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kiamlaluno
kiamlaluno
2:39 AM
19
Q: Apart from place names, are there any Native American words used in English?

nicholas ainsworthApart from place names, are there any Native American words used in English?

etymology vocabulary
Should not the question be a CW?
 
 
4 hours later…
brilliant
brilliant
6:11 AM
To me it's interesting: "Bin Laden has been killed" and "Bin Laden is killed" seem to be quite similar, while "Bin Laden is dead" and "Bin Laden has been dead" could be even probably contradicting to each other. Am I right?
 
 
3 hours later…
teylyn
teylyn
9:37 AM
I hate it when people can't spell. "Bin Laden had lost relevence: Fisk" tvnz.co.nz/world-news/bin-laden-had-lost-relevence-fisk-4151408
 
psmears
psmears
10:10 AM
@teylyn Heh, nice one. They've fixed it in the headline now, but it's still there in the URL :)
 
teylyn
teylyn
Kiwis. What can you say?!
 
 
1 hour later…
Billare
Billare
11:24 AM
This Bin Laden thing....does it sound weird to anyone that there have been no photographs produced of the guy dead and they "dumped his body" at sea?
What evidence did we have for him being alive in the first place, after 2001ish?
We had that "video"
And "reports" of him being alive...
 
teylyn
teylyn
I'm with "West Side Story" on this one ... "Could be ..... Whoooo knows ...."
 
Billare
Billare
They say they have DNA evidence, but that can be kept, can't it? Why wouldn't someone produce a video of the thing?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
11:57 AM
Greetings!
These things can never be known for certain. But in this case I think Obama and the army are reliable enough.
 
Robusto
Robusto
12:32 PM
Heya @Cerb. Where you been hiding your three little heads?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Hi!
In a tiny cottage in the woods, where there's no internet, telephone, or shower.
 
Robusto
Robusto
Sounds kinda perfect, actually.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Saturday was Queen's Day, which turns Amsterdam into a chaos of provincial drunkards.
So we fled.
 
Robusto
Robusto
It doesn't take much, does it?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
True, true.
 
Robusto
Robusto
12:34 PM
Off to get a bagel. AFK a min.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Well actually it is a chaos of British drunkards most of the time. But on Queen's Day it is so bad that a walk to the station takes hours instead of ten minutes. Just people, people everywhere.
Yay food! Bring me one, please.
 
Robusto
Robusto
12:48 PM
Back. I got you a dog biscuit. Only one. Your heads will have to fight it out.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
WROOOOF
CHOMP
Thank you.
 
Robusto
Robusto
np.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
So I came by this longish discussion between Brilliant and others.
It was a bit too long to read. Anything interesting emerge from the wreckage?
 
Robusto
Robusto
Sorry, I didn't read it. I find other people's conversations boring.
Especially when they're about the fine points of linguistic theory, etc.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Oh. I was going to say jinx until your second line.
Hey, a question:
> I'd like to go there some time.
Would you spell sometime as one word?
 
Robusto
Robusto
12:56 PM
Remember Ambrose Bierce's definition: bore someone who talks when you wish him to listen.
@Cerberus — Abso-frickin-lutely
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
OK thanks. I suppose I usually hear the word rather than read or write it. But I will write it as one from now on.
 
Robusto
Robusto
"Do you have some time to talk with me?"
"Not right now. We'll have to talk sometime tomorrow."
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Robusto Oh! That definition slipped my mind... but how do you bore someone who's talking? Many people just keep talking and talking, apparently without the need to receive any input back...
 
