last day (2184 days later) » 
03:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

3:02 AM
Welcome to chat for: MathOverflow
This is a general discussion room, but please feel free to create more subject-specific rooms (a single room with every possible discussion isn't very helpful)
For playing with chat features:


Where you can play with chat features (except flagging) and ch...
and remember; please read the FAQ ;p)
So, this is the chat room for people from Mathoverflow.
3:35 AM
What's with the two users, Anton?
I don't know. When I tried to log in, it created a new account rather than logging me into my old one
I emailed the SE team about it
but it doesn't seem like most people have this problem
it might be because I tried to log into meta first, rather than the main site
I see. Interesting. Does the network have different OpenID support than the old MO?
I'm pretty sure both SE and MO used my gmail openID. On MO, I also had a myopenID as an alternate, but login with myopenID doesn't seem to work on the new site
I'm logged in with myopenID.
3:41 AM
maybe I'm just good at breaking things
ah, it looks like is just down right now
I lose nearly half of my reputations!
It seems that the score of question changed from 10 to 5
So now mathoverflow is a subsite of Stackexchange?
Here's an MO-relevant bug report on MSO. Probably will get solved quickly though.
Looks like a feature to me.
@Yuchen: yes, it's now a site on the Stack Exchange network.
It looks like I'm me again!
But my MO account doesn't appear in my all site account, why is that?
3:50 AM
Mine isn't showing up there either.
It could be that info is recalculated periodically
4:08 AM
Just so you know, MSE has kept a single chat room going for over 1000 days, it helps to give the name of the person being addressed as all conversations weave through each other. Transcript
@WillJagy Duly noted.
@WillJagy Ah, you have to click a reply button to get the little arrow.
@EvanJenkins, actually, having extra chat rooms might accomplish one thing I never got people on MO to do, which is to take a discussion offsite just involving the two or three people with ongoing interest. Nobody ever wanted to do that with email, partly because everyone wanted transparency, but single-mathematics-topic chat rooms give a way to proceed that people might be willing to do.
@WillJagy Interesting idea, although I can't say I'm a huge fan of the interface.
@EvanJenkins, right. For MSE, there is little reason to consider a discussion over days.
@AntonGeraschenko, before i forget, there is a separate item called ChatJax which allows one to see Latex, or at least MathJax, on Chat for MSE. TRIAL: $5 x^2 + 7 y^2$
That worked!!!!! Same trick as chat on MSE, just call up a certain webpage which enables ChatJax, until contact with Chat is broken in some way. Needs to be redone each time.
Alright, if we do not have a separate MO ChatJax install, this worked:
and follow directions.
@WillJagy How do I get ChatJax? I don't see in LaTeX the math expression you wrote.
4:22 AM
Same here. I see dollar signs and plain text.
Follow the directions at @WillJagy's link.
You use a little JS bookmarklet to activate it.
@JoelReyesNoche, for now go to the ucla link in my previous post . I forget the details, you save each piece as bookmarks, then call up the "start chatjax" web link
$\begin{pmatrix}1 & 2\\ 3 & 4\end{pmatrix}$
@AntonGeraschenko, see the ucla link from me, two posts ago. On MSE chat, there is a sort of permanent set of items/posts on the right, which is currently blank gray. This link is always there.
It's working now. I right-clicked on the "start ChatJax" text, made it a bookmark, then went back to this tab, clicked on dropdown menu for bookmarks, then selected "start ChatJax"
4:26 AM
@Anton, note that I just starred Evan's matrix post. Starred messages go on the right. Somehow they figured out how to make a "sticky" starred message thre, for this purpose.
@WillJagy: thanks. It works. I guess I was getting too impatient to read all the way through your comment
@AntonGeraschenko At least you're more patient than that user35287 fellow.
Is there a way to remove the star?
@Anton, note that I have no idea how to make a sticky starred message. People have starred my sub-message with the link.
4:29 AM
@WillJagy One of them was me. Just mouse over the message you want to star, then choose the star icon at the bottom right of the message.
@JoelReyesNoche, I have never been very clear on the stars. There are also flags, so MSE gets these flag wars, and people get suspended from the main site. i do not know how to cancel a star, and I have no clear idea what is up with the flags.
But note that the stars do get pushed back as new messages go to the top of the list.
