact, if you edit something that is quoted, it doesn't get propagated to the quote)

later

Cerberus

9:34 PM

5

Q: Why is the letter J so common in names of people who go by their initials?

I've met a number of people who use their initials as a name. Almost all of the ones I've met have a "J" as one of the initials. I've asked a few friends, and so far, anecdotally, it seems that this observation holds true. "J" is of course a common initial, but not common enough, I think, to e...

names

Hey, can we please reopen this?

Robusto

Sex!

JSBձոգչ

o.O

why would we want to reopen this?

Cerberus

Because it is a valid question with an answer that may be interesting to some readers?

Matt Эллен

it was asked on my birthday!

Cerberus

@Robusto goo.gl/LE4GD

@MattЭллен See?

Joseph Weissman

9:50 PM

hellooooooooooo

sorry :)

feeling a bit silly today, i think

jet lagged 3 hours (spent several weeks on the other coast)

i'm all

tumblr.com/tagged/what-year-is-it?before=1348450693

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman Yay!

Such an honour!

Joseph Weissman

Hurrah indeed! :D

Cerberus

What have you been doing in those transcentral lands?

Joseph Weissman

I guess they're ex-central in a way, but obviously the coasts are population magnets. SF and NYC being the most population-dense cities/regions in the US.

Work stuff -- new job training. It seemed to go really well.

Cerberus

Good.

Joseph Weissman

10:04 PM

I know! I'm really excited...

Cerberus

What's your new job about?

Joseph Weissman

That's the midsection of the US, right? :)

Cerberus

Can you name two cities on that map?

Joseph Weissman

Software engineering.

Cerberus

They must be in corners.

Ah OK. I'm so surprised you found a job in software engineering rather than philosophy.

Joseph Weissman

10:08 PM

Yeah, I'd like to find something that will let me do both to some degree. At this point my plan is getting a masters or doctorate in Computer Science (fully master a science) before going back for further humanities' training...

So I'm working to save up money, and have time to think through and start working on projects I might want to do for my thesis.

In passing, I don't really see an incredibly sharp division between philosophy and coding; programming, I would suggest, should be considered a humanities, or a human science anyway...

Knuth says something like "computer science is as much about computers as astronomy is about telescopes"...

Anyway. Yeah, not really exercising the training in western philosophy very obviously at the moment. I try to maintain a pretty good reading/writing rhythm anyway, and try to communicate with other writers and artists I know regularly.

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman Hmm programming, really?

I can see some blurred lines between programming - logic - philosophy...

Joseph Weissman

There would be a few different ways of saying this, I guess -- one might be that it's at least as much about the way people think and live than about mathematics and the structure of computers.

Cerberus

Hmm.

But biology is also about how people live.

Joseph Weissman

Sure -- I think my point here would be that the content and expression of code is at least partially to communicate with other humans, as well as the machine.

Cerberus

That also depends on what you're programming for?

The end is always to serve humans, but...

Joseph Weissman

10:15 PM

Definitely. I want to come back to that in a minute :) The idea is just that it's about the way we think and solve problems.

What is it to write code? What makes it fundamentally different than speaking or writing?

Some code can be art or literature -- not always, definitely rarely, but it's a potential horizon of the discourse around and constituting code.

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman I would say that you are instructing a computer, not a human being.

Joseph Weissman

This is a little out there -- but one thought here is that it may not yet be as sophisticated as natural language or writing; but it could eventually come to comprehend it, the way writing came to envelop and comprehend speech. It has at least this potential within it.

Sure -- but I guess the question that I think Knuth is underscoring is whether computer science is ultimately about computers and instructing them.

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman In theory...but then our code would be as complex as that operating the human brain.

Joseph Weissman

Or it could interact with pseudo-organic structures mimicking the sophistication and complexity of biological neural networks.

We're going to have to use neural networks at some point -- it would seem to me there's just some problems that can't be robustly solved in any other way.

I wanted to get back to the point about on behalf of whom or what we program.

Cerberus

I suppose you could say coding is partly about instructing computers, partly about taking into account what humans want from the computer and why. But—is that the/an essential characteristic of the humanities? Is coding not much like engineering?

Joseph Weissman

10:19 PM

Right -- this is a key or critical point.

We can raise this question generally, with respect to science itself even.

Cerberus

Which question exactly? My last, about engineering?

Joseph Weissman

Scientists become pure lenses, neutral observers. But on behalf of what spiritual or nature force do they do this? What spirit or destiny do they serve?

The engineer is more than a lens; she becomes a cosmic "handiman", ready to plunge into the universe as a process of production, to release or stop flows of energy of all kinds, to transmute one into the other, to cause different assemblages to enter into new relationships.

Cerberus

Yes.

Joseph Weissman

Who does the engineer become a handiman for? What desire are we serving by becoming precise observers or careful creators?

Cerberus

Applied science.

Joseph Weissman

10:21 PM

This is a totally general question -- it applies to artists and philosophers too.

Who does your work give voice to?

