English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@MattEllen Surprise, fear, ruthless efficiency and an almost fanatical devotion to the pope.

It's really not helped by the fact that the latest edition was neither blue nor brown.

user19161

I was actually referencing the blue book of grammar and punctuation by jane straus

I do love this room

6:09 PM

@Rhodri "freshers"?

@JasperLoy That's the one I was referring to as well.

@Kit Freshmen, I assume.

@MattEllen ... and you could ~~have~~ of started so much earlier!

@MattEllen It could do with a nice rug though, to tie the whole room together...

~~A cunning one~~ Not really. I learned Latin at school, it's just I use it a fair bit at church.

@kit 1st year undergradtuates

sentence part-of-speech programming

6:10 PM

@Martha That's right.

simchona

/off topic: Should I tell this guy I'm a programmer too?...

0

Q: Does/Do question

What part of speech does this sentence break? (I mean the does part of the following sentence) What does the status indicators mean? Also, why does english.stackexchange.com have a code option for formatting... Maybe BASIC or Apple script qualifies as English.

I don't know who wrote it. I only know it's the style manual I used in high school that my mother used the version that was actually the right color.

@GraceNote There's no need to be racist.

giggle

user19161

@Kit That book is more of an avoid common mistakes kind, not a detailed treatise on grammar or punctuation.

@RegDwight Well, see, that was just math. I have a degree in the stuff, after all. But transport? server? Eh???

6:11 PM

@simchona I have a better idea! Let me tell him that Robusto is a piper! That will confuse him!

@Kit unionjacks.org.uk/union-jack-rugs-doormats.htm ;)

@Martha There's either a transport layer or a transport socket that is responsible for moving the info from one place over to another. In this case, the server is the destination. That make sense?

@RegDwight Naughty! Don't set a bad example!

user19161

I just got my hardcopy of Larry Trask Guide to Punctuation. It might be too prescriptivist for the guys here though.

The actual thing being a layer or socket, and what a layer or socket actually mean and do, are irrelevant, the point is that whatever it is and whatever it does, it transports data from point A to point B

6:12 PM

@MattEllen Pah. None of them are actually on a jack.

@MattEllen Well, as a Yank, I think it might be nice to rest my dogs on a symbol of the British empire...

@GraceNote No. Does it have something to do with email? Because if it does, I can ignore this stupid error. Otherwise, I have to fix something.

user19161

Maybe I'll take a look at Carter and McCarthy for grammar, though some speak poorly about it.

@Martha Oh, you really needed help?

@Martha Email would be one example of something that uses a transport layer or transport socket.

(It's been a couple years since I did this stuff, so someone who has it fresher on their mind, I'd be grateful for the assistance in assistance!)

6:13 PM

@Kit I always need help, didn't you know?

user19161

Alain posted sth on meta about sockpuppets. Why was it removed?

@Martha I can't follow through this thread. Want to get a room together?

And call it "War Metal Martha"!

@JasperLoy Prescriptivist can be good when there's some reason to stick to a style (consistency with your company or university's style, etc.) and you often have to understand a bit of the "rules" to understand what breaking them might mean.

@RegDwight That's dangerous. If I'm a guy in a room like that, who knows what I might try with @Martha.

user19161

6:15 PM

@RegDwight Is that a gaming room?

@JasperLoy Dunno, you'd have to ask Jeff.

@JasperLoy You know that game???

user19161

This room trains my multitasking. I think women are better at that than men.

@JasperLoy Oh, and: our meta or meta.SO?

@JasperLoy No, women are not better at multitasking; they are just worse at ignoring useless stuff.

@Kit Actually, I've been googling on the side here, and I'm almost certain it's something to do with email, which means I can just ignore it.

user19161

6:16 PM

@RegDwight Our meta, but after I woke up from my sleep a few days ago it was gone, think we'll have to ask Alain.

@Martha rats

@JasperLoy This sounds like a question for Skeptics. That probably already has been answered.

@aedia True. For example, I love "Eats, Shoots and Leaves", but I don't follow it slavishly.

@RegDwight meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/1488/…

user19161

@RegDwight No I hate computer games, just happened to spy on you guys talking about it.

6:17 PM

@RegDwight It's because of us that there is useless stuff.

@JasperLoy I'm a console junkie myself. But I am addicted to this one (browser/flash, not computer) game. Go figure.

@JasperLoy What? When? Who told you?

@RegDwight Which consoles?

All of them

@RegDwight I love you.

user19161

@Kit What are you referring to?

6:18 PM

Well, technically, I usually buy the second-to-last generation.

