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2:59 PM
What "dealing with" has happened here? There has been minimal communication even setting up the boundaries of what we're allowed to ask for (is it really only the background?) And the rest of the discussion seems routinely ignored. I think perhaps we have very different definitions of "a lot of time". — Mike Miller 2 mins ago
@MikeMiller @MikeMiller to be honest, I am not sure what to respond to that. (I am not even sure whether the comments was addressed to me. But since I am the only person pinged by your comment, perhaps it was.)
To be fair, is there any suggestion from the MO community which has gained at least some non-trivial support?
 
@MartinSleziak It is a direct response to the one or so comments above.
I'm not really proposing anything useful. I am just not inclined to be fair.
 
If I look at top voted recent posts, the highest voted post with some specific suggestion that I see is the one is the suggestion to use three different colors. Where the asnwer was that it is not directly possible.
 
At this point I'd most like to just inject the simple JavaScript some users have worked out.
 
@MikeMiller Well, perhaps then @username could be used in your comment - both to make clearer what you're responding to and to make sure that you reach the author on the comment.
 
What StackExchange thinks is good for the network is and should be completely irrelevant to what is good for MO. In particular, that particular screen element doesn't help MO by being changed.
@MartinSleziak It is not an important comment. I'll leave it be or delete it.
 
3:06 PM
@MikeMiller When you say "inject simple JavaScript", do you mean Federico's Poloni proposal.
 
(In particular, at the level of making something completely clearly MathOverflow... A site with a screen element that differs from the rest of the network completely is a good start.)
 
10
A: Can anybody provide a clear list of design changes that are obligatory, with explanations?

Federico PoloniNo design changes are mandatory, no matter what the SE people say. If we write some Javascript code ourselves, we can make arbitrary customizations to the UI. The MO foundation has an agreement with Stack Exchange that allows us to inject arbitrary javascript in the page, as long as "it does not...

 
Yes. I assume (perhaps I am ignorant here) this is not much more difficult than what Denis Nardin did in a few lines of CSS in another post.
 
I can just repeat what I have already said here.
This can only be done if the moderators are willing to do that.
So far none of the users who are (at least officially) moderators of MathOverflow did not even bother to comment
 
Yeah, I know.
I can only hope that site moderators can parse out and actually work to solve frustration better than the SE staff.
Who knows if it'll happen.
 
3:10 PM
It's not clear whether they are even aware of that suggestion. I have sent an email linking to this post to moderators@mathoverflow.net. Let's hope that somebody actually reads that address.
 
I believe they do, as I have been instructed to write to that before.
 
Let's consider it as a test then. BTW when you wrote there, did you get some reply?
What bothers me a bit is double standards here. People keep complaining that Stack Exchange hasn't done anything about this. At the same time, most people seem to be perfectly fine with the fact that moderators completely ignore those discussions.
In any case, that's not really my business - that's for you (the MathOverflow people) to sort out.
Just to make clear - I have sent the email to moderators@mathoverflow.net only today. (We'll see whether it helps that to get some attention from the mods.)
 
 
1 hour later…
4:27 PM
@MikeMiller In fact, now I see that it might have been me who mentioned that address to you: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/9369/2018/10/26 (Although you can see in the same transcript that Todd Trimble confirms that such email address existed at the time.)
It probably still does - I suppose that my email would have returned undelivered by now.
Ok, so as luck has it, I have received an email from one of the moderators just now. So at least we know the the address mentioned about works.
Although the response will not help with dealing with the Federico Poloni's proposal - the email basically said that this particular moderator does not have time to look into this now for personal reasons.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:39 PM
I am mentioning this here in case somebody knows options other from SEDE - which was mentioned in the older post.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:54 PM
Since I criticized mods quite a bit in my comments here, I'll just add that I am definitely not saying that everything's perfect from Stack Exchange's side. For example, I certainly agree that some things about the process how the design is supposed to get changed are rather unclear.
This does not change the fact that so far the moderators have been dead silent. Maybe it was just because of bad timing. Maybe it's a sign that this issue is not really that important (at least for the mods).
Let's hope that at some point there will be at least clear answer whether the proposal with using specific code submitted by the mods (based on the clause in the agreement) is really an option.
 
@MikeMiller Honestly I think it would be better done with CSS than CSS wrapped in javascript (that is just because most people are used to use custom js scripts, and maybe not to use custom CSS), but YMMV. Anyway, I'd wait until after Christmas, at least. I don't have to tell anyone here that the end of the semester can be a stressful time
@MartinSleziak To be fair, if they say they are busy, I'm willing to believe it. This is a crappy time for this kind of event
 
Yes, I am perfectly fine to that.
 
Also, I am a moderator on another site on the SE network and I could use some instruments to ping them more forcefully, but I don't see what good would that do, beyond irritating them. Let's give them a bit more time
 
But at least one comment on the post with the proposal saying something like "The mods have to discuss this first among themselves, but we cannot get to it right now" (or something similar) would certainly be nice.
@DenisNardin You mean the superping?
 
Well, traditionally they have always erred on the side of writing less rather than more comments, so I'm not too annoyed by that
Also, if they really need to lock horns with SE I understand wanting to wait before doing anything rash
 
7:03 PM
I'm just frustrated and voicing that. Luckily I do not hold a position of authority. :)
 
Yeah, I'm also extremely annoyed. While I'm very sympathetic to the real technical need for a refactoring, SE seems to have taken the occasion to "uniformize" further the look of the network
 
@DenisNardin I wasn't sure from Federico's answer whether or not one could also request the same of CSS changes.
 
Completely needlessly, in my opinion
@MikeMiller It's literally adding a <link> tag to the header rather than a <script> tag. I don't see why one would be fine, and the other would not
Especially since the script would be just adding the <link> tag to the header anyway...
 
Fair enough (I know nothing about this). I would hope that the licensing agreement isn't so strict to initial wording that they wouldn't allow reasonable modifications.
 
I don't know if you're aware, but there's been a fair amount of pushback elsewhere on the network too about the design changes
tex.SE in particular were furious
 
7:11 PM
I wasn't aware, I mostly stick to MSE and MO. But I am not surprised (this is not the only recent debacle in which the SE staff have done major things with no consultation). MO feels like a somewhat different case given the fact that it is, in principle, its "own thing" (I am being careful not to say things like "not on the SE network" since I don't know what technical terms are right here).
 
I see that several answers not contain tag in the discussion on meta.TeX.SE Denis Nardin linked to. So it seems that some stuff gets changed based on the input from the site's users.
 
Some stuff does get changed, that much is true. I just do not consider any of that stuff very important, but my design perception might be different than a majority of the users
But I'm starting to sound like a broken record, so I'll stop
 

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