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12:08 AM
@kiamlaluno Well, there's this one:
2
Q: "Ending with" vs "ending in"

NikolaiIn one of my letters, I used the phrase "card number ending with 5612". It was pointed out by our analyst that this was a grammatical mistake, the correct phrase was "card number ending in". I was pretty much baffled. To demonstrate the phrase "ending with" is correct I offer the following examp...

But I sorta like the duplicate question better - the old one is too specific.
 
Oh, I already voted that. :-)
 
12:32 AM
0
A: What is the etymology of "cornhole"?

MrHenThe Google Books search for "cornhole" between 1900-1965 reveals usage as anal sexing or people's names. The earliest sex reference in their list seems to be 1951 with "Don't let him cornhole you!" Moving the search to 1995-2005 begins revealing references to the game. All other date ranges previ...

Well, that is not how I was expecting to spend my evening
Anyone have some spare mindbleach?
 
12:44 AM
LOL! Sorry, all out of mindbleach.
 
1:10 AM
I have a sponge; is the same?
May we stop with those "what does the newspaper article mean, with that sentence?" questions?
Really, it's always the same user who asks those questions.
 
1:59 AM
@MrHen — I can't imagine that being worth a 500-point bounty. Someone is seriously interested in that subject.
 
 
5 hours later…
6:50 AM
All alone in here.
 
@Eugene Not quite alone. But it is quiet at this time of day.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:15 AM
Hi all!!!
It's a nice foggy weather in Taiwan today. Not hot, not cool. Really cool!!! :)
Hmm. Just realized that I am talking to a void - there's no one in this room at the moment. All right, will wait till you all wake up :)
 
 
1 hour later…
10:31 AM
@MrHen don't worry, @kiamlaluno must have forgotten that I can still see that post's history.
 
10:50 AM
@kiamlaluno Why do you want to stop them? I am afraid I am going to have a lot of questions on some newspaper articles, some places of which I don't understand.
 
11:18 AM
Well, how's it hanging this morning, Mr. Priapus?
@RegDwight: Lo and behold, my rainbow is back. It seems a higher power intervened.
5
A: Do people see the same seven colour bands in the rainbow?

RobustoYou can think of the seven colors as being nodes in the spectrum of visible light, those which are striking enough for human beings (at least English-speaking ones) to have assigned names. There are other colors, of course, even named ones, but those stand apart from the familiar named colors of ...

 
@Robusto The highest, no less!
 
"Yea, a Daniel come to court!"
 
I find it odd that it got deleted when (a) it's basically as much of an answer as anyone could really give, and (b) the questioner had already commented that you'd answered his question :-/
 
@Robusto ...
Yourself? Or, rather, how's things with you?
 
Yeah. Very aggressive moderation, IMO. Well, I did kind of wave a flag in his face. But his request for a citation there seemed a bit overreaching. And the citation Jeff gave basically said nothing new, just a Wikipedia ref, which is no doubt just the contribution of some person like me who has seen the usage firsthand.
@MrDisappointment — Fine, but busier than f*ck.
 
11:28 AM
Greetings.
 
@Robusto Sorry, had to write a lengthy comment on Alain's answer, because it makes exactly zero comma zilch sense to me.)))
 
@Robusto I see, busy as f*ck defining the perception of rainbows, apparently...
 
4
A: What is the origin, and correct spelling of, "shtook"?

Alain PannetierI've done a little bit of research about this "shtook" slung term and it looks like the Yiddish origin cannot be ruled out so easily. To sum it up, I've come to the conclusion that the most probable origin is an abbreviation of the phrase shtuck dreck which means piece of crap and it comes from ...

No offense, but this is just smoke and mirrors IMHO.
 
@Robusto Just kidding, obviously everybody here has much more to do than put people straight on the internet. ;p
 
Well, it has a certain plausibility, though that isn't an affirmative defense for it.
 
11:31 AM
[Insert xkcd comic]
Jinx!
 
I knew it.
 
@MrDisappointment — obligatory xkcd ref
 
Yeah but he actually does it.
 
Absolutely required, I ought've thought about it first.
 
@you
 
11:32 AM
@Robusto As I said, there's also "sztuk" in Polish which is the accusative genitive case of "art". Now what? How's that for plausibility?
 
