English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

9:00 PM

psmears has been very quiet, he's spying on all of us...

Gigili

@JasperLoy Not yet, unfortunately. ubuntu user?

RegDwight

@JasperLoy To be fair, he wanted to take a break for the weekend.

I am surprised and honored to see him here today.

user19161

@Gigili Yes, but currently on Fedora. I have tried several distros, and I recommend Debian or Ubuntu.

Matt Ellen

@RegDwight I'm not sure if that's on a loop or not

I guess not

this bit is new

user19161

@Gigili But Debian is a bit hard to install, so for beginner just go with Ubuntu.

Gigili

9:02 PM

@JasperLoy I recommend windows 7 =\

user19161

@Gigili Sorry no money. :(

Gigili

schade ...

user19161

@Gigili Thanks for the German. Your name looks Italian. I used to sing Italian opera.

user19161

@MattEllen What's on a loop?

Gigili

@JasperLoy Huh, my nationality is more complicated than @RegDwight's.

RegDwight

9:06 PM

ˈχʊχːiˌχæʃtliˈχʊχːiˌχæʃtliˈχʊχːiˌχæʃtliˈχʊχːiˌχæʃtliˈχʊχːiˌχæʃtli

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy the sound file in the wikipedia article that RegDwight linked to. I can't speak the language (German?) it is in, so I found it hard to tell if it was saying the same thing over and over again or not.

RegDwight

Schwitzerdütsch.

Matt Ellen

I like that the dictionary I have installed for Firefox wants to correct wikipedia to windpipe

RegDwight

@RegDwight Actually, that's a lie. It's German with Swiss accent.

user19161

Hey, no sign of Kit and Grace. I thought they usually come at this time. I miss the girls, or maybe they are guys in disguise...

RegDwight

9:10 PM

They are whatever you want them to be. And then some.

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy Maybe it's not a disguise, but true self expression.

or as Freud would say when impersonating Zaphod Beeblebrox: Zay are just dis guys, you know?

user19161

Yesterday we were talking about half male, hale female. I wonder if they were secretly referencing their sexual orientation, hmmm...

Cerberus

Ahoy.

I pains me and pleases me to find this room in its old incomprehensible condition.

Matt Ellen

hi @Cerberus

user19161

@Cerberus Hello. Matt and Reg left the moment you came.

Matt Ellen

9:17 PM

It's true. I'm not here

Cerberus

Ah! I mean, I am used to scaring people away, but this was rather fast.

Matt Ellen

/away hiding in the borogrove

Cerberus

I see the bird here too... @Reg

user19161

It's 5 am here. When is it there Cerberus?

Cerberus

You were discussing Swiss German?

RegDwight

9:18 PM

Wow.

We were discussing everything but Swiss German.

Cerberus

It is only 11 pm here!

RegDwight

If Swiss German is all that interests you after this week then...

Cerberus

See? Already he is lying to me.

Well, I've had enough French for some time.

RegDwight

C'est vrai!

user19161

@MattEllen What are you drinking now, booze?

Cerberus

9:20 PM

enough != enough of

assez de

C'est magnifique!

maGnifique

@JasperLoy I've had a snifter of Southern Comfort, but no more :)

Cerberus

It seems the distinction is impossible in frogspeak...

user19161

9:20 PM

@MattEllen Well, I had coke at McDonald's a few hours ago.

RegDwight

Mar 14 at 14:26, by kiamlaluno

"Nobless s'oblique" (whatever it is written in French).

Cerberus

Aww you're still quoting that?

Let me quote something for once.

RegDwight

So, um. Are you up to date on the latest developments? Or any developments, for that matter?

Cerberus

14 mins ago, by RegDwight

Schwitzerdütsch.

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy golly! they sell hard drugs in fast food stores where you are? ;-)

user19161

9:22 PM

Hello alexg.

Cerberus

@RegDwight As always, not at all! But I suspect I know who joined our faction...

RegDwight

2 days ago, by RegDwight

@nohat That's where it all started, yes.