@AntonGeraschenko, you may remember how I used to encourage people to expand their MO discussions by email. That never worked. But these chatrooms, created at need and using chatjax, allows for such side discussions while keeping transparency. People seemed to dislike the privacy inherent in the email idea.
@WillJagy It's only now that I understand what you meant. Yes, it seems that you can't star your own messages.
@AntonGeraschenko, Mariano says that ... he is here
a mod has to pin the starred item
hoverign on Will's starred entry, a black triangle shows up
ah, I have mod powers in this chat room too
there you go
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez, you're a rock star.
4:43 AM
we should ask the artists to remove the tags and badges from the frontpage
@Mariano, it showed me my last few badges, most of them relate to grave-robbing
since they seem to be re-awarding badges, no useful information will be there in a long while :D
From above, you may remember how I used to encourage people to expand their MO discussions by email. That never worked. But these chatrooms, created at need and using chatjax, allows for such side discussions while keeping transparency. People seemed to dislike the privacy inherent in the email idea. Never really worked with MSE people
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez, QUID could open a chat room with someone and bloviate forever!!!
As long as commutative diagrams are not needed, genuine mathematical discussions could happen. I'm a little excited.
4:50 AM
Hi, just trying out our new chat room.
@ScottMorrison, $x^2 + y^2 + z^9$
@Will, maybe we should rephrase your starred mathjax thingie so that it is more obvious
Hi @Will, remind me how to enable ChatJax?
@ScottMorrison, see the first starred item on the right column
To get MathJax (LaTeX) working in this chatroom, follow these instructions.
@ScottMorrison, if it does not make sense, also see the second starred item.
4:53 AM
Ah, I'm using the mobile interface (because my son wants me to sit outside his bedroom door while he falls asleep), so I don't have such a column right now.
I never tried that, so can't help
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez, whatever phrasing you would like. If you type something here, I can repeat it, then you can pin it. If it is really complicated email me.
Maybe if the following link works when clicked...

ah, it's way too long
I'm not sure i have javascript
Presumably JavaScript URLs are not clickable as a safety measure.
4:56 AM
@ScottMorrison, in any case, the smartbookmarks are here
I see, you changed the sticky item.
My old account seems to have been destroyed; I can't even find it through the users link. Is there anything I can do about that?
There are people on who cannot seem to log on. One of those things.
Okay, Scott is there with some watercress sandwiches
Also Anton.
Speaking of tea, @WillJagy, you've sparked my interest in Pu-erh. I'm going to try some in my next tea purchase.
Do you have any recommendations?
@EricTressler: please post a bug on meta. The SE staff can probably figure out what went wrong.
5:12 AM
@EvanJenkins, both places I use in Berkeley have mail order, let me… and I get the regular (loose) at Far Leaves.
Plus I pour hot water twice for these, once in the morning, save the pot and more hot water in the evening
$ 27 y^{10} - 32 z^3 + d$ Hum de hum de hum
@AntonGeraschenko: I can't post on meta, because now I have 1 reputation on MO. Maybe they should lift that restriction for a week or two.
My account seems to have been recovered. But I still can't post on meta, even though my reputation is supposedly back over 10000.
5:31 AM
@CharlesRezk, Anton and Scott are pretty busy. In this format, it is best to put an at sign and target one person (who need not be in the chat room at the time) as messages accumulate rapidly. But I suspect some things will not get fixed tonight.
@Will, I've already reported my issue to SE admins. I'm just here to gripe aimlessly.
@Charles, in that case, carry on.
I'm impressed they got anything at all working in a few hours downtime
I just put a feature request post up asking for no reputation requirements on meta for the first week:…
@EricTressler I'll look; what can you tell me about the old account?
@Scott, thanks.
5:37 AM
@ScottMorrison, I starred that so it would show up on the right (were you on a mobile???) Mariano knows how to make it stay in place
Eric Tressler, California
686 7 14
is that you, @EricTressler? ^^^
Which is odd, since I had 909 reputation
I mean, the other you?
5:37 AM
Yes, it is
but the rep. is wrong. But that's okay
I think it's also missing my most recent question in the history
upvotes on questions were worth 10rep on SE 1.0, but these days it's only 5, so I would expect it to have dropped
@EricTressler I've merged the accounts; you have you questions and answers back
Thanks a lot
not a problem
@WillJagy ah, the long, dark teatime of the soul ...