@RegDwight Yes. I frequently find myself in an "art" when I've bollixed things up.
 
In deep art, no less.
 
It does have a Yiddish feel to it. I bowed to your massive citational authority and deleted my own response to that question, but I can't help feeling a little vindicated now. Alain has struck a blow for freedom, against Soviet oppression. That's worth something.
 
Oh, I didn't even notice that your answer is gone...
 
So you don't see every sparrow that falls. Feet of clay, Mr. Commissar. Feet of cuh-lay.
 
11:37 AM
Re: "it does have a Yiddish feel to it", check out Partridge once again: "probably formed on the Yiddish model of a reduplicated word commencing with a ‘sh’ sound".
If you specifically coin a word to have a Russian feel to it, then it will have a Russian feel to it.
Robustovskiy.
There you have your feel.
That's not a Russian word, though.
 
Hello all !
 
Ha! There he is.))) Hello @Alain.
 
If I may jump in !
 
Sure, catch up with my bashing you first.
 
No prob @Reg !
I trust your ethics, don't worry !
 
11:40 AM
Famous last words. Why, thank you.
 
@RegDwight — Methinks the Commie doth protest too much.
 
That's how them Commies roll.
I have to live up to the expectations.
 
I can understand the "leap" is far from a certain explanation.
 
@Alain, fight it out with the Commie usurper.
 
Imagine if I were just your usual Yet-Another-American. How boring this place would be.
 
11:42 AM
It is quite possible that I've connected some dots that were a little bit remote one from the other.
 
@AlainPannetier Yeah, that's kinda what I was trying to say with my comment.
But I mean, make no mistake, I don't know the answer, either.
 
However, the links between "shtick" and "shtuck" are not my fact. I know just a bisschen German (and no Yiddish at all). I found it in 2 of the refs I cite. I'd be happy if other readers could add some dots actually. The risk when you publicise a speculation is that it is revealed as wrong but that's a progress anyway.
Also when people start a phrase saying "I'm in deep <whatever>" to mean "problem", the metaphore is always a little bit scatologic whatever the language. (Pinker again ? ;-)
 
In tiefer Trauer.
In deep sorrow.
 
Granted
 
:-)
 
11:50 AM
Traurig - sad
Trauer is doch nicht das selbe als Schwierigkeit/Problem
 
Eben.
 
0
Q: Are there sounds where the tongue is not symmetrical?

TimAre there sounds in English languages and accents where the tongue does not move symmetrically in the mouth, i.e. the right side of the tongue is not moving like the left side?

It's more of a front-to-back thing, I reckon.
 
Yeah.
Basically it's about changing the resonance space.
0
Q: How to pronounce "quup" ?

ilker Aksuquup will be a project name and I want to know how it may pronounced. PS: I am not native English speaker.

 
@RegDwight — English wouldn't use the preposition in in that case, except as a stylistic reach. Normal usage would be to say "with deep sorry" or "with deep sadness" etc. When we use "in deep NOUN" the NOUN is usually scatological.
 
I wonder what to do with this one.
@Robusto yeah, I was talking about German.
The "in deep sorrow" was a literal translation.
I'm not fluent in Yiddish, but I'm sure they have a lot of non-scatological in's, too.
Anyhow, back to quup. I see a vote for "too localized", and I almost closed as such, but then I checked Google and there seem to be an awful lot of quups out there.
 
12:01 PM
@RegDwight If they OP coined the term and they don't know how they should pronounce it, how should we know? Even if we did know, if it isn't what the OP wants to hear it can be deemed useless.
 
Yeah, all I'm saying is that it could be re-worded to be more on-topic.
I'm not saying I'm a fan of the current wording.
Not at all.
 
I get it.
 
I'm also considering a merge of these two:
4
Q: "Ending with" vs "ending in"

NikolaiIn one of my letters, I used the phrase "card number ending with 5612". It was pointed out by our analyst that this was a grammatical mistake, the correct phrase was "card number ending in". I was pretty much baffled. To demonstrate the phrase "ending with" is correct I offer the following examp...

3
Q: "end-with" or "end-in"?

MartinI'm writing up some documentation, and I'm unsure which phrase to use: Option X: Find all strings ending with foo. or Option X: Find all strings ending in foo. Are both correct? (Google spits out both, strongly favoring with) Which should I prefer?

