English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:39 AM

Thanks for the resource.

You're welcome.

I tried to do some manual checking on that before asking, BTW - but the friendly representation of age of posts didn't help so I gave up, rather easily I might add.

'I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!' funnyordie.com/videos/80a71ef8cb/more-cowbell

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=cowbell&room=95

Argh shucks, I missed the boat; anyway, funny stuff.

Absolutely!

Only funny stuff allowed here.

12:51 AM

Not sure music.SE would appreciate a question such as: 'How much cow bell is too much cow bell?'

But I'm itching to ask it.

I think they would appreciate it, but close it nonetheless.

Geez, three o'clock already.

Looks like I'll be calling it a day.

Hm, I've got an hour or so left - catch you tomorrow, maybe.

Sure.

Night all.

I'm out!

Spare Oom

Me too. Bye.

Bogdan Lataianu

2:54 AM

hi

Q: Amount of boxes vs number of boxes in non discrete graph

11:08 AM

Hey. Wake up.

0

Which version should I use to describe a graph where I show number of boxes that machine can service per minute. It is not discrete graph with value like 2, 3, 4 but it is continue value like 2.1, 2.3 etc (machine can service 2.3 boxes / per minute).

word-choice numbers amount

Voting to close as OT. I think it's really a math question (statistics).

12:11 PM

@Robusto I'm not sure... I see what you mean (and his question is unclear), but I basically think he's asking "should I use amount or number when the number in question can be fractional?" - i.e. a usage question...

You could be right.

Would it feel more acceptable to you if the question were reworded along the lines of "I have a graph that shows (blahblahblah), and the number might not be a whole number. Should I use amount or number for the label?" If so I'll consider editing it into shape...

Might be. Probably I just misunderstood what he was asking.

OK I've edited it to make it (hopefully) clearer what's actually being asked...

Q: Is the history of h-dropping in English in any way related to the silent h of French?

Hi, guys.

0

I was reading up on Richard the III, and his exploits just now in Wikipedia — as is the nature of Wiki, that further me led to stumble to Stafford, Duke of Buckingham's page, where I learned that one of the motivations he might have had to kill the Princes, Richard III's nephews, was his in...

history linguistics

►

Just skimming that question brought this to mind.

Q: How do you get from the literal meaning of "all bets are off" to the idiom?

1:09 PM

For when he's next around:

@Billare - I have updated my answer to your question

7

Most everyone knows what the common turn of phrase all bets are off means: "anything can happen." But all idioms have to start from somewhere, and the question I'm wondering is how did this one start. Google informs me it comes from a gambling context, and I'm inclined to believe that, having see...

meaning idioms

I have added quite a few more examples, which show (my guess at) the development of the meaning more clearly - enjoy :)

2:54 PM

@BogdanLataianu Hello and welcome.

3:37 PM

Hello, RegDwight,
What does this mean: “I reserve the right to clean up the comments without further notice”? Does it mean that moderators have the right even to clean other people comments? If yes, what’s so bad about lengthy comments in a question? If it’s too many of them they appear hidden first, after all, so only those who are interested in reading them would open them. How do lengthy comments on a question page detract from its quality? I don’t understand.

@brilliant — @RegDwight might not hear you if you don't at-reference him.

@Robusto Hello Robusto! What does it mean "at-reference"?

Put the @ ("at") symbol in front of someone's name. Watch what happens when I "at-reference" you: @brilliant. See? You get a little thump sound.

Aaah! i see. Thank you. Then I'll try again.

Hello, RegDwight,
What does this mean: “I reserve the right to clean up the comments without further notice”? Does it mean that moderators have the right even to clean other people comments? If yes, what’s so bad about lengthy comments in a question? If it’s too many of them they appear hidden first, after all, so only those who are interested in reading them would open them. How do lengthy comments on a question page detract from its quality? I don’t understand.

@Robusto How come "at-reference" didn't happen just now?

Did you delete the link that was already there when you replied to @RegDwight's chat post? I think you did.