@JasperLoy Nothing! I don't know what you mean!

@RegDwight Good. I'm glad you're a console junky.

@RegDwight Colecovision?

@Kit Nah. When PSP came out, I bought the N64 Mario package.

Etc.

I play the cutting-edge stuff at my friend's place.

Interesting.

Whoa!

6:20 PM

So you're a times-behind, semi-console junky.

At home, I'm playing Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Tetris, stuff like that.

You're an owl again!

And now not!

@Kit I figured drastic situations required drastic measures.

user19161

@kit What is this thing about reg's zen being big?

blink, blink

@JasperLoy More lines embiggens the man.

6:21 PM

@RegDwight But 'ave you got Magical Pop'n?

@Kit chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/1349746#1349746 the secret's out

@GraceNote As an emulator zip, yes. Totally legal, of course.

@RegDwight You need it on cartridge. Is more fun. Very hard to find, though. But at least you've played it.

@JasperLoy It was removed because spelling out protections that are in the system like that is a dangerous way to say "yo, this is what we do, so if you want to wreak havoc, here's your cheat-sheet!"

@MattEllen What secret? I categorically deny having any involvement! On the advice of counsel, I'd like to invoke my Fifth amendment rights at this time.

6:22 PM

Oh, hey, @Rebecca.

Oh, hey, @GraceNote.

user19161

@RebeccaChernoff Ya I suspected too.

Oh, hey, @RegDwight.

@RebeccaChernoff Did everything about the whole 4th runner get finished up whilst I was out?

Am I doing it right?

user19161

6:24 PM

By the way do we get suspended for upvoting others?

MartyIX

Hello, does it make sense to write: the number of current page? Or is it better to write "current page number"? It seems to me both versions are possible and equal.

@JasperLoy If you do it egregiously for abusive purposes, then you might get warned, and if you ignore warnings, then you might get suspended.

@JasperLoy You can if it's a problem.

@MartyIX: the correct way for the first version would be the number of the current page

user19161

@MartyIX How about just current page is 11.

6:25 PM

@MartyIX the current page number or the number of the current page Yes.

user19161

@GraceNote Full disclosure: I do it sometimes, but only a few at a time.

@Martha I think so too... I would guess it says transport referring to SMTP transport, and the reason it uses the word transport is because of the Transport layer in the OSI model or the Transport layer in the TCP/IP model or both. Not that you need to know anymore.

@MartyIX: without the definite article (i.e. the) you are stating how many of something there is, like the number of pineapples [is 2]

@JasperLoy Abuse would be if you are upvoting the user rather than the answer or question.

@JasperLoy @Kit's got the right of it. As long as you aren't doing it in a problematic fashion, you're fine.

@aedia I knew it was a layer or a socket thing!

user19161

6:26 PM

Well, I do it because I like the user, but I don't do too many (so I'm kinda gaming system)

@GraceNote @RebeccaChernoff Colour me interested in that too. Not that I have any rights in the matter, but the spin is fascinating.

@JasperLoy Well, then, give me your wrist. I've got a ruler here somewhere.

user19161

@Kit LOL

@Rhodri Technically, you have more rights into the matter than I do. I'm asking it on the behalf of you guys, so to speak.

2 days ago, by Martha

@Kit I have vague recollections about another site appointing the runner-up in the mod elections when one of the mods had to leave. Except I think I was the runner-up in our elections, and right now, I really don't want the job. More to the point, you don't want me anywhere near the job if you know what's good for you.

6:28 PM

Do you mean about @Martha and the modship?

user19161

@Rhodri Your avatar looks cool too, like matt's

@JasperLoy Thanks.

@JasperLoy Thanks :D

@RebeccaChernoff There was something earlier today about it. Lemme see if I can find it.

user19161

@Rhodri I will change mine when and if I look better, that was more than a decade ago.

6:29 PM

@RebeccaChernoff It still would've been nice to be actually be asked. 'Cause right now I'm feeling a bit like chopped liver.

@RebeccaChernoff If that's the reason, someone needs to correct Jeff's inaccurate statement

Well, there's @Martha, so never mind.

@Martha Please don't. You're at least as good as unchopped liver.

And dammit, my boss' timing SUCKS. Gotta go. @RebeccaChernoff, I think you have my email address?

@Martha that certainly wasn't the intention by any means. Just seemed like you had preemptively declined. |:

6:32 PM

@MichaelMyers One last THWACK before I go.

user19161

@RebeccaChernoff Today I noticed the was this helpful below every question and answer if you are not logged in. What's that for?

I'm honored.