 
@Robusto, could you sum up or cut'n paste your own answer in some way or should I wait another six months to get to read it ;-)
 
"Perhaps you mean the Yiddish term shtuk:

in shtuk/shtook/stook/schtuk in trouble. A very widespread expression which moved from a restricted demi-monde and theatrical usage to common currency in the mid-1960s, partly through its use in the entertainment media. Shtuk in its various spellings is Yiddish for difficulties. ‘In shtuk’ often refers to financial difficulties."
It's the same quote as in your answer, @Alain.
 
12:05 PM
Ah right, no new "dot" I'm afraid then.
 
Yeah, sorry. Robusto disappoints again. :P
 
That was bashing.
 
Natürlich.
 
@AlainPannetier No, that was tcshing. :P
 
You mean tcshing.
 
12:08 PM
tcsh?
 
An Xterm can still be running bash.
 
Another shell
 
@RegDwight yeah I know
 
tcsh ( , , or as an acronym, ) is a Unix shell based on and compatible with the C shell (csh). It is essentially the C shell with programmable command line completion, command-line editing, and a few other features. History The 't' in tcsh comes from the T in TENEX, an operating system which inspired Ken Greer at Carnegie Mellon University, the author of tcsh, with its command-completion feature. Ken Greer began working on his code to implement Tenex-style file name completion in September 1975, finally merging it into the C shell in December 1981. Mike Ellis at Fairchild A.I. Labs a...
 
I love screen+irssi. Anyone else here using them?
 
12:10 PM
@AlainPannetier — I'll undelete it if you want. It seems germane to the discussion anyway.
 
I leave it to you. I've deleted many of my posts. That was my own decision.
 
Mar 1 at 14:07, by RegDwight
::For other uses see | Section2 = | Section3 = | Section7 = | Section8 = }} Germane is the chemical compound with the formula GeH4, and the germanium analogue of methane. It is the simplest germanium hydride and one of the most useful compounds of germanium. Like the related compounds silane and methane, germane is tetrahedral. It burns in air to produce GeO2 and water. Occurrence Germane has been detected in the atmosphere of Jupiter. Synthesis Many methods are known for the industrial manufacture of germane. These processes can be categorized as (a) chemical reduction method, (b) ...
 
OK, undeleted.
 
@RegDwight — I knew you were going to do that.
 
12:13 PM
I knew you knew I was going to do that.
 
@RegDwight, now we'll have to check if the Spanish entry in Wikipedia is "Hermane" !
 
Mar 1 at 14:06, by RegDwight
Jermaine La Jaune Jackson (born December 11, 1954) is an American singer, bassist, composer, a member of The Jackson 5, older brother of American pop stars Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson and occasional film director. He also produced and recorded duets with American singer Whitney Houston in her early years as a recording artist. Biography Early life Jackson is the fourth child of Joseph and Katherine Jackson, born in Gary, Indiana after his brother Tito Jackson. His brothers and sisters are Rebbie, Jackie, Tito, Marlon, La Toya, Michael, Randy and Janet. He was raised as a Jehovah'...
@AlainPannetier Jermaine does have a few hermanos.
 
Just when you think @RegDwight has reached the bottom of the barrel, you lift up the barrel and there's another one of his supererogatory Wikipedia citations.
 
Mar 24 at 1:30, by Martha
The charts below show the way in which the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) represents Hungarian language pronunciations in Wikipedia articles. See Hungarian phonology for a more thorough look at the sounds of Hungarian. {| style="background: none" |----- | valign="top" | {| class="wikitable" ! !! Examples !! English approximation |- ! colspan=3| Consonants |- |align="center"| | bot, képzés | boat |- |align="center"| | tyúk, ágytól, látja, átnyúlik | Tuesday |- |align="center"| | dob, hétből | duck |- |align="center"| | dzéta, ketrecben | lads |- |align="center"| | dzsessz, ácsbó...
 
"La Jaune" ? Wow. First time, I see that.
Kartoffelsuppe Zeit. Bald zurück !
 
12:20 PM
Mahlzeit!
 
12:32 PM
0
Q: Which words may start with "al-"?

UrbycozIs there a rule which determines whether it allowable for a word to be "merged" with "all" to make a new word starting "al-" e.g. 1)All together -> Altogether 2)All right -> Alright The first is generally accepted. Whereas I believe the second is technically not (certainly my English ...