@RegDwight — Hello, RegDwight.

See, that looked like ":914375 — Hello, RegDwight."

3:47 PM

Aaaah! I see. Okay I'll try the third time:

@RegDwight Hello, RegDwight,
What does this mean: “I reserve the right to clean up the comments without further notice”? Does it mean that moderators have the right even to clean other people comments? If yes, what’s so bad about lengthy comments in a question? If it’s too many of them they appear hidden first, after all, so only those who are interested in reading them would open them. How do lengthy comments on a question page detract from its quality? I don’t understand.

*other people's comments

@Robusto He doesn't seem to hear me at all :(

4:16 PM

Huh wha?

Yes, mods can delete comments.

Though we prefer to encourage people to do so themselves.

Comments are second-class citizens. Their main purpose is to help improve questions/answers.

Lengthy discussions should be taken to the chat.

The main site is not about comments, it's all about questions and answers.

This is a general policy across all sites of the network.

SE sites are Q&A sites, not discussion forums.

This is why long comment threads get auto-flagged for mod attention by the system.

@RegDwight I see. Another question: You said that my second question “is way better worded”. Honestly, I don’t understand how my wording in the second question is better than in the first one. To me they look quite equal, as far as the quality of wording is concerned. How was the second wording better?

Because a) it wasn't a riddle where you knew the answer all along and b) you described a rather general situation, so it was not too localized. Read my comment again, it really sums it all up.

Look at other questions tagged single-word-requests. Your question fits in there nicely; your previous one didn't.

well, I thought you would tell me something about the wording, in other words about the form, not about the contents

4:31 PM

Mmmmh. Okay, lemme try.

Sometimes you have an idea floating in your head, but you don't know how to express it in a single word. For example, "Is there a word or phrase for the feeling you get after looking at a word for too long?" or "Is there a word to describe a highly desirable cursed treasure?" That would be a single-word-request.

And then there are situations where you already have a few alternatives, but don't know which one to choose. E.g. "Should I use 'less' or 'fewer' here?" or "What is the difference between a square and a plaza?" That would be a word-choice question.

But questions of the form, "here's a quote, I left a few words out of it, what do you think they are?" are not a good fit for either category.

Again, when in doubt, ask in chat. People here are usually eager to help.

but you are still talking about the contents, not about wording. Or, perhaps, I don't get the meaning of the word "wording"?

I though wording was the way you describe your question, regardless of whether it is about one word you don't know, two words you are choosing from or a riddle. NO?

Well, I guess I went with wording there because — and I have mentioned that before — theoretically, that question that got closed could be re-worded to become a proper single-word-request.

Ah. I see. Thank you. Actually I feel a bit sad now, having read these words of yours: " Because a) it wasn't a riddle where you knew the answer all along” – it shows that you didn’t really get my point in asking that question. Why did I ever mention “behavioral patterns” in my question?! I should have been less honest and pretended that I never read them! Once again: That was not a riddle! And “behavioral patterns” was not the answer!

I never cared about whether those who answered would come up with “behavioral patterns” or not. My point was in gathering all their possible different answers and figuring out what was in common between all of them.

Yes, again, that is why I said

yesterday, by RegDwight

Your question could be a single-word request / phrase request at heart.

so that i would know what ideas would pop up in native speakers mind generally in that context

@RegDwight so if I retagged my question it could have stayed "alive"?

4:46 PM

No.

Again, we're talking about wording.

There is no magic tag that would save a question the community deems poorly worded.

No, no, no. I've already stopped talking about the wording.. Right now I am already talking about the contents.

Mkay.

Whether it was a riddle or not is already the content

*the matter of the contents

Well, things are pretty clear now

Glad to hear that.

but allow me to say that I am not glad at all.

within these three days – through communicating not only with you, but also with other users and moderators – I have learned the following:

1. When posting my question, I have to be careful about how I describe it and word it. If it’s worded and described poorly – my question may get closed and I will receive some down votes.