Start reading there.

You have six days worth of transcript to catch up.

And this time you must.

user19161

I must say hello to everyone who comes into this room , to let them know I know they're spying...

alexg

@JasperLoy hello!

Cerberus

@JasperLoy I appreciate it!

@RegDwight But but... what the hell happened? Jeff made Kosmo leave the site!?

RegDwight

9:24 PM

Yes, and that's only one thing you have to catch up on.

user19161

@alexg Ooo, Eng is the only one you joined so far...

RegDwight

Psmears and Rhodri are not participating either.

I don't know whom you have to thank that I am still here.

We have a new mod.

Matt Ellen

@RegDwight I think we can thank you!

RegDwight

Meta is on fire right now.

This chat was hell for like three days straight.

user19161

I'm just here to chat, feeling a bit lonely you know.

user19161

9:27 PM

Are there usually more people in chat on the weekdays or weekends?

Cerberus

How the hell did this all start? I do not like it one bit. Kosmo, of all people? He has always seemed moderate and balanced. Not one to lose his temper.

RegDwight

Yup.

Cerberus

Do I need to read some questions on meta? The chat log isn't very dense with information on that.

RegDwight

You must read all the stuff posted on meta in the last week, yes. The problem is that Jeff has edited some of the insulting comments since.

user19161

@Cerberus Meta has lots of stuff the past few days.

user19161

9:29 PM

@MattEllen I think I'll just have some cold water from the fridge now!

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy good choice.

RegDwight

@Cerberus Basically, we have "serious quality issues" and a "litany of problems", and Jeff is "embarrased" at the "puerile" stuff he sees here and "does not want to be associated" with us.

Cerberus

Arg I hate reading like all of meta.

Matt Ellen

I might put some water in the fridge to make it cold...

Alain Pannetier

Good evening everyone.

Matt Ellen

9:30 PM

good evening @AlainPannetier

Cerberus

@RegDwight Thanks for the summary. That seems pretty harsh out of context.

Bonjour Alain!

user19161

@MattEllen Don't put it into the freezer compartment though, unless you remember to take it out soon enough.

RegDwight

@Cerberus meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/1000/…

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy thanks! I wouldn't want to break my glass

MrHen

@Cerberus Actually, the context makes it harsher

Alain Pannetier

9:31 PM

@Cerberus, I will probably be in Dijon Wednesday and Thursday. If you happen to cruise this area of Europe...

MrHen

Although I don't know that the context still exists somewhere

BTW, welcome back.

user19161

@AlainPannetier What is the time there now?

user19161

@MrHen Hello.

Alain Pannetier

In France ? past 11.

MrHen

@JasperLoy Hello :)

Cerberus

9:33 PM

@AlainPannetier I just came back from there, alas! It was great, France being what she is.

@RegDwight Thanks, will read that one next (just found Jeff's deleted answer with the insults).

@MrHen Reading it as we speak...

RegDwight

Robusto is actually taking a break, too.

Alain Pannetier

I'll have to ask around if anyone has seen a tri-headed dog wandering then...

user19161

@AlainPannetier I just discovered that robusto is a cigar.

user19161

Alex is very quiet.

Jez

> I believe wikipedia is an extreme special case. That's like arguing the encyclopedia is a normal book. Hint: it isn't, it's a reference work.

Aren't these Q&A sites basically references too?

alexg

9:38 PM

@JasperLoy I am writing a new question in another tab

Alain Pannetier

@jasper, In case you wonder Alans are a nomadic tribe of Iranian ethnicity and Pannetier is French/Italian for baker.

user19161

@AlainPannetier So you are an Iranian baker. I see, everyone has a fake identity here, hehe.

Matt Ellen

@Jez Jeff has literally blown my mind. If this is not aiming to be reference site then what on earth is it aim for?

Cerberus

@RegDwight I have a feeling my reading up on this conflict any more would kill all the fun I have on this site. From what I read of Jeff's comments, he is as undiplomatic as ever. I do not think he thinks about language quite the same way as most linguists do. Is this row between him and Kosmonaut available anywhere?