Robusto
Robusto
The definition is ironic. Think about it. It's in essence saying that you wish someone would shut up so you could be the one boring people with your monologue.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
@RegDwight well, i still think that word-usage is a good sight better than usage, since at least it excludes thinks like grammar, politeness, etc. which are theoretically covered by usage. i'll be worried if it starts making its way to the top of the tag list, though
(sorry, catching up on chat backlog)
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
1:01 PM
@Robusto Oh! Jesus, now I get it: I was reading bore as part of the definition, instead of the word to be defined. I was reading it as "you should bore someone who talks...".
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Cerberus: See? That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. I personally don't give a rat's ass how things are tagged. I respect those who do, but that's just not how I'm built.
Let me restate it:
"bore: someone who talks when you wish him to listen" — Ambrose Bierce, *The Devil's Dictionary*
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
I sort of feel the same about tags personally; but that's just because I don't happen to use them. In theory I am all for bringing order to tag chaos.
 
Robusto
Robusto
I'm also fine with bringing order to chaos. I just don't want to do it myself or hear about it.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
@RegDwight i also left a comment on the meta post you linked... i'm in favor of the first suggestion but not the second. however, the meta problem with the meta post is that the specific suggestions should be in their own questions, rather than a single overly-broad question
@Robusto that's what i'm here for (evidently)
anyhoo, i'm pretty happy with the current tag situation
some amount of tag chaos is inevitable, even desirable. tags are supposed to be an open-ended, user-driven system, after all, not a rigid set of categories
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Rob: I have nothing against hearing about it or providing some minor input on the subject; but I don't feel emotionally involved enough to really participate in the discussion. But, hey, it has given us a topic for discussion, as evidenced by this very line...
Greetings @Rafael.
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
1:09 PM
Hello @Cerberus.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
If you want to discuss tags, JSBangs is your man; if linguistics, I, though JSBangs is the expert of linguistics, if only he could be torn away from his tag business; and Robusto is there for everything else, including cooking.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
@Cerberus are you currently in school for linguistics?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@JSB: No. I study the classics, philosophy, and history. Linguistics is parts of classics.
Are you?
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
Getting to know the people from the community is quite nice, thank you. Let me introduce myself: I study linguistics and have a couple of hobbies, including Linux, LaTeX and cooking, too. Specially after the publishing of Cooking for geeks .
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
i was years ago. i graduated with my bs in linguistics in '04. alas, i haven't worked in the field since then
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
1:20 PM
@Rafael: Welcome! Long live linguistics!
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
@Cerberus i took a minor in classical greek. it was great, and i wish i could do more with it
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@Cerberus: yeah!
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@JSB: I like your "bs in linguistics"... yeah I can imagine it's not easy finding a job in the field.
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
Google may be looking for linguists…
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
I hereby declare classical Greek a valid on-topic subject for this room!
Oh, really?
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
1:21 PM
my failure to work in linguistics is somewhat by choice. i work as a programmer now, and i like it quite a bit, so i'm not very motivated to change
@RafaelBeraldo last time i checked, google doesn't allow people to work remotely, though. i live far from any googleplexes, and i'm not willing to relocate
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@Cerberus: I'm not sure, but they might need people to work on computational linguistics and stuff. Like semantic web and automatic translation.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Ah I see. Programming and linguistics are somewhat related, in the faculties of they brain they require.
@Raf: Interesting... you planning to work at Google?
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@Cerberus: not really, but it would be nice. I'm thinking about becoming a college professor.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Kos is doing a PhD in linguistics, I believe. At least morphology and phonology, I think.
@Raf: Hah OK, well I'm not sure how easy it is to become a full professor; doesn't that take decades? It does here in Holland.
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
Here in Brazil, we have professors that are like 30~35 years old. You usually must have a PhD and pass an exam, when they are looking for professors.
So, yes, it may take a decade and a half or maybe two decades.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
1:27 PM
i have a close friend who will very shortly be getting his PhD in linguistics from cambridge. he already had his dissertation accepted, and now it's just paperwork, pretty much
 