This sounds a bit ridiculous to me as for me, as for a learner of English, it is always quite a big task to find a way of how not only to word or describe my question properly, but even merely find a way how to present it.

I thought that giving a contextual situation was the best way, but now I see that that’s not always going to be the case – I should possess some skills of how to generalize from my particular case to some higher level – I don’t have this skill.

It seems like before asking a question about some small point in English I am already supposed to possess some skills in English, which are even bigger than that point that I am about to ask!

2. Secondly, while posting my question, I need to be concerned about whether or not my question will be applicable for a wider audience and to a wider range of situations.

In other words, if my question is too specific and can only be applicable to my particular situation, then I have no right of asking such question. Well, of course, I can ask it, but rest assured it will be closed, you will get some negative reaction from the community, and, of course, down votes.

Perhaps, I am too selfish here, but when I am asking a question, i am more concerned about my question that other users

I don't really want to bring in any negativity here. It's just what I have learnt within these three days

4:53 PM

Okay.

Well, first of all, both 1. and 2. are actually very accurate descriptions of how SE sites work.

So if you keep those points in mind, you'll be a good contributor.

Secondly, each site of course has a set of its own rules on top of that.

And of course nobody can know them all beforehand.

Often even moderators of site X are not sure if a particular question would be on-topic for site Y.

That's why migration is so tricky.

Maybe I should go to writers.se with all my riddle-looking questions? Or, perhaps, writers would be even “tougher” with me? What do you think?

Well, Writers is more for questions "Here's a paragraph I wrote, how can I improve it?"

So yes, in a way you can use that site to get alternative wordings.

But again, I don't think they would have liked that question about behavioural patterns.

They, too, would have probably asked you to reword it.

Though probably according to a slightly different set of rules.

And again, single-word requests, phrase requests, and word-choice questions are very much welcome on our site.

It's just that, as you say yourself, you "have to be careful about how [you] describe it and word it."

But let me say that's that's nothing to get upset about.

Better worded questions benefit everyone, including yourself.

Yes, I was afraid of that on the regard of writers.se. Well, then maybe I’ll just go back to Yahoo. Answers. There is a big minus there – when you ask a question, you lose 5 points, but you can easily get them back for answering others’ questions – questions like “What do you think about …?” are allowed there.

But at least there are no restrictions on how and what you ask about.

Well, coincidentally, that's the biggest flaw of Yahoo Answers.

Why?

5:05 PM

Anyone can ask anything, and anyone can post any rubbish in response.

The overall quality of that site is abysmal.

That's one of the reasons why StackExchange got created in the first place.

We're trying to get expert answers to quality questions.

But I did get a lot of good answers there on English words usage, except you have to wait there for good answers longer

Well, I'm not saying that you'll never get a single good answer there. What I'm saying is that the overall signal-to-noise ratio is extremely low.

Lots and lots of noise there.

Same with many other sites. I'm not singling out Yahoo Answers.

I see. I think the main point about StackExchange (correct me if I am wrong)

is creating a database of questions so that there would be no repetitevness on the site, no?

I mean, right?

That's the biggest problem on all forums that I've been to

I have never seen any forum being able to cope with that problem

users always tend to ask first before they know they can also search

That is one of our goals, yes. To try to provide a single, authoritative answer to a given question that can be easily found rather than being buried in noise.

@brilliant That is why the SE engine itself is so different from a traditional forum.

On a forum, the discussion is linear.

Someone posts a question, then someone else replies with a joke, then someone else posts a follow-up question or simply a "me too, I also have this problem".

Again, noise.

On a traditional forum, if the most accurate answer gets posted on page 73, it stays on page 73. Forever. On SE, it will bubble to the top.

There are a whole number of mechanisms to ensure that. People can vote for it, the OP can accept it, moderators can delete noise, etc.

Ah, I see. Very interesting. I never thought of that.

5:15 PM

The motto of SE is "try to make the Internet a better place for finding expert answers to your questions". Might sound cheesy at first, but that's what the founders are really after.

