English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Miauw!

murmur

Nurse, he’s out of his bed again!

user19161

Ah, it's Sunday. Otherwise the crush question would have more views!

Give it time, give it time. It’s supercollided.

user19161

Yes, then it will be rep whoring time!

12:37 AM

I agree that its little pitterpatter of the heartstrings (how’s that for a mangled metaphor?) is likely to be a strange attractor to all the drive-by shooters, but it is less awwwww! than the weeſil question’s cute picture of the furry friend.

Zairja’s picture makes me get all happy. It’s supersilly, I know.

Speaking as a supercilious expert, I know supersilly when I see it.

cornbread ninja

1:11 AM

@naught101 Yes, well. I had had an OED citation about that here, but someone else took it upon herself to delete that. I’m afraid you’ll have to make do with crowd-sourced stuff instead. Sorry ’bout that. — tchrist 1 hour ago

?

1:23 AM

@cornbreadninja Indeed.

Here is the entire citation, which is more than I had had there:

Extensively used in scientific terms, taken from Greek prototypes, or formed on Gr. (rarely L.) words. These are primarily adjs. with the sense ‘having the form or nature of, resembling, allied to’; but also (as sometimes in Gr.) sbs., in the sense of ‘something having the form or appearance of, something related or allied in structure, but not identical’. The sbs. are esp. numerous in Mathematics, where, in imitation of rhomboid (Gr. ῥομβοειδής approaching a lozenge (ῥόμβος) in shape, a rhomboid) and trapezoid (Gr. τραπεζοειδής having somewhat of the form of a table (τράπεζα)), the suffix …

It’s now been reduced to an unsubstantiated claim. I don’t understand why she did that.

So much for claims being expected to be backed up by references. Clearly, that is not true.

What is this about?

I dunno. A moderator edited out the reference in my comment, leaving only a claim. I wish whoever did it had bothered to tell me what I had done “wrong”.

@KitFox It turns out that both senses variously apply, in that sometimes ‑oid means having the form of, and sometimes it means like but not identical. — tchrist 4 hours ago

It used to have the supporting OED def: These are primarily adjs. with the sense ‘having the form or nature of, resembling, allied to’; but also (as sometimes in Gr.) sbs., in the sense of ‘something having the form or appearance of, something related or allied in structure, but not identical’.

But a moderator removed that portion. I still do not know why.

I think I will no longer make comments. It seems like a bad idea.

Repost it.

She’ll suspend me for insubordination.

We must assume the edit was a mistake.

1:30 AM

Seems like it, doesn’t it?

If not, let him or her explain it.

Who will? It could have been Waiwai.

It could have been. Or Reg. Or nohat.

But I believe it was a she. Call it a hunch.

I "know" it was not Reg, because he would have talked to me about it.

I wouldn't accuse people based on a hunch.

The "her" is bad.

Even if it seems likely, it is still bad manners.

Just repost your reference.

Well, the person I was talking to was a she. It makes sense that that is the most likely person to have edited it.

Could have been another person passing by.

People are innocent until proven guilty.

Do you have any idea what was behind the edit?

1:32 AM

Yes, fine.

No, I honestly do not.

Then repost it.

I don't understand it either.

I’m on probation.

What?

It would provide them with an excuse to suspend me.

Why are you on probation, and whose?

1:34 AM

My comments are not always fitting. I should not post any.

And I certainly will not pretend to overrule a moderator’s edit job.

You should always be polite, certainly. But that has nothing to do with this edit.

I just find it quite mysteriously done, and even somewhat rude.

cornbread ninja

I don't agree with the edit going unexplained.

2

I don't see any reason for the edit.

Sorry I ran off; the dryer buzzed.

We are committed to developing local talent.

That’s ok.

1:43 AM

Here, after " to " it should be develop or developing?

Developing.

Why?

Somehow, I feel that the -ing form is normally used with committed to in this sense.

ok

Interesting.

1:45 AM

This is just idiomatic, you need to know this per verb.

Hello.