@RebeccaChernoff I can understand that reasoning, but then saying that she was asked is Just Plain Wrong.

Q: Anonymous user feedback now in testing

31

Anonymous and unregistered users with < 15 reputation (the amount required to earn the upvote privilege) will now see this question/answer was helpful on every post in the area that a logged in user would see "add comment": When the post area is moused over, the area expands to: ...

discussion unregistered-users anonymous

the message I quoted, especially with the italics, didn't indicate much uncertainty, that's all

6:33 PM

@MichaelMyers I have plans for you that involve a lot of sharp instruments, now, mmyers.

@GraceNote As long as they're all sharp by the same amount, you can't hurt me.

@MichaelMyers Will type that down for future reference, thanks.

@GraceNote I can recommend a good tuning service

Happy to oblige

Works best for those who, like me, do not have perfect pitch. I.e., almost everyone.

@Rhodri Only if they don't deal any of those flat instruments.

6:36 PM

@MichaelMyers Please pick the approximate amount of sharpness.

@MichaelMyers @GraceNote @Rhodri collective THWACK

Jun 7 at 13:25, by Vitaly

@Kit I thought I was safe since Martha left. Completely forgot she delegated in her absence.

@RegDwight That looks like a bunch of venomous fangs for a bunch of different critters. Plus a hypodermic needle.

Now, what was the secret ninja code for finding all closed questions?

user19161

6:37 PM

@RegDwight Is your avatar real or computer generated?

@GraceNote You were around when it got posted. Cheater.

@Kit closed:1

@Kit closed:1 ?

@GraceNote Junx!

You actually brought it to my attention because I was in a different room at that time.

@GraceNote @MattEllen Thanks kiss

6:38 PM

@MattEllen I'll say Jynx, since you junked that one.

I say Джинкс.

Insta-win.

and I say tomato

@RegDwight Did I? I only remember prodding you about this room when there was an unexplained and mrrm message that I was decidedly miffed about.

user19161

@MattEllen It's interesting how tomato and potato are pronounced differently.

@GraceNote You did.

6:40 PM

So when the question is closed as a duplicate, what nice thing should we say?

Oh. That was that day.

@JasperLoy NO THEY'RE NOT GO AWAY YOU HEATHEN

@JasperLoy indeed it is, because THEY ARE.

@MichaelMyers Easy there, Capitalist.

I have no idea why it's so

6:41 PM

@Kit "Welcome to English! It seems that you should be able to find your answer to your question over here. For your convenience, it is <yadda-yadda>" is one example.

user19161

@MattEllen I was talking about the Br pronunciation here, for everyone's info.

@JasperLoy Yeah, I got that :D I was just trying to rile @MichaelMyers

@GraceNote "And if you can't, then post again?"

That said, that's more for what we do on Meta Stack Overflow, where we don't so much care for needing people to vote on support questions, so we benefit a lot more by providing immediate assistance rather than waiting for them to follow the link.

@Kit You sure you really want to start by annotating duplicates?

6:42 PM

You say "potato", I say "raw french fries".

@RegDwight It was the first on the list.

@MichaelMyers You say "chips" I say "crisps"

@Kit If you don't think the target question answers their question, I'd not vote to close but instead start a comment string asking them if the answers at the target question are the answers they need.

user19161

I hope the French proposal goes through, from 3 it has become 1, which is a good thing.

The above was for if it's quite definitely a duplicate. I don't know how easy that distinction is on English.

Q: "Possible duplicate" message is difficult to notice

6:43 PM

@Kit Well, in that case, as Grace said, you probably should start by saying "Hello X and welcome to the site, your question has been closed as a duplicate of LINK", because some people just don't notice the auto-inserted duplicate link.

15

Update 2011-04-27: Jin removed the quotation image altogether here When a question is closed as a duplicate, the duplicate question is selected (by the users who vote to close) and then attached automatically to the top of the message. However, the message is attached as a quote. As you ca...

bug design

user19161

It's interesting how aubergine=brinjal=eggplant.

@JasperLoy aubergine in Russian is baklajan.

RIghty ho. I need to go and enjoy myself now. As distinct from work, you understand :-)

Same etymology. That's how crazy languages are.

@RegDwight Ok. What if they don't think the duplicate answers their question?

user19161

6:45 PM

@RegDwight Where I live we call it brinjal only.

@JasperLoy Sounds distinctly related to me.

@Kit They should start by leaving a comment; if everyone ignores that ask on meta; in no case should they open yet another identical question.

@RegDwight Ok.

@Kit And it doesn't have to be technical like that. Because it's already difficult enough for some to grasp what a dupe is. If you have to explain meta to them, it only gets worse.