MrHen

@Jez Not really. SE is more like the reference desk where people go to get answers that aren't easily found in normal references.

Jez

9:43 PM

@MrHen still the same ballpark.

MrHen

(Or at least that's how I see it.)

@Jez Still, there is a difference between a dictionary and a librarian.

Cerberus

I'd like to read that but ignore the rest of this problem, unless I can do either or both of the following: 1. help improve the situation, 2. support/comfort those treated wrongly.

RegDwight

@Cerberus I am not sure how much of it has survived all of Jeff's edits. Also, there's at least one deleted answer of his with lots of comments underneath, but as a 10k user you should be able to see them.

Cerberus

I have seen that one.

Jez

@MrHen Not a difference that would involve fundamentally changing the answers given. Unless the librarian was a prude...

MrHen

9:45 PM

@Cerberus Improving of the situation has now landed on Meta, for the most part

Cerberus

That must be his "insulting apology".

MrHen

@Jez I was just pointing out the difference between SE and Wikipedia. I have no idea what context the quote was from.

RegDwight

@Cerberus Check your pings.

Cerberus

@MrHen Hmm... anywhere specific that I could help, on meta?

MrHen

@Cerberus Sure, links incoming. Give me a sec

meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/featured

That is a good start

7

Q: Problem with faq: EL&U audience - experts only or students too?

The fine list of frequently asked questions and answers has in its opening paragraph two contradicting notions: The English Language and Usage Stack Exchange is for linguists, etymologists, and (serious) English language enthusiasts. which then continues with examples of topic welcome at th...

discussion

Cerberus

9:47 PM

@RegDwight I have read them all, but didn't find that much in their near vicinity...

@MrHen Thanks.

MrHen

And nohat just put up another one

RegDwight

@Cerberus I mean on the main site.

MrHen

@Cerberus Here is the new moderator meta announcement:

6

Q: Another Community Moderator

Stack Exchange sites are largely self-policed by the community, but we also need leaders from the site whose focus is to provide additional moderation support and site management as community moderators. It is important that the community moderators are a team of members, sharing the load of the ...

discussion moderators

Cerberus

@RegDwight I got two on the main site, but those didn't seem related to all this? I'm probably missing something obvious (as always).

RegDwight

K then forget about all this just for a moment, we have a different war to fight, so check the WMT room.

Cerberus

9:53 PM

Probably a good idea... I just absolutely hate involving myself in internet wars, unless I can help win one or care for the wounded. It is just utterly fruitless. My regard of Jeff is very clear from earlier threads where I gave my opinion.

Jez

5

A: Are minor jokes in answers and questions OK when they are slightly discriminating against certain groups?

Yes, innocent jokes like this are perfectly fine, Left Head. I make them too. A long invective against religion is not OK, of course; but this is a minor thing, just a matter of style. Someone else might post in reply "I'm sure the Devil will find that entertaining: you should repeat it when you ...

> Yes, innocent jokes like this are perfectly fine, Left Head.

hahaha

►

Cerberus

10:13 PM

@Jez bows Thanks! Glad you got it...

@Jez Haha, very nice.

Robusto

10:25 PM

Hey doggie. WB.

@Cerb ^

RegDwight

@Robusto Boys room.

MrHen

@RegDwight That's not a nice thing to call someone.

Robusto

On mobile atm. Link?

RegDwight

@MrHen Sorry, nice boys room.

Cerberus

@Robusto Yo! And welcome to the Commies!

RegDwight

10:29 PM

Don't disorient him like that.

Cerberus

But it feels so good.

bmike

Hey everyone.

Cerberus

Hai!

Feeling English today?

bmike

I just asked my first question here and have another I'm sitting on till I get a better feel for the regulars.

Figured I'd pop in and chat a bit ;-)

Cerberus

Cool!