"We are too committed to develop local talent" is kind of the opposite of "We too are committed to developing local talent".

The opposite?

Oh.

You changed the position of too.

The former means we won't do it because we're too busy.

@Pratik - "committed to" needs to go with a noun or noun phrase. "Develop" is wrong, because it's a verb. "Developing" is a special sort of noun, made from a verb, called a "gerund".

In we are too committed to, to mainly modifies too, while in we too are committed to, there is no connection between too and to.

@DavidWallace : Ok

1:49 AM

@Cerberus In the former sentence, "to" is part of the infinitive verb "to develop".

@Pratik Does it make sense to you?

@DavidWallace :yes

@DavidWallace And not in the latter?

I wouldn't say it is that's imple.

In the latter, "to" is a preposition.

Yes.

I misread you.

I thought your remarks seemed uncharacteristic.

I thought Cerberus must have been eaten by a three-headed dog.

1:53 AM

I was chasing my tail, but I didn't catch it.

Even though I kept running and running.

You should split up. You'll catch it that way.

Unpossible.

stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7817528/…

This is not far from where I live.

I thought the whole point of having insurance was so that you didn't need to chase criminals with hockey sticks.

Yeah.

Then again, it worked.

True.

2:36 AM

@DavidWallace I thought most things were pretty far from where you live.

@Robusto Sure, I have 1000km of vacuum on all sides of me.

So ... outer space? I thought you were in New Zealand.

Oh that's right. But, it's all just sheep as far as the eye can see, in every direction.

At least you should be able to get to sleep most nights. Those sheep aren't going to count themselves.

2

I need some kind of news feed that alerts me every time Oicshi posts a question. I end up coming in too late most of the time. >_<

2:43 AM

Oh, they try. Believe me.

Or maybe I just need to read the NY Times religiously and preempt all his questions.

@Zairja You could give him/her your email address, and ask him/her to notify you each time.

Did you have a good answer to the May/December question?

@DavidWallace Tempting. Which question is that?

@Zairja Doesn't seem to stop you from posting an identical answer to one already there, apparently.

Or two, actually.

@Robusto Yeah, I didn't see it until I posted. If it gets a pity upvote then I'll leave it; otherwise I'll delete it out of courtesy. I don't mean to disrespect anyone who beat me to the punch.

2:45 AM

@Zairja Oh, I see you did. I just gave you an upvote.

Oh, sorry I didn't read your comment above at all. It wasn't a sympathy upvote, I swear.

In fact, I upvoted the other two answers as well, rendering the whole lot completely pointless.

Oishi-san is going to be the first person on any SE site ever to reach 20K without ever having answered a question, I do declare.

Somebody has to be.

@Robusto I'm betting he'll get there by Summer 2014.

Shall we run a sweepstake?

Some kind of office pool seems in order.

2:50 AM

(not sure whether you mean the summer at the start of 2014, the one in the middle, or the one at the end).

3 May, 2014, 14:11:48 UTC

@Robusto He/she has answered seven questions.

@Zairja Is that your best guess at when he/she will get there?

@DavidWallace Yes. Final answer.

@Zairja Don't you want to hear what the prize is first? It might be something you don't want.

@DavidWallace I'll take anything short of a venereal disease. No questions asked!

Wait... that doesn't sound right. :|

2:55 AM

It's OK. I wasn't going to offer you a venereal disease.

The question is - will the rate that his reputation increases grow with time, because he learns more and asks better questions; or will it lessen with time, because he learns more and asks fewer questions.

@DavidWallace Well, you also have to take into account his growing senility and vacation time spent away from ELU access, among other things.

Oh my goodness!

All things being equal, I would assume a steady, linear (on average) increase in reputation.

I take it he never comes to this chat room then.

Let's hope not.

His SE profile says he's 79. Worst-case scenario is. . . he doesn't make it to 20k. :(

Then again I'm hale and hearty despite my senility and decrepit nature.

3:01 AM

But you're not really 92, right?

No, not really.