5:48 AM
@CharlesRezk, exactly. One of the Jeeves and Wooster books by Wodehouse plays on that. Bertie tries to get two girls to argue by depriving them of lunch. It fails. Jeeves points out that it is actually teatime that is important in the category of times to starve.
@WillJagy That's not a lost soul, that's a rant. I assume you have an account on; can you tell him to log in in whatever way he wants/feels comfortable with. We can merge the accounts.
@balpha, yes. I agree about the rant part.
Left a short message to that effect.
6:04 AM
@balpha Coul you please merge me with ? I wrote an email, but if this can be done in a less complicated way, I would appreciate it.
@MichaelGreinecker done
@balpha Thank you very much!
1 hour later…
7:36 AM
@WillJagy Where did you find that link? I was wondering what happened to the old Meta..
Willie, it was posted on Tea before it became Tea.
Because tea is for discussions.
(Although I would have preferred the anagram "meat" instead... it's tastier!)
@AsafKaragila Which makes it all that more useful for someone who didn't check Tea in the few hours between posting and migration.
I was hoping for a link somewhere in our new FAQ and such.
That would have been nice I suppose.
But there's a post on the new meta with the link.
But on second thought, maybe it is good not to have the link too prominently displayed, so as not to confuse the newer users.
Q: Where's the old meta?

user35287Where's the old

7:40 AM
oh hey, I didn't notice that...
So, is there going to be an outgoing migration path from MSE to MO, or are we keeping this at a user request level only?
No, there won't be outgoing migration path to MO.
Alrighty then.
I should also mention that I've become quite the fan of the Glen Livet Nadurra.
I vaguely remember there being a discussion on in the migration thread where many people were against allowing the "masses" to migrate stuff to MO.
I expect that the MSE -> MO migration to be rare enough that we can handle it by moderator requests. The reverse migration route probably should just be open for convenience.
It is open.
@Willie: Can you confirm my bug report here?
7:46 AM
Heh, there has been no migrations so far.
ok. Good chatting. Need to get back to cleaning out my open browser tabs (I have like 70 tabs open... that is unhealthy.)
@Willie: I just read the entire minimumble archive yesterday, and there were several jokes about that sort of situation.
@Willie: In particular this one.
Test $\frac{a}{b}$
@Asaf ChatJAx works for me.
That's good.
@Asaf I think I misinterpreted your meta post. Silly me.
Which one? I made like three or four of them in the past two hours...
(I'm really trying hard to procrastinate work, as you can plainly see...)
8:01 AM
@Asaf The one about MathJAx support. I think you've become so efficient at your procrastination activities that they do not work for procrastination anymore...
@Michael: Then why do I have to grade a semester-worth of homework assignments, and I have to finish those in two weeks, and I haven't started yet? :-(
@Asfaf So you are efiicient after all. But this is something everyone tries to avoid. What course?
Mathematical logic 2.
Could be worse I guees. Calculus for buisness students or something like that.
have anyone experience about Matlab?
8:05 AM
Yeah, that what I TA'd in BGU, but I didn't have to grade homework papers there (nor I had to write them, thank goodness).
Matlab? Isn't that the software that physicists and engineers use?
i am looking for an online compiler for Matlab if any one is aware about it ,
This software is used for complex matrices calculations usually
Why would a chatroom for a mathematician's website have people that know how software that physicists and engineers use?
it is related to maths
So does balancing your checkbook.
Or, you know, deciding whether or not you want to buy a book from Amazon or Book Depository.
And to some extent, Kantian (and other) philosophy.
Grabs popcorn...
8:19 AM
@AsafKaragila Revised estimate: > 130 tabs open. Around 35 or so to MathScinet, 40 or so to arXiv, another 30 or so to various journal articles (mostly JSTOR). And a bunch more to Terry's blog. That's after I closed around 20 tabs just now (if I haven't read them yet, I probably wont read them at all.)
@WillieWong Yikes. That sounds a lot.
That's the problem of having a fast computer, I guess. On my laptop I would not keep more than 30 open at a time, because firefox just slows to a crawl. My desktop however is just too responsive for its own good.