Robusto
Robusto
In a field like linguistics, in America at least, you had better have a stellar dissertation and publish lots of other work in important journals if you want to have a chance at tenure and full professorship.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Raf: Wow that sounds good. I wish we had that here! Our professor of Latin literature turned 65 a few years ago, and they won't hire a new one because it is too expensive. Now we have only one professor left in the classics, of Greek literature.
Oh I have to go, birthday shopping. Later, all!
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
@Rafael, echoing what @Cerb said, it sounds like the market for people with doctorates is way better in Brazil than here in the states
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@JSBangs, yes, that's true. That's because a lot of people go to university when they could have attended to institutes of technology and the like.
Only, there are not as many institutes of technology as we need.
Oh, I think I misinterpreted your sentence… Yes, it is way easier to get a job if you have a doctorate. And that is due to a lack of understanding is for: research. So, lots of people do research just to get their doctorates, when they could have spent those years studying more general things that have to do with what they want to work with.
 
psmears
psmears
@Cerberus I usually write "some time", partly because sometime can have a different meaning. I suspect it's a slight UK-US thing: searching the British National Corpus shows "some time" is dominant, but not by much, and both are common...
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
1:41 PM
@Robusto, in Brazil, once you're a professor in a good university, you have to publish often. Usually it's about quantity and no quality, though.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Psm: Ah! Yes, perhaps that's what was rumbling in the back of my head. If you write it with a space and Rob without, that makes both variants acceptable for me. Pfew.
 
psmears
psmears
@Cerberus Yes, both are common, so I definitely wouldn't lose sleep over which variant you use :)
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
2:01 PM
@Kosmonaut Cooking.SE is now stealing our bestest questions.
3
Q: How to eat sunny-side-up eggs on a sandwich?

Tim NordenfurWhenever I try to eat an egg sunny side up on a sandwich, I end up with egg all over my sandwich hand as soon as I get to the yolk. Is there a technique that prevents this, or are sunny-side-up sandwiches just not compatible with clean hands?

eggs sandwich
 
Robusto
Robusto
@RafaelBeraldo — That's true in the U.S. too, and it's part of what's wrong with higher education. Publish or perish doesn't leave a lot of time for actual teaching.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
@RegDwight Awesome
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
In other news:
5
Q: Separate vote pools for questions and answers

wafflesIn the recent podcast Jeff and Joel talked about the idea of having separate vote pools for questions and answers. So, for example you would have 10 question votes a day and 30 answer votes. A quick analysis of 10 days of recent data at Stack Overflow shows that we are seeing that about 23% of t...

feature-request voting
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
Interesting
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@Robusto: I agree. At the same time, however, not publishing would be an issue.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
2:10 PM
And finally, just why am I not surprised:
-1
Q: Is Osama bin Laden dead?

user2220Is there any evidence for his death? Why hunt a man for 10 years, once you find him dispose of the body completely within an hour, doesnt make sense. This is obviously part of the 9/11 conspiration. Is there any proof of death?

united-states 9-11
 
Robusto
Robusto
@RegDwight — Was just talking about the same thing with a co-worker. This is the tack Fox "News" is going to take.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
"Fox News: because no one else can pull this shit off!"
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
it's the perfect question for skeptics.se, though
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
But look at the wording.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
Yes
The wording is the fun part.
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
2:24 PM
The guy was quick to say that it is “_obviously_ part of the 9/11 conspiration”. Well, isn't it more likely that he is dead after all than there is a conspiracy?
 
Robusto
Robusto
At least they can't make fun of the "Single Bullet Theory" on this one. Looks like he took a couple good ones to the dome.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
to be perfectly honest, i am a little skeptical about the bin laden death thing. photos or it didn't happen, yanno
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@Robusto Do u have any evidance of taht?
 
Robusto
Robusto
@RegDwight — You're supposed to make that kind of objection with the caps-lock key down.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
"Looks like" is just loser talk for "apparently".
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
2:27 PM
@JSBangs I am going back and forth about how much it even matters if it is true or not.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
I guess we'll see soon enough.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
The first news I heard about was regarding heightened threat levels around the world.
So, with success comes the need to ramp up our war on terror?
How exactly do we get out of this one? :)
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@Kosmonaut, maybe you don't. It seems to be profitable.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
@RafaelBeraldo That's why I'm not dancing in the streets. Well, that and I don't find anyone's death a cause for unbridled joy.
5
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
Are there people in the streets because of that?
 