But as the saying goes, "Over the hill? I am the hill!" At least I think that's a saying.

It is now. You just said it.

and according to Mr Google, it has been said before.

Excellent! My sanity is preserved. Now to rest. Have a good night, all. Take some uncontested rep in my absence! :)

Good night, @Zairja

It occurred to me that there are two different types of chat room in SE.

There are ones like this one, where there are rapid-fire conversations for a while, and also long periods of silence.

And there are ones like The Whiteboard, where conversations last for days. Somebody makes a comment every few hours. So it's not really a conversation; kind of an extended saga.

But it's rare for more than one person to be in The Whiteboard at a time.

Are programmers that much busier than language geeks?

3:19 AM

technically, programmers are language geeks

and I find that sysadmins and powerusers are a chatty bunch

Hmm, potato potato, but that's not what I meant by language.

;p

Mahnax

@tchrist I meant to say "It's too yucky out for running", but I goofed and decided to leave it.

@DavidWallace: I was kidding. the rest of it is true tho, maybe they're too busy, or just less social.

3:42 AM

Shhhhhhhhh.

3:53 AM

@JourneymanGeek No, I think it's a different sort of social.

Hi

Hello, @DavidWallace

and @MετάEd

and myself

Helloah.

@Noah Hi

What's the use of derivatives in real life?

Physics, chemistry, economics.

Loads of uses.

4:08 AM

@Noah A math department is real life.

And confusing undergraduates.

ha ha

But is it like chess or do we really use it? Like building a freaking toaster, etc.?

We really use it.

Okay, this calculus is way over my head...

@Noah Calculus I can explain in like ten minutes, but I need to draw pictures.

The rest of the semester is learning how to do it faster.

4:26 AM

@Noah: if you're an engineer you'd probably use it

@MετάEd Integration as well as differentiation in 10 minutes? I would pay to see that.

@DavidWallace I could use the money. :-)

OK, your time starts now. If I can solve ODEs by 4:40am UTC, your cheque is in the mail.

4:43 AM

@MετάEd Right, well, umm, since I can solve ODEs (not sure how much help you were), I'll send you a cheque. I'll need your address. :-)

5:07 AM

@DavidWallace ha!

5:46 AM

$\pi r^2$

5:56 AM

@MετάEd I find your reasoning to be circular.

@DavidWallace You're right. Pie r round. Brownies r square. Except when they r Girl Scouts.

6:46 AM

hi

i have an english string that the words are without space in between, and with some characters could be with two words.

for example i have the follwing line:
REINDEXEDESCAPEACHECKEYBEFOREIGNOREGEXPLAINSTEADDATABASELECTABLEF

and?

i would like to know how do you call this kind of strings in english, and if there is any rule that set which letter is associated with which word?

ahh, no idea

I think there are dynamic algorithms for that.

@HananN. Might it be called homework?

7:05 AM

@MετάEd nope it is work not in home

user19161

@HananN. Hahaha.

user19161

Homework need not be done at home.

user19161

It can be done in a cafe for example.

To get the answer, read a solid book on algorithms. This is pretty canon.

user19161

Is canon the standard short form of canonical?

7:07 AM

generally , I'd think so

user19161

Hmm, this is new to me.

It's late. Canonical is probably better. I just adjectived a noun.

Or "part of the canon".

i have posted a qustion about it here: english.stackexchange.com/questions/86882/…

It's off topic here.

user19161

@HananN. I have a feeling it will be closed soon.

user19161

7:10 AM

My feeling is usually wrong though.

crypto is better place ?

I think you'd have better luck on SO, but you might want to give it some effort first.

It's algorithmic, I promise.

can't an english speaker understand it ?

It's too localized to ask someone to read it for you.

user19161

It also damages the eyes.

7:13 AM

decipher it for me, is more correct

user19161

A kind soul might do it for you, but not me.

If you do some research first, SO night help with the algorithm.

There's no real way to just tell you word break rules, because there are different possible parses. For example, is "ed" always an ending? No. You need to keep reprocessing.