Object, your Honor. Asked and answered.
 
Well the part about alright is clearly a dupe.
But the part about "is there a rule" isn't...
It's kinda more general.
I have no idea if he's actually just asking about this one word.
Hey @MrHen, I can see you.
 
@RegDwight Hey, I am busy
Answering things
 
Yes, I'm just pinging you to ask you if you're ready to get merged.
42 mins ago, by RegDwight
I'm also considering a merge of these two:
Object now or remain silent forever.
 
1:06 PM
Back
What now?
 
0
A: A word that describes pulling a fish out of water?

Mr. DisappointmentIf you're referring to the phrase 'like a fish out of water' then you might find use of dishabituated works well enough: To render unaccustomed.

I would hazard a guess and say this isn't tagged correctly.
Or at least there might be some existing tags that could be attached to it.
 
@MrDisappointment I swapped that one out for
 
Makes sense.
 
@RegDwight What am I objecting to?
 
1:21 PM
@MrHen Ze merge.
 
@RegDwight Merge? It seems like you assume I know what you are talking about.
 
I'm about to merge an answer of yours into an older question.
@MrHen Hence the link.
36 mins ago, by RegDwight
42 mins ago, by RegDwight
I'm also considering a merge of these two:
Zis is ze internet. You can click on stuff.)))
I didn't want to pollute the chat.
 
@RegDwight Your link just went to my chat comment. :(
Yeah, go for it. Doesn't bother me
 
42 mins ago <---- that link I mean.
@MrHen Kthx.
 
Ah, I see
I like the original question wording better
Less rantish
0
Q: parallel fan-in

osgxHello What means a "parallel fan-in"? Context: A parallel reduction performs this operation in parallel, typically by performing a parallel fan-in, under the assumption that the entries can be generated and reduced in any order Field: parallel computing Thanks

See, this is the technical stuff I was talking about
@Reg, I sent you another flag. :)
 
1:31 PM
yeah, i voted that off-topic
 
Also, is there a way to "update" a previous flag? I should have put a better description in one of them. :P
@JSBangs Did you see that tag I linked you earlier?
 
i saw i had a chat message waiting, but i didn't see the link
care to resend?
 
@JSBangs After all the work you did killing those two tags, they merged and rebirthed:
 
@MrHen To my knowledge, once a flag is waved, there's no turning back.
 
@MrDisappointment That's what I thought; I figured I'd ask anyway :)
 
1:35 PM
@MrHen oh yeah, i saw that. as i said at the time, i don't see this as a problem, so long as it doesn't become the #1 tag the way was
 
@JSBangs I must have missed your "at the time"
:)
I just saw it pop up and was a little humored.
 
plus is more specific than , and it eliminates a lot of the things that could have fallen under the old tag
 
@JSBangs Haha, true
 
Every question uses some words, thus every question can be tagged "word-usage".
Unless, of course, you ask a question in numbers.
 
0
Q: parallel fan-in

osgxHello What means a "parallel fan-in"? Context: A parallel reduction performs this operation in parallel, typically by performing a parallel fan-in, under the assumption that the entries can be generated and reduced in any order Field: parallel computing Thanks

 
1:37 PM
0111011011011011011110111100000111010111?
 
@Kosmonaut I have no idea where to migrate. I have asked in the Teachers' Lounge.
 
What means a "Teachers' Lounge"?
 
You're a teachers' lounge.
In the mean time, @Kosmo, what shall we do with this:
4
A: what on earth does "cheap at half the price" mean?

zizi'Cheap at half the price' has joined the list of English phrases that don't convey any useful literal meaning, but which are used in their entirety rather than by being reflected on word by word. Other examples that make little literal sense are 'put your best foot forward', 'head over heels' and...

 
Oh brother.
And it is tagged even? What is with this?
And semi-plagiarism?
And peeving?
 
I have left a somewhat helpless comment, but I'm considering simply nuking it.
I have nuked another answer of that kind earlier today.
But that one was easier.
It wasn't accepted, had no votes, and was duplicating an earlier answer.
 
1:48 PM
Oh my, I just followed the link to realise what exactly was copied. :/
 
@RegDwight Yeah, I really don't like it.
 