Robusto
Robusto
2:31 PM
@JSBangs — They have photos. But "pix or it didn't happen" is so, like, 2005. Photoshop rendered it useless with the release of CS5.
@Kosmonaut — Word.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
In Germany, that newly designated Secretary of State (Hans-Peter Nobody von Unknown, if memory serves me right), just told everyone that the threat level for Germany "remains very high". And I didn't even know there was a threat level to begin with.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
@Robusto After seeing what they did with Tron Legacy, I am expecting Fox News to have footage of a young Ronald Reagan killing Bin Laden with his bare hands.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@RafaelBeraldo Yes. In fact, there's more evidence of people in the streets celebrating the death than of the death itself.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
@Robusto i haven't seen them, so i retain my skepticism. (my bar of evidence is pretty low, though.)
@Kosmonaut i would watch that
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
Actually, I would too.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
2:35 PM
@Kosmonaut I have starred this. I agree in all respects.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@Kosmonaut And that's how America works.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
@RegDwight I think I just got Eurowned.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
It is still some sort of symbol of justice that he finally got killed. That's basically all there is to it.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
"Fox News: counting on Kosmonauts and JSBangers since 1892."
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Though perhaps his laptop might, indeed, be interesting.
 
Robusto
Robusto
2:36 PM
@RegDwight — At least we got rid of the color-coding Terrorist Threat Level here in the U.S. You can get up in the morning and not have to wonder "Will a yellow T-shirt go with the Terrorist Threat Level today?"
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
@Cerberus I do agree. But I only even care about that to the extent that it leads to some kind of peace.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@Robusto But the colors were the only fun thing about the terror!
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Yeah I agree.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Kosmonaut — Golden-showered?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Well I have to go. Bye! Happy dancing around!
@America
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
2:38 PM
@Robusto No. No, ah...... no. Huh?
Oh I get it now.
Maybe.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Kosmonaut — Eurowned sounds vaguely like something else.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
EL&U Chat: We can get from Osama Bin Laden to taboo sexual acts in 3 moves.
 
Robusto
Robusto
EZ-sauce.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
Hello all !
 
Robusto
Robusto
We don't need even three. Typically we can get to taboo sexual acts in one move. I wonder what took us so long today.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
2:52 PM
just catching up.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
Hi @Alain.
I still don't understand the taboo part.
I mean, even your poor parody of a country can't be that backwards.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
Upgrade to a pro today, Kosmonaut.
You're still too much of a rookie.
 
Robusto
Robusto
I can't imagine why I would ever want "pro" photobucket.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
Upgrade to Anti today!
 
Robusto
Robusto
2:56 PM
That's a reverse upgrade.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
Nah, forget pro. I'm already a big pro.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@Robusto Yeah, kind of what vgv8 was asking for.
@Kosmonaut Yes, you're a big empty category.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@RegDwight — Not really taboo. Just kinda gross.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
@Robusto I think you could regard it as at least a LITTLE bit taboo.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
i wasn't paying attention above and now i'm not sure what sex act you're talking about... and i'm pretty sure i don't want to know
 
Robusto
Robusto
3:02 PM
@Kosmonaut — Well, I'm sure some people classify it that way. Others classify it as strange, perverted, distasteful, unusual, and a host of other things. Still others probably think it's the bomb.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
@Robusto Even the people who think it's the bomb know not to talk about it at dinner :)
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@JSBangs We can always spell it out. This is a site where people are exceptionally good at spelling.
 
Robusto
Robusto
Well, the things you don't talk about at dinner are legion.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@Kosmonaut Depends on the dinner.
La Grande Bouffe
La Grande Bouffe (Italian: La grande abbuffata, English: The Grande Bouffe and Blow-Out) is a 1973 French–Italian film directed by Marco Ferreri. It stars Marcello Mastroianni, Ugo Tognazzi, Michel Piccoli and Philippe Noiret. The film tells the story of four friends who gather in a villa for the weekend for the express purpose of eating themselves to death. Bouffer is French slang for "eating" but with the added nuance of stuffing oneself... (the Italian abbuffata means "great eating"). Marco Ferreri won the FIPRESCI Prize given by the International Federation of Film Critics at the 1973...
 