Let me see that question of yours...

bmike

10:43 PM

7

Q: Looking for a better term than 'benign envy' or 'mudita'

Often when I'm happy for someone's good fortune or success, I find myself using the words envious or envy. In casual speech with friends, voice tone and familiarity help deliver my positive intent, but I don't like the negative connotation of the word - especially the part where it intends other...

single-word-requests

Mr Hen was all over it with a nice long answer already

but that was before I put up the image...

@Cerberus How did you choose the handle cerberus? (or did it choose you)

Cerberus

@bmike Good question. I have no idea! Those answers seem pretty good. I doubt there is a real word that means exactly what you're looking for. Your table is insightful.

Matt Ellen

@bmike: great table!

Cerberus

@bmike I picked that when I was 17 and first needed an on-line name on MSN chat or something, when that was quite new. I always use it where possible.

Yours?

(I have always been a classics geek, that might explain things.)

bmike

Oh - mike is always taken

bmike was the user name i prefer.

I'm used to it being spelled Kerberos from computer systems of old...

I figure there isn't a real word - just as shadenfreude was borrowed, so was mudita - but I was curious what others used.

I agree there are a whole lot of great suggestions. I'll try out several over the next few days and pick a answer as I try some out.

@MattEllen Thanks! It was fun trying to match the font color and background - the jpg background wasn't as intense - maybe there's a css transparency layer over the main site text. Close enough for me (the first attempt clashed horribly)

@Cerberus That's great - the classics get better and better the more I live and learn. I so need to visit greece and kick start my learning again.

Cerberus

11:02 PM

Kerberos would be the Greek spelling, but... Greek spelling in Latin letters is always a bit ugly. I use that in scientific etc. writing only.

@bmike Heh, the "good" thing is that the Ancients are all dead. No need to visit Greece for that!

Matt Ellen

quick poll on the pronunciation of minotaur. What're this room's occupants' opinions?

I go with my-nŏ-tor

RegDwight

I apologize for the lack of participation on behalf of all the lacking participants.

(Oh, and I have no idea.)

Matt Ellen

No worries :)

Cerberus

The y = /aj/?

Matt Ellen

time for me to sleep, according to my yawn-o-meter

Cerberus

11:16 PM

I think I'd pronounce it as you do, but I'm not so sure...

Matt Ellen

@Cerberus I've copied it from my dictionary, which for some reason is using a different pronunciation guide to the IPA

Alain Pannetier

@MattEllen, since Minos is pronounced My-nos, I'd go along with your proposal.

Matt Ellen

@Cerberus so in this instance it's y as in my or fly

Alain Pannetier

@MattEllen, actually "Minoan" is "mee"

Cerberus

forvo.com/word/minotaur/#en

Those Brits say /aj/; the American girl seems off; the Brit on Howjsay says /i/.

I'd say both are acceptable.

user19161

11:19 PM

@MattEllen See oxfordadvancedlearnersdictionary.com/dictionary/minotaur

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy excellent! thanks

user19161

I am about to sleep too. Goodnight everyone!

Matt Ellen

goodnight @JasperLoy

me too g'night all you crazy cats

Cerberus

Adios! Night, both!

RegDwight

11:34 PM

Right.

I'm out, too.

Good luck and good night.

bracho monacho

11:46 PM

Morning everyone =)

Cerberus

Night!

bracho monacho

Oh, I thought that everyone had smelt me coming, and departed...

I was going to use it as an opportunity to talk to myself like a crazy person.

Cerberus

@Reg: In case you missed it, the present conflict is about every single 10k+ EL&U user versus Stackexchange, i.e. everyone who is interested in English supports Kosmonaut and you.

@brachomonacho Not at all! But people are often doing several different things at a time.

bracho monacho

Yes, I know the feeling...

I think I have no less than 15 browser tabs open at the moment

Cerberus

Exactly!

I had 100 permanently open on my previous profile until I decided to close them all because their number kept growing...

bracho monacho

11:59 PM

Wow... I think my laptop would explode if I tried doing that. (Windows Vista; too lazy to uninstall).

Cerberus

Hehe.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…