I actually was misled, in believing he had written the input that is the first paragraph.
 
@RegDwight Should the comment say "please edit or else it will have to be nuked from orbit"?
 
@MrHen: the speaker regards Ugandan English as slang and reports that they are taught British English at school. I was not able to fully explain the difference between prescriptivism and descriptivism to him. I don't think his claim and resort to “correct” English (atfer his seeing the Ngram statistics) should override his actual use of the of construction.
 
@Kosmonaut Feel free to add that, for additional pressure.
Also, a general note to everyone: we're only discussing this particular answer at all because at least it does have a reference link.
Obvious plagiarism without any attribution at all will be deleted on sight. This is a network-wide policy.
 
1:55 PM
Understood - given that they're fairly new to the network, too (from what I can gather), I don't think there's any ill-intent here.
 
@MrDisappointment I'm not implying there is.
The nature of their intent is completely orthogonal.
 
I gathered that.
 
BTW, @Kosmonaut, this made me recall this answer. I wasn't a mod back then, but my understanding is that now I have no other choice but delete it.
 
Why is it so difficult to explain the nature of linguistic description to someone!?
“Correct” English, my a**e.
 
@RegDwight Yes, I guess so, or edit it?
 
2:02 PM
@Kosmonaut He had half a year to edit it himself. As a mod, I must delete on sight.
 
@RegDwight Yeah, that's fine.
 
And I must say I'm not buying his excuse, either.
 
No, I didn't buy that either.
 
Because the answer copies two different answers from Yahoo, by different users.
The first sentence is from one, the rest from the other.
 
lol, you are right
 
2:04 PM
I'm here to be right.
 
He also didn't bother to correct the *** that was in Yahoo Answers, and it appears as a single star in the EL&U answer.
 
@Kosmonaut Yeah, that was literally the worst part!
@Vitaly That reminds me... gotta go fetch some coke.
 
And the answer is bad.
Actually, let me phrase it this way:
@RegDwight deletes the plagiarizing answer — and nothing of value was lost.
 
22 hours ago, by Vitaly
You always have to leave when I come here.
 
2:08 PM
@Vitaly That's because you always make me think of coke.
 
I don't get it. Do you find the version of the owl offensive, @RegDwight? If so, I am sorry.
 
On the contrary, I like it.
I just can't star every image you post.
I have to draw the line somewhere.
 
Well, I got the impression that you were cross with me or something.
 
Hey, that I find offensive.
:P
 
Glad to hear you weren't.
 
2:23 PM
@Vitaly: I got your message but didn't quite get the conclusion.
 
@MrHen: the conclusion is, his post doesn't add anything to the question, IMHO.
 
@Vitaly Ah, okay.
Yeah, I just added a note to my answer because that was the only real authority I had at the end
But I agree with you
My opinion is the same but less strong, in other words. :)
 
A friend of mine has loaned me a nice set of books about various English dialects. Now I feel like populating the site with and and , except that those would be NARQs. :|
Singapore English:
> Ho and Platt (1993: 31) give the example 'I damn naughty', and they report that be actually gets omitted in about 13 per cent of potential cases.
 
Do we have ? That's when things really go downhill...
Not sure how to format tags in here, let's experiment..
 
[tag:blah-blah]
 
2:38 PM
@Vitaly Thanks, don't think the FAQ explains this.
 
There is a difference between Chinese English and Singaporean English.
One is non-native, and one is native.
 
It's an important distinction.
 
I never said they were the same.
In fact, I'm not even sure you're talking to me ...?
 
Can't I just make the point?
 
2:40 PM
:D
 
Sure thing, but this is the internet, nobody likes to think the finger is pointed at them. ;)
 
This is the Internet, where it's not all about you! :P
 
What?! Seriously? Damn, man, and there I thought I'd found my place in the world.
I'm sure there is some pattern to this, but at the moment it just seems random: the 'share' dialog pops up when opening a question, or up voting it.
Maybe it occurs on questions when you view them for the first time.
 
I don't know the mechanics either, but I notice that it pops more often if you open the same question to check for updates.
 
HaL
@MrHen A matter of seconds. That's absolutely nuts.
 
2:45 PM
Pretty intrusive, IMO; if I want to share then I'll click the freakin' link to do so.
 