For artists, when they create compositions, new affects -- what is the aim?

Similarly, for philosophers when they create new concepts; or scientists when they create functions.

In short: do they serve reactionary aims like that of the church, the state, or capital?

Or do they serve the aims of culture? Are they "free"?

Cerberus

Now you are talking about creation as opposed to analysis?

Because I think the creative part is not essentially scientific, or wissenschaftlich.

Joseph Weissman

Hmmm.

I would at least have some questions about this :)

Does a scientist not create new functions, mappings?

Cerberus

You can have wissenschaftliche analysis without creation. You cannot have wissenschaftliche creation without analysis.

I mean creation outside the analysis itself.

Joseph Weissman

I guess I'm missing something -- do you not have to create new analyses?

To try to dramatize it a bit, I guess: when you carefully create the experimental condition to actually perform the analysis, are you not creating new situations in which anything can emerge, and try to capture these in new functions or mappings?

Cerberus

I suppose; but you are not creating things that serve any purpose outside the analysis itself.

The creation is entirely a means to the end of analysis.

Joseph Weissman

10:28 PM

Purpose is the question I wanted to bring us back around to, with respect to coding/computer science :)

Cerberus

By the way, I think we have two problematic oppositions here: science v. humanities (Ango-Saxon) and Wissenschaft v. non-Wissenschaft (Continental).

Joseph Weissman

Basically, the Nietzschean question for computer science: on whose behalf do you write programs? Inversely: what worlds do your machines make possible?

Interesting -- I think the 'wissenschaft' might be throwing me off :)

Cerberus

Do we need to know this in order to understand science/Wissenschaft?

Joseph Weissman

I think so, precisely.

Just so: without knowing the purpose to which science is put, on behalf of whom they devote their existence to becoming pure lenses.

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman The problem is that, to me, as a Continental, the grouping of creative arts and analytic humanities is unnatural. It doesn't make sense to my intuition.

Joseph Weissman

10:30 PM

What sees through these lenses?

Really? I would think that continental readings in particular help dissolve some of these traditional boundaries between discourses and disciplines...

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman What if we just posit sociological reasons x, y, and z? Like entertainment, a steady income, status, the desire to help mankind in the long run, etc. etc...

Joseph Weissman

That certainly takes us a long way, but...

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman Comparing the two systems could give some interesting results, but it also makes it harder to know what we're talking about exactly.

Joseph Weissman

We have to ask the question about what voice or spirit is "speaking" or "seeing" through science, on behalf of whom all the effort is "ultimately" made

Cerberus

What does that mean?

Can't it just "happen", like colliding atoms?

Joseph Weissman

10:34 PM

In other words not just what's happening psychically, with some particular scientists; but what the "meaning" of science is.

Cerberus

I feel a bit trapped in my scientific perspective now.

Joseph Weissman

Well, the question is Nietzschean, right? It's about our destiny. Whether science lifts our spirit and advances us towards brighter atmospheres of thought -- or whether it can sometimes serve aims other than advancing culture (the aims of capital, the church, the state, etc.)

The sense in which science is part of the spectacle.

Cerberus

That could be interesting of itself, but I'm not sure I understand why we need to know that first. Not saying you're wrong.

Joseph Weissman

Zizek notes the dangerous way in which science (or rather a blind faith in it, "scientism") acts a kind of replacement for religion today -- an excuse not to think for yourself.

Cerberus

In what way?

"Cloning is possible, therefore we need not consider moral implications"?

Joseph Weissman

10:37 PM

Just so -- it acts as a "subject-supposed-to-know" so that we don't need to bother with actually knowing or understanding for ourselves.

Cerberus

Oh, in that way.

Joseph Weissman

It "knows for us" :)

Cerberus

That is certainly true, but does it only apply to science?

Joseph Weissman

Certainly not. Reactive forces have prevailed. The question is: why?

Why do we keep falling for fictions? How can humanity finally lose it's shameful stupidity?

Cerberus

Hmm which forces, and how have they prevailed?

What fictions are you thinking of that we wrongly believe in due to some misinterpetation or other abuse of science?

Joseph Weissman

10:39 PM

Science can function as an illuminating enterprise here, for sure -- critiquing all the mystifications that have deviled us for so long.

Cerberus

But...

Joseph Weissman

But I think only philosophy really answers up to the enormity of this task.

Can I give a long quote from Deleuze here?

Cerberus

Haha sure.

Joseph Weissman

> "When someone asks “what’s the use of philosophy?” the reply must be aggressive, since the question tries to be ironic and caustic. Philosophy does not serve the State or the Church, who have other concerns. It serves no established power.

Cerberus

That's not long!

Joseph Weissman

10:41 PM

> The use of philosophy is to sadden. A philosophy that saddens no one, that annoys no one, is not a philosophy. It is useful for harming stupidity, for turning stupidity into something shameful. Its only use is the exposure of all forms of baseness of thought.

Cerberus

Ah.