Hello

user19161

@Meysam What's up?

OK, thx, and that is the question , and what you have just wrote could be the answer.

@simchona i would like you to delete my post, Thanks.

7:16 AM

But that's not an English question really.

SO is better with algorithms.

i will find it a better place, i promise.

What verb can I use for a situation where I have to think about something more carefully and more thoroughly before doing something?

Ok. If you need help getting started, pop into their chat. I've done this algo, but I dont remember how.

Thanks.

user19161

@Meysam reconsider

user19161

7:18 AM

Hmm, I am trying to think of a few more.

thank you

Question #2: Which one is correct? Get somewhere vs. Get to somewhere

user19161

@Meysam Use "I have to get home soon" but "I have to get to school soon".

user19161

Home is a little special.

user19161

I want to go home.

user19161

I want to go to school.

7:21 AM

I know Home is an exception since it can mean "to home"

home = to home

user19161

Some people take home to be an adverb there, modifying the verb go.

Question #3: Which one is correct? Get to the end vs. Get the end

user19161

@Meysam Get to the end means reach the end.

user19161

Get the end means obtain the end of a rope?

Q: "Playing upstairs" vs. "Playing home"

I have already asked two questions about home:

6

As you know "upstairs" and "home" are both adverb of place. So while it would be correct to say: The kids are playing upstairs. (Here the adverb upstairs provides information about the place of the activity) Is the following sentence correct too? The kids are playing home. I expect ...

adverbs

user19161

7:23 AM

I have to get to Meysam means I want to reach him to talk to him.

Q: "On the way home" — "to" preposition

0

Possible Duplicate: Why is 'to' not used before 'home'? I have noticed that the "to" preposition is never used when one is heading home. some examples: I am on the way home Would you please give me a ride home? But for other locations, "to" preposition is used:...

prepositions

user19161

I have to get Meysam means I need Meysam to come and do something for me now.

and "It's getting to me" means it's annoying me.

8:13 AM

"It's getting late" as in "the late Arthur Dent".

user19161

8:24 AM

@MετάEd What?

9:54 AM

I am surprised nobody thought of Buridan's ass.

@RegDwighт This explains why you always look surprised

No seriously, do people in the English-speaking world not know that donkey?

I only just read about it

It's a rather common idiom in Russia, on par with the Gordian Knot.

I guess we English speakers are placed equidistant from all sources of information on the topic

10:05 AM

I must ask @Cerberus.

Was there a reason you had that ass on your mind?

A: Is there a word to describe indecisiveness between two things?

Ah.

So you don't even know why I like me some ass early in the morning.

Hold on.

0

Buridan's ass refers precisely to being unable to choose between exactly two things. The ass in question is a donkey that is equally firsty and hungry, finds itself midway between a stack of hay and a pail of water, and, unable to make its mind up, dies of hunger and thirst. The paradox is ...

Oh! right. That makes sense.

user19161

Hi @matt!

hi @Jasper :)

user19161

10:07 AM

Hmm, I have 22.8k now, 200 more to 23k. I think I will retire at 23k.

Yeah yeah.

You'll also stop downvoting, upvoting, commenting.

We've been there.

user19161

Hehe, I am busted.

23 is not even a round number. Who are you, an Illuminatus?

Maybe he's Dan Brown!

23 enigma

The 23 enigma refers to the belief that most incidents and events are directly connected to the number 23. Origins Robert Anton Wilson cites William S. Burroughs as being the first person to believe in the 23 enigma. Wilson, in an article in Fortean Times, related the following story: Burroughs wrote a short story in 1967 called "23 Skidoo." The term "23 skidoo" was popularized in the early 1920s and means "it's time to leave while the getting is good." It appeared in newspapers as early as 1906. Discordianism The Principia Discordia states that "All things happen in fives, or are div...

user19161

10:09 AM

That sounds like the movie!