What sort of system do you have there?
Debian Sid running on quadcore Xeon, 3.1Ghz
Ah. That's good stuff.
What sort of Xeon?
8:25 AM
8G ram
I don't even know why I bother having swap on this system...
Heh. Very nice.
I wonder when I'll buy a new machine... or at least more RAM...
@AsafKaragila Aren't you starting a new place soon?
Wait until you get there. Some people may have money to spend. Either that person's your advisor or one of his friends, or that person is the person two offices over whose trash pile you subsequently raid.
I have started in Jerusalem, but I still live in Beer Sheva, and regardless to that I would still use my machine...
I suppose that the next machine would be a strong laptop for when I'll move abroad at one point or another.
Good thinking.
My philosophy has evolved to the point that for a Laptop, you either just get a Desktop-In-Disguise, or something extremely light for ease of traveling (I am perfectly willing to sacrifice processing power for that). Anything in the middle will not do. (You try for a compromise and end up screwing up both ends.)
I have my hybrid tablet for travel.
8:31 AM
If you want to keep running Linux .... is helpful
Well, there's still a long time before I'll buy that laptop, so I don't worry about that right now.
Okiedokie. Back to work.
(Exam planning.. blegh)
I have to do that tomorrow... but not alone.
Hi @AsafKaragila how are you?
1 hour later…
9:43 AM
1 hour later…
10:56 AM
Hello folks!
@JoelReyesNoche Which one? Anyone can remove a star they've placed, but moderators (like me) and room owners can clear stars
Mathoverflow got a chat now ?
@DominicMichaelis Yep
Just like all other SE 2.0 sites
The chat may need retheming though
Ping me if you need help using chat
I just hope the real mathematicians don't flee because of the guys asking homework questions in chat
11:11 AM
@DominicMichaelis Oh, you can ban tht from the topic
Most SE chatrooms have a topic
You can discuss it on meta or in chat
@AsafKaragila nice to see you in chat
If, for example, a user comes long and posts an HW question, you can just tell them that "we don't discuss that here"
If he persists, you can get him kicked
(You guys may want to appoint room owners and decide a if HW is allowed, etc etc. I can do that but I don't know enough to determine which users should be promoted to owner)
can several guys own a room ?
@DominicMichaelis yep
Room owners have the ability to kick, schedule events, set feeds, control access
oh that is nice :)
11:14 AM
@Dominic: Don't get used to it, I only joined in for a few hours today. To see if there are any migration related topics that can be hammered out over chat. I'll soon be gone from the chat again.
sorry, they can't delete stuff
@ManishEarth They do? I don't recall having that ability when I was owner of the MSE chatroom.
@AsafKaragila May I ask why you left chat ?
@AsafKaragila Yeah, I got confused :P Moderators can delete and move
@ManishEarth I was talking about kicking, actually.
11:15 AM
@DominicMichaelis You may. I won't answer, though.
But kicking is only temporary
@ManishEarth can you remove a room owner ?
@DominicMichaelis As a moderator on Physics and Chemistry, I have chat moderator powers too.
Anton et all will too
11:58 AM
@ManishEarth Thanks! But it seems that the ability to remove a star that I placed expires after some time.
@JoelReyesNoche which star?
I can still do it
@ManishEarth Sorry if I wasn't clear. I really don't want to remove any stars, I was just asking because I wanted to be familiar with how the system works. Thanks.
@JoelReyesNoche Anyway, ping me if you need any clarification on any SE 2.0 feature :)
@ManishEarth Thanks! I'm leaving chat for now.
@AsafKaragila @AntonGeraschenko Just throwing it out there, do you think MO would be able to support a blog? It seems to have a pretty good community, and is well known. A math blog by MO would be awesome.
@JoelReyesNoche Sure, cya :)
1 hour later…
1:13 PM
Test $\frac{a}{b}$
no mathjax in chat, use the bookmarklet
1:59 PM
Q: Closing changes: [on hold], unclear, too broad, opinion-based, off-topic reasons, bye-bye to Too Localized

JaydlesAfter a ton of discussion, work and input from the community, we're rolling out the remainder of major closing changes that you've helped us design, as discussed in these prior posts. They're live on Meta today, and will likely roll out to the rest of the network sometime next week. The clos...