They really, really want to make the Internet a better place.

I see. Thank you for all your explanations and it's already over 1:23 am in Taiwan and I need to work tomorrow early in the morning

Oh. didn't realize that. Good night, then!

so I'll go. Good night.

Nice talking to you. Seeya!

word-choice single-word-requests

7:48 PM

0

Q: Secureta word feeling

Hi, what do you think about the security company name Secureta? What do you think, you native speakers, doesn't it sound as a misspelling of Security? Would it work in English? Thanks in advance. James

Subjective right?

Q: What could the word "thumbtick" mean?

I would say so. Also, off-topic.

We are not a free focus group.)))

We've had some questions of similar kind.

One was by vgv8.

5

I am trying to give a piece of software a name but for non-native English speakers it's sometimes hard to avoid awkward associations with names because you don't live with the language. Sometimes word meanings and connotations can be really diverse depending on the context. So, does the word "th...

meaning names connotation

0

Q: estatemachine - positive or negative?

Can you give me please your first thoughts on the term EstateMachine? Is it positive or negative? What can it be? Thanks, Andi

connotation

Damn it... it seems that someone always answers off-topic questions before they get closed.

@Kosmonaut yes, annoying, isn't it?

Q: Can I call me Anti-Anti-SpamBot or how?

-1

Will it be comprehensible to take a nickname calling me Anti-Anti-SpamBot to convey the idea that communication on internet (like commenting in blogs, registration and posting in forums, etc.) became practically impossible without tools facilitating posting, like spam bots?

technical nicknames

@Fx Yes!

7:59 PM

could you please migrate it to answers.onstartups.com?

In fact, looking through vgv8's questions, he has quite a lot of "how does this word I have just invented sound?"

@Fx Um, I think we'd have to ask around first. I have no idea if it would be on-topic there.

Ah, too late. Fair enough.

I figured since they are in beta, they can debate if it is on-topic or not :)

Q: When To Use "'s" At The Ending Of The Word?

Well, then. More work ahead:

0

First, sorry about my English. I would love to know when I need to add 's at the ending of the word. 1) When I meant is, like... He's famous. ...to: he is famous. 2) When it's like possession (don't know is this right word for that) of that word? And... exactly when?? John's book. Dream's...

phrases possessive ending

Should we leave this up as the canonical question or close as dupe?

I think we only have more specific questions, nothing this broad.

@RegDwight Is there even a question?

Well, that's another question.)))

That's why I'm asking.

The current wording is not the best for a canonical question.

8:03 PM

It's also not even all correct: "aliens's ship" is wrong.

Q: What is the correct possessive for nouns ending in s?

Well, might be part of the reason he's asking,

Anyhow, let's see what we've got...

11

What is the possessive of a noun ending in s? The boys' books. ? The boss' car.

grammar possessive

If the question were rewritten a lot to make it clear, and if it got a good answer, then it could become canonical :)

Q: What is the best way to explain how to choose between "its" and "it's"?

6

Probably one of the most frequent grammar mistakes in the English language is: The dog sat on it's mat. Since spelling checkers don't catch it, and it is even logical, since you would correctly write: The dog sat on Fluffy's mat. What is the best way to explain to a learner of English...

word-choice grammar

Wow, Ex-user has renamed himself yet again.

Oh?

I see.

Okay, I left a comment.

Back to watching The Dark Knight.

8:17 PM

Q: Is Answers.OnStartups.com violating copyright?

0

The answers.onstartups.com website copies the design & text in most instances of stackoverflow.com. Is this a copyright violation? For example, compare answers.onstartups.com/badges to stackoverflow.com/badges

discussion

Q: "Far side of the Moon" in less words?

8:44 PM

0

I'm looking for a shorter way of saying "The far side of the Moon" (meaning either literally, or by association that). Preferably in one word. Latin or a non-English word will do to (sadly, no linguistics.stackexchange.com out there).

short-form

If someone answers this with a non-English word, unless that word is widely used (I actually can't think of one), is that going to be desirable?