23 (film)

23 is a 1998 German drama thriller film about a young hacker Karl Koch, who died on 23 May 1989, a presumed suicide. It was directed by Hans-Christian Schmid, who also participated in screenwriting. The title derives from the protagonist's obsession with the number 23, a phenomenon often described as apophenia. Although the film was well received by critics and audiences, its accuracy has been vocally disputed by some witnesses to the real-life events on which it was based. Schmid subsequently co-authored a book that tells the story of the making of 23 and also details the differences bet...

Indeed it does.

user19161

Anyway, what's up with John Lawler's answer of non-heterological for heterological?

Q: Word whose form is contrary to its meaning?

Where would that be?

Also, he has exactly 500 answers now.

user19161

5

Is there a word for a word whose form is contrary to its meaning? For example, "quotidian" is anything but quotidian.

single-word-requests

user19161

@RegDwighт Time for him to retire. Maybe 500 is special to him.

Q: Is there a term for a word that defeats its own purpose?

10:11 AM

Bah. That question is a dupe.

5

There are a few words that can possess an oxymoronic or paradoxical meaning that tend to defeat the entire purpose of the word. The most obvious example: This sentence is indescribable. Specifically, words such as "indescribable." The paradox is that the description of something as "indescr...

single-word-requests

6

Q: What is a catchy word that means (non-)self-descriptive

I'm having fun with paradoxes, and I'm trying to come up with a catchy word for non-self-descriptive. Maybe "autosemantic" fits the bill for self-descriptive (definitely open to other suggestions!), but I'm having a hard time negating it in a natural way. For an example of the sentence I'm tryi...

single-word-requests

user19161

Now it is weird that JL did not delete his answer.

user19161

It is also weird that DW has to refer to JL answer when giving his answer.

user19161

So all this makes the site messy, and messy is not in my dictionary.

user19161

I better get a better dictionary only available in good bookstores.

10:14 AM

That looks messy.

Messi is not in any dictionary

It's spole with y. What are you, illiterate?

sob yes

user19161

Geezis, I just figured out what the pic means after 9000 milliseconds.

@JasperLoy that is OVER 9000 nanoseconds!

user19161

10:16 AM

In other news, I have decided to NOT stop downvoting. I figured there was no point in trying to maintain a nice number because even that number may change.

Yeah as soon as I delete just one thing you downvoted, you can kiss your nice number good-bye.

user19161

But it seems that some numbers don't change immediately. You need to wait for an indefinite period of time. So sometimes one is not sure of the actual effect of an action.

Take this up with God.

user19161

I use God these days to mean various things, like justice. So mostly in metaphorical senses.

I use God for money

he makes a good sugar daddy

user19161

10:20 AM

Money is only useful for Monopoly.

it's also useful for buying food

user19161

In Soviet Russia, food buys you!

In money we trust.

user19161

In myself I trust.

user19161

To all Ubuntu fans, 12.10 will be out in 3 days. This time there is a new Ubuntu GNOME distro which defaults to GNOME and not Unity.

10:51 AM

hello

does "of note" mean "noticeable"?

implicitly, but it really mean "worth noticing"

Of note is that tempdata is 0xffffffff in the stack trace. That is very...unusual, at least for the code pasted above. — Chris Jester-Young Sep 17 '11 at 16:47

So it's worth noticing 0xffffffff because it's unusual

@RegDwighт

does "of course" mean "worth coursing"?

10:54 AM

no

normally "of course" means "obviously"

user19161

It is as obvious as the usual course or path of things, the way I see it.

There once was a duckling named Jim
Who was trying to learn how to swim
He kicked in the water
Just like he oughta
But didn't have quite enough --vim-- emacs.

user19161

@MattЭллен Just use vi!

bah!

@JasperLoy I tend to use vim rather than vi

vim is more powerful than vi in many terms

user19161

11:09 AM

Hello @kit. You are early.

@tchrist The extended, two comments long reference was unnecessary. The question and answer had nothing to do with the use of -oid, and discourse on it is not constructive. Anyhow, I removed the entire thread since it is irrelevant.

You have said before that you don't have time for concision, so I edited it for you.