Just fyi, those changes might be rolled out in the next six-to-eight weeks network wide
Thanks for the info.
2:14 PM
2:29 PM
Does anyone know what the "association bonus" is? I just got +100 reputation out of nowhere.
@Adeel You get it if you have enogh rep on another account. The idea is that you have leanred about basic rules of the network already and can therefore be granted more powers.
Ah ok, thanks.
@ManishEarth even though this is not really chat related. I got 100 points association bonus but lost 25 points for upvotes on a question (because on mathoverflow you earned 10 reputation for an upvote on a question
@DominicMichaelis ok...
2:34 PM
@ManishEarth so in fact I guess many persons lost reputation by the change is this intended ?
@DominicMichaelis yep
@ManishEarth the color of pings are awful :D
With any luck, you'll get a chat skin soon
the current one is a hybrid of the beta theme and the MO icon
You may want to start a meta post on that
A question just that I wish a new theme or a question asking for what is the word ... whether someone knows a got theme ?
@DominicMichaelis Mention that MO chat needs a theme
Jin may get to work on it, however ask the community to design their own
For example, check out the RPG theme:
It reflects the main site theme
3:06 PM
Oh I just notice I am able to edit now
3:16 PM
@DominicMichaelis You couldn't before?
I wasn't able before MO didn't belong to SO. Maybe a problem of reputation
@DominicMichaelis I think the situation is:
In the past, you couldn't edit at all.
Now, there's a suggested edits feature for <2k users
oh ok
I found it more surprising that 80 % of the MO questions actually do have an answer than that the site ist 2012 years old
Q: Age of Mathoverlow

Michael GreineckerAs was pointed out here, Mathoverflow is listed as being 2012 years old here.

Test: $3\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{1-\frac{1}{36n^{2}}$
3:31 PM
@FredKline Learn your latex :P
(you had missed close-brace at the end, and ideally you should use \limits for sum and integral limits)
use double dollars for block-level math
$$ ... $$
2 hours later…
5:44 PM
@WillieWong, I think you know by now, but I looked for on Giggle, when that didn't work I put it in the browser url line after an http:// and it worked. So, old Meta is
and login uses old password, which I had almost entirely forgotten
5:59 PM
@EvanJenkins, id you notice the links to tea shops?
Peets and Far Leaves...
@WillJagy Yes I did, thanks. I'll check them out.
6:29 PM
Hi @Evan
1 hour later…
7:54 PM
Chat overflow
so why am I not logged in properly
8:06 PM
the obsessive compulsive in me is wildly affected by the fact that the numbers in the notification thingie on the north west corner are not centered in their red circle :-/
sup this is harry
why'd you have to put me through the wringer like that =(
You should know better, Harry
I don't know when the prudes took over meta. I use a lot stronger langugage in class...
oh also, I interviewed for a fellowship
saying prudes and what not is not helping any cause
I'm waiting to hear back this week
8:09 PM
this is a professional site
if you come into a seminar with that tone and language, thge response would not be different
uh, that's not true at all
I went to a seminar and used that exact language frequently
the MWTS
I would personally kick you out of any seminar I attend
Just for using the extended form of 'bs'?
and the geenral tone of your post
oh, I wouldn't get all upset like that at a conference
8:11 PM
To be honest, when I read the meta post I considered the possibility thatsomeone had hacked your account
and was trying to get you banned
because I, by now, assumed you had learned to behave
yeah but I'm really bored
my air conditioning stopped working so I'm at the library
This is a professional forum, Harry
sure, but do you remember when what's his name came on
and started talking about a 'gentle f'
on meta
because he had used the term 'f'-ing brilliant
and someone got all mad
If I were at my computer, I still have it saved somewhere from before it got deleted
anyway, idk why everyone gets so sensitive all the time
Also, why isn't my chat account linked with my main account?
Ohhhh this is a stackexchange account
@HarryGindi I just fixed it up for you. Chat went out of sync for a bit there. You might have to refresh this page to see the fixed association.
Thanks buddy
@AnnaLear, I thought that MO had stipulated there would not be association bonuses
from other SE sites
specifically to avoid MO being overrun by idiots and other undesirables
8:24 PM
@HarryGindi I don't know anything about that, sorry. For what it's worth, I'm yet to see a site overrun by anybody because of the association bonus.