Robusto
Robusto
So "opera bouffa" is the reason so many sopranos are so fat?
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
3:06 PM
bouffer = fressen. Anything in English ?
 
Robusto
Robusto
Pig out.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
Good one !
 
Robusto
Robusto
I wonder where we got the "out" construction from. "Pig out", "geek out", "chill out" and so on.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
@Rob that's a good question
 
Robusto
Robusto
It's so natural I never even bothered to think about it.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
3:08 PM
now i'm wondering myself. is "out" contributing anything much semantically, or is it pure idiom?
 
Mr. Disappointment
Mr. Disappointment
Hi, guys
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
I think the out is a little bit like "out of order", extraordinary
 
Robusto
Robusto
Maybe I'll ask it on the site.
Or is it really a linguistics question?
 
Billare
Billare
Where did this sense of "own" come from: "Whoo! I just owned that walkway. I was so nervous."
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
@Robusto no, ask on the site. it's clearly an english question
 
Billare
Billare
3:09 PM
"I really need to own that test."
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
10
Q: How did the slang meaning of "owned" come to be?

Chris DwyerWhy does Dude! I just owned you! mean that the speaker did really well against "Dude" in some sort of competition or game?

slang
 
Billare
Billare
It's not the regular sense of "defeat"/"embarass", is it.
No, that's not the sense.
It's specifically not that sense.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
that's what it seems like to me. why do you say it's not that sense?
"defeat" seems to be the primary meaning of both of the examples you gave
 
Billare
Billare
No, I don't think "defeat" is the right word. It's more "possess".
Like, I really had a handle on that test.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
possess, master, dominate
 
Billare
Billare
3:11 PM
And the defeat sense of "ownage" I know is very well attested in hacker/computer culture.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
well, the "defeat" sense of own is derived from the "possess" sense, so it makes sense that there are other usages on the spectrum between them
 
Billare
Billare
But I've heard models/regular people use "own" in this "possess" sense, how does obscure technical lingo pass between different subcultures like tha?
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
i wouldn't call this a distinct meaning, just something that's sitting comfortably on the spectrum between two established poles of the semantic continuum that to own covers
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
@Robusto I'm not sure that "chill out" is quite the same as the others.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
own=defeat is pretty mainstream now
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
3:13 PM
Besides, possess is actually closer to the original meaning.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
Eurowned is pretty taboo still though.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
I see your game now. You see Martha, you recycle some old jokes.
Eurowned is so 16:36.
 
Billare
Billare
I suppose it is close to the original sense of own...I was wondering where it started being extended to things you didn't literally own, and acquired an emphatic character of its own.
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
ops
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@RafaelBeraldo Aha, a niece helping?
Mar 13 at 16:31, by Martha
t te
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
3:18 PM
@Billare, I don't know when it started but interestingly in Portuguese people created the verb “ownar”, ”to own”.
In the sense of defeat.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
@Robusto OED has this:
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@RafaelBeraldo Not enough zh's.
 
Billare
Billare
@Rafael Beraldo Interesting! Is it slang, or acceptable in more formal registers?
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
First citation 1971 apparently.
Interestingly I have never heard of "splash out".
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@Billare, just a slang, and a very specific one. Just people that play MMORPGs use that.
 
Billare
Billare
3:19 PM
@Kosmonaut Do you know who that J. Churchill in the citation was?
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@RegDwight, zh? What's that?
 
Billare
Billare
@Alain BTW, Alain, thanks for you lovely answer.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
@RafaelBeraldo The most popular sound in Portuguese?
 
Billare
Billare
@Alain BTW, I did a little research on my own...I'll probably add an answer myself in a day or two.
 