@Kit They need to explain what about it doesn't answer their question. Then, they can revise their question to reflect on that portion, if it is indeed its own question.

Also, actually telling them not to open further dupes could come across as insulting.

6:50 PM

@RegDwight I was planning to skip that part.

So I usually only comment to that extent when it actually happens.

K.

@RebeccaChernoff: BTW is the SO team maintaining some sort of "lessons learned" notes from the occurrences of the past few days?

It strikes me that doing so would (1) hopefully help avoid things getting quite so bad in the future (or at least, put better more quickly if they do), and (2) publishing such a list (or at least, edited highlights) would go a long way towards reassuring the community that things will be better in the future...

How is this?

Hello and welcome to the site! Your question has been closed as a duplicate of another. If you read that post and still don't feel that your question has been answered, then please feel free to edit this question to reflect what part of the answer in the duplicate you find confusing. If you have questions about why your post was closed, please leave a comment here or ask on Meta

MartyIX

@Jasper, @Kit: Thank you! Sorry for late reply but it seems the chat doesn't update in my browser correctly (Google Chrome)

@psmears we are always learning (:

6:56 PM

@Kit That's friendly without being condescending. I hope the effected users take the time to read it.

@Kit maybe change confusing for incomplete? Or insufficient? just to further cushion the questioner's ego

@MattEllen Affected.

@Kit damn. I always get that wrong

@MattEllen It doesn't help that the verbs are opposite of the nouns.

@Kit it does not

word-choice paronyms look-alikes

@Kit That's an affective trap, innit?

21

Q: Effect vs. Affect

I've noticed that some people use effect and affect interchangeably. What are the differences between these two and when are the proper situations to use each of them?

3

Q: What's an easy way to remember when to use "affect" or "effect"?

Is there an easy way to remember when to use the word affect or effect in a sentence? It is very confusing, and I still get them mixed up.

word-usage mnemonic

Wow, the latter one is still open?

I remember arguing it should be closed.

7:01 PM

Working as a neuroscientist for five years really hammered home the differences.

@Kit You're trying to set up that cookie cutter script, aren't you?

The effect of affecting the affect effectively effects the affective disorder.

@GraceNote Yep. Just so I have something to start with.

@MichaelMyers Oh noes, not XKCD. Thus begins the decline of this chat room. It was nice while it lasted.

7:03 PM

@RebeccaChernoff Oh, I'm sure you are :) But writing it down is often a good way to ensure it says learnt - and, as I say, could help reassure us of the fact.

(I, for one, am debating whether to stay around on the site at all based on the impression I get of whether this will happen again - indeed I have largely stopped contributing to the main site - and others have expressed similar sentiments. I'm here on chat/meta in the hope of being constructive and helping things go in the right direction - but anything the SO team can do to reassure us would be really positive :) )

@RegDwight chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=xkcd&room=95

Apr 22 at 21:53, by RegDwight

You post another XKCD, I'll kick you again.

Ulp.

Genau.

May 5 at 21:54, by RegDwight

@MrHen Careful, U2 translates to instant kick in this room.

@psmears Would you accept typing as a suitable substitution for writing? (;

@RebeccaChernoff I'm quite easygoing on that, yes ;)

@Kit What kind of studies did you get up to? I found that and the experimental side of cognitive psychology to be the most interesting at uni.

7:07 PM

For the honor of Frig. How is it this late already? I have really done nothing today. I hope it goes unnoticed.

@MattEllen I studied Parkinson's disease. skipping gaily along and pretending work doesn't exist

@Kit Chat went quiet for half an hour in the afternoon. I did some work then.

@psmears That's when I was having lunch.

@Kit Best answer ever.

Maybe if I fill in a bunch of "N/A"s on my testing spreadsheet, it will look like I did something.

Except that it was another one/

7:10 PM

@RegDwight That's when I was carrying you?

@Kit You do neuro?

A: If I invent a word, what language is it?

20

If you use the word when speaking English, then it is an English word.

@GraceNote Did. Past tense.

@Kit Ooh. Not so much now.

@Kit Doed. Past tense.

7:11 PM

@RegDwight ROFLMFAO. x10. +3 ogre power.

@RegDwight Now who's punchy?

Q: My not use commas "," to separate fractional thousands?

Jun 11 at 13:20, by RegDwight

Proper English would be "How canned I doed not knowed that."