And left only the pertinent bits.

user19161

It takes more time to write less, amazing. That's what concision is about.

Hello @Jasper.

I am usually lurking about this time of day, but I don't come in unless I am needed.

I was trying to write something short
But I got a bit lost in my thought
I meandered around
and went upside down
Quite exceeding the length that I sought

Time to commute! Laterz!

11:14 AM

CU

@MattЭллен is a rhyme monster ;)

Thanks! :)

user19161

I was trying to write something long
But it ended up all wrong
I corrected it from left to right
Then everything became bright
Now I sing a happy song

If I'm allowed to do in German, I'd join. :D

@JasperLoy good!

@Em1 please do :)

user19161

11:17 AM

@Em1 I think your Eng is good enough too.

@JasperLoy Yeah, but it would take much longer.

For rhyming I guess my vocabulary is too small.

Quickie: starting a sentence with a quotation mark, should I capitalize the quoted word? e.g.>> "asffdsa" means "tomato pants" in German.

should it be "Asffdsa" means "tomato pants" in German. ?

Yes, unless there is a reason the word can't start with a capital

user19161

@HenningKlevjer Yes, capitalise it.

In all cases?

user19161

11:20 AM

"Banana" is an interesting word.

user19161

@HenningKlevjer Unless it is a brand name such as iPhone.

I guess the only exception would be a product name with a lower case beginning?

exactly

"Don't hit me in the face," she said.

Thanks guys!

No probs!

user19161

11:20 AM

"iPhone" is a brand name.

Great :)

Ich wollte einst auf Englisch reimen
und obwohl viele Ideen in mir keimen
lies mein Vokabular mich im Stich
Ich versuchte alles mögliche, vergeblich
Tendier ich doch in Deutsch zu schreiben

user19161

@Em1 I don't understand it but it sounds lovely nonetheless!

Translation:
I once wanted to rhyme in English
and though a lot of ideas came to my mind
my vocabulary ran out
I tried everything in vain
I tend to write in German

@JasperLoy I translated for you ;)

Without keeping rhyme, of course

user19161

I saw the men and women
Sitting there eating ramen
They ate and drank
And took the fish from the tank
Oh, that is so rotten!

11:26 AM

@JasperLoy you've got the rhyming, now you need to learn the meter

user19161

@MattЭллен Are there rules for that?

unless you aren't writing limericks

@JasperLoy oh yes.

user19161

@MattЭллен Haha, these should be called Jimericks then. I just invented them.

Stack Exchange English Language & Usage Blog: The Basics of Limerick Composition

Matt Ellen on November 16, 2011

It is difficult to judge someone’s language proficiency. There are plenty of standardised tests, but in my humble opinion, they just prove someone can pass a test, not how good they are at using a language.

Two things that can indicate a good grasp of a language, at least in the case of English, are the abilities to pun and to rhyme.

Punning is probably more difficult than rhyming, since it requires not only a good grasp of pronunciation and a swift vocabulary, but also knowledge of the meaning of a great many words and idioms. …

@JasperLoy yay!

lunches

user19161

It is fun to write a limerick
But even more so to do a Jimerick
With rhyme but no meter
It really does not matter
Just read, enjoy and put a tick!

11:31 AM

Anyway. Do someone know where @RegDwighт is hiding ;)

user19161

@Em1 Well, he is probably eating lunch now...

@JasperLoy Sounds reasonable :)

I will take a nap. Laters.

Hi.

@RegDwighт I know this as a story from Antiquity, but it doesn't have a name for me; it is certainly not as well known as the Gordian Knot.

I know Burridan (vaguely) as a philosopher.

11:50 AM

@KitFox I was online at the time, and in chat. Common courtesy would have been to approach me and say, “Hey, do you mind if I ..., because ...?” or perhaps an after-the-fact “Oh BTW, I just ...”. However, you did neither, which I find somewhere between cavalier and rude. A diamond does not absolve a person of the need for courtesy; indeed, it may be even more important here. Please consider using some next time around.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

morning @KitFox