1
A: Make "Will have been going to go" correct

KathiI'm applying for a job in Australia and there is this one question asking for my my highest education achievements. As I'm currently still going to school but will be finished in july 2011, my answer is the following: I'm graduating this summer at __ Gymnasium, achieving my Abitur (German univer...

How did that get upvoted? It doesn't answer the question at all.
Am I missing something?
 
@Vitaly It's beyond me, there are some ridiculous posts all over SE that get at least one up vote.
 
Well, they used "will have been going to school"
It was an attempt to use the right phrase
But missing the "going to go" part.
 
That's granted, but the surrounding data is pretty much noise.
 
Yes, it is extremely roundabout, even if it were correct.
Maybe the person wanted to brag about graduating too.
 
2:53 PM
Haha.
 
Heh. I'm tempted to down vote.
 
Well, it's not crazy to downvote, since it really doesn't answer the question.
 
Maybe a little harsh though, considering their newness your comment providing opportunity for her to improve - I'll hold out for five.
 
@HaL See my and Kelly's timestamps here:
3
Q: How is "e.g." pluralized?

Lord TorgamusHow is "e.g." pluralized? Usually I just see "e.g." used regardless of the number of examples given, but I don't know if that's correct or merely a product of widespread ignorance. More rarely, I've seen "ee.g." and "e.e.g." but I haven't been able to verify that either of those is right.

 
Apr 8 at 8:51, by RegDwight
@Martha Not to rain on your parade, but Kelly's answer was there first. Check the IDs. (You still got a +1 from me as per Lord Torgamus' comment. God, I am so nice...)
 
2:54 PM
@RegDwight Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just love bringing the rain.
 
Yeah, I'm aiming at your dinky umbrella.
 
Except I have acquired a non-dinky umbrella now. It's really pretty, with a black & white floral design, and more importantly, it opens and closes at the push of a button.
 
Apr 5 at 14:53, by Martha
It was not! It was black with white polka dots! It was a very pretty umbrella!
So the dots are flowers now?
Is it spring or something?
 
I still haven't a clue how I managed to lose the polka dotted umbrella, but I had to give in and acquire a new one for the trip.
My sister got an identical one, except hers is blue.
 
And of course there was not a single rain drop in Hungry.
 
2:58 PM
'Thanks for you Answer. You mean, the nuts refers to the man without brain? like the nut out of the fruit( refers to the mind of the man ). Am I right, or nut ? – A.C.Balaji 5 mins ago'
A comment in response to the answer provided by @MrHen, I must say I did laugh.
 
Actually, there was, in Kalocsa. We were changing the niece in the trunk of the car, for lack of any other flat available space, and it just started coming down. Umbrella came in handy.
 
@MrDisappointment It's amazing how popular the string "for you Answer" is on the Internet. With this exact spelling.
@Martha That would make it even more appropriate to rename it into Kalosha.
 
@RegDwight Figures. The last bit is most fun 'Am I right, or nut?'
 
Well, I think that must be on purpose.
 
Oh, it definitely is, given the question.
1
Q: How did the phrase "are you nuts" come about?

A.C.BalajiWhat is the connection between the "nut" and the character. How the word "are you nuts " is used at first?

 
3:03 PM
Character is a popular false friend.
 
Ick. That question really needs editing, though of course that'll lose the amusement value.
 
“Umbrella came in handy” ← is that the null article here?
 
It's the female gender.
Female nouns in English don't take articles, except on Tuesdays in leap years.
 
Do you remember any zero/null article questions on the site? (I have already searched, just making sure.)
 
I remember zillions in this chat.
On the main site, we had that thing about "to school", "to hospital", where Kosmonaut commented mentioning "on vacation" etc.
 
3:08 PM
@Vitaly The fact that umbrella has no article?
 
23
Q: Is there a reason the British omit the article when they "go to hospital"?

BillareWhy do British speakers omit the article in constructions like "go to hospital" or "go on holiday"? Pretty much all American speakers would rephrase those as "go to the hospital" and "go on a holiday", I think. Is there any good reason, or forgotten sense behind those words that might explain why...

 
That's just shorthand.
 
@Kosmonaut Oh. I thought it was the definite null article, as opposed to the indefinite zero article.
 
I would need an article there, unless I am writing shorthand.
 
This is how it starts.
It's a slippery slope.
 