Kosmonaut
Kosmonaut
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
3:21 PM
I know @Robusto had more or less summed it up, but that's the kind of question I can't resist.
@Billare If you would like to read some of the sources I cite, drop me an email (see my profile, bottom for the address).
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@RegDwight is it?
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
Yes, though sh is a close second.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@AlainPannetier — What question are we talking about?
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
@Billare, that could help your research. Although it was clear from your question that you already had had a go at it.
@Robusto the one about the H-dropping
 
Martha
Martha
This one, I'm guessing:
2
A: Is the history of h-dropping in English in any way related to the silent h of French?

Alain PannetierThe question of H-dropping in English is a frequently revisited one and the succession of theories put forward could be a topic in its own right. Without going too far back in time one of the most authoritative source on the subject is James Milroy who, in a paper title "On the sociolinguistic h...

 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
3:24 PM
@Martha, correct.
 
Billare
Billare
@Alain Apparently, h-dropping came to be stigmatized because of dictionaries and etymologies. When the Enlightenment came about, and spelling was thoroughly standardized, they realized they were dropping hs of things that were properly spelled with Hs in the Old and Middle English. So the "educated" came to stigmatize h-dropping; it was the beginning of when people started thinking that words should really be pronounced as they were spelt.
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@RegDwight you mean like ʒ and ʃ?
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
Yup.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
@Billare, same thing in French actually. The Académie was fighting it
To no avail of course
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
Through a series of highly scientific experiments, I was able to determine that in Portuguese, every letter of every word is pronounced as either /ʒ/ or /ʃ/, except for the letter a in some rare cases.
2
 
Billare
Billare
3:26 PM
@Alain I read a study where the analyzed a corpus of Middle English for "a" and "an" to see if they dropped *h*s in Middle English...apparently Chaucer was doing it.
@Alain One source shows that the limited reach of the Normans into the northernmost territories probably explains why /h/ dropping never reached Yorkshire.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
@Billare, same thing in French. To determine if a h is mute or "aspiré", a native speaker tries the "liaison".
@I've got a nice map of the "h-dropping" somewhere. in England I mean
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@RegDwight, this is gonna rock the world of Portuguese language teachers, I’m sure lol
@RegDwight all I know about [ʃ] is that [tʃ] is a variation to [t] in front of /i/ where I live.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
I'm considering writing a book about it. Draft title: "Portuguese como ella esta hablando".
 
Billare
Billare
@Alain Ah, right. Wikipedia has a map but I'm not sure I like it; all of SE england is covered in dropped hs, but I also think that's where it's mostly highly stigmatized.
@Alain In the London bits.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
@Billare look here.
 
Robusto
Robusto
3:33 PM
@AlainPannetier — No problem. Yours is a more thorough explanation anyway.
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@RegDwight do write it!
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
@Robusto, just took me much more time ;-)
 
Billare
Billare
@Alain Thanks, Alain.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
@Billare, no problem. And remember, my email. As my favorite cartoon characters say
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Koala_Brothers
The Koala Brothers
The Koala Brothers is an animated children's television show that features the adventures of two brothers, Frank and Buster, as they seek to help their neighbors in a sleepy town in the Australian Outback. A notable quality of the series is that although there can be differences of opinion and occasional instances of antisocial or thoughtless behaviour, there are no villains or disagreeable characters. Rather, the emphasis is on helping and being a good friend. In most English speaking countries the show is narrated by Jonathan Coleman. Format Broadcast episode formats vary slightly bet...
We're here to help.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
I am not. Speak for yourself.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
3:44 PM
1 hour ago, by JSBangs
to be perfectly honest, i am a little skeptical about the bin laden death thing. photos or it didn't happen, yanno
Look here
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
A photo of Twitter's "Follow" button proves nothing, @Alain. No matter how much you zoom in and enhance.
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
The intersting thing is how tech can be used both ways.
14 mins ago, by Billare
@Alain http://rua.ua.es/dspace/bitstream/10045/6374/1/RAEI_20_08.pdf
that link seems to be offline for now. I'll try later.
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
4:00 PM
I just found the unabridged, original version of English as she is spoke to buy!
 