I'll leave it to you guys to figure out.

'To Floyd-ian boon, you seek to shorten the dark side of the moon, if a portmanteau will do, I suggest posterilune. – BBischof 5 mins ago'

Google brings up a single hit for that word, and it's this question. :/

Did they just make it up? I'm lost...

I just ventured forth with translunar. Feels like what he might be looking for.

@Kosmonaut — Trying to subvert and pervert our children with gay Teletubbies!

@Robusto Nice shot.

Q: When To Use "'s" At The Ending Of The Word?

0

First, sorry about my English. I would love to know when I need to add 's at the ending of the word. 1) When I meant is, like... He's famous. ...to: he is famous. 2) When it's like possession (don't know is this right word for that) of that word? And... exactly when?? John's book. Dream's...

phrases possessive ending

Would it be evil to edit the title and ad an "l" in "Word"?

That could do with a little formatting, maybe.

"When to us 's' at the Ending of the World?"

Because, you know, apocalyptic etiquette must be strictly enforced.

8:58 PM

Like so? SSSssssshhhhiii....

@RegDwight — What, again? Notice that nobody uses LEGO in that whole movie. Not even Batman, and he has all kinds of gadgets — not one of them made of little plastic bricks.

9:18 PM

@Robusto You must be talking about that other Dark Knight. I'm talking about *The Dark Knight: Joker's Ice Cream Surprise*.

Q: (Little) Red Riding Hood - why "Riding"?

Owwwwwlllll!

3

I get the little, the red and the hood... but how does the riding fit in there?

No comment.

Ripperduck got it right: "Betty Boop cartoons prove that out grandparents were on drugs...."

My wife has a Betty Boop T-shirt.

Does she listen to Sam the Sham?

I like when he says Owwwwwlllll!

Q: When To Use "'s" At The Ending Of The Word?

9:22 PM

Not that she's informed me, no.

I feel like now I have to close this question for good:

0

First, sorry about my English. I would love to know when I need to add 's at the ending of the word. 1) When I meant is, like... He's famous. ...to: he is famous. 2) When it's like possession (don't know is this right word for that) of that word? And... exactly when?? John's book. Dream's...

phrases possessive ending

Well, maybe she leads a secret life when she has the earbuds in. You might check her iTunes list.

28 mins ago, by Robusto

Would it be evil to edit the title and ad an "l" in "Word"?

The answer is copied from elsewhere, doesn't address many parts of the question, but has been accepted.

That's a train wreck.

Wow, I dropped a "d" from "add"!

@Robusto We don't use iCrap in our house, sorry.

I would not say "train wreck" in mixed company. Use the milder "cluster f*ck*.

9:26 PM

@RegDwight — You are a big fan of this:

ICarly

iCarly is an American sitcom that focuses on a girl named Carly Shay who creates her own web show called iCarly with her best friends Sam and Freddie. The series was created by Dan Schneider, who also serves as executive producer. It stars Miranda Cosgrove as Carly, Jennette McCurdy as Sam, Nathan Kress as Freddie, Jerry Trainor as Spencer, and Noah Munck as Gibby. The show is taped at Nickelodeon On Sunset in Hollywood, California. The show premiered on Nickelodeon on September 8, 2007. It was originally rated TV-Y7, and later, TV-G. Production of Season 4 began in May 2010 and is cur...

@Robusto how is it mixed company? I am not mixed. Are you mixed?

Don't try to deny it.

@Fx — We are all from different countries. That's mixed enough for me.

@Robusto No, I am not a big fan of that. Unless by "big fan" you mean "not a fan at all".

9:28 PM

@RegDwight — Lies!

Gähn

Anyhow, peoples, I'm serious. Can I drum up support for closing that question as a dupe or a NARQ?

Or maybe they won't let that show be broadcast in your benighted country, because if people saw the splendors of capitalism at their peak, no one would want to stay in the socialist worker's paradise.