3:10 PM
@RegDwight It's slippery slope?
Or the slippery slope, maybe?
 
Yes, it begins with your using no articles today, and ends with your waking up some day to realize that you're speaking Russian.
 
Well, native speakers keep correcting me when I pretend (for science) that I have “written” some sentence from an academic paper (academic papers are known for excessive usage of the definite null article). They add the definite the article whenever the author of the paper used the null one.
 
@RegDwight I shocked to hear that!
 
So its usage is rather vague to me.
 
@Vitaly You'll have to give me an example.
If you name something, then you would leave out the article.
"Umbrella" came in handy.
Where Umbrella is the name you have given some particular umbrella...
 
3:14 PM
Sounds like a cheap excuse in hindsight.
 
ok, first, a paper (I am still trying to find a good example): escholarship.org/uc/item/…
 
You could say "Use of an umbrella came in handy."
Or something like that.
 
I give up, I had a list of scientific writing examples of the null article by a linguist somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. I am not sure I could take an actual academic paper and find the null article there, since the concept is still vague to me.
 
I see what you are talking about now, though.
 
Good.
 
3:20 PM
I think it is really hard to pin down exactly when you can and can't do this, such that a non-native speaker could manage the rules for it.
I can say that your "umbrella" example doesn't work that way.
 
@Kosmonaut Well, I had native speakers correct other native speakers unwittingly, just because they thought it was the writing of a non-native speaker, i.e. me…
2
 
"Cover came in handy." I think that works too.
@Vitaly I can believe that. Often there is more than one option in such cases. And especially if the reader is unfamiliar with the field, they might object to a certain field-specific convention.
I think that in the case of "umbrella", it might be because "umbrella" is not an abstract concept?
Like, "cover" as an abstract concept; there is only one notion of "cover".
So it can be used in that way.
 
Master says the null form of the article is the most definite form, and since they were talking about a well-known umbrella, they could have omitted the article altogether; or at least it's how I understand Master's paper
 
But for "umbrella", I think you would have to pluralize it.
"Umbrellas come in handy." "Cover comes in handy."
 
in “Umbrellas come in handy” it's certainly the zero article, not the null one
I think
 
3:27 PM
I don't know. Actually, that depends on your theory of how it works.
I might argue that "I like apples" and "I like government" are the same type of thing, in terms of the null article.
 
Apparently, that's not a question for the main site then. Too few people would actually understand the distinction between the zero and null forms, if there's any.
 
It's probably a question for lingustics.SE, if that goes live.
I am guessing you will just have people on EL&U suggesting other ways to phrase the sentence to get what you mean.
 
Lol. Right.
 
It is interesting though.
I am not sure that all the Ø2 examples really seem like they are more definite than "the"
"After the dinner" seems more definite than "after dinner".
"She was hired as the special assistant..." also seems more definite.
 
here is something that might be relevant: books.google.com/books?id=2LDLbSOxfIoC (search for null inside, or null form)
p. 83, in particular
 
3:39 PM
Interesting.
Coincidentally, the point about Buckingham Palace vs the Mariinsky Palace reminds me of those school names.
Man, this is fascinating, I can't stop reading.
 
Oh man. I feel bad deleting/converting stuff within a minute of its having been posted.
 
I flagged, but I left a comment hoping he'll elaborate.
 
The guy deserved it. After all, he distracted you from reading about the null form. I myself can't stop reading it. Argh.
 
@MrDisappointment I can't parse the last few words of your comment.)))
"isn't is of"
 
3:55 PM
@MrDisappointment Actually, this should just be a comment and not an answer, I think.
 
@RegDwight Ya, I was editing, should read OK now ...?
 
Ah yes.
Much better.
@Kosmonaut I think what we're collectively trying to do is to gently push a new user in the right direction.
On SO, it would have got killed because it's so huge nobody has the time.
 
Oh, it looks like we're trying to scare him off to me :)
 
@MrDisappointment, I just made a single character edit to your answer. Feel my power! :D
 
@Kosmonaut Haha.
Well, I don't think we would scare him off less by deleting his answer within a minute.
 
3:57 PM
@Martha Ouch! That was an amateur mistake I made also. Double ouch!
 
Those Hungarians with their absolute power.
 
Absolute power? Who? Where? What'd I miss?
 

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