Meanwhile, this:

0

We often use commas to separate thousands like: 1,000,000 = 1e6 Why not use it on the right of the decimal point also, like: 0.000,0001 = 1e-6 so that we can read such numbers easier. I often see people write 0.0000230 and I was thinking that a better way would be 0.000,0230.

comma numbers

Anybody willing to close-vote before I do? Any objections?

Ex—term—in—ate!

You should totally have migrated it to Writers.

Writers is the new Wrongers.

do mods or 10k users get a nuke from orbit button? For especially bad questions.

@MattEllen Only mods can nuke, I think.

7:16 PM

May 1 at 21:42, by Robusto

They get this on a T-Shirt.

@RegDwight excellent :D

If they print it out and bring it to a T-shirt shop, that is.

@RegDwight If I get to 10K, can I have it on panties instead?

damn

@Kit Yes. In that case the procedure is slightly different, though. You have to print it out and bring it to a panties shop. Note the second step.

The third step is as usual.

@RegDwight What's the third step?

7:17 PM

Profit.

You pineapple.

I mean, seriously.

@RegDwight ha ha ha

@RegDwight I eat pineapple for breakfast.

That's how I profit.

@Kit Do they protest?

I sure would.

@RegDwight No, they pay for it.

I sure wouldn't.

Except with my life.

Q: What is the expression/common form to express that one will stay long term somewhere

toothy grin

I'll accept that form of payment.

0

Say I've briefly lived somewhere but now I want to return and stay there longer. Here is a paragraph of how I express it. Please suggest improvements. The new development looks really awesome. I had a brief stint (1 year) in town XXXXX in 2003 -2004 at Great Bears development, shortly after ...

expressions

This seems like Writers.

7:21 PM

@Kit like that of the grim reaper :O

I voted to move it, but now I'm not so sure.

It seems more of a "look in the thesaurus" type of question to me

@MattEllen Meh, maybe no so much if you're looking for an expression, but it is rather subjective.

OK, my peeps, I'm gonna make like a moonshiner and butt out. See you later, crocodylomorphae!

hasta luego!

F'x

7:46 PM

@AlainPannetier! Do you know anything about wine? I have a very important question... I need to figure out what wine I can bring to someone's party, when she already knows a lot about wine.

Also, Herr Eulenspiegel kommt zurück.

@Robusto Am... am I supposed to know who that is?

I just mean @RegDwight got his owl back.

@Robusto Did he?

7:52 PM

@Robusto Ohh. I see. My cultural education is clearly lacking, but I think I get it now.

@GraceNote — You can see that he did.

Jul 6 at 15:45, by RegDwight

@Robusto Not without refreshing the client.

2 hours ago, by RegDwight

@Kit I figured drastic situations required drastic measures.

Also, @Robusto.

@GraceNote — You should always refresh the client. Otherwise ...

Gigili

7:53 PM

Do we have an English word "busi-ness"? being busy

Alain Pannetier

@aedia, I'm back, please ask. I'll do my best. And a lot of other people will probably also be inspired...

The Owl is Back. Deal with it.

yesterday, by RegDwight

The Bitch Is Back

"The Bitch Is Back" is a rock song by Elton John, written with Bernie Taupin. It was the second single released from his 1974 album Caribou, and reached number 1 in Canada (his sixth in that country), number 4 in the United States and number 15 in the United Kingdom.. The song has been identified as is one of Elton John's best hard rock cuts. The song was twice recorded by Tina Turner: once for her Rough album in 1978, and again for the John/Taupin tribute album Two Rooms in 1991. Turner also performed the song in her live show in the late 1970s, and with Elton John at the VH1 Fashion a...

@Gigili Usually we just pronounce a word that sounds like "busy-ness".

O Noble Owl, how we missed ye!

See, this place started to go downhill when @Reg switched to a viazchacootchie or whatever you call it.

@Robusto I knew everyone would blame me for all this!

(And I changed my gravatar only to celebrate my birthday... sniff)

7:56 PM

@RegDwight Oh, was it that time of year? Happy year older ♪

@GraceNote <insert unoriginal statement about $var++ here>

@RegDwight — See? Selfish interests.

@AlainPannetier I have a wine-loving friend celebrating a birthday soon. She likes her white wine moderately dry I think (like pinot gris maybe?) and she likes reds, but I don't know too much about what ones, as red wine that's local to MD/DC USA is well, kind of terrible and when we have been out to festivals we have tried local wines.

"I changed my gravatar to a viscacha and all I got was all hell breaking loose and NO STUPID T-SHIRT!"

3

@AlainPannetier Now that I think about that, it's like, not very helpful information.

7:59 PM

@RegDwight — Yes. We have you to thank for the 6-8 weeks delay as well. I forgot about that.