@AnnaLear, As far as I understand, MO stipulated in its agreement with SE during the transition that association bonuses would be totally disabled for this site
I could link you to the meta topic
Given the patterns on MSE and the fact that MO really does close poor questions, it is more likely that this chat gets overrun. That may or may not turn out to matter to anyone. I starred some comments about that, visible on the right (for now) and copied to a post on new Meta.
@Will hey there!
Helo, Harry
I just flew to france to interview for a phd program
I was gone for the past while because I had to finish gen. ed requirements =(
anyway, I hope that I get good news this week so I can change my MO profile from 'fifth year undergrad' to 'first year grad' like a champ =o
8:30 PM
I see. You seemed awfully upset about, but you had little recent activity there, and none on MO Main since last September
Yeah, but that's because I literally finished my last class as an undergrad about an hour ago
and I was planning on making a triumphant return like napoleon
Napoleon got exiled
yeah, but my point was more that I was going to lead my army to its demise within 100 days
against the duke of wellington
and then die of stomach cancer at some point in the future
@HarryGindi It was discussed and shelved for review later on to see if it was an issue in practice.
@WillJagy you can always create another room if you need to
8:36 PM
@AnnaLear, alright, but that seems extremely unwise
but I guess I'll have to talk to anton about it
@Shog9, yes, that is an interesting prospect, that may or may not matter to anyone but me...I always tried to get people on MO to extend the discussion of meaty math problems to email among two or three interested parties, maybe eventually publish together. Nobody ever did. But here, with chat rooms and MathJax available there, it might work. I will work on a new Meta post about that idea, little too early at this point.
@WillJagy heh
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez, hi, figuring out uses and problems of Chat for MO. Plenty of time
@WillJagy something you may or may not have run into yet (depending on how chatty you are) is a feature on the main site that will automatically create a link into a post-specific chatroom if a back-and-forth comment conversation grows too long. It'll even drag in the comments.
@WillJagy Keep in mind that chat messages have the same content licensing as the rest of the site. I know virtually nothing about academic publishing, so I'm not sure if this would be an issue, but just something to be aware of either way when discussing things in public.
8:40 PM
I am going to upload this entire chatlog to the ArXiv without citing any of you.
Who are you?
@Shog9, yes, it tries to make a chatroom if a discussion between just two people in comments goes too long. I also noticed, if already in Chat, I can click on their icon (gravatar?0 on the left and create a pairwise chatroom...
What do you mean, my name is right there.
Yeah, but it says you're from math.SE
@WillJagy yup
8:42 PM
I clicked the chat button at the top of MO.
Who knows what that does.
wait so you know thermo?
I looked at your website
it says you blog on chromotopy
chromotopy is run by eric peterson
eric peterson is thermo
8:45 PM
@AnnaLear, I don't see that as an issue. People already put preprints on the arXiv, and publish with just ordinary citations to MO answers. Some of the comments against people "going private" with MO problems was exactly the lack of transparency, other MO people would not get to see the development. But these chatrooms are publically viewable. i think that would appeal to the Skip Garibaldi's of the world.
Yes, well, he's a friend of mine, so.
Right, I was asking if you know thermo =p
@WillJagy Sounds good to me. :)
or rather, confirming it
anyway, if you know thermo, you're good by me
@AnnaLear, now it is a matter of suggesting that to people. Which is the sort of thing i stopped doing, years ago on MO...but perhaps a new Meta post after a week or two.
8:47 PM
Hey Will the new meta sucks
@Harry, so you said. Give Scott and Anton some time. And, give yourself time to figure out how this new setup may be useful for you. I should think will not entirely die out, just as algebraic geometry has not entirely taken over MO. Stable patterns according to a pagerank type process.
@Will, you may have forgotten about how I got myself banned from math.SE
because I made such a massive fuss over how crappy the meta was
I gave it an honest shot
9:02 PM
@Harry, MSE did not matter for your career. MO actually does.
Actually, surprisingly enough, I don't think that they read the MO meta pages at universities in countries that don't speak english
I was thinking of Qiaochu's post, december 11 . But you also get to interpret his point as you like.
I'm suspended for a week
9:29 PM
MO can't suspend me from chat
03:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

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