Alain Pannetier
Alain Pannetier
22 mins ago, by RegDwight
I am not. Speak for yourself.
that's how each episode ends.
They say "we're here to help".
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
4:32 PM
See, @Vitaly, this is why it is important that you keep asking questions.
1
Q: Like to vs like + ing

Juanillo Possible Duplicate: “I like to do (be) something” vs “I like doing (being) something” Hello, Is there any difference of meaning between these sentences? I like to get up early I like getting up early Thanks UPDATE One teacher of mine suggested in his class that one of them (I ca...

meaning infinitive ing
 
Billare
Billare
all the bin laden celebrating seems a bit gauche...
reminds me of what allegedly happened when princess diana died
and i'm usually a hawk on these things
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
i am blissfully unaware of any bin laden death celebrations
i haven't seen anything here where i live, and i avoid watching the news
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@JSBangs, previously they were talking about the Wedding, now they're probably talking about the Death. Next!
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
That's what I was thinking. Obama just got sick and tired of the Royal Wedding coverage all over the place.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
4:39 PM
@RafaelBeraldo well, if we can get a celebrity baby born sometime in the next days, we'll have completed the entire Circle of Media Life (albeit in the wrong order)
 
Rafael Beraldo
Rafael Beraldo
@JSBangs, unless someone returns from Death, in which case we'd have Zombie news (and order would not be an issue).
 
Billare
Billare
@JSBangs News of the celebrations were on the online version of the NYT. You do read the news, don't you? ;)
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
@Billare i live in a news-free bubble. i only hear about news when people mention it to me in chat.
seriously, i read about bin laden on facebook
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
4:54 PM
I first heard about the Royal Wedding when Billare asked what those funny hats were called.
But hey, I still caught the kiss and the RAF part.
 
Billare
Billare
How can Martin Beckett/mgb purport to give English Language advice and not once submit a post with proper punctuation?
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
i found it impossible to not hear about the wedding, but the only thing i actually watched, as in on a television, was the exit from the church and the kiss ~15 min later
 
Billare
Billare
Or spelling, for that matter.
 
Robusto
Robusto
5:38 PM
@RegDwight — Yeah. Nice to have a smart POTUS for a change.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
Hurry up, this smartness won't last!
This change will not stand!
 
 
1 hour later…
Robusto
Robusto
6:51 PM
Meanwhile Rick James takes her nude
And there's nothing I can do
 
kzh
kzh
I have a question about attribution of a quote... is it acceptable to ask here?
... or in writers.SE?
 
F'x
F'x
@kzh if you care to share the basics of the question, we can guide you
 
kzh
kzh
I want to know who said "one can tell the morals of a culture by the way they treat their dead". It is often attributed to Ben Franklin, but I cannot find any references.
 
F'x
F'x
OK, it's a specific quote
 
kzh
kzh
I don't really think it would be in the scope of the charter of this SE, but I wanted a second opinion.
 
F'x
F'x
7:03 PM
I'd say not here, but Writers doesn't seem like a good fit either
 
kzh
kzh
Yahoo! Answers it is!
j/k, I would feel dirty.
Damn.
Then, by any chance, do YOU know?
 
F'x
F'x
no, I don't know
 
kzh
kzh
Thanks.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
I only know that quote with animals.
And a similar quote about books.
 
kzh
kzh
I seriously doubt it was Franklin. I wish I was so awesome I got credit for stuff I never did or said.
2
 
F'x
F'x
7:07 PM
 
kzh
kzh
Yeah, I already checked there. Thanks.
 