@RegDwight —

yesterday, by Robusto

Yeah, but the "Robusto" part is missing.

Look again.

Now the RegDwight part is missing.

Look again.

Also, where's my diamond in the picture??????

9:32 PM

Yeah. But now the "Nuked from Orbit" is missing.

@RegDwight — It fell off in the blast. Nukes, you know.

@Robusto [status-deferred]

We need to add another acronym to our repertoire. From now on we only need to say NFO.

And PFAG.

I don't know that one.

2 days ago, by RegDwight

Pulverized from another galaxy.

9:33 PM

Ah. OK.

Do you pronounce it "pfag" or "p-fag"?

I wonder how I should welcome @AlexanderPavluchenko. Добрый вечер? Goedenavond?

@Robusto It's pronounced almost like π-FAQ, except in a few crucial places. There, it's pronounced a bit differently.

@RegDwight — Feel better now?

Ooooohhhh, precioussssss.

Diamonds are a girl's — er, Communist's best friend.

Though the diamond could use some of the Make My Logo Bigger Cream.

9:43 PM

Spoken like a client.

Everybody wants to be a frickin' art director.

I've had like 15 years worth of training in wanting to be a frickin' art director.

Taking time out for meals?

Only on Wednesdays in leap years.

►

Yeah, that one is funny, gotta love the music.

9:47 PM

And don't give me that whining about 15 years of training. I was a creative director while you were still wetting the bed. Which, if my calculations are correct, was like, last Wednesday?

I'm sure your calculations are 100% correct if you prefix them with fact:.

Fact:

1 min ago, by Robusto

And don't give me that whining about 15 years of training. I was a creative director while you were still wetting the bed. Which, if my calculations are correct, was like, last Wednesday?

Wow, you have some mad skillz in calculus.

Impressive.

As in, the opposite of pressive.

Why don't you sit the f*ck down before I rearrange your face!

►

And now my wife is calling me for dinner. TTYL.

CU

(Oh and s/rearrange/reinvent/.) @Robusto.

And now I'm out, too.

11:07 PM

What accent does G.W. Bush has, Texan or from Connecticut?

Just plain ol' Cowboy, isn't it?

Or, poppycock; of the spoken variety and of which the accent is undefinable.

@MrDisappointment That doesn't help. I have made a bet. :-)

Any bet on Bush is wasted money, he's full of <s>surprises</s> disappointments.

Truly, I bet money, not Bushes.

Bang for buck you'd do better with the latter, perhaps.

11:20 PM

That is not something I bet on. That is something you do, or not.

I don't get it.

Didn't you say "bang for buck"?

Uh huh.

And doesn't the sentence end in "you'd do better with the latter"?

Maybe a little got lost between the lines.

11:26 PM

Well, my previous post said "money, not Bushes."

No crap, you must be a genius...

Therefore, I get that "latter" is referring to "Bushes."

I don't appreciate the somewhat condescending attitude, we both know what we said is logged and most likely still in immediate view.

I am sorry, I don't see lamps around.

I was horsing around, sorry to mess up your precious room and order of chaos.

11:29 PM

It was you who was not understanding what I said, not me.

Mk. All apologies, boss.

The boss is looking for the lamp; when he will return, I will give him your greetings.

the lamp?

The lamp of Aladdin?

I knew he made copies of his lamp! That is why he made money.

But won't the paths to each all be as ominously booby-trapped as the original?

11:36 PM

As long as he gets money for his lamp, I am sure he doesn't care.

Well, for as long as the drugs maintain 'symptoms', I'm sure you don't either. :/

After all, he made money. Do you care if he made money?

No, not at all.

Does that mean you don't feel the symptoms anymore?

Bummer. I guess.

11:45 PM

Does that mean you had a bummer?

In both senses of the word.

So, you had a hallucination and saw a vagrant. It's not the best of all the hallucination, but it is still possible.

Is this psychiatrics.SE? Was sure I came to ELU chat...

It could be a hallucination.

Nah, a couch would have appeared the moment it crossed my mind.