Joseph Weissman

> Is there any discipline apart from philosophy that sets out to criticise all mystifications, whatever their source and aim, to expose all the fictions without which reactive forces would not prevail? Exposing as a mystification the mixture of baseness and stupidity that creates the astonishing complicity of both victims and perpetrators.

> Finally, turning thought into something aggressive, active and affirmative. Creating free men, that is to say men who do not confuse the aims of culture with the benefit of the State, morality or religion. Fighting the ressentiment and bad conscience, which have replaced thought for us. Conquering the negative and its false glamour. Who has an interest in all this but philosophy? Philosophy is at its most positive as critique, as an enterprise of demystification."

Wooo!

(That's from Nietzsche and Philosophy.)

Cerberus

I have read this before.

Joseph Weissman

Nice!

Cerberus

It is indeed a perspective on philosophy that I find valid.

And it certainly applies to various other academic pursuits as well, to varying degrees.

Joseph Weissman

10:44 PM

Right -- culture is "first" for Nietzsche because it's superstructure -- everything within it, all the philosophy and art and science inside, they partake of it's cognitive structure.

The proper question in any case is which voice is speaking -- who or what is being expressed, what spirit is being dramatized in this way of living or thinking.

Cerberus

By voice you mean purpose/intention?

Joseph Weissman

Sure -- spiritual or natural force would be another way of putting it. The question boils down to whether the force is active or reactive/reactionary.

Cerberus

I would be inclined to reduce that purpose/intention to the person practising philosophy etc.

What drives him?

Joseph Weissman

To bring this back to machines, though -- the question is about the way they're being used, the way in which their construction permits them to be used.

Cerberus

Alternative, I could say what I want the purpose of those who practise philosophy to be.

Joseph Weissman

10:47 PM

Say it!

Cerberus

But I don't see this purpose of existing in any other or ulterior ways.

@JosephWeissman Well, improving people's lives through enlightenment is one; approaching the truth is another; improving people's lives indirectly through other means is a third.

Joseph Weissman

Ah, a good Enlightenment point-of-view.

I'm mostly this, too. It's the best and the worst.

This is particularly beautiful to me in Marx especially.

Cerberus

But I am not comfortable with framing it in a way outside or beyond those two perspectives, namely my own desire or that of those who practise it.

Joseph Weissman

The best and worst of Marxism is precisely here -- in this belief that the development of the general intellect is sufficient.

Cerberus

I didn't say I thought it sufficient, hehe.

Joseph Weissman

10:50 PM

Knowledge is enough to save us. Marx even puts this in theological terms -- that it's enough to confess our sins (as a species)...

Cerberus

And you agree?

Joseph Weissman

Well, it's interesting to compare Marx to Lenin here.

Cerberus

And what does it mean to be saved?

Is there a threshold to be reached where we can say it is good enough?

Joseph Weissman

The leftism Marx approaches theologically, as a problem of confession, Lenin understands clinically, as a problem of disease; though he says the disease of leftism is harmless enough, and one is even better for it after having recovered :)

One point here would be the paradoxes that characterize knowledge today, properly psychoanalytic paradoxes.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Joseph Weissman

10:52 PM

Global warming is a great example.

We know very well that our way of thinking and living is certainly destroying the possibility of that way of thinking and living continuing; and yet we act as if we did not know.

Cerberus

Do we know this?

Joseph Weissman

The question is how this paradox of belief works today, what do we really believe in? We know very well, but act like we don't believe.

Cerberus

I don't think most of us truly believe that.

I see global warming as a problem, but not the apocalypse.

Joseph Weissman

That we are destroying the planet, and running out of time to intervene?

Cerberus

Destroying?

Joseph Weissman

10:54 PM

Well, it's one of many apocalyptic horizons we are fast approaching.

Cerberus

I don't see it as destroying.

Joseph Weissman

Intellectual property is another; genetic manipulation might be a third.

It all comes down to a "commons" that is under fresh attack.

And we find it next to impossible to begin thinking about different ways in which society could be organized.

This is the tragic melancholy of neoliberalism today; we are condemned to live without the Idea.

Cerberus

I think we have very different views on the current situation and the future.

Joseph Weissman

It's possible that's the case. I might be overstating it, certainly; on the other hand I may be using a liberal amount of poetic imagination here.

Cerberus

Haha.

Joseph Weissman

10:56 PM

Trying to dramatize the problem, right? To make it something thinkable. It's very hard to even get to this question of how to reorganize society.

Cerberus

But I'm not sure I am as unhappy with the current situation as you are.

Joseph Weissman

Adorno says something about how those who want to demand "what's to be done?" of a critical thought before it's even half-formed remind him of nothing so much as a government official demanding papers.

Cerberus

Haha true.

Joseph Weissman

How do you mean? The global situation, or cultural one, etc.

I'm not sure we have to separate them so -- I guess I'm just curious what you mean.

I try not to be melancholy. I'm definitely not a "sad" militant. I'm a happy person, for the most part. I don't think we should be moved only by tragedy.

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