F'x
F'x
no, I meant about the lamb and the wolves
where it's listed as an oft-misattributed quote
 
kzh
kzh
I would add my quote there, but I have no proof that it is a mis-attribution, unless I read all his works.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
you could try searching for the exact quote text in Google Books
see if B. Franklin wrote any of them
 
kzh
kzh
In propositional logic, me not finding it is still not proof.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
7:13 PM
negative proof of this sort is inherently unproveable. this is an elementary result.
 
kzh
kzh
I wish wikimedia projects had a rep system.
 
Mr. Disappointment
Mr. Disappointment
Out of interest I just checked my Oxford Dictionary of Quotations; of the 21 given quotes of Benjamin Franklin, this isn't one of them.
The book is a little old, but certainly not older than we'd be expecting the quote to be. Not that this is definitive at all, either, ...just sayin'.
 
kzh
kzh
I added it to the Talk page. I am a good netizen.
 
MrHen
MrHen
Surprisingly, I couldn't find a Quotes or Quotations proposal
So I made one:
Odd. That didn't autolink...
1
Quotations

Proposed Q&A site for journalists and speakers who use sourced quotes that can be authoritatively referenced

Currently in definition.

Ah, there we go
 
kzh
kzh
7:31 PM
Can I put my example question as an example, or must it be general in nature?
 
MrHen
MrHen
@kzh Go for it. I think I added a general case there already, but if not feel free to add your own. :)
 
kzh
kzh
I just want it to be actually answered somewhere. :)
 
MrHen
MrHen
@kzh Haha, well area51 won't be the place to answer it. If the proposal goes through, then you can ask the more specific question. :)
So... that won't be for a while yet.
(If ever.)
Until you are stuck with the rest of the web :P
 
kzh
kzh
@MrHen I think I need to read the faqs about area51.
 
MrHen
MrHen
@kzh The basic gist: Area51 is where new StackExchange sites are created. Until they are created, all discussion and proposed questions are about the site itself. Once the site enters beta you can ask questions that are on-topic; until then you ask questions about what is or is not on-topic.
As in, "Should we ask these types of questions [once beta goes live]?"
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
7:44 PM
@MrHen There used to be one, but it died or got killed.
 
MrHen
MrHen
@RegDwight I couldn't find even a closed one. So... we shall see what happens with this one.
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
The closed ones are only visible to 10k users.
 
MrHen
MrHen
@RegDwight Ah, that would do it.
Although I do see [closed] markers...
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
 
MrHen
MrHen
@RegDwight Okay, that is "deleted"
So, different keyword
 
RegDwight
RegDwight
7:48 PM
Yeah, but probably due to lack of activity.
 
MrHen
MrHen
@RegDwight Very likely. I don't expect this to go anywhere but I was surprised one wasn't already there.
 
kzh
kzh
I made a discussion for the scope of writers.stackexchange.com to be expanded to include this. I don't know how that will work out, though.
 
JSBangs
JSBangs
i don't see how it could possibly be considered in-scope for writers.se
writers.se is for people who want to write things, not people who want to find out who already wrote something
 
kzh
kzh
8:11 PM
@JSBangs That would be something great to put on my proposal.
 
MrHen
MrHen
@kzh Okay, here. @Dori found the relevant place at wikiquotes:
 
kzh
kzh
I saw that, thanks.
 
 
1 hour later…
rberaldo
rberaldo
9:41 PM
Sometimes I just can't find the “add comment” button… I wonder if this is an issue with Chromium. I just downgraded from version 11 to 10 and this made no difference at all.
 
Mr. Disappointment
Mr. Disappointment
It's the ninja links that I find a nuisance.
 
Billare
Billare
10:27 PM
@RegDwight @Kosmonaut @nohat Should this question be closed? english.stackexchange.com/questions/5335/…
 
kiamlaluno
kiamlaluno
11:05 PM
3
Q: One who objectifies women

MaxpmIs there a single word or short phrase to describe someone who treats women like objects? Is there a similar word/phrase for who objectifies other people in general?

single-word-requests semantics
Isn't that a question for writers.SE? The user reports in a comment that is asking the question for a character: "I had considered misogynist, but the character in question does not hate women, per se; quite the opposite, in